The longer M1 simulator
So I guess holding M1 on a gen forever wasn't enough to BHVR. Now hold M1 on a medkit heal for 24 seconds. Oh, dont forget about the overuse of Sloppy Butcher now. I agree that medkits needed a nerf, but this is a joke having to spend 24-30 seconds healing with a medkit. All the medkits in the past were OP, so keep them how they are now but make them 16 second self heals. Iron Will is trash and so is DH. A killer just tunnels and camps to prevent all Dead Hards. Healing is more necessary than ever now without DH. Stealth killers and Spirits are out in full force knowing that the easy hit on an injured survivor is guaranteed.
Alright, let's hear all the git gud nonsense rather than say something worthwhile.
Comments
*pokes my head in the door for the second time to see if there is any constructive dialogue*
I don't even bother and just come to see the comments these days.
Survivors have many perks that help them heal each other faster. You are simply going to need to work more as a team if you want to stay healthy.
The best part is that the 2 things that made medkits actually busted aka. Syringe and Styptic, were NOT nerfed and are now comparatively even stronger than the rest. It is truly astonishing how half the patches manage to "fix" the things that aren't broken and leave the actual problematic stuff unaddressed. Average survivors are going to get very hurt by this nerf while those who know what they're doing will equip these addons 24/7.
agree with the most, but spirit isnt the hardest killer. Spirit is very very easy to play. Myers is harder than Spirit. Spirit is the killer you play if just kill them all, without any skill needed. Just turn your volume to 100% put on some strong perks and Addons and you win 90% of your matches. (10% cause of maps with to many pallets).
Syringe used to heal a dying survivor to healthy in half a second. Styptic heal an injured to healthy in half a second. So yes, they were nerfed once.
Syringe now self healing without do the healing action, except the self healing from 16sec to 24sec, which also affect Syringe that takes 24sec to auto heal, not 16sec. So yes, its nerfed twice.
The Medkit nerf and CoH nerf were both warranted.
I hate to break it to you but 90% of survivor gameplay is holding m1, doing gens,healing,unhooking,cleansing,opening chest survivor gameplay is boring in general and could use some kind of new mechanic or gameplay element(not a perk) that doesn't involve just hold m1 tell bar fills.
Have you done any SM art? I would love to see your take on her
Having to hold m1 for longer is the price of being able to have long meaningfull chases.
How long you are able to run a killer and how long you have to hold m1 to get stuff done sadly are correlated.
If you want to hold m1 for less time to get the same amount done then in order for killers to still have a chance they would need to be more overbearing in chase leading to shorter chase times.
It's a lose lose. Either it's less of the boring stuff and also less of the excitting stuff or vice versa
It was necessary. Self-healing had been out of control for a long time and being able to self-heal at normal speed was too efficient and too easy. Medkits are more balanced now.
They were nerfed, Styptics were reduced from 8 seconds to 5 seconds and Syringes are slower because the self-heal debuff from the medkit itself affects it.
Actually, healing with a medkit is holding M2 ;)
Syringe taking 24 sec instead of 16 sec is irrelevant as you can do something else in the meantime, so you're not losing any efficiency. Meanwhile all medkits have had their efficiency nerfed by 50%. So comparatively, the syringe is now 1.5x more interesting than before. BHVR thought "Let's multiply all the numbers in the description by 1.5x and call it a day", unlucky that's not how math works.
Both nerfs are paper nerfs that show a lack of understanding of what makes these add-ons strong, they change the number that is written in the text box, but will do very little in practice.
The Syringe is not slower - even though the description says a number went from 16 to 24 sec, that number is not the healing speed. In practice this addon allows you to heal in 1 sec with 1 charge. But this heal is now delayed by 24 sec instead of 16 sec, which is not a huge downside, as it is not very hard to last for 24 sec once per game, even in chase. I've played ~20 matches with Syringe since the patch dropped and I never got hit during the 24 sec, although it came very close a few times, I was always healed mid-chase just a few sec before the killer hit me.
Styptic nerf has the same problem. In practice, it does not matter whether it's 5 or 8 seconds. Even if the killer sees you using it, 5 sec is still enough time to reach another pallet. Imagine if old dead hard lasted 5 seconds.
You find them at 15sec mid syringe healing?
The time-efficiency disparity between prior med-kit self-heals and altruistic heals was way too large. (In addition to charges being really easy to stack).
If you want fast self-heals, invest in them with addons and Perks or get healed by another Survivor, not just bringing a single item that allows self-heal anywhere that you can (could) leverage charge bloat with too.
Medkit self heals even with sloppy are still less than old self care which was 32 seconds without sloppy and still less than altruistic heals which is 16x2. Sorry if ur not a one man army anymore and have to play as a team as survivor is intended.
To be fair, every time anyone in the community suggests secondary objectives for survivors so they have something to do besides hold on to a gen or heal, some of the louder survivor mains flip out at the idea
As a Spirit main, we get to haunt you guys while looking caked up
Now this is the type of comment I like to see. Instead of immediately saying wrong, you're choosing to challenge a very biased person. Props to you
That's 8 second more risk that the killer can find and down you before the syringe did it's job. I'd hardly call that irrelevant.
With that logic a syringe taking 90 seconds to heal you would also be a irrelevant nerf cause you can do something else in the meantime. I don't think it would see much play if it was nerfed like that
I think the Devs failed to take in to account the variation in killers, their strengths/weaknesses and perks that can be used to make the nerfs much worse than intended.
Weaker killer are tiny bit better now, but OP killers paired with OP add-ons running perks like sloppy, those killers are much stronger. It was either overlooked or they just didn't give a damn. My guess is the latter, seen as they've left broken perks in the game for weeks, even after clarifying that they knew they were bugged.
I don't think it's gonna get better any time soon, but i live in hope.
Can't equip them every game otherwise you run out of them eventually. I could run them personally like 200 games but what after that? I don't see reason why average player could not use them as often in their games. They just run out of them sooner if they don't have good supply. And the healing speed was nerfed from syringe so it takes lot longer so it's lot harder to heal succesfully mid chase.
Veterans have stockpiles of them because with previous Prestige system it used to be easier to acquire these add-ons.
And it is extremely poor design to have an add-on that carries survivors but to still consider it balanced just because they can only play with it for half of the games.
Effects are not a linear function of the cause at all. If it takes 30 sec for the killer to hit you in chase, then it doesn't matter whether the addon heals you after 18 or 24 sec, in both cases, you'll be healed mid-chase, and the nerf is "irrelevant" (literally no impact - it didn't impact the course of the game at all). I don't know what is the average chase time, but from practice, I can tell you I used the new syringe 15-20 games and got hit 0 times, so it is way higher than 24 sec.
Now if the addon was nerfed to 30-40 sec then it would suddenly become a significant nerf. As said, because the effects are not linear.
And don't forget, you are not forced to use the add-on in chase. You can use it while on a gen and it wll save you 24 seconds that you would normally spend healing, ie. it saves about as much as a green toolbox + BNP, just for ONE ADDON.
My brother in christ 70% of the reason why medkits were op was because of time efficiency. The nerf took that away and its better than what it could be.
Not just within the roster, but player skill in general. This patch kind of rearranged the furniture with nerfs on both sides, but players who routinely get stuck on extended chases are still going to get stuck on those chases, and killer players who didn't have that issue before won't have it now. The patch didn't help relatively less skilled killer players all that much and it did nothing to make good killer players less oppressive. It's vastly easier to snowball games now that self-healing is nerfed.
You have to create time as the killer since you have barely any time before all gens can be completed. Until there's an actual cap that prevents nutty gen speeds and/or general map safety is not overabundant like it is now, other things that help the killer create time have to remain unspoiled otherwise gens fly and playing killer turns into a fever dream with barely any contest involved.
All this goes double for M1 killers with no means of mobility.
And if it takes 20 seconds for the killer to hit you in chase the difference between 18 and 24 seconds suddenly is significant.
If you add random numbers you can always invent scenarios where nerfs don't matter.
If a gen at 25% is affected by ruin and isn't touched for a minute and half then the ruin nerf also is insignificant
Most people also can't look into the future. There are killers you can face who will be able to go from you being save on a gen to getting hit in chase in less then 24 seconds. And it's more likely then in 16 seconds
Fact is that there is 8 more seconds that risk the syringe being a addon that does nothing. That's 50% more then before. Doesn't mean it's weak but there is no denying it's weaker
It's slightly weaker than pre-patch, while other add-ons are much weaker than pre-patch. So it is comparatively stronger than other add-ons now.
Before, it saved you 16 seconds of time. Now, it saves 24 seconds. Veteran players have stockpiles of these add-ons, expect to see them used 24/7 at high MMR.
And there was a reason why only new players used the 32 second self care. It was a meme perk that got u laughed at for using it. 30 seconds basically is the old self care. If u actually play this game, then u know very well that teams are inconsistent and unreliable. If BHVR wanted better teams, they would have voice chat in the game and not make u find a Discord.
So I'm biased because I'm saying keep all the changes in the game the same, except change 1? It's not biased to know that starting a chase healthy and starting a chase, out of position and injured, is bad for every survivor and boring to every killer that wants more than just a 4K. The chases are what make the game fun. Not counting u of course, I'm sure your the best looper regardless.
Medkits were not overpowered at 16 second heals. They were overpowered with triple heals and emergency medkit heals with add-ons that heal u in 8 seconds. DH was not just a hit "E key" either. The timing, also ping, were very important. Go copy another statement said on YouTube or by a streamer and then use their opinions again.
We all know medkits were OP. All I'm saying is keep every change the same, but stay at 16 seconds. That would mean the purple, green, yellow and brown medkits are changed to not have triple heals and not have 8 second heals. That makes medkits not OP. U can't count on survivors to heal u because they are too busy DC'ing. I'm left in a shorthanded game and want to make the best of it by healing myself before the killer returns so I can have a fun chase and try not to depip because of the quitters.
"Holding M1 forever..." Is that why games don't go longer than 5 minutes (without items btw)?
I love how you want to strawman argue me while being biased with that 4k comment regarding killers and trying to come for me over looping. Instead of attacking like a loser, how about not complain to the forums trying to gain sympathy over playing the video game
A 16 second self-heal was twice as efficient as being healed by a teammate, before even beginning to factor in however long it takes you to find and reach a teammate. Even a brown medkit did this and was one of the best items you could have barring even stronger medkits.
That sounds pretty overpowered to me and green medkits along with medkits that had enough charges for multiple heals just made that even stronger. Pretty much every aspect of medkits was overpowered with the only exception being the altruistic healing speed bonuses.
dont hold m1 with the killer behind you and dont hold m1 on a hook or while in chase you are just being negative this game is fun most perks are unique and can go well together and all killers are different
The only medkit change I'd be for would be adding a little more charges for each (with slightly more for each rarity).
The healing speed was way too fast before (not including COH). CoH now allows you to heal in 8 seconds without extra perks. That's too fast imo.
Desperate measures, botany knowledge, renewal, inner healing...
Or more charges for higher rarity med kits at least for purple one they are rare anyway.
Nope Self Care was nerfed because it was one of the most used perks and behaviour even stated it was used more at high mmr.
Nope
so the final verdict is that the medkit update sucked and shouldn't have existed, more and more I see the survivors' items getting worse and worse or simply useless (broken key, just take this item away, no one uses it)
Survivor gameplay outside of chases has pretty much always been just hold m1. If you hate it that much then play killer 👨🎤
There's a reason survivor items are getting nerfed over time ya know
Nah, Medkit nerf was one of the best things to happen in a long while.