Finally Removing Handholding from Killers
Lots of talk about the survivors getting handheld with the recent release notes, but it far more looks like the killer's handholding is being removed
Nothing is certain until we see the numbers, and like a lot of recent BHVR changes they went big instead of trying more simple solutions first, but let's look at a few things
Getting a survivor out and creating a 3v1 will still be to the killer's benefit, but hopefully it doesn't so frequently mean the trial is effectively over and the 3 others will still have a chance.
Removing the unhook notification is an excellent change. This is has been a simplistic basekit method that allows killers to tunnel without requiring much game sense, instead the game just tells them 'go here now'
Free benefits for spreading hooks is exactly what has been asked for in trade for anti-tunnel. Even if you eliminate a survivor on the 5th hook and the survivors get the increased gen speed, you get free boosts off the unique hooks (anywhere from one to four times-plus you still get increased benefits from your hooks here on out).
Survivors are losing the ability to body block off hook, again something else that has been requested for a long time and makes it easier for killers to get that next unique hook if they are pursuing the unhooker.
Slugging might be the only thing that is just a straight nerf, but 90 seconds is a long time in DbD. It's not like slugging suddenly can't happen anymore, it just hopefully eliminates the strategy of slugging one survivor and focusing on tunneling the others.
It looks like the patch is encouraging the exact types of play that should happen, those that require more game sense and award adapting strategies to the circumstances, and punish the simplistic strategies that have been overpowered for far too long.
At least until BHVR backtracks and none of this actually makes it to live.
Comments
Also keep in mind if they kill them selves or team sacrifices them on 5th hook its most likely wont be punishable due to it not being killers fault.
Many content creators pointed it out that its a bit confusing why they will get perma repair speed boost and such for survivor not saving them on time.
Other than that everything else seems to be in order
As someone who swerves on recent unhooks, doesn't slug, and intentionally spread hooks, I'm thrilled. Basekit is getting a big buff for fair players.
damn bro didn't know bhvr was holding my hand by the fact they literally been adding more restriction to my role for the past yearThey're removing the handholding that has been in place.
im still gonna see it on the hud and come back i don't need a notification lmaoThe way I see the post it sounds like it won't show on the HUD.
When a Survivor is hooked, their hook status is hidden from the Killer. When they’re unhooked, there is no notification and their hook status isn’t revealed immediately.I take the hook status isn't revealed immediately to mean the HUD doesn't update right away.
The whole point is to throw off people with bad game sense who don't even know where rhey hooked the person. Sure people will come back. That's expected. You're just supposed to go for the rescuer, not the rescued.
are you now
the devs are actively misinforming killers now
It's a little cathartic if I'm being completely honest.
I remember when 6.1.0 dropped and Killers were able to run very oppressive slowdown builds that required no interaction from them while standing in front of hook and being able to recover fast enough after a successful attack to grab any Survivor off of hook. It was literally impossible to swap without Desperate Measures or another Survivor, which is why I started running it to begin with. Basekit BT evaporated into nothing before it was buffed, what, a week later? Steamrolls and going next skyrocketed overnight, with BHVR saying it was an acceptable state for the game to be in and any concern about that being met with "you're just mad that your precious Dead Hard is gone".
Meanwhile, this change is actually much healthier for the game and seems to benefit both sides overall. All it does is add more autonomy to Survivor in dire situations, while still removing a bit at the same time via body blocks. Conspicuous actions are still a thing. Endgame presence is still incredibly lacking for Survivor. It's just making tunneling and slugging less viable than before. And you'd think it's like Survivor discovered the launch codes against Killer.
It tells me pretty much everything I already know.
The handholding is that the most powerful strategies have always been the easiest to execute. 3 genning from the start, facecamping, and tunneling are all things that required very little skill expression on the part of the killer and BHVR is right to finally nerf them.
Well I mean 6.1.0 was the only time in DBD's history where killer was definitively the real power role of the game so it's really not suprising why you'd hate it.
I wouldn't say the only time. But it was excessively in the Killers' favor, to the point that it actively harmed the game. If it didn't, we wouldn't be where we are now with this patch.
Okay but BBQ is also one of the most common perks as is and in my killer matches almost no one tries to counter it when I run it. In my survivor matches I'm almost always the only one going in a locker or positioning myself behind a gen to block it (and other aura perks). People don't think.
You can still go after the unhooker. No one had a problem with that. The rescued person just gets to get away now. And they can no longer bodyblock, which makes it even better.
Yeah you're right, there could be no other explanation.
tunneling, sure i guess but that has existed since the dawn of dbd so not sure how that is hand holdingWhat does something being around since the beginning of the game have to do with whether its handholding or not?
so…what are u about exactly…?If you don't want to look at the broader examples DbD has been working in, what over the past year has restricted your ability to play killer (to go back to your first reply here)?
You don't have to deal with flashbangs while facing the wall, survivors start clumped up, there's more A and S tier killer options than there was a year ago, so…what are u about exactly…?
and if there was this so called hand holding wouldn't u think a lot of low tier killers would be played more?No, because if you're a person who is going to take the easiest route, you're going to take the easiest route with the easiest killers to do it with.
But plenty of low tiered killers do get played. Looking at either BHVR's stats or Nightlight there's a pretty wide diversification in killers.
Glad you agree. 😎
Yeah, the numbers of things will have a huge impact.
Maybe my expectations are way too low at this point, but I'm just happy that BHVR is looking in the correct direction.
You can tell when people are running BBQ when they run straight to another person after an unhook. Just pay attention. I hide anyway, as a precaution, until I figure out the killer's perks. Again, people don't think. The average potato will continue to not counter.
The game never should have announced unhooks to killers to begin with. I only run back to the hook if they unhook when I'm still like 3 meters away or I have nothing else going on. Basekit aura will provide me with a new target. And two people engaging with unhooks and healing means max two people on gens for you to pressure instead. People also tend to (stupidly) jump on a gen right near their unhook. You also still have other aura perks to utilize. Killers are getting basekit buffs with no perk nerfs.
You haven't even seen how this is going to play out. Everything in this will be adjusted. And by adjusted I mean nerfed.
The upside is that with incredibly low expectations, anything halfway decent will feel like a million bucks. These changes still have me skeptical to say the least, but I also feel pretty excited to try them out. If they stay true enough to these patch notes, that is.
I mean what would be the point of explaining a "conflict of interest" to you, you don't strike me as someone whose open to the possibility of being wrong. I also don't think it'll matter; the effects of this patch if this course is maintained will be realized somewhere in the next couple of months, and when killer is seen to be untenable you will get the conditions which kicked off the 6.0.0 shake up all over again. The exchange just isn't comensrative, even taken the hook trade incentives to a comical level which they'd never do.
There's always Identity V; the times are changing.
You sure know a lot about me, huh? 😵
I know that no serious person uses emojis in a meaningful discussion. You also aren't excactly beating the allegations here, kiddo.
This is a serious discussion? I thought being sarcastic with me meant you were being a silly billy.
At the very least my sarcasm could be an invitation to use your imagination, provoke thought and consider perhaps there may be other answers or causes to the effect. Snark is just banal snark, drop a "sweetie 💅" and complete the picture already big brain.
Oh it's 100% going to be a buggy mess. I think we can all agree on that.
Yikes.
Yeah if the HUD lies to me about game information, then I'm just done with BHVR and any faith I have left in their balance team. Utterly ridiculous if such a change comes to live.
its as if almost not everyone wants to get a heart attacking play dbd and wants to chill, makes me wonder….Cool, you can play however you want. It's a PvP game though, not a single player game, one side getting an easy pass is absurd.
their mains play them, hence why the kill rate is high, its kinda of obvious seeing how nurse has a lower kill rate despite her being nurse….And you get to choose which killers you want to play.
so killers have been getting their hands held since 2016 because of tunneling….? so u are comparing one aspect of "hand holding" to the plethora that survivors have, seems fair to meI've listed a few examples of things since 2016, there is also the general info they receive but that's a necessary game component.
let's see here, limited my gen kicking because of 1 killer,You can kick a gen 8 times, you can still incorporate close together gens as part of your strategy, you just can't hyper focus on them.
This change came with an increase to all gen kicks basekit and removed gen tapping.
Also, over a year and a half ago.
can't pressure healing anymore because its overtuned,We once had medkits that were so strong you could heal in chase and a boon that granted self healing.
They nerfed all of that, then they've walked some of it back.
can't pressure gens to the point where killers play with 3 gens instead of 5 even in a good chaseWhat?
If this means you can't win a game where the survivors complete 0 gens, good, that's an absurd standard.
overtuned perksAlways been true and goes back and forth on both sides.
the fact i can't even play killer to just have fun anymore because i dare to main low tier killersDidn't you earlier say that people who main the low tier killers is why their kill rate is high?
Again, you can play whoever you want, just as I can play survivor with off meta stuff in soloq. But its a PvP game, I don't have the right to expect that I can play chill and get the same results as if I played sweaty.
so your definition of "hand holding" is the killer trying to win…by using tactics allowed by the game…is that right?Infinites were handholding. It was a tactic that was allowed by the game that was too strong that survivors used because they were trying to win.
Auto completing gens was handholding. It was a tactic that was allowed by the game that was too strong that survivors used because they were trying to win.
What you're saying here makes you sound very silly. Of course these things are allowed, that's why they are called hand holding, and of course players are trying to win, that has no merit on whether something is broken. Hand holding is when the game gives a tactic which is easy to execute while achieving tremendous value.
The kill rate basically stood at 50% to 60% in favor of Killer so obviously it needed to scale towards survivor. It's my opinion that the game does need to slightly favor Killer for game health. The problem is in the extremes, skilled Killers vs. sloppy solo's.
Hand holding? All these changes just make it easier for the weakest link to stay in the game and for SWF to bait hooks to try to trigger the buffs so they can gen rush. I feel like this will only push people to S Rank killers. It seems killers are just ment to carry water for the survivors enjoyment. Making sure each one is fairly hooked and avoiding obvious ones that now will effectively be immortal before 6 hooks. We're just npc in the haunted house party game DBD wants to provide.
Hand holding?Yes
All these changes just make it easier for the weakest link to stay in the gameThe idea that as killer you can win just by matching yourself to the weakest of four players is a form of handholding. But you can still do it and it will still benefit you.
SWF to bait hooks to try to trigger the buffs so they can gen rushHow much do you think the gen buff will be? It would probably have to be around 100% to make this a viable strategy.
Knowing BHVR it will be a relatively small buff that will make the loss of a teammate not as devastating, but still a massive blow.
But none of these changes really address the issue of why many killers feel they are forced to tunnel to win a game. If you play a weaker killer and try to play fair often you find yourself 2 gens down by your first 2 hook. Thus, the pressure to get someone out of the game comes into play with all the gen rushing in this game. I dont feel that this minor buffs for killer which I think will only be for 5 or 10 seconds will even out the force play these changes will bring. Thus I think it will force many killers to play S rank movement killers so they can get enough pressure in the early game not to worry about 6 hooks.
Agree with all, but especially "until BHVR backtracks and none of this actually makes it to live" lol
If you play a weaker killer and try to play fairAnd what about if you play a stronger killer and don't play fair?
Killers are in tiers, discussing how to balance them is a more complicated topic. The fact that all of the killers have an easy to use but very powerful strategy, while buffing playstyles that lead to a better overall game, is the issue that is trying to be addressed.
find yourself 2 gens down by your first 2 hookDepending on pallets expended, that's an absolutely fine start. Survivors should get the first gens done quickly because its hard for the killer to defend the entire map, but the latter gens become more difficult.
I dont feel that this minor buffs for killer which I think will only be for 5 or 10 secondsI guess we'll see, but I highly doubt the gen speed buff will be anywhere near enough to offset a survivor being eliminated (nor should it, but that is what people seem to think is going to happen).
They know why people feel forced to tunnel. This is a post from a dev a couple years back.
Right but this only really applies to killers. Theirs no other play style, but 6 hooking now as god forbid people had to bring perks to counter killer play. That would force them to elevate their play style. Honestly that just reeks of an excuse of why they were unable to provide any incentive to killers to go with the play style they obviously want and now essentially have to force.
There's a part of me that thinks after this summer BHVR is, to use a phrase I've heard the kids use, 'embracing their villain era' (as an old I probably grossly misused it).
Basically I expect after the community spends all weekend fighting about this they'll come back next week and be like 'The gen progress will be 1%, the pop is a 1.5%, the haste is 50% and lasts for 0.25 seconds, and the BBQ and Chilli works on survivors in a range of 60 to 72 meters only. LOL.'