anti camp problematic or perfect?
First off, obviously facecamping shouldn't be so powerful pre-endgame. Its a cheap and easy way to get hooks and kills. And with the new changes, survivors can easily ignore that strategy by simply hopping off the hook. A healthy idea that makes survivor more fun, while leaving killers who play normally completely fine.
My issue is with the range of the meter, and how survivors affect it.
The meter has a confirmed 16m range, half a typical terror radius. Effectively a 32m diameter circle where the killer cannot be or the surv gets off hook.
For one, small maps will make this system way too strong imo. For example, if you have a 3gen on midwich and down them near the gens, you have to hook them nearby. This goes for all maps, but midwich especially because of weird hook spawns there. So while patrolling that 3gen, the meter will slowly fill and the survivor will hop off. If
The self unhook part feels a bit much to me as well. In actual facecamp scenarios I'm all for it, basement bubba should not get a free W. But combined with the range and issues I've mentioned that could prove to be problematic. I see the thought process here. "What if the timer pauses if the killers too close?" well, then survivors still have to go risk the unhook and possibly get hooked themselves, or leave their teammate to die. "So, they can unhook themselves if facecamped." All fine and dandy except for the range.
If the range goes through floors like reassurance, then killers will get punished for existing. Also, 16m is is large enough that a survivor could lead you to the hook and loop a nearby pallet. You either give up chase or the survivor self unhooks. And if you give up chase, they are for sure getting that unhook. It removes a lot of the risk of being near a hook while chased as survivor, because it now rewards you for looping near them.
Theres a hook in RPD for example. Main hall, if your standing inside the main door then its on your left. The hook in there often spawns with a pallet next to it. Right now, looping it while a surv is hooked is a bad idea because the timer will tick down and someone has to trade while the killers near, or you leave and hope a teammate handles it. With this system, looping that pallet now guarantees an unhook. I am aware that the self unhook meter slows if a survivor is near. But I'd take a guess that the base amount would be ~15s and go up like 15 every survivor nearby. So loop for 30s and that survivor jumps off. Obviously this scenario could never happen depending on how the timer changes based on nearby survivors. But in my opinion, it should just not happen when survivors are near. With this system theres no reason to go for a facecamped hook outside of endgame when you could just do gens and wait for them to unhook themselves. Having it stopped completely would encourage more efficient gameplay, rather than prolonging an unhook. This suggestion would also keep the aforementioned risk of looping near a hook that gets removed with this change, because looping near the hook would remove the system entirely.
The only issue with this system is the range, and possibly timer. I dont want anything misconstrued here, i am ALL FOR THIS IDEA. Camping sucks. Its skilless and provides way too much value for doing so little, kind of like original dead hard. Its stupid it was allowed to run rampant so long. This change would easily solve it for everyone, but its implementation could might end up being very abusable and unfair.
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It’ll probably function like Reassurance with the same restrictions, so fret naught. It’ll be just as useful as that perk. And killers can continue camping to their merry little heart’s content.
I hope it does, reassurance is a very good perk even with all its restrictions. It both counters camping and removes pressure at the click of a button, really good. Hook pressure is good bc it gets 2 of gens, hooked and unhooker. So reassurance gets you 30 seconds of 3 people repairing instead of 2 while coutnering camping. Reassurance is great game design, they really should take a page from its book with these changes.
It’s so good that it’s a rare perk. Like Kinship.
According to nightlight, reassurance has a roughly 3.5% pickrate and kinships got about a 0.5% one. Pickrate doesnt determine value anyways, reassurance isnt as fun to use as other perks so people use it less. Plus reassurance is a kinship that you get to trigger, automatically making it way better. Kinship is way less good because it relies on teammates knwoing you have it, something hard with soloq, and playing around it. Reassurance requires 2 things 1. equip 2. press f. All things triggered by the user, allowing for it to be used in scenarios its needed most instead of relying on teammates to do it for you. Kinship can also only activate on the user, meaning only one survivor can get value. Reassurance can be triggered on all survivors except yourself, with the control completely in the users hands. reassurance is goated.
isn’t nightlight that website people insist isn’t reliable b/c it’s user-reported data?
in any event my point is that Reassurance is hardly worth running for a number of reasons. It isn’t a good anti-camp perk. Really, Kinship is better. And that isn’t good either.
Reassurance is an amazing anti camp perk wdym. 30 seconds for one one button, and if the killer just sits there thats 33% more gen progress. Repairing is the best counter to camping so the fact that reassurance lets you do that even more is really good. It also has unlimited uses, just once per hook which is very reasonable. Otherwise survivors just wouldn't die, regardless of camping.
kinship is absolutely worse for all the reasons I mention. activates on one survivor only, needs a teammate to do something. If you are being camped and that weird grab mindgame is happening then yeah kinship gets you some value, until you realize that survivor is just gonna stand there and try and unhook you instead of doing gens. That 30 seconds slows the camp value but doesnt increase team value at all. Meanwhile reassurance activates on 3 survivors, can being activated whenever you want, doesnt require teamplay (press f, go do gens) and signals to your team that they have reassurance so gens can get done (white glow).
nightlights pretty accurate, they get like 3,000,000 eligible perk appearances every month. its not perfect but its pretty good. WoO has 32% pickrate on nightlight, 32% chance for every survivor. 32% x 4 = 128% chance at least one will appear in a game. Seems accurate to me, I see at least one every match, sometimes two. Same goes for all the other perks on there, especially accurate for pre nerf dh.
We're not going to know how the idea will work in implementation until we actually see it. If the rate of 'escape' gained at 9 - 16m is minimal, it might be a non-issue.
I will add though on small maps if the killer is constantly within the range, survivors likely will be as well, slowing the process.
Additionally, I'm not sure its even that huge a harm. Let's say you are on Midwich and not camping, but because of the floors you end up triggering a survivors ability to get off the hook.
If the survivors even remotely know what they are doing, they almost certainly will have rescued the hooked survivor before the escape meter becomes an issue.
Even if they don't and the survivor does get an escape, it hasn't changed the game that much. Any time the survivors gain by not taking the short run to the hook, they've lost by all that time having a teammate unavailable to do gens.
As for your scenario of hooking a survivor in the midst of a 3 gen might that allow the survivor an easier escape? Potentially, but being BHVR has actively been trying to weaken 3 gen gameplay recently I'm not sure they view that as a bad thing.
Using comms in the game is a cheap and easy way to get all the gens done. Yet killers are forced to deal with and survivors claim that it’s totally fine. How come only one side is allowed to use cheap tactics to win?
Because there is really no way to prevent it, especially without likely losing a lot of the player base.
Also, a killer can use "cheap" tactics in any game, only some games involve players on comms.
That isn't a valid excuse. It isn't right to shaft part of the playerbase in the name of the majority.
It's fine because proxy camping is still gonna be strong which I'm fine with proxy camping I'm just against full on face camping where you ruin the entire game for everyone else and they're forced into the most boring game ever or throwing the game to die because you want a interaction other than m1 the rest of the trial
I agree there’s no way to prevent it. My whole point is that it’s very unfair to killers yet most players accept it and survivors who use it simply tell killers to deal with it.
Given the fact killers have to deal with an incredibly unfair advantage that SWF get, they should be able to play however they want to. Yet here we are yet again nerfing tactics that the devs have said for the past 7 years are fair and legitimate parts of the game.
Sure you do. Any design decision in a video game will make the game more appealing to some players, less appealing to others. Trying to appeal to the majority is a perfectly reasonable. BHVR has to walk a finer line than most as an asymmetrical game, but there is no "true" DbD, just whatever game BHVR designs.
If two things are broken, and you can fix one of them, you should.
And while BHVR has said camping was valid, they've changed their minds. Nothing wrong with that.
And until we see the numbers, we don't know how much they've invalidated camping. Basically they are creating a window between when it is fair to camp and when it becomes abusive. Whether they hit the times right or not we'll see when it gets released.
people don't accept that comms is really good though? Its just harder to change than face camping. You cant nerf swf without nerfing solo q, so you need to buff up to swf then buff killer accordingly. and if you havent noticed, the new hud changes and the leaks lobby hud shows thats exatly what their doing. In a year or two swf will be a lot less strong.
It'll be problematic. Not only does this just straight up punish killers in most scenarios it give survivors even more counters against killer.
The radius is the same for both, but that's just not good because survivors can just stay farther. It's the same thing that has been tried and abused.
The meter will still fill up even if a survivor is nearby. It should go down or pause.
Disagree with you on a couple points. SWF can absolutely be nerfed. There have been plenty of suggestions on this forums for ways to do it. Also, buffing solo q is not going to make SWF weaker. It’s making solo q stronger, which is great (I play a lot of solo q and I love it). However, these changes don’t do anything to make SWF on comms less OP
Lower pick rate doesn't mean a perk is bad. It's just they've usually been outshined by the more selfish perks.
Youre right: Kinship isn’t bad. It’s better than Reassurance.
I mean… no such thing as a perfect solition, especially in an asymm game.