Has anyone been concerned on all the past reworks that's been done?
The majority of the reworks done last year have been awful to say the least, the community doesn't like the changes made and it will take BHVR months to address these feedback or suggestions for it be changed. Don't get me wrong, reworks are cool but they haven't been good to the point where everyone is satisfied with the changes.
The Maps:
Map reworks have been great visually, they've changed the game to make it look nicer and keep it line with other games. However, random things such as the amount of random clutter in the map doesn't help. Coldwind Farm corn has been basically removed in most variations except Rotten Fields, and replaced with random rocks or barrels, the occasional filler pallets have been really unsafe as well, you see these on Fractured Cowshed. I'm glad that Fractured Cowshed was nerfed as against decent survivors it was extremely difficult to win. But the other coldwind maps did NOT deserve the treatment they got. Red Forest was also an issue, the size of the map had been an issue for ages and it took Behaviour months in order to make it smaller, and whilst adding just all the random vegetation in the map (Trapper mains dream), and for a while they took one of the most largest maps Red Forest and Temple of Purgation and made them even worse. Shelter Woods is just straight up confusing, whilst originally it was a barebone empty map with only a tree in the middle with the lack of resources, suddenly they change it to fit in line with the Skull Merchant. Out of all killers they chose to make it a map for her, instead of making her own map they just added some giant base in the middle, this is just horrible as it ruins what the MacMillian Estate was known for. Garden of Joy rework is a complete failure, the main building is still a huge issue, the solution of breakable doors made the windows even more problematic. Generator spawns have been changed as well with most of the generators spawning on the street, with the odd occasion of one maybe spawning on either side of the main building. Map is equally bad for both sides. Next we have Haddonfield... and with the original disaster of a 3 gen that was used by all killer players for months until Behaviour finally took actions, whilst it's been an improvement compared to the original map they've changed it by making the houses a prime area for you to be looped on, whilst the rest of the map has no more than 6 filler loops filled with dead zones. The windows on all the houses should be reworked to make it fair for the killer. I could go on about maps but I would be rambling, as most people already know the issues. In summary, Behaviour can rework the maps visually, but they can't balance them it's either in favour of one side or not enough.
The Killers:
Skull Merchant has been a mess since her release, I don't know what to say at this point. Survivors still don't like playing against her despite her 3 gen ability being nerfed, and some people don't like playing her. Trickster rework is also a complete failure, he can easily take out survivors with his main event that he gets so frequently in matches. Recoil removal is nothing to people that were experienced with Trickster, movement speed buff is okay but he has blades with no range limitations, and the terror radius increase means nothing as his lullaby is 40 meters. From being changed from his PTB state as he was wiping lobbies with ease, to be changed by the live game to be changed ONCE again in a week and yet people still don't like it. Sadako rework is that bad that she is getting another rework in this upcoming patch! As Sadako players have find ways to essentially win the game by remaining AFK, that's how bad a rework is for the killer. Which links to my point, their reworks can either make the killer really strong or destroy them in all their abilities (Looking at you Freddy..), the problem is Sadako with is similar to Freddy's issue, they made the ultimate solo queue stomper so they had to be changed in order to make it fair. Even if everyone does know about the tapes of Sadako, there is still ways around it.
Please feel free to share you thoughts, or correct anything I've said. These are some of the things I can think of, and it's make me concerned whenever a rework is announced within the Developer Update posts as it makes wondering will it be a success or a failure?
Comments
For clarification - I basically made this post after playing Sadako for the 10th today and essentially winning my matches by teleporting to one of the TVs every 60 seconds, and it made me think on most recent reworks haven't gone well.
im Scared for whenever they rework swamp
they are totally gonna butcher the map and have it be a giant dead zone or the most survivor sided map in the game
Map reworks have been great visually, they've changed the game to make it look nicer and keep it line with other games.
I disagree with that, but I understand those are personal opinions.
What we can agree if is the fact that the mere word "rework" is a bad omen around here. Every time it happens we either know something will get ruined, or we desperately hope it doesn't happen.
And it isn't just the recent ones. If we go further back, we find the saddest examples:
-Freddy: The absolute worst rework in the game's history. In a matter of one patch (3.1.0), a killer that required only a reversion of nerfs and a single QoL change gets replaced by something else entirely. He was my main before the rework, and I have yet to get my favorite killer back.
-Hillbilly: The one change no one could have predicted. I mean, surely the "golden child" of Dead by Daylight's killer balance would avoid unnecessary changes, right?... Right?
Sure, someone could come here and point me towards Bubba or Legion. But as I've said on another thread, a full rework always has a risk.
And that is why it is dangerous to ask for those.
I am curious what they will irrevocably break with the Blight add-ons rework. Hard to be optimistic about it given the BHVR track record.
I like the swamp as both killer and survivor. I think the main problem BHVR has is a lot of people that WANT to play killer but don't want to put the effort into playing killer. While you have these survivors that have adapted to crappy plays by predictable killers.
Best fix for dbd get rid of mmr
It's certainly concerning. But I'd rather them take a swing and miss on something than leave something in a bad state. Of course, that doesn't apply to completely inexplicable changes like Hillbilly.
As boring as Freddy is now, OG Freddy would be even more reviled than release Skull Merchant in current DbD. Can you imagine a killer than can inflict a 50% action speed penalty on a 3 gen on top of perks like Pentimento+Dying Light+etc? Did they get the Freddy rework and subsequent nerfs wrong? Probably. But the attempt was logical.
Skull Merchant is self-explanatory. Is she interesting to play against? Not particularly. But it's better than hostage merchant was.
Onryo...is a weird one. I think this is a case of them maybe not being that proficient at DbD or not doing their due diligence in terms of thinking how the power would be optimized. Players predicted the problems with the reworked kit within hours of the PTB dropping. It was really obvious that the spam teleport playstyle was going to be a thing.
The fact that Dull Merchant even got to live is concerning.
I think the visually the maps should have options on the old graphics or new graphics. But I was pointing out that's how the rework is only okay with doing.. anything else is terrible.
Wake up and the slowdown is gone.
There is no waking up against Skull Merchant.
EDIT:
You have my respect, friend.
Going against slug condemned Sadako recently, I'm shocked that nobody still touches tapes. At all.
I did 2 gens by myself and never went past 5 stacks because, playing Sadako myself, I know how to best manage the tapes to avoid that. Yet survivors refuse to touch their tapes, never split up, and ONLY touch tapes when they're max condemned and Sadako is beelining for them.
I fear for whatever change is coming this month.
When she is spamming the teleport there aren't enough tapes for everyone to keep the condemned down. Its honestly that simple.
And yet I constantly saw TVs active. I'd point them to my teammates, and they'd completely ignore them and let their stacks fill to max. Only takes one active TV while she's busy elsewhere.
People don't want to risk being downed with one and giving everyone else a ton of condemned stacks. There is also the issue of trying to find a TV to get rid of your tape with which can also be problematic. I'm not denying players dont touch tapes. But there is also a very valid other side to the story.
Yes, but when she's currently in chase with someone else for longer than 20 seconds and survivors don't bother to cleanse their 4-5 stacks when an active TV is right behind them? I hate slug condemned spam as the next guy, refuse to do it myself, but when I never went past 5 stacks myself while everyone else turns a blind eye to safe TVs it's concerning.
My main point being after this recent Trickster rework, I hope BHVR doesn't go nuclear on her and make her more useless than pre-change Sadako.
I want old Sadoko back. Sadako rework is a sign the devs don't read the PTB section on the forums as there were tons of negative reviews from her mains and survivors which in this game is pretty rare. Also as survivor teamates not taking tapes is annoying. At least she is getting a change hopefully back to old Sadoko. I know fellow former Sadoko mains like @radiantHero23 will agree with me for the most part.
Whoever came up with Tricksters rework, I need to have a serious word with. I have no idea what was going through their head. I have not won a single match against him. A ranged killer 4.6? Main event is also busted. I already hated him and is now my least favourite killer in the game. If they do this to Huntress then I will quit the game until they change it back and if I recall correctly she is getting a tweak or a change next year.
Special mention needed for Rancid Abattoir. Deadzones, barely any pallets and what pallets there are are generally unsafe. I call that map the gen rush map. It's the only map I make an effort to just smash the gens out on because the pallets are all gone so fast, so need to get out asap.
And to think it was once a good map for survivors.
It is the opposite of The Game: what used to be a great map for killers became an improved version of Pallet Town.
True. I don't mind the reworking but they seem to go way overboard sometimes (or not enough, in the case of GoJ).
I do mind the reworking, but mostly because of the visuals. Balance can be adjusted separately.
As for Garden of Joy, I was honestly surprised when I was told they tweaked it. Way I see it, it was awful and it still is awful.
it depends what goal they have. they might turbo buff her passive phasing where she is suddenly a better chase killer but make her curse not as effective.
Agree!
I played her yesterday in my dayly rotation.
It felt boring and awful. Just like always with the new Sadako. So I went back to Chucky, Xeno, Demo, Bubba and.... PIG.
I hope that they finally realize that all the feedback wasn't coming out of nowhere and give her the changes she deserves in the upcoming update.
#bringbackSadako
Im telling the story over and over again:
Freddy... man the OG-Freddy with the Incapacitated-Effect while in Dream Transition.... it would make so much sense.
Well... I am able to win most of my matches with the current Freddy and yes, you have "more to do" now than OG, like mass fake-teleports und snares and all that sht, but it doesnt feel like Freddy.
Even Stretch Arms like in the first NOES-Movie back in 1984 (which would work like Xenos Tail) would fit more than hearing things louder... xD
Freddy... man the OG-Freddy with the Incapacitated-Effect while in Dream Transition.... it would make so much sense.
We have to try, my friend. We have to try and try until it happens.
Because if we don't, then who will?
I'm glad someone is enjoying Chucky. He's my favourite to go against and might get him.
I love playing Chucky and he is very fun to go against.
I really hate most map reworks. It‘s always just shrinking, moving things randomly around and making it brainlessly easy for killers.
The Borgo map is the worst in the game now and I really liked the map. I can‘t understand why it was changed. I didn‘t win any round there as survivor since the rework. The map is far too small, very slow killer find you in seconds and you have nothing to go to, because all loops are garbage. I don‘t even talk about fast killers!
I can‘t understand why they don‘t just adjust some loops and leave the rest.
Skull merchant should be deleted/ made weak, she will only waste behaviors recources and nobody will be happy.
To the killer reworks I can only say, that all reworks made the killers almost disappear. Before the Sadako and trickster rework I played regularly against those and now very rarely. I love old Sadako and she only needed some buffs, but nothing more.
I heard that swamp is next on their list and my only problem with this map is the size, it should be a bit bigger. We all know behavior will make it easier for killers so the map will be new Borgo and a nightmare for survivors. Hopefully they leave the map like it is.
All I can say is whenever I have a match against Trickster, it's me and three bots. People bone out as soon as they hear the terror music.
To me, that says a lot :/ How did this get past development?
He's super fun.
I'm enjoying him a lot right now.
That's the spirit!!!
Yes, my friend, someone has to fight for Freddy.
Until we get our killer back.
Yes.
Majority of the killer changes have been pretty mid and half of them weren't really reworks(legion, GF). I wasn't quite around when doctor got reworked but I did play some customs of him forever ago and that rework seems like the best in the game.
The maps I have a major problem with:
Autohaven and MacMillan: These two were maps I LOVED playing on both sides since I started playing. Every tile they added besides a couple edge-map filler tiles were for the worst, anything else changed about them was terrible besides cutting up the car walls on gas haven. Extremely sad what they did to the most overall balanced realms.
Coldwind: These maps were too strong for survivors due to strong jungle gyms and extremely strong filler tiles but they went way too far in the overall nerfs. I like maps with tiles the most so to see them be changed into shack, 2 lt walls, 1 jungle gym and a bunch of trash fillers is sad.
Red Forest: Literally didn't do anything, looks pretty but the visuals actual make it harder to see on now.
I haven't even gotten garden yet but I'm under the impression it's the same.
Borgo: whatever change.