Thoughts on losing pips...
As a survivor main I've come to terms with the fact that there are few skilled killers that make the match super fun all the while hooking every one of us and taking home a well deserved 4k while leaving us survivors exhilarated AND pipped for the effort! That leaves us with a majority of base mechanic abusers methodically proxy camping (since the new update), then focused tunneling while slugging whomever gets in the way....rinse repeat...minutes later killer-bot has their 4k. Like I said, I've come to terms with this boring behavior because when I get a greatly skilled killer, it makes it all worth playing. I also know that sometimes it's what they have to do to get a challenge done...I get it.
However...
What I haven't come to terms with when playing a match with a killer-bot: losing pips.
There is no incentive to stay in the match when it's that predictable AND you're gonna lose pips. You know that being strategic, taking hits, taking chase, rescuing, healing, or doing gens doesn't matter with killer-bots unless of course you happen to get an awesome click-looper to equally counter killer-bot to buy time but to honest, that's not fun either...I don't just want to do gens and escape, I want to p l a y.
So on top of wasting time with boring bot...we lose pips?! Not even neutral, no loss, no gain? It's no wonder survivors dc or suicide. I've always been against that but I'm starting to understand it might be the better option since I'm going to be bored, lose pip(s) anyway, waste my time, and give killer-bot more points with each hook... Why not cut my losses, not give them more points and suicide? You feel me?
So my question to you guys is: Shouldn't survivors at the very least NOT lose pips when we get killer-bots? Can that be measured internally? Or maybe give greater incentives to killer-bots NOT to bot the match so we can all have fun?
Straight Up: Losing pips to abusers (killer-bots) of base mechanics is textbook insult to injury. If survivors must deal with this so regularly then we shouldn't have to lose pips.
Comments
Proxy camping isn't abusing base mechanics, neither is tunnelling, neither is slugging. Things you don't like aren't automatically some form of abuse.
I have just recently made a post about this as well. It is outdated. For both sides too much out of your control leading to depipping meaning you’re getting punished for playing the game. Ranks only serve as a bonus at the end of the month for being a loyal player. People also play more aggressively out of fear of depipping. Removing it would probably relax matches more. But as usual something that most of the community seems to support (removing depipping) is being ignored by the developers. They remain silent.
Why are you calling them killer-bots? Are you pretending that killer players aren't real people?
To be fair, a Killer that proxy-camps and hard tunnels the first person they hook might as well be a bot for how much thought they are using XD
It's the first time I've seen the term used this way though.
I believe OP refers to them as bots because there is no real game play and no chase or anything exciting. It is the same thing over and over.
I agree the pip system needs to be refined. Killers are highly rewarded for doing nothing or doing something equally. It isn't fair. Survivors the same just because they escape and didn't touch a gen all round doesn't mean they should get pipped or high points. The thing that doesn't makes sense is you have a chill game and do everything but get heal, get chased and you lose a pip. Getting tunneled right out of a game or slugged out shouldn't be held against you because some other teammate hid in a locker waiting for the hatch. It needs to be redone. The game has changed for the worse and the numbers show.
Should've been removed the moment rank/grade no longer had any matchmaking purposes.
im tired of losing pips because my stupid team mates don't want to save me. I lose so many pips because I die on my first hook. depiping shouldn't be a thing.
It's nice to know it's not just me... Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Killers are real people. I met one shortly after he had escaped from a castle along with his pet donkey.
I think losing pips is an outdated mechanic and should be removed (for both sides obviously), but I fail to see what it has to do with "killer bots".
There aren't enough in-game actions and rewards to gain a good amount of pips & BPs for 4 survivors (even less so when they're not organised), it's nothing new, it should be changed and it has little to do with how killers play.
I never said I don't like them, you are assuming I don't like them and you're wrong, I completely see there value. What I don't like to be clear is the abuse of them. But more to the point, just because something is 'legal' or 'allowed' doesn't mean it can't be abused.
Camping/Tunneling/Slugging in DBD = Legal & Allowed
However, because a disproportionate about of killers have abused these base mechanics...BHVR has had to implement a camping meter that's recently been added. Same goes for tunneling; last year abused tunneling caused BHVR to implement a base BT mech. They also looked into timed slugging before that and got as far as a PTB because of the abuse; the proof is in the pudding.
So yes...anything can be abused whether or not you like said abused thing(s).
Someone using a game mechanic as it was literally intended at the time is not abusing that mechanic. Yes, mechanics can change over time, they can change for the better, that doesn't mean anyone was abusing anything. They were using a game mechanic in the exact way the developers knew it would be used and in a way that had clearly been exhibited during testing (and that they saw no need to change). Behaviour looking at their own mechanics years later and finding them lacking doesn't mean anyone was "abusing" the previous mechanics, it means that Behaviour looked at their own mechanics years later and found them lacking. You seem to think proxy camping is abusing mechanics, so respectfully, you're clearly a poor judge of what is or isn't abusive.
And yes, they looked into basekit Unbreakable and, guess what? It was utterly appalling, never made live and has since been abandoned. By that logic, Behaviour doesn't see slugging as abusive.
You're obviously not coming into this with an impartial stance. Your definition of a skilled Killer seems to be anyone that placates you by playing in a way that negatively impacts their own experience and potential pip gain, you use dehumanising language to refer to the people that beat you and defy your own made up rules, and you seem to be intentionally confusing "mediocre mechanics used as intended" with abuse of mechanics. Abusing mechanics would be to use them in an unintended way to gain an advantage (think Pinhead standing on his own box - that was never an intended mechanic). The difference between calling it "abuse of mechanics" rather than "mediocre mechanics used as intended" is that you're shifting the blame on to the players rather than the developers. If there's no BT and you get downed immediately off hook, that's not the fault of the Killer, that's not abuse, that's a poorly designed mechanic used as intended.
You clearly know all this, but blaming the developers for their mistakes wouldn't feed into the Us Vs. Them narrative.
Using game mechanics as intented? Uh, no. The game just isn’t well designed and the developers never realized people would play that way. Doesn’t mean they intented for you to camp and tunnel, lol.
It's a game where Survivors are chased and hooked. Behaviour added hooks, they knew there was nothing to stop someone standing close to those hooks, they knew in all likelihood that someone would, at some point, stand close to those hooks. They very likely observed people doing so during the beta tests. They deemed this an acceptable part of gameplay for a long time.
The game features chases, there are four people for the Killer to chase. The developers aren't perfect, but they aren't idiots - they knew a Killer would, at some point, choose to chase someone that was just unhooked. They deemed this an acceptable part of gameplay for a long time, and still continue to do so despite making changes to adjust its effectiveness.
The developers have explicitly stated that proxy camping is fine, they've said tunnelling is a valid tactic. They're not perfect, but with rare exception, they know how their game works and how it is, at any given moment, supposed to work. Their vision changes over time, the game mechanics along with them, but to say they'd be unaware that players would camp or aggressively pursue an objective (something common in all objective-based games), is just silly and insulting.
None of the fault lies with the player here; we, all of us, simply play the game within the confines of the mechanics that people spent thousands of hours designing. And when those mechanics change again because Behaviour feel they no longer fit the direction of the game, we'll continue to play to the mechanics, whatever they may be. This is not an Us. Vs. Them situation, as much as people keep trying to make it that.
I don't think you'll find much objection to removing depipping. I don't care if they make it harder to pip, just get rid of depips.
They never realised how this game turn out developing it and too scared to change anything to its core. That's Dead By Daylight in a nutshell.
You basically just said the same thing twice, friend.
What's obvious is you're making a straw man argument and I will waste no more time with that nonsense.
Even if you had good points to discuss, your belittling and finger pointing sprinkled all over your straw man argument is not only inappropriately personal, but painfully immature and just not how adults should behave when trying to communicate their different point of view. Lastly, it's weird and obsessive that you continue to pretend you know me...please stop, it further discredits your opinion.
Y'see, now I'm interested. I'll ignore your silly accusation of the strawman, because that's not the interesting bit. The interesting bit is that you have 4 posts and I have interacted with you once before now in your entire time here. Once. What are you even on about? Pretending to know you? That I continue to do so? Obsessive? Do you even know what half the words you use at any given time mean?
If you disagree with me, fine - I don't care. If you want to try to establish moral and intellectual superiority in the laziest way possible, still don't care. But don't you ever accuse me of something I haven't done. I don't know you, I've never acted like I do and, after this, I have no desire to know you. You necro'd a topic to climb on your moral high-horse, and that is laughable.
I still make iri 1 every month so I’m not trippin about it.
Depipa should be removed for both sides and maybe double the amount pips you need to get up grades then they really show just play time. Now they so how sweaty you are.
I feel you on that... I do too but it's the principle for me. Tho honestly, if I wasn't de-pipping for boring killer-bots so much I'd probably Iri 1 so much fasting and it wouldn't be much of a challenge. A few peeps here said they should remove it altogether or stop de-dipping on both sides and make it harder to pip...I'm feelin any of those over how it is now. Survivors shouldn't lose pips b/c some killers are lazy.
I definitely understand your point. It can be frustrating to depip, especially in circumstances you can’t help it. I would be completely for taking away depips.
It's pointless to have depips in the game at this point. It's just a pain. Both sides have this issue and on both sides there are very obvious solutions (SWF and specific killers) but really, it's an arbitrary hurdle to make it harder for players to earn their 1M BP.
With a bit of bad luck, both sides get punished for their opponents' play styles. A killer can dominate and depip for survivors killing themselves and survivors can depip because killers camp or go afk. I would very much enjoy not having to switch from Billy to Blight just so I can make it to iri 1 and I would also like not to lose pips because the killer focuses me from the beginning of the match until I die. It's kind of hard to do gens while you are chased by the killer and healing other survivors isn't any easier.
Well said...
At this point I'm on board with that 🤘