How is 5 second ds ”too effective”??
The perk literally only lasts 60 seconds, and will disable if the survivor does anything useful for the team ( unhook, heal, repair gens etc) and does not work when exit gates are powered. It is insanely easy to counter this perk as killer, literally just dont tunnel.
If for some reason you have to down the same survivor again, leave them on the ground and come back later, the timer goes really fast. DS should be effective and punish killers who focus and tunnel one survivor.
Can someone please explain how on earth is ds ”too effective” with 5 second stun? I really dont get it
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Additionally, people think perk that activates for 60 seconds and has a 5 second stun is too effective and OTR having 80 second endurance is not? This does not make any sense
If you consider where to run after activating DS and choose a place to knock down, even a 3 second stun was effective against the majority of killers.
I think the reason why it was raised to 5 second stun was because there were too many survivors who would just go down in a position with no objects, activate DS, and just run straight without thinking. That's what I felt.
I think BhBR should inform players about what kind of perks/items/add-ons have what kind of values and effects, and give lectures on how to use them, before adjusting the perk values.
In particular, he said that he buffed it because he wanted people to realize that it can be used for sabotage with this Toolbox update, but if they were made aware of it in the first place, there would be no need for buffs, and even if they were buffed, they would not be able to use it in the game description or on BhVR's SNS. Rough players who don't read it will remain unaware.
@jotaro OTR is because there are many players who ``for some reason'' return to the killer in unnecessary situations, body block the person who unhooked them when they are in a safer position than themselves, and negate the effect of the perk themselves. , it may be considered ineffective.
you know OTR is in play because you won't hear their noises so you can avoid it. Also an OTR hit provides less distance than a DS stun as far as I know.
It leads to being used offensively.
Now it means that, if you are being tunneled, you are fine, because, in theory, you should be going down near some structure or pallet or something, you DS, and you have time to get there.
But at 5 seconds, you could just body block in a corner of the map dead zone and have enough time to run to the opposite end of the map.
I don't think we should even pretend like this is a balancing decision from BHVR.
I think it's clear that this is about the animation not working. They wanted it to be an effective four second stun, but that didnt work, so now they're just doing it manually.
That's also a fair point. I'm more responding to it being 3 seconds vs 4 seconds vs 5 seconds. In reality, take a second off for the current animation to play out.
But 3 seconds is too short unless you are downed like on a pallet or loop
5 seconds is too long because you can offensively use it in corners of the map and still get somewhere safe
4 seconds is probably just right, where, if you are getting tunneled, its going to help you, but if you are using it offensively, to body block a doorway or something, you are gonna have a harder time getting somewhere safe.
It's a survivor perk. It does a thing that benefits survivors.
That makes it OP.
How are you using it offensively in the corner of the map? If a killer chases you all the way into the corner of the map, downs you and picks you up, they deserve to get stunned for 5.
okay but.. just dont tunnel? Try to patrol gens and go for other survivors? When exit gates are powered tunneling is understandable, and killers dont need to worry about ds.
If the survivor plays offensively with ds, that means they aren’t doing anything useful for the team in the whole 1 minute and the killer can just down them and leave on the ground for pressure and go for other survivors, or come back and pick them up when ds is gone.
The conditions of the perk lead to it being used offensively. Bodyblocking a fresh hook to try and stun the killer is not what it was meant for. You already have survivors using base kit bt to body block, otr to bodyblock etc don't play dumb
Again, talking about the offensive usages of the perk, like, standing in a doorway and physically using your body with basekit BT to prevent the killer from going after someone else.
The killer can't "chase you to a corner of the map" the survivor dictates where the chase goes.
Sounds like you haven't played killer a day in your life. You get bodyblocked by a ds survivor in a door just ignore them right just go find another survivor across the map who's likely hiding now. These are all used as time wasters that don't cost map resources to pull off.
Lol? DS only works if you pick up the survivor
just slug them
Ds is commonly ran with unbreakable so now you slug a survivor who can pick themselves up and lost where the next person is meanwhile two gens are being worked on. Congrats you lost the game being an anti tunneler who went out his way to avoid a ds user being aggressive
commonly, not always
even so, they are wasting their perk, unbreakable is more game changing during endgame
I've never seen a perk jerked around with so much as DS.
Pain res? Been touched how many times and it's been out for much less time
How do you know what the perk is meant for? BHVR itself has never determined DS should be just an anti-tunnel perk.
You can't. You can take a hit, but you can't force the killer to change targets.
But you were talking about using it offensively after the killer chased you to the corner of the map. That sounds to me like the killer is actively and intentionally chasing a target that has been unhooked within the last 60 seconds, which is what DS is supposed to be for.
How does 4s make it any better? A survivor can still block you from hitting another survivor. The same dilemma exists with the same options on the table.
Remember, the point of DS is to make enough distance from the killer where they have to go out of their way to down you again. It is not supposed to be a minor annoyance.
It is funny that you say "It's a survivor perk. It does a thing that benefits survivors. That makes it OP" when in the same patch a bunch of meta killer perks are also being nerfed.
You'll never make sense out of someone who only plays one side.
What's your point?
Killers overperform, they get nerfed, so then it's fine if survivors also get nerfed?
DS has been through about four changes now.
Every perk which is too strong of not used for its intented purpose should be nerfed.
"How do you know what the perk is meant for? BHVR itself has never determined DS should be just an anti-tunnel perk."
Patch 4.6.0:
in what world is bodyblocking a killer can be considered "part of evading the killer"?
According to data which is inaccurate as far as how strong a killer is.
Well, DS wasn't too strong, and where does it list its intended purpose?
How is body blocking solved with this change?
In what world do you think the game can tell what a bodyblock is?
Note also that it says 'certain' actions. Not 'all' actions.
Yes, I imagine you'd prefer to rely on killer anec-data, where killers will declare something OP if it made getting a 4K slightly harder.
Wish I was joking, but it's a legitimate trend that there'll be complaints about a survivor loadout or playstyle, with the attached proof being an end-game screen with a 4K.
Opposed to what? Chasing the survivor that did the unhook? Guess where the unhook survivor is going to run to. To a gen to finish. At least in the scenairo where you slugged it's two on gens instead of three.
The game has perks that activate on protection hits so I'm pretty sure the game can tell
A protection hit is literally just taking a hit while near an injured survivor. The injured survivor can be crouched hiding in a bush near your active chase and you'll get a protection hit prompt. It does not in any way detect if you bodyblocked the killer or any interaction, only the vicinity to an injured survivor when taking the hit.
i started playing a lot of killer like half a year-year ago after all the survivor nerfs. I rarely have ever got stunned by ds because i dont tunnel and if i have to, i leave the survivor on the ground. And what do you mean bodyblocked by a survivor with ds in a door? Ds doesnt work after last gen is done. Sounds like you haven’t played survivor a day in your life. Ds is rarely effective at all and a waste of perk slot unless the killer decides to focus you.
Slugging for map pressure mid game or protecting gens instead of tunneling isn’t a waste of time.
Ruin, DH, theres a couple
They mean doorway not the exit gate.