Quitters
Is there anything that can be done about quitters? Specifically survivors. Been tracking it, and out of the last 461 matches, I've had 17 matches where the killer DCed. 28 matches where a survivor DCed, but on top of that, 41 matches where a survivor took their chances on hook and died. Of those, almost all were one survivor in a match giving up. There were 3 matches where two survivors quit, and they were clearly playing as a duo. That means 69 out of 461 matches where one teammate made the match unwinnable or close to it. The DC bots have helped a ton, but is there any talk of the devs trying to figure out a way to disincentivize ending it on hook?
Comments
yes. The devs plan to implement features against this behaviour.
It’s described in this pinned thread here on the forums (though there will be more Details shortly before the respektive PTB):
You took stats over 461 matches. That's dedication.
There was a lot of survivors who would dc in games against killers like Blight Nurse Skull Merchant Bubba etc.
Now it seems to be against any killer.
Played Clown and survivor killed themselves on first hook.
Ghostface survivor killed themselves on first hook.
Hardly the strongest killers.
I don't know what the answer is to killing themselves on first hook.
But it must be infuriating for their teammates.
Well thats the thing you dont see everything on killer.
You dont see the 1-2 afks dont have crows yet since the start of the match. Or 2 people bagging and emoting at eachother while your on hook.
Just a couple of examples where its not exactly so black and white for the person giving up.
Clearly the obvious fix to this is to just nerf Pig. Everyone KNOWS she's the best killer in the game, but for some reason like to pick on weakling killers like Nurse and Blight.
Interesting. Only 6% of games had a survivor DC? That seems to be much, much higher in my games. I’d say closer to 20%.
Maybe it’s a regional thing?
I am the one who dcing or killing himself on hook, because in soloQ games in most matches you already know the result of the match in first 2 minutes and i dont want to spend ex 5-10 minutes just to entertain killers
I mean it shouldent matter to the devs at all concidering how most killers just tunnel out 1 person to try to gain the win before a gen gets done trying to basically call themselvs skilled because they took the match hostage as soon as we spawned in the new surrender options isn't going to change NOTHING Bbecause it only punished the sirvivours and not the killer what so ever TBH if they were that worried about QOL the hatch would spawn 2 hayches if the killer would leaves the second last survivoir on the ground to. Fully prevent and get rid of the 2 man slug on the ground to prevent hatch to spawn
as the great not_queen would once say SoonTM
side note I gave one of my 5th anniversary medkits to a trapper that spared me and decided to let me have hatch on behalf of you.
They should make sure habitual quitters all queue up with each other and keep them out of normal queues
it’s only 1 min the first time you dc. If you do it again within a not specified time after that your penalty increases each time. It starts this low because there are legitimate reasons for dc ing which shouldnt be penalized (facing cheaters, being held hostage, reallife reasons/emergencys and genuine connection loss, stuck due to bug/glitches, etc)
Yes, they are going to deincentivize giving up on hook. It will probably be in the form of punishing survivors for leaving and not identifying the root cause, so I don't think you'll see a change in the outcomes or effort in your games.
i can't wait... Yesterday it was me and 3 bots vs an absolute sweatlord artist who kept tunneling me...
Let's hope the anti go next prevents people like you from repeatedly doing it time and time again. A nice long penalty would do the trick nicely.
Not everything can be perfect. I don't like having a game ruined by a brattie teammate killing themselves on hook, but then again I don't want to have to be stuck in a mend sim game with legion & two teammates not doing any gens after my one swf buddy has been tunnelled out.
The devs are wrong to try to 'fix' this, there is no way their system will stop it, the 'AI' won't ever be smart enough not to punish the 'innocent' with a ton of aggravating collateral damage and the 'guilty' will just do their best with whatever rules are there at any time. Also the 'go next'ing keeps the kill rate artificially high which makes it easier for killer mains to bear the gen rushing swfs who we have to face a good proportion of the time.
Seriously, it's like those suicide nets that exist in the Chinese factories that make our computers, the managers think the nets are the best solution to working conditions that provoke suicide rather than actually having humane working conditions. Change for change's sake is not a worthy goal in itself, but if the devs have too much time on their hands try fixing what makes the game annoying for the folk who 'go next' or if that's impossible make more cosmetics or something, this stuff about ending 'go next' and killing map offerings is seriously making me worry the game's going to get a lot worse. Most of the games now are fine in regards this, people are playing; slugging and tunnelling are bad, but the devs caused this by creating so many perks relating to hook states and guillotining every decent slow down perk because each patch cycle one slow down perk or another was 'meta'.
The biggest reason that I see people DC, Killer or Survivor, is because the player feels like the round is not worth playing or isn't fun. This is usually because of one of the following:
- They feel they have no way to reach their goal in time: i.e., Survivors are popping gens super fast or Killer is getting a lot of hooks fast and the player's own side has barely started (few hooks, few gens done, etc.)
- The other side is playing in a way that is clearly done to frustrate the other side (griefing/Bully Squads) or is playing to win as quickly as possible (Tryharding): i.e., The Survivors are a SWF that brought heavy gen progression against a low mobility M1 Killer on a large map, the Killer is a four Slowdown tunnelling Blight, the Killer is slugging really hard from the word go, the Survivors are a Sabo Squad trying to prevent the Killer from getting ANY hooks at all while hoping they're baby enough for one teammate to pump gens and leave, etc.
- They perceive the round as a bad MMR mismatch - too easy or too hard: A Ghostface loads into a round against a really strong and skilled SWF that averages 4000+ hours, two newer players load in and their first round of the day is a really good Nurse player with 15k hours, a Comp Pinhead Main used to strong teams loads into Haddonfield against players that clearly have never faced Pinhead before, a generic group of friends loads in to find their Doctor for the round is a Shard farming bot, etc.
- They feel "bullied" for some reason whether or not griefing is happening or not (actual rage quitting): An inexperienced player has been struggling as Legion all day and mistakenly sees any team that merely does well as being a "bully SWF", a Survivor has had the misfortune of getting a lot of tunnelling Killers recently and thus perceives even Killers who happen to catch them multiple times in the open by chance as "tunnelling", etc.
- The other side feels the round was unfairly stacked against them with offerings or items and doesn't want to even begin the round: i.e., a percieved SWF bringing a bunch of map offerings especially maps that favor Survivor heavily, a Killer bringing an Iri Mori in an event, and so on.
- The player gets someone or multiple someones on their team they perceive to be bad teammates or unserious in some way: i.e., A Blight in 2v8 looking for a skilled partner gets matched with a player just learning Nurse, a more serious minded SoloQ Survivor gets matched with a silly SWF or with brand new players, a player gets matched with other Survivors or AGAINST Survivors where someone throws early, etc.
- Someone in the round is cheating, hacking, or playing in a suspicious manner: A Survivor successfully sets up Treacherous Crows but the Killer does not light up any Crows despite not being Undetectable, A Killer with an aura read build notices that one specific Survivor never lights up, speedhacking Nurse, Survivors are clearly using OBVIOUS cheat clients to make it so the Killer can never catch, pickup, down, or otherwise harm them, etc.
- There is a bot in the round, or too many bots in the round for any reason.
All of these come from a similar few problems, we can narrow that down to the following unfun match types:
- Unfair: MMR mismatches, tilting the Match in one side's favor, playtime differences causing an understandable skillgap between sides, Cheaters/Hackers.
- Unbalanced: Running only the meta or meta perks on strong Killers all the time, natural game events creating a tilt to one side or the other by chance, playing a Killer with a weaker kit against stronger Survivors by chance, bringing Meme builds against strong Killers by chance, etc.
- Unwanted: Griefing, BM, bots, "playing to win"/tryhards vs. the majority of more casual players, general unpleasant player to player events.
How do we fix it? Here's some ideas:
- Unfair: More robust MMR management and fairer means of gain/loss of MMR. Removing or balancing ways one side or the other can tilt the game in their favor when stacking things like items, addons, or offerings. Ensuring anyone under the 100 hour threshold NEVER plays against anyone above that threshold while they learn the game by placing them in a stricter "Kiddie Pool MMR". More robust cheat/hack detection that is continuously updated to ensure the most common kinds of hacks are noticed as invalid and instantly ban players doing them from the game.
- Unbalanced: Buffing perks to create more viable options for perk variety while balancing other perks that are a bit too strong. Balancing maps and tiles to be fair to even the most low mobility Killers as the bog standard, but adding a means of adjusting complexity of tiles for Killers that don't struggle with mobility or tiles as much. Buffing or balancing Killers that are low mobility by giving them more options or fixing problem areas in their kits, as well as map balancing. Disallowing too many multiples of the same perk between players in a SWF or too many of the same kind of Perk on one Killer in order to promote perk variation (NOT ideal). Prevention of weaker Killers from going against certain kinds of builds too often (also NOT ideal).
- Unwanted: Properly defining and handling actual griefing by preventing it from the start or putting lockout timers on people who do it too often. Addressing issues with there being multiple bots in a round, and adding killer bots should the Killer DC. Adding a ranked mode and a casual mode, or making the ranked mode super easy to pip in but based on killrate or scores instead of your pips for the seasonal grade. Changing how MMR and wins are calculated to promote the idea that 4ks and escapes are not the only way to win the game, pip up, reach a goal, etc. Prevention of those who have gone on long winstreaks from being matched with teams or Killers who are casual enough to lose a lot, play meme builds, let Survivors go free, etc. Better policing of griefing and BM, sore winners/losers, etc (not sure how this would look).
This game is horror villain tag/capture the flag. It really shouldn't feel frustrating by design. Killer players should not feel nervous with their stomach in knots loading in because the team they're against looks like they're here to rush gens and leave in five seconds when they want a casual Pig round. Survivor players should not have to deal with Killers so stressed by the time limit and all the things a decent team can DO to tilt things in their favor a bit that the Killer plays hard from the word go and pulls unfun tricks like tunnelling and slugging for multiple minutes. This game should not be a rush to go shorter shorter shorter rounds, we need to slow it down a bit.
And for the love of everything, Pipping should not feel like something you have to earn anymore, it should just happen if you stay in the round as a reward for later since Grades are JUST a measure of how much you played that month. Nobody cares about the Grades, but people do care about the BP attached to Grades, which though meaningless is enough incentive to sweat especially in higher Grades.
The problem isn't the slugging or the killing on hook here, what you're describing - though those are certainly issues.
The problem is this game has an idea of winning that is SO black and white, in a game not DESIGNED for that, that anything other than a clear win feels like a "lost cause".
This is true for Killer side as well. Why would anyone want to stay in a round where they only have a couple hooks and three gens have popped off in one minute? At some point it stops being a skill issue and starts being an actual issue with the game because humans cannot possibly complete all tasks when the tasks have to be done in a rapidly dwindling, stressful window.
Fun needs to be the focus for EVERYONE. You should be incentivized to care about everyone getting to enjoy the round. The problem is the game defines fun as winning and the definition of winning is so narrow…
if there are 2 survivors left they should not be able to surrender when slugged unless the killer keeps them both on the ground for some time. Because of hatch, killers who want to go for the 4k MUST slug the last 2 players and you should not be able to surrender while being carried to a hook either.
then why do they bring so many second chance perks?
Yea for survivor thats not how I define fun.
Not just because soloQ is a dice roll and we are just jaded but its mostly about macro for me.
Was my time spent worth to my team?
Did I make some helpful plays?
Did I engage with the killer in a meaningful way?
Was it 4v1?
Really the only things I look for in survivor play.
When timmynoshinsmcgee gets tunneled out at 5 gens or camped to death, none of these are filled.
Games a 3v1 immediately and the killer just does the same thing to the next target.
Or if someones afk, or crouch hiding every sliver of terror radius that comes their way etc…