Why deleting SWF will never work
So, today there's a lot of SWF threads, since there's basically nothing else to discuss and I want to show you one simple example of deleting the partying functionality from the game and did it help at all.
Before I start, I'll say that I have ~1100 hrs in the game and play Killer and survivour (both solo and SWF) equally.
Alright, let's start!
I'll tell you a story about a game called Armello. This is some sort of Game of Thrones for 4 players. This game had an issue with teamers, who played in a group of 3vs1 when the game was intended to be played 1vs1vs1vs1. So, the developers just removed an ability to play with friends in public matches. People, who only played with friends for sun left immediately, since no one wants to play with 1 or 2 bots. But the actual toxic players remained and still do the thing survivours in DbD did before SWF was introduced: dodged the lobby until they're matched with friends (which is pretty easy with the small pleyerbase of that game).
So, if you remove SWF from DbD something similar will happen: a LOT of players, who just played SWF to play with friends wil quit the game, while the most toxic ones will remain and will be able to join their friends because of the lessened survivour amount. Not to mention that such a decision will increase queue times by a lot which most of the other playes won't like too (though, there really are special people who like to spend 30 minutes of their life waiting for a 10 minute game #fun)
Not to mention that Survivours are kind of a majority of this game and this decision would considerably lessen devs' income, which is also why SWF will never be removed (LOL, so stop whining already).
Comments
The communication and wall hacks was an exact match. As in they both give their respective users the same advantage. You know where the Killer is and what he is doing , just like he knows where you are and what you are doing.
The comparison wasn't an example of cheating, it was just an example of the type of advantage that survivors are gaining while using communication.
One does not equal the other in any way shape or form and all you killers whining about it being cheating refuse to accept actual facts. The devs have already said it's not cheating so get over yourselves.
When they whitelist Discord, its not cheating, until then. Yep it is.
And comms gives the survivors the ability to relay the exact location and current activity of the Killer. And Wall Hacks gives the exact location and activity of the survivors. Seems pretty darn even to me, but you are looking to argue so yeah they are not anything alike.
Because communications also gives away totem placements, and trap locations, so yeah you are right communications is not like wall hacks, its worse.
All cool
But the devs have stated it's not cheating so your arguments are still invalid like all the others that claim using voice is cheating. One is modifying game files directly and or modifying the memory while the other does neither. When the devs say using voice is cheating you can call it cheating, but until then it's not.
From the description of a PERMA BAN offense.
Any third party software that is not whitelisted and affords an advantage over another player.
This is Discord dead on. If Discord is cool, then whitelist it, it'll take one email to EAC to have it added to the list. And I'll shut up about it.
So by BHVR's own documents, its cheating my man. It would be SO easy for BHVR to pull the trigger and whitelist Discord, ask yourself why they don't.
Devs have stated it's not cheating and the fact you can't accept the fact they don't care to change the parma doc or whitelist it is on you. It doesn't matter what you say or how you try and word it or twist it. It's not cheating because the devs have said it isn't cheating.
When they says it's cheating and only when they say it's cheating will it be cheating an because they've said it isn't cheating you'll keep on using that a sa crutch excuse. Bt go ahead and keep on using that lame excuse for yours and the other killers that refuse to adapt or change in any way shape or form.
And you keep using that advantage over other players, cause that is legit. Killers play by the rules designed into their actual game, and you use third party software to CHEAT.
And if they gave Killers an option to play your version of legit or skip it, they would always skip it because when it boils down, its not fair.
Blah blah blah , adapt, I'll dodge everything that looks fishy. I don't have a lot of time to play. I'm sure as hell not going to let opponents that are using other software to make my game less fun in my lobbies.
You want to pray that someone doesn't come up with a utility that can rat out SWF groups, because if that ever lands....your version of legit is so gone.
Only the lactose intolerant should have parmabans.
You can keep on whining all you want IT'S NOT CHEATING the devs have said it, it's not listed as a cheating program and nothing you say will change that fact. I could care less if someone knows it's a swf group or not you just want to use that as an excuse.
As the other killer mains on here have said, they don't have a problem and they adapt. The only thing doing is proving what the other killers mains and the survivors mains are saying. You're just looking for excuses because you refuse to adapt and get better.
You want to dodge lobbies go ahead and keep doing that, it won't change anything all except prove what's been said. If someone comes up with a software to rat out swf wouldn't that amount to cheating as you call it? Since the devs have said swf isn't cheating either yet you'd be fine with a rat out software.
So you just proved you're a total and complete whiny hypocrite since you'd be fine with someone using a hacking program to detect swf groups. Since the only way to do that is to scan the games memory and or program illegitimately which is in fact hacking aka cheating.
Dont need to have a programm> @fcc2014 said:
Beyonce's I am a Survivor for Claudette i think was better.
How much friggen fun this game could be with some tweaks. Make killers less friggen frustrating please.
I always hear jaws music playing in my head when aMyers starts stalking and if I turn and it's me he's behind it gets louder and faster lol. If you could add sound effects like say from mortal Kombat for Mori's that'd be sweet. Anything along those lines would make it so much funner for both sides.
Devs said on stream that roughly 50% of all survivor player join the game via the SWF function. Including those that join via SWF but play solo (just to avoid lobby bugs or out of habit).
And I told that already, but here we go again, even IF half of them -which I consider a pretty high calculation- would stop playing DBD completely, we would only lose 25% of the current survivor playerbase.
But we would also lose the most toxic part of the community and can expect to gain a lot of player coming back to DBD, when it got better balanced that way and for the same reason it would attract more new player (better balance, less toxic).That would make up easy for the lost player.
lolz that typo though
I never said that I would be fine with it, I used it as an example of Killers tolerance for the comms advantage. If it was as easy as running a third party software to remove that advantage. They would use it. And you wouldn't have a leg to stand on to complain. Since you would also be using a third party software to get that advantage in the first place. And who said the magical piece of software would touch game files? You immediately decided it would be cheating, even though it might have only been doing some network checking.
A while back some Russian players figured out how to use an application to monitor their net traffic, and were dc'ing SWF members upon load in. This piece of software didn't touch any files of the game , it only monitored traffic on their own machine, which is perfectly legal. And then upon load up they'd kill a connection.
Shady as hell, and SWF groups lost their minds. I do not condone that either, but it is an example of being able to rid ourselves of SWF on another level.
I don't even play much anymore, and when I do play its usually Survivor, and yeah I even use SWF with comms. The only difference between you and me , is I know its a scummy thing to do. But if it were removed I wouldn't miss it because after all in my eyes its not fair.
You on the other hand seem to think that its fine and dandy to take a step over the Killers and they should just learn to play better to overcome the advantage you have. Yet when I mention things that would be even in scope to effect the survivor side you lose your mind.
Who's the hypocrite? To you some things are fine for the survivor side, and not for the Killer side even though they would have the same effect.
And again if BHVR would send one simple email to EAC and tell them to go ahead and Whitelist Discord, and confusion would be finished. We would have a definitive answer. How hard is one email to send?
You and I can go back and forth. You say that BHVR has said its not cheating. And you are right, I seem to recall someone maybe a mod or something saying that it is not cheating, maybe even on the streams?
But what are they supposed to say? It is cheating, and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it! What kind of a statement would that be for a developer to say about their product? It reeks of ineptitude. The total lack of control over voice capabilities FORCES them to say its not cheating or risk looking like dolts.
But I say that if they were truly 100% behind survivors using comms, then they would have gone ahead and whitelisted Discord. I tend to believe that they do not whitelist Discord because if it ever becomes possible for EAC to detect and act upon comms. It will become something that BHVR would want to eliminate from their game.
I might be wrong, I understand that. I also see the blatant advantage and know its not fair, to just tell Killers to get better to overcome it.
And any survivor should know that sure SWF is fun and comms makes the game a breeze. But that is coming at the expense of average players fun. Killers are now forced to become above average, and not everyone has that in them. So I guess they just have to accept the trouncing, or switch sides, which is bad for everyone.
One it bloats the survivor side, and two it reduces Killer population making que times rise. For every Killer that switches sides we need 2 killers to start playing in order to make up the lost ground.
Thanks for the fancy picture, but I feel far from owned.
All of my points are related to keeping the game balanced for both our SWF groups and our Killers. Where as your side is all about Survivors keeping their massive advantage and Killers just eating a crap sandwich and adapting. I'm glad to see you are willing to compromise to make things better for the game as a whole.
@Outland While you may not have said you agree with it, you implied you'd be okay with a hack.
Unless and until the devs call it cheating it won't be cheating that's the end all and be all of voice and swf.
As far as wanting balance we can all agree on that and that overall killers need more. I've posted many suggesting on how to buff killers versus swf while not nuking the solo queue players. Most of the suggestions that I've seen from those asking for opt outs and or buffs versus swf would be broken towards solo players.
I play swf to have fun and laugh and cringe when we do good and bad as do my friends. If we get outplayed we congratulate the killer if we do the outplay we still say gg and talk about times we almost got caught. Most groups are like that, it's the fringes that cause the most issue.
My side isn't about keeping an advantage but finding a common ground that most of both sides can agree too. Your problem and a big chunk of the rest of you is you lumo everyone into the same group and use the same insults etc.
I want killers to be more powerful but I also don't want them to be so powerful they insta gib pretty much every rank group. That's especially true for the low ranks where high rank killers after reset take out their frustration and be jerks to newbies thereby making some of said newbies toxic at higher ranks.
When I'm playing at low ranks after a reset and I run into brand new or inexperienced players i try and teach them how to play better. I don't camp ever, I punish the bad mistakes but try and let them learn from it. I'll still down and hook them of course. I've been complimented after most of my games for being cool and not being a jerk.
On occasion I've run into more experienced players who I played against and who remembered me from 2 seasons ago and they were thankful for howe i played. I've even played with some on survivor side and met some cool people that I know play swf with on occasion.
I believe that if the opt out people stop with the histrionics and the insults and post pro's and cons of their ideas they'll find a much more receptive audience.
Read the below where I break a lot of conversations down and go through both pro's and cons and how to mitigate if possible any problems.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/9568/some-thoughts-on-swf-based-upon-various-posts-and-a-swf-idea#latest
Now this post I like, good points and counter points, as well as showing you understand that the Killer is currently getting a short stick. And that changes are needed. I totally agree with you on these points.
What gets my back up in these conversations, is the "WELL THIS IS THE WAY IT IS, GET GUD AND ADAPT" And then the conversation boils down to the basics about the absolute cause of the imbalances. (You and I have been over them so we'll leave that dog lie)
Here's hoping they can balance the game somehow so that all sides are happy.
You're making the assumptions and you r making them from a biased POV.
Oh I agree and like I said if we can get past the histrionics on both sides and debate the pro's and the cons and come to some middle ground. We'd be more likely to get the devs attention and perhaps their input. How do you balance one side that so that the other side isn't feeling castrated so to speak? Both sides need to give and take for this to work out.
True, I'd be more in favor of nerfing/reworking parts of SWF so there would be something to offset the advantage gained from comms.