Revert AFK crows to what they where pre last year.
eg Jason having counter play for being seen that is only done by crouching, No other killer has this issues as all other killers have some sort of visual or audio ques when nearby.
So because of Jason please revert AFK crows. if we want killers to be doing long drawn out matches the survivors cannot be punished by getting crows. its not logical game design if this is truly how we want Jason games to go.
Comments
…Wouldn’t it make more sense to adjust Jason, then?
I agree but if that's the path they don't want to go (many people seem to not wanna touch Jason) , then changes to game are needed, crows being one.
Gosh I hope not. I really don’t need Jason to be the standard moving forward.
In the end you can do gens while he is in his power. He will eventually come out and chase one of you guys. So why waste the time not sitting on the gen. I for example have stopped caring if he is in his power when I am on a gen. The gen progress is way more imporant that hiding from him. Just keep track of the spots he can appear from and if the map has grass and it moves just start moving away of any possible spot for him to appear from. Play the enviroment against him but hiding when doing a gen is pointless as he will either come out to check the gen anyway or you will just waste time sitting in a corner waiting him to comeout.
I have said it would be good to him not see anyone doing objectives but have to wait what the changes are going to be.
Jason is just too strong for these situations - I had a match on Coldwind, the last generators were on opposite sides of the map and he just slugged my teammate and went continually back and forth to the generators and the slug. Due to the 3 second delay in the survivors' crouch counterplay, I was eventually found after he dragged the match on for an extra 10 mins (having dribbled the teammate to prevent bleedout). There has to be a balance so that you can still make some progress and are not just forced to give up.
Deputy's Badge also makes this situation worse as he can continually regress the generators without having to leave super-speed invisible mode.
This I've been rolling jason in most my solo q matches. I play aggressively when im supposed to and then crouch and don't get seen when is a good idea like right after coming off hook.
Even if the jason player wasn't so good he's so op and brain dead I should be getting rolled right?
Did you report this? I don't think standing people back up over and over to drag out the match is allowed.
I would accept that counter play to be honest if he could not see objectives like you said, but would also add no deputy badge so if he wants to pressure a gen he is forced to leave OE.
ill be aggressive and not just crouch, But a good Jason is not going to chase you or come out of OE anywhere near you until you are near the area they want to come out of OE in, they know that if you not near the prime gens no point in coming out of OE to chase you. so my logic is if Jason can just sit in OE forever, survivors SHOULD be able to do the same with crouching, why is one side allowed to stall the game but other side gets AFK crows if they do .
This sorta situations is eactactly why AFK crows need to be removed if they don't wanna change jason.
match that made me post was drawn out for ages because Jason refused to do hatch play, he would rather bleed my team mate out till last second
Any other Killer you have visual or audio ques that they are nearby, (eg wraith you can see cloaked and hear suitable noise ques even before he starts to uncloak). Jason only has one map specific visual que.
Don't worry Jason will get nerfed by or before Halloween. This is a pattern for BHVR. They often launch characters or their perks, especially licensed ones, in overtuned states so they sell DLCs only to nerf them later. I first noticed it when they launched Ashley Williams in a survivor-only chapter and Mettle of Man only took 3 normal hits, not protection hits, to activate.
Crazy how basic stategy is down voted. Have we devolved into hiding in corners?
It's because the strategy is diminished so much against the toolkit of Jason that it is no longer a viable one. I really think the "footsteps" are a joke, since they just supersede scratch marks, appear when walking - and therefore ignore any and all perks on the survivor side that hide or modify scratch marks/tracking. And the "red mist" is Aura that cannot be suppressed, not even in a locker.
Surely nobody is crouching enough in a Jason match to actually be getting crows?
You don't crouch all the time, you only crouch if you need to avoid him finding you at that moment. If you're in a solid position and the gen you're doing isn't as important comparatively, you wouldn't even bother letting go of that gen at all, just let him see you.
I think some people have got it in their heads the only way to counter Jason is to make sure he never sees you at all, but that's not really how it works. You CAN make sure he doesn't see you, IF you need the heat to be on someone else (injured on death hook, doing an important central gen, etc).
I've gotten crows before once in a Jason match, and saw a thread with another member also complain about getting crows with Jason before event.
My point in post is Jason can drag out the game using OE, survivors should be able to do that same to him with crouching / trying to bait in away from gens rather then basically being forced into areas he wants while you have no visual or audio ques that he is nearby. Its not that you have to crouch, its that you are FORCED to be seen, weather that is by you working on his prime gens or totems giving him red mist or getting crows because you are crouching/ trying to bait him away from his prime area.
I understand other killers can do this but every other killers has visual or audio ques that they are nearby, (used wraith as example in previous comment) Jason does not while using OE, If he had any visual or audio que as he was moving around in OE (other then map specific stuff like grass) OR a longer cooldown on being able to use OE again would not be a issue. (or even not being able to see you do objectives as a previous comment mentioned)
Even if we compare to other killers who are good at holding prime areas, the survivors are still able to track their location though visuals or audio that they are nearby.
It's not as though his presence isn't telegraphed at all, though. You can't see if he's just hovering around looking at your mist, but you can see (and hear) when he decides to actually target you because the Jumpscare takes enough time for you to start making distance before he's even fully manifested.
That's pretty in line with a killer like Wraith depending on how far you are from where he'd teleport to, and that just means how close vault spots are would be one of the variables for whether you'd crouch or not. There's a corner gen in a hallway on Hawkins for example where Jason just gets a hit for free, so you don't want to let him see you there if you can help it, but if you're in a safer gen then you don't really need to care as much.
That's why crows shouldn't be an issue, you're not just arbitrarily crouching because he's in Omnipresent Evil, you should be crouching as a tactical decision to deny him information in certain circumstances. Jason has issues but I truly don't see this as one of them, if a match is being dragged out by OE it's because everyone's crouching unnecessarily, not because of what the killer is doing.
It's nothing like Wraith who you can both hear and see much more easily, and has a clear audio cue and uncloak time. Jason could appear from perhaps 2 or 3 locations nearby, appears almost instantly and has a very fast movement speed when appearing, and a projectile.
No... people are infact crouching until they get crows. Jason is gonna get nerfed because he beats players who won't work un gens if they suspect they could get chased next.
but wraith can literally be right on you. jason is a bit more limited and if there is grass around its a hint and if i think hes on me the second i hear the very start of the notification prior to the actual notification im on the move and youll be farther away than wraith would be on a smart uncloak especially as wraith can literally body block you
The Key diffrence tho is Wraith has Visual and audio ques while cloaked.
Take nostromo for example. I can see wraith coming from pretty far away on most gens, if im paying attention to surroundings, he even has subtle audio ques if he is coming around the corner.
Jason dont have that, he can be tracking you and you have no Idea if hes acutally nearby or somewhere else. That at least my issue with it the zero tracking it gives to surviours for how much he can use it.
I was getting crows against him. I don't really see why a killer should force you into broadcasting your location. Why can't survivors stealth but this stealth killer can stay hidden for as long as he wants?
the game doesnt know the difference between the intention of progressing the game or hiding because you need to
If your getting crow's that's on you. The easiest counter play to jason is not giving him a chase but that's also the worse counter play because your playing right into his hands. You can chose who where and when the chase happens as a survivor.
Stop hiding and pick a good spot and take chase and learn the real counters to Jason there's alot of spots he can't hit at.
BTW his haste does need to be cut down to 3-5 seconds
To be fair, every other killer save for Spirit and Dracula can just visually see you while you're on those generators. The difference between Jason and the others isn't that he can force you to broadcast your location, it's that you can actually hide yourself from him.
The Omnipresent Evil info structure is one of the cooler parts of his kit to me, it gives you a more potent ability to choose when you take chase compared to other killers. Some parts could be tweaked, for sure, but the mist on generators really isn't one of his problems imo.
How long ago was this narrative invented that when an OP killer comes out it's somehow the survivors' fault?
P.S. They nerfed/fixed Deputy's Badge so that should help a little now
They reduced the range from 4 to 2, which in practice makes no change. The extra hits if you passed by thing is actually something I appreciate since I kept accidentally wasting gen regression events walking past.
I don't find that at all. People make it out that Jason is able to see and hear across maps and can be everywhere at once. Such foolish nihilism.
OE isn't comparable to anything else in the game. Sure, killers can see without an ability with just their eyes, but survivors can see them too. You can also just choose the right time to not be findable by utilizing other information, or perks. The only killer you can't deny your location from is Legion. But you can't deny a killer the information if you have zero ways to know where he is. If Jason gets all this free info their should be a visual that shows his presence.
The only things even slightly comparable to OE are Draculas'a bats and Henry's Undergate. But both make a lot noise, both are visible, neither get KI. Pretty sure everyone just waits for Dracula to fly by before getting on a gen. Henry is wrecked by prerunnng when he performs his very slow and obvious ascension from the ground. He also has a proper cooldown on his traversal ability and gets no free haste despite also being a 4.4.
I honestly don't know how you can view this as cool. He's power crept every teleporting and traversal killer and gets an absurd amount of info just for existing.
I feel like stripping some of the info would make sense if he got other ways to detect survivors. As it stands, he cant see or hear them. The tracking methods Spirit and Dracula have are completely absent here. Theres no sounds of breathing, grunts of pain, footsteps, ect.
Stop hiding and pick a good spot and take chase and learn the real counters to Jason there's alot of spots he can't hit atRaised the issue in previous comment but good Jason players simply wont chase if you are not exactly around where they want you. You cant force someone to chase you when you cant see or hear them nearby but they can see you just fine...unless you are crouching to avoid red mist.
At least with other killers you can see them leaving you for other gens. Jason surviours get no tracking.
Part of my reasoning here is that he doesn't get as much information as some people are implying, because it seems like some people are acting like he has the red mist and footsteps as an increase on the info he has available and not a decrease.
He still can't see or hear survivors directly, which is a downgrade from just walking around normally and a downgrade from other "survivors are invisible" powers, and he's one of very few killers where you can be completely invisible and impossible to trace without prior knowledge of where you were when he entered his power.
There is a back and forth here - he's better at detecting people through floors than he would be with normal sight and sound, for example - but his info gain is a tradeoff rather than a straight increase.
That's what makes his basic power design cool to me. When he enters OE - which is the only tell you need for what I'm describing - you have a decision to make: do you want to risk Jason seeing you, or do you want to stay hidden?
Which of those two options is the right call depends heavily on a whole bunch of factors, which is kinda refreshing considering a good few killers have far more flowchart-esque counterplay. Plus, if you do decide you want to be hidden, you can be way more hidden than against most other killers, because again- if you stay crouched Jason cannot see or hear you at all, that's a more potent way of avoiding chase than you can get even with perks involved against other killers.
Not being able to see him doesn't make a tremendous amount of difference here, the decision is about risk to begin with. If you're taking that risk (which is practically the right call by default, you'd need a reason to avoid him outright), you'll be scanning the teleport points nearby to see if he's manifesting, similar to looking out for Wraith's shimmer as he approaches.
I want to repeat though, I think some of the information he gets - mostly totem cleansing - isn't healthy. I'm talking strictly about the footsteps and generator mist here.
There is no reason not to chase you if your the only person you can find, unless he's holding a 3 gen or just refusing to go to a busted set up bit that's no a jason thing that's just all killers. You have to bait his power just like any other killer it's just done in the reverse that everyone is use to.
Do know when he's leaving for gens because you hear his power happen. Dredge, demo,wraith are the same you know there going somewhere else but you don't know exactly where .
I agree with you, If a Jason is playing chase he will go for you and I find him enjoyable to verse honestly but alot are playing OE spam hold the prime zone Jason which is no fun
I agree with @cogsturning that the most comparble to Jason OE is Henery Undergate or dracs bats
I dont find it comparble to most of the killers you mention bar wraith just as a traversal comparison but Jason could be leaving you when he goes into OE, or he could be baiting you to go back to gen so he can hit you in prime area, he could be going to go get someone else, but the surviours have no way of being able to tell until he decides to leave OE (grass IK is one but i dont count it because its a small number of maps got enough grass)
The surviours dont get to make choices based on ques, they have to guess what Jason is gonna do when hes using OE which i dont fine enjoyable every other Killer in game has some sort of ques.
Edit : Replying to @Gamedozer7 did on mobile and quote seems to of not worked.
The problem is crows decide that you can't stay hidden. All this killer has to do is hard tunnel one or two people out and your choice in the 2v1 is reveal yourself and die or wait for the crows to do it for you. His power negates every single stealth perk in the game, and every stealth option. It negates aura. It negates perks like Stakeout and Hyperfocus, one of the only gen builds not nerfed by diminishing. He also gets to do casual drive-bys on gens without leaving his power or even kicking. So focusing on gens is more restricted as well. OE forces survivors into a chase-based playstyle, and his assortment of other tricks makes the chases 10s against many players. The idea of voluntarily taking chase works fine if someone has that confidence, or if it's a SWF coordinating, but that's not most people. Not to mention the non-existent cooldown on OE which was heavily used to tunnel in my survivor matches.
The issue is OE on top of everything else. If that was his whole ability, minus haste and and KI, with no ranged attack, then the info would be fine, because he's now a regular M1 killer. He'd be Wraith but more interesting. But the ability to infinitely sit in OE until survivors absolutely most reveal themselves combined with a very easy to replenish projectile, haste, KI, and a bunch of mini moris that make saves impossible against an already overstuffed killer is just too much.
He could keep the info if he had some visible fog-form or something. A huge part of his unfairness is getting so much while survivors don't even get to know where he is. If every map had grass then cool but most have no indicators. If you can see and hear Henry in Undergate, Drac's bats, and Wraith cloaked why is there zero indicator for Jason? There's no killer who can stay in their power infinitely and be completely inperceivable.
Touch a totem/chest/gen for a split second. There you go i guess.
I got them the other day when a Hex Jason was keeping an eye on the first move and I was waiting for him to go on another survivor so I could have time to deal with his thrill hex.
It's the 2nd time I got crows vs a hex jason, they don't need to risk coming out of OE coz they get ruin value if no one is on gens, if someone is on a gen/totem then they get blood favor for p.much free.
OE is just not very interactive when used optimally.
I mean, in a 2v1, yeah, but the long drawn out stealth standoffs there aren't exactly good for the game, that's its own issue that needs solving constructively for everyone involved.
While you're actually still playing the match, crows don't stop you from making the decision to stay hidden unless you're trying to avoid ever being seen at any point, which isn't something you have access to against any other killer either.
As for it negating every stealth tool, that comes at the cost of it having a counter that is far more effective than all of those stealth tools combined. Nothing that you can personally bring into a match can make you completely invisible and undetectable the way crouching while Jason's in OE can do. In a sense it gives every survivor stealth perks by default that they can choose when to use, because it replaces the usual perk-based stealth loop with one that's baked in to every single game against that killer.
Yes, at some point you have to show yourself and take chase, but that's not unique to Jason. That's just how DBD works.
Hexes are an issue with Jason, yeah, if we're narrowing the scope to just those builds I can see how people would get crows if they're not confident.
The solution there is to weaken his ability to monitor hexes though.
Exactly, I've never really had the issue versus normal Jason, especially now deputy's badge was bug fixed. It's just hex jason that's left for me. That and let me avoid OE with lockers too so I can actually use Head on again lol
Doing them for a split second does not help, All tho suppose you could do chests and totems in areas you know he isn't patrolling may help until you run out (like a dull totem in corner of map)
That's my strategy if i don't wanna get afk crows in drawn out matches. Works well, but most of my soloq teammates dont know that. :(
I thought his power reveals Survivors not moving as well. I try to counter both by spin crouching which is "movement" to avoid AFK crows but not enough to make footprints. I haven't confirmed whether my aura shows up anyway though.