So you've brought old dead hard back, but as a "passive" perk now? why?
old dead hard : a free distance perk that works on loops, can't be countered without exhaustion inducing tools, can be activated while injured, only works once per chase
made for this : a free distance perk that works on loops, can't be countered without exhaustion inducing tools, activates while injured, works until they use an exhaustion perks
Like, how? I thought BHVR has learned that it is quite problematic to give survivors free distance at loops, how can you make EVEN WORSE variant of old dead hard?
Comments
It's not free apparently because it requires you to be injured.
Because being injured is a difficult thing to come by, you see.
I'm not saying it's a free advantage(at least not this time), I'm just stating it is a "free" (as in being basically not require anything unique, like window/high ground/"SPRINT"/hitting killer/etc...) distance perk which allows survivors to reach pallet they otherwise can't, exactly like old dead hard.
My post was sarcastic. It's absolutely free.
Ah yes, the good old "me screwing up was actually helping me all along" that only survivors get...
Can you begin to imagine what such a second chance perk would look like on killer's side?
"Y'all pop that gen real good over there eh!?, let me press E real quick to INSTANTLY bring it back to 0% and make the gen counter tick back to 5.... much better! Shame for that BNP tho..."
Bloodlust. And yes Killers use Bloodlust (which does not even require a Perk Slot) for way more than "Infinites".
@topic:
Comparing it to old DH is really a stretch. It is nowhere near that strong.
But I guess it is the next "OP"-Perk which is now the topic for a few weeks until nobody is running it.
Bloodlust is the most useless mecanic ever made!
By the time you get a down with BL Tier 3... at least 6 gens would have poped!
Get me whatever you are smoking, sounds like strong stuff!
You say "it is nowhere near that strong" because...?
It is not limited to once unlike old dead hard, it doesn't takes any skill to make it work, and ultimately can work with exhaustion perks too, It actually does seems to be stronger and consistent than dead hard if we think what it does.
And last line of your comment is entirely your assumption with nothing to back it up, what's the point of that?
Oh boy, Made for this stronger than old DH. Now thats a take.
My last line is basically the same thing that happens ALL THE TIME in this forum. There is the ritual that one Survivor-Perk is OP and this ritual needs to be done every chapter. This time the Perk is at least decent, I have seen worse OP-Perk contenders.
But I am very sure that after a week or so the pickrate will drop. Because the only Exhaustion-Perk where you will really be able to use Made for This is Dead Hard. And I dont think that it is better to use two Perks together than just using the two strongest Exhaustion Perks (Sprint Burst and Lithe) on their own.
(Yes, you can also use Lithe with Made for This. But most of the time the Survivor will be healthy when using Lithe... Which will result in Made for This being a dead Perk most of the time when paired with other Exhaustion Perks than DH)
So.. we are just going to read this post and pretend that years of survivors complaining about every possible playstyle imaginable didn't get ALL the meta killer perks nerfed over the past 2 years?
Yikes.
And yet you don't seems to be explaining how you thinks a perk that gives free distance pretty much no matter what and also works in any loops unlike dead hard isn't strong?
I don't care how you "understand" this forum, I'm just asking why you thought it isn't strong, and I'm not asking for perk combination, I'm asking for this perk alone.
I read way more complaints about Survivor things in this forum. This forum is way more killer-sided than survivor-sided.
And yes, some things were changed. Often enough after the Devs overbuffed them (looking at Eruption, CoB, Overcharge for example). Or simply because the game got easier for Killers over time and some things were not really acceptable anymore.
Or because they were actually unhealthy things which got nerfed. E.g. old Ruin (which wasnt really a nerf, more a Rework which still kept it strong until they nerfed it in 6.1.0 to reduce the pickrate) or old Undying.
The only thing they have in common is that they give distance. However, Made for This is far weaker in giving distance than old DH. And it is certainly not worth to run it over Sprint Burst or Lithe which are both more effective AND easier to use.
Made for This will have a high pickrate for now because people are trying it out and so many call it OP. Then they realize that it is not really that OP and go back to their original Loadouts. It will probably find use for people who did not run Exhaustion-Perks, but I have to say that I am not even sure about running it anymore. (I replaced OTR with Made for This and two times I would have had value out of OTR while being tunneled)
The only thing they need to change with Made for This is its synergy with other Perks, mainly Hope.
If you actually consider about "distance" alone, it really isn't "far weaker" than DH, all you need for 3 meter is something like 25 seconds or so of chase time which really isn't uncommon in any way, and unlike dead hard it isn't even limited to straight line, allowing you to fully juice hitbox difference between killers and survivors.
Sprint burst or lithe only works between loops and not within loops, those perks will not allow survivors to loop one more time longer or reach the windows otherwise can't (while looping), and even then made for this ALSO helps for those run away purpose too.
So yeah "more effective" is objectively wrong, nor "easier to use" because all you need to do with MFT is literally just loop as usual.
I have seen so many players explain to me while CoH on release is in reality not that strong, well they couldn't be more wrong. This is same thing.
I don't tend to jump on hate perk train very often, but this perk is dumb.
Effect of that perk is not healthy at all. It's equivalent of soloQ stomping perk, but focus on weaker killers instead. That's simply never a good thing. That's why Eruption was an issue.
Just that second effect is good, but it also gives 3% movement speed bonus, because why not. So many players keep ignoring second effect and treat it as 3% only while comparing with exhaustion perks.
It will be good combined with Balance Landing, or Death hard.
I am not planning to use any exhaustion perk and just run Iron Will and Resilience.
You have killers that will get absolutely demolished by this perk and there is nothing they can do about it. Mainly Legion and Plague, those will be unplayable until this get changed.
M1 killers overall will get worse and struggle against this.
Main difference is Dead Hard worked mainly on loops, this is going to help just hold W as well.
It's going to be really good with Iron Will when killers are less likely to notice I left loop and this perk gives me even more distance for it.
@fulltonon why does the perk take no skill to use? Is the skill not looping itself?
I would not say its exactly DH level exhaustion. The aspect to talk about with exhaustion is that exhaustion is a guaranteed bail out in a specific situation. Like Sprint burst for example is a near guaranteed bail out when used in deadzone with no pallets or windows. MFT does not bail you out of situations, it makes those situations less likely to occur and strengthen situations where your in the advantage as survivor. its little bit like pre-nerf old Iron will. similar characteristics.
Looping skill is not related to perk at all, no matter what you do you will get benefit all the time.
Those who bad at looping can be slightly less bad, those who decent will be even more decenter, and those who good at it will be really good at it, regardless of situation or skill level, it will always work exactly same.
This tbh.
It's a perk that either save or "reward" a survivor for either making a mistake or playing really good and eventually get hit naturally.
Either way, it's free value. No effort required on the survivor's part, you get it when you need it.
The problematic nature of this perk is that it's free value that completely destroy a large part of the killer line up... again, for free.
People can try to semantic their way out of it... make all the excuses in the world by pointing at other unrelated events...
Those who pretend this is healthy are just blatantly wrong.
When you say "old" Dead Hard, which version do you mean?
If you're referring to the pre-6.1.0 version of the perk, where you got a dash with i-frames, this is an insane comparison. They're not even slightly close to each other, even if MfT is overtuned it can't possibly be anywhere close to the level of broken that perk used to be. Even setting aside pure strength levels, they work completely differently.
If you're referring to the pre-nerf current Dead Hard, eh...? I honestly think that comparison makes even less sense so I don't like to assume, but if that's what you mean, I'd again have to point out that they work completely differently and don't provide the same kind of value.
Actually Killers do have 2nd chance perks. We literally got one in Machine Learning (lose a gen and get a buff). There's also Fire Up (lose gens, do actions faster). Very strong perks, obviously.
really? No seriously, really?
You did not just say that MFT is as good as old dh. how many logical hoops did you need to jump through for that one? Dead hard could increase chasetime by 50%, because it could increaser the hits needed to down the same amount. What does MFT do? Give a 3% speed bonus for just half the chase, so an effect 10% duation boost. If I have a 40s chase while using MFT, it theoretically gets bumped to like 44 or 46. Thats barely a difference. People need to stop malding about this perk already, its not an issue. The only possible issue is haste stacking.
Don't forget a perk that reduces attack cooldown on missed hit, I forgot the name.
I-frame was never been a problem, "just bait it out" is more or less always the counter to it, unless people played some specific killers.
What actually became the reason for nerfs were distance, which MFT DO have.
I'm not sure how you thought literal subtle speedhack will not be as broken as free distance, but I guess that's different PoV or something.
The point is, on top of the dash-for-distance being way stronger than a low level constant speed increase, the i-frames were the cherry on top to ensure you couldn't do anything about it. They press E for distance, they get a ton of distance in a short burst and they're immune to killer powers.
Compare to Made For This, which is strong, I'm not saying otherwise, but there's no immediate eff-you moment. The killer is still more than capable of hitting them at every stage, because the meaningful value they're getting is the ability to turn corners a little faster. One more turn around a loop isn't anywhere close to as OP as the numerous different, genuinely uncounterable things old DH did.
The dash was far more broken than Made For This. It's hard to overstate by how much, old Dead Hard was possibly the most broken thing the game's ever seen. Even assuming everyone's doomposting is accurate, MFT still isn't close. It's an increase in difficulty catching survivors as killers without damaging abilities, not an immediate uncounterable chase-extender against every single killer.
This perk has distance and another effect on top of it too.
I don't think endurance part is weak at all.
Machine Learning is
Kick a Gen,
Kick another Gen
Hope survivors finish the second kicked gen for 30s stealth + 10% haste.
Meanwhile MFT is
Get injured
I cant wait for the Machine nerf due to 10% being quite OP when the three requirements are met.
The Endurance part is barely worth mentioning. It's a short timer on a very specific trigger, it'll come in clutch once every thirty games but otherwise won't be relevant. The Haste is the reason to run it, that's the strong part.
Unbreakable is also rare to use and it's considered one of meta perks.
When survivor is on ground and you are chased, it's usually end for both of you.
This perk helps against it, because you can pick them up and take protection hit.
It's quite decent anti-slugging perk. Then you have free movement on top of it for some reason.
okay let’s tet rid of blood lust then since it’s that bad! got it!
Unironically though rancor and game afoot work very well as 2nd chance killer perks, particularly when combo'd with remember me and NWO
all you need for 3 meter is something like 25 seconds or so of chase time which really isn't uncommon in any way
This right here is why it will never be stronger than old dead hard, or even new dead hard.
By the time the chase lasts 15 seconds, the killer gets bloodlust 1, which hard counters and overcomes the made for this bonus.
By the time you get to 25 seconds, the benefit you had from the perk before bloodlust is almost completely erased entirely.
Which, for the record, the you gain at most 1.8 meters of distance in those 15 seconds. That's cut shorter if the killer is actually good in chase and can mind game to gain even more distance than just hold w and follow survivor.
Bloodlust didn't and doesn't counter dead hard.
lol
buff Bloodlust, that's what's needed.
you named a whole 4 perk combo that is non-meta.
like I swear, why would someone think its good if NOBODY is playing that... its beyond me.
Pallet exists.
There is pretty much no chase where killers can happily stack up bloodlust, they have to use power, break pallet, mind game, all those things will remove/reduce bloodlust.
Not to mention hitbox difference do exists and it will immensely help MFT over dead hard (as dead hard is more or less straight only).
And even then you purposefully ignored the fact bloodlust is there only because of BHVR being so incompetent to make maps they can't stop releasing literal infinite without bloodlust, so this is already a compensation for extremely bad map design.
I want to further support what he said.
Removing Bloodlust would definitely help survivors... even if Bloodlust is highly circumstancial and don't help you in most instances due to it being very poorly designed... it helps sometimes.
that is infinitely more than never.
but that does not mean that bloodlust really has the weight to change the outcome of any match really, it just means it exists in an inadequate form.
Yeah its 4 perks but it really does work well, particularly with skull merchant or teleporting killers
Nobody runs it because they underestimate it or simply don't use it right, or cuz they don't like moris
I disagree.
The planets must align perfectly and you are still very susceptible to gen rushes.
People don't run it because it's bad.
How exactly must the stars align perfectly? You slug the obsession on 1 gen left, wait for the last gen to pop, kill them instantly, go down someone that's at a gate, if they're not obsession, leave them slugged and find another, rinse and repeat
You're just underestimating it like I said
This is especially helpful if you get gen rushed since you don't have to camp anyone and only get 1 kill, you can just kill them, doesn't matter if they were hooked or not, then do it again to someone else
You answered your own question in your first sentence.
"Slug the obsession"... yeah sure, you go run around the map to find that.
Sure if you are lucky and find it 1st encounter... maybe... you ain't out of the wood yet if you face a competent obession that predrops pallets on a pallet town map.
You assume like a million things will go your way in that build.
That's why its bad.
You're telling me you can't find the obsession the ENTIRE game? And even if not you can make a new obsession with game afoot. Its not as hard as you're making it seem
Not even as rare as you make it seem as it works constantly for me
And even if they do loop you from the start, you will eventually down them and almost never can live long enough for 5 gens AND the exit gates without getting downed once, even against serious genrushing teams
You're assuming something is bad without even trying it, based on the sole fact that it isn't meta when the reason it isn't meta is because it's not widely recognized and people do not know how to use it correctly