So apparently looping is an exploit now?

RakimSockem

......that's it I guess.

Just saw someone say this in another thread and I know I shouldn't take half the people on here seriously but...... huh?

What.... exactly should survivors be doing? Running straight lines from pallet to pallet, slamming them and moving on? That MAY keep you alive for 2-3 gens if you're lucky but then everyone who gets chased after that is dying in 30 seconds or less.

Are we really throwing around the word "exploit" for people who don't run in straight lines?

jeridan

It's fine, keep making survivor less fun because "balance" and the lobby wait times will only get worse than they have. Stop expecting to win every game and just have fun ffs.

RakimSockem

@SovererignKing said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/639101#Comment_639101

1. Fun is subjective. Many Survivors including myself don't find being chased the most fun. Myself personally, I like crouching and hiding in obscure spots and the Killer being close but not finding. Nothing is more exciting to me than holding my breath IRL cause i'm so tense the Killer may find me. I say it was a lie, because most Survivors who did say that, were simply trying to protect the new Looping exploit after they lost true Infinites. Most Survivors DIDN'T say that until that point and had a "OMG WHY ME?! WHY WAS I FOUND FIRST?!" BAck when Stealth was a the meta.
2. Bloodlust was a band aid to try to fix Looping, which didn't work. Still doesn't work to this day. By the time you catch up with Bloodlust, you have already lost the chase (and probably the whole game) by letting it drag on that long.
3. Hitboxes are not broken against Survivors. That's latency, most Survivors cry foul at hit boxes cause they want something to blame.
4. I said "for any decent amount of time." Double Blade Legion was around for a paltry amount of time compared to most of the Survivor exploits. Same with Moonwalking Legion. I also love when Bias Survivors like yourself don't realize that Survivors can body block the hook prompt too. Though "ITZ AN EXPLOIT!!!!1111" when Killers do it, but not an exploit when Survivors do the EXACT SAME thing. The developers should have made the hooks omni-directional for both sides to be fair, but can't fix TOO many Survivor exploits or they review bomb the game and cry and whine.
5. Sure, lets that the developers stats to heart. You know, the ones that count Disconnects as Kills. The stats that include Survivors who decide to Suicide at the endgame cause of greed. JUST CAN'T leave that one poor dude that got caught at the end to die. Gotta run back in and turn an easy 3 man escape into 3k or 4k. Really nice job to balance a game based on Survivors doing something TOTALLY optional they DON'T have to do just because they are greedy for points. Want stats that are true? Don't count disconnects as Kills, and show how many are alive/dead after the 5 Gens are done. Not post match. NEVER balance a game based on players doing something optional they don't have to do.

Now then, maybe you shouldn't be so ignorant and bias so you can see things for what they really are. This game is riddled covered up mistakes by the developers and band aid tools to try to fix what is blatantly broken. All in order to appease the majority player base.

And back to you:

1. Props to you for having fun hiding. I'm sure you and all the useless Blendettes who hide in corners while the rest of the team tries to get things done are happy crouch walking around the map for 6 minutes. Most of us enjoy actually interacting and being chased by the killer instead. To each their own I guess.
2. Bloodlust certainly DOES work and it's absolutely ridiculous and false for you to claim it doesn't.
3. Latency is only half the issue, but hitboxes are definitely wonky as hell. But I guess we'll have to wait until dedicated servers get released to further prove just how bad the hitboxes actually are.
4. You're just talking out your backside here because you're putting words in my mouth. I was talking about how before hooks were changed where you could unhook from any direction, a killer could literally stand in front of the hook and stop anyone from unhooking them. That is not REMOTELY the same as a survivor body blocking a hook because they can be hit and downed. Huge difference.
5. I never said the stats were 100% accurate and all telling. I said if the game was as unbalanced as you claim it to be, survivors would have really high escape rates and it would reflect in reality. Which it doesn't.
6. A lie I didn't address in your original comment but there are no massive amount of insta heals or keys. Stop making things up. Moris come up in bloodwebs more than both of those things.

From reading your original comment, I can tell you have an extreme prejudice against survivor mains and paint them out to be a bunch of whiny entitled brats looking for easy games, so I'm just going to immediately assume everything you say comes from that viewpoint. But I will quote you on this since you like to call other people ignorant and biased while displaying that yourself:

"Now then, maybe you shouldn't be so ignorant and bias so you can see things for what they really are."

Johnny_XMan

Hi Looping meet Bloodlust.

KillermainBTWm8

For those complaining about looping because of the collision change long ago tell me how it would make sense for a survivor to have the collision the size of one of the tall killers?

Akuma

looping means

the killer has a distance to you and he needs some seconds to catch you up. So you run around a pallet spawn until the killer is right behind you. You are forced to throw the pallet or vault a window to get sth between yo uand the killer

so no

it's not an exploit

most of the maps arent very good designed so it becomes very strong at some trials and you as a killer get forced to just break the pallet because of the lack of counterplay.

With the badham map rework the devs started reworking all maps so that theres is way more room for mindgames so a pallet spawns isnt a safe hood for free anymore.

So yea

it's very strong at some points but it's njot an exploit. And the devs are working on it (((way to slow)))

oh yea and

if more and more maps work like badham, bloodlust becomes a huge problem^^ i mean if you win the mindgames you win right? And if the killer doesnt he loses right?

Not so yet, after a while the killer speed up through bloodlust, so he catches you up and thats it.

but thats a future problem

for now, the killer side has to deal with many safe pallets.

RakimSockem

ALSO, for people saying looping wasn't a big thing or was non-existent in the original release of the game, do you know what they had instead:

TWICE THE NUMBER OF PALLETS lol

So yeah, maybe looping became a thing because pallets were removed and survivors had to find another way to survive I guess? Idk, maybe I'm talking crazy

RakimSockem

And once again, because not one person has provided a counter-argument to this point yet:

If you truly believe that looping is an exploit and is something that either needs to be removed or nerfed because it was not originally intended by the devs, I would like to see that same energy poured into Stain Manipulation (i.e. moonwalking during loops to hide your stain), face camping (not an intended mechanic but still a strategy that was picked up), etc.

Orion

Time for a history lesson.

Looping started out as an exploit. The devs themselves called it that. It's possible primarily due to two factors:

• The difference in acceleration between survivors and killers relative to their top speed. Simply put, survivors reach their top speed much faster than killers, which is why they can turn on a dime without losing much speed.
• The difference in hitboxes. This is a minor factor compared to the previous one, but still relevant.

However, due to survivor lobbying, it was hastily removed from the "exploit" category and into "game mechanic" category. Now it's the only thing many survivors know how to do, so the idea that it was once considered an exploit seems absurd to them.

RakimSockem

@Orion said:

Time for a history lesson.

Looping started out as an exploit. The devs themselves called it that. It's possible primarily due to two factors:

• The difference in acceleration between survivors and killers relative to their top speed. Simply put, survivors reach their top speed much faster than killers, which is why they can turn on a dime without losing much speed.
• The difference in hitboxes. This is a minor factor compared to the previous one, but still relevant.

However, due to survivor lobbying, it was hastily removed from the "exploit" category and into "game mechanic" category. Now it's the only thing many survivors know how to do, so the idea that it was once considered an exploit seems absurd to them.

Just to clarify because I'm confused on one of your points:

Why does it matter that survivors reach their top speed before killers reach their top bloodlusted speed? Isn't killer speed at base already faster than survivors top speed regardless (except for Nurse and not including Sprint Burst)?

Weederick

@Orion said:

Time for a history lesson.

Looping started out as an exploit. The devs themselves called it that. It's possible primarily due to two factors:

• The difference in acceleration between survivors and killers relative to their top speed. Simply put, survivors reach their top speed much faster than killers, which is why they can turn on a dime without losing much speed.
• The difference in hitboxes. This is a minor factor compared to the previous one, but still relevant.

However, due to survivor lobbying, it was hastily removed from the "exploit" category and into "game mechanic" category. Now it's the only thing many survivors know how to do, so the idea that it was once considered an exploit seems absurd to them.

Looping did not start as an exploit. It started out as actually playing the game as it was intended by using pallets and windows to create distance, instead of the allwinning, everpresent infinites.

I also did the math on hitbox differences when they released collision numbers and its an average speed increase from 100% to 101% - 101,5%. Barely noticeable. The acceleration difference can be counteracted by holding W and turning with the mouse smoothly instead of walking sideways and then turning the corner with forward for example.

And before 1.1 and 1.4 you could loop way, way easier than today, since there were twice as many pallets, more windows and all the vaulting mechanics were a lot faster and not entityblocked.

Devs never called it an exploit. I played since release and survivors already palletlooped at high ranks. It didnt "start" sometime, There was just no reason to palletloop if you wanted to abuse infinites. Not many people wanted to actually play the game back then, it was infinite or lose for most. Then survivors got more skilled with the tiles over time

joker7997

The problem is if someone is an excellent looper, there is no fast counterplay for most killers. Survivors abuse this, because they are jackasses who just want to win at all costs. This makes killers pissed off jackasses that just want to win at all costs. The toxicity in this game is unreal. I see it from both ends. I far more empathize with killers, because the amount of toxic ahole survivors is sickening. Teabagging Everytime they drop a pallet, clicking flashlights. F off. Very satisfying to kill.

GrootDude

@Orion said:

Time for a history lesson.

Looping started out as an exploit. The devs themselves called it that. It's possible primarily due to two factors:

• The difference in acceleration between survivors and killers relative to their top speed. Simply put, survivors reach their top speed much faster than killers, which is why they can turn on a dime without losing much speed.
• The difference in hitboxes. This is a minor factor compared to the previous one, but still relevant.

However, due to survivor lobbying, it was hastily removed from the "exploit" category and into "game mechanic" category. Now it's the only thing many survivors know how to do, so the idea that it was once considered an exploit seems absurd to them.

I like how you say most survivors only know how to loop, that just isn’t true. If people only knew how to loop then people wouldn’t go immersed while HG or corrupt Intervention was up, people wouldn’t go immersed when someone dcs or you use a mori and people would never tactically save.

Every good looper I see can be just as stealthy so please, don’t talk about things you know nothing about.

ajbustetter

I've never seen anything to negative about looping. I always figured if i let myself get looped its my fault like how could i not recognize this guy/girl is leading me on a merry chase through the woods and crud those gens are getting done probably should do something about that but naw I really want this down.

I get how painful the looping is (yes I do it to when I'm playing survivor and have had it done to me as killer) but an exploit is by definition vague. Yeah sure looping is an exploit but many things by that definition could be considered such. This is just part of the game and I don't feel looping should be removed maybe tweak the three loops that were mentioned earlier(I don't remember which)

PickCollins

@RakimSockem said:

Also, exploits are typically things that need to be addressed/removed from a game. If you're suggesting removing looping, what do you want survivors to do exactly?

Run in a straight line, obviously

katoptris

In the killer rule book you can't loop around a pallet you need to run in a straight line

martin27

I'm not a huge fan of looping but i'll deal with it, my biggest problem is how much the devs leaned into it considering how OP it can be against more then half of the killer roster.

SovererignKing

@RakimSockem said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/639151#Comment_639151

And back to you:

1. Props to you for having fun hiding. I'm sure you and all the useless Blendettes who hide in corners while the rest of the team tries to get things done are happy crouch walking around the map for 6 minutes. Most of us enjoy actually interacting and being chased by the killer instead. To each their own I guess.
2. Bloodlust certainly DOES work and it's absolutely ridiculous and false for you to claim it doesn't.
3. Latency is only half the issue, but hitboxes are definitely wonky as hell. But I guess we'll have to wait until dedicated servers get released to further prove just how bad the hitboxes actually are.
4. You're just talking out your backside here because you're putting words in my mouth. I was talking about how before hooks were changed where you could unhook from any direction, a killer could literally stand in front of the hook and stop anyone from unhooking them. That is not REMOTELY the same as a survivor body blocking a hook because they can be hit and downed. Huge difference.
5. I never said the stats were 100% accurate and all telling. I said if the game was as unbalanced as you claim it to be, survivors would have really high escape rates and it would reflect in reality. Which it doesn't.
6. A lie I didn't address in your original comment but there are no massive amount of insta heals or keys. Stop making things up. Moris come up in bloodwebs more than both of those things.

From reading your original comment, I can tell you have an extreme prejudice against survivor mains and paint them out to be a bunch of whiny entitled brats looking for easy games, so I'm just going to immediately assume everything you say comes from that viewpoint. But I will quote you on this since you like to call other people ignorant and biased while displaying that yourself:

"Now then, maybe you shouldn't be so ignorant and bias so you can see things for what they really are."

1. Just as usual. Call everyone who doesn't Loop all game a "useless Blendette". I loop too as well as Hide, difference is at least I'm aware of how powerful it is and don't try to stubbornly say it's fine and balanced.
2. No, Bloodlust does NOT work. By the time you get Bloodlst to help you, you've already lost the chase. you've spent too much time chasing a Survivor. Though i'm sure someone who never plays Killer has no idea about that.
3. Sure thing. Always find every excuse in the book as to why you got hit you can. It's never your fault you got smacked.
4. You're bias prevents you from seeing it from a mechanical standpoint. If it's an exploit on one side, it's an exploit on the other. It's the same thing. Removing the hook/unhook prompt from play for an advantage. People like you have no objective view, you see it purely form you sides point of view.
5. You want to allude to them, but then when proven wrong from a technical stand point "I DIDN'T SAY!" if you're not using the stats, then how do you know? Just going to go on your own bias point of view and say what you believe as fact?
6. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1838552138 This is just one instance. Though go ahead and continue your denial. If I was lying, why did the developers fix it so that Survivors lost their items upon DC? Cause Survivors were abusing it to stockpile items. It was most used in the insta-blind flashlight days to save purple flashlights.

Though keep going, it's fun to watch a bias Survivor Main ignore an objective view to benefit their bias agenda. I have no hate and prejudice, I just call out the bullshit where I see it.

SovererignKing

@RakimSockem said:

ALSO, for people saying looping wasn't a big thing or was non-existent in the original release of the game, do you know what they had instead:

TWICE THE NUMBER OF PALLETS lol

So yeah, maybe looping became a thing because pallets were removed and survivors had to find another way to survive I guess? Idk, maybe I'm talking crazy

The pallet count was reduced BECAUSE Looping became an issue. The number of Pallets on the map was fine before the hit box changes made Looping the amount made it an issue.

KillermainBTWm8

@SovererignKing said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/640257#Comment_640257

1. Just as usual. Call everyone who doesn't Loop all game a "useless Blendette". I loop too as well as Hide, difference is at least I'm aware of how powerful it is and don't try to stubbornly say it's fine and balanced.
2. No, Bloodlust does NOT work. By the time you get Bloodlst to help you, you've already lost the chase. you've spent too much time chasing a Survivor. Though i'm sure someone who never plays Killer has no idea about that.
3. Sure thing. Always find every excuse in the book as to why you got hit you can. It's never your fault you got smacked.
4. You're bias prevents you from seeing it from a mechanical standpoint. If it's an exploit on one side, it's an exploit on the other. It's the same thing. Removing the hook/unhook prompt from play for an advantage. People like you have no objective view, you see it purely form you sides point of view.
5. You want to allude to them, but then when proven wrong from a technical stand point "I DIDN'T SAY!" if you're not using the stats, then how do you know? Just going to go on your own bias point of view and say what you believe as fact?
6. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1838552138 This is just one instance. Though go ahead and continue your denial. If I was lying, why did the developers fix it so that Survivors lost their items upon DC? Cause Survivors were abusing it to stockpile items. It was most used in the insta-blind flashlight days to save purple flashlights.

Though keep going, it's fun to watch a bias Survivor Main ignore an objective view to benefit their bias agenda. I have no hate and prejudice, I just call out the bullshit where I see it.

fun fact: most people who call others bias'd are even more bias'd

SovererignKing

@Weederick said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/640294#Comment_640294

Looping did not start as an exploit. It started out as actually playing the game as it was intended by using pallets and windows to create distance, instead of the allwinning, everpresent infinites.

I also did the math on hitbox differences when they released collision numbers and its an average speed increase from 100% to 101% - 101,5%. Barely noticeable. The acceleration difference can be counteracted by holding W and turning with the mouse smoothly instead of walking sideways and then turning the corner with forward for example.

And before 1.1 and 1.4 you could loop way, way easier than today, since there were twice as many pallets, more windows and all the vaulting mechanics were a lot faster and not entityblocked.

Devs never called it an exploit. I played since release and survivors already palletlooped at high ranks. It didnt "start" sometime, There was just no reason to palletloop if you wanted to abuse infinites. Not many people wanted to actually play the game back then, it was infinite or lose for most. Then survivors got more skilled with the tiles over time

It didn't start out that way because it wasn't as effective. It wasn't exploitive because there was nothing to exploit. Only after 1.4.0 and the hit box changes did something become exploitive, and that was hit box size differences.

SovererignKing

@KillermainBTWm8 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/640776#Comment_640776

fun fact: most people who call others bias'd are even more bias'd

Not really. I call Bias were is see it.Honestly I don't care if you are a Survivor Main or Killer Main. There are Survivor Mains who call BS on Survivor things, and Killers like Myself who call BS on Killer things. I'm a MMO player. "Main" just denotes which you play the most of, I only care if you're bias or not.

SovererignKing

@[Deleted User] said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/640783#Comment_640783

They can reduce the efficiency of looping for all I care but at the same time revert all vaulting nerfs, increase number of pallets and remove entity blocker. Looping has never been labeled by the devs as exploit. Running left or right is not an exploit. My only problem with looping is poor ma design with most looping spots being overly safe with no place for mindgames. Also I thinkg genrush meta is far more detrimental to the game itself than looping is. You can't blame survivors for playing smart. Number of pallets as pallets themselves have been nerfed so many times - there had to be a way for survivors to compensate so they have adapted. Too bad killers never can adapt - all I see them is crying over this forum about petty things.

As long as they reduce the efficiency, I don't care if they buff the amount. It would have to be in proportion to be an overall weakening, but it is very frustrating have "Dead zones" with little to no Pallets as Survivor. I don't think a full reversion would work, as we'd simply end up in the exact same position as now, just in a different way.

You are correct though. Gen Rush is the cause, Looping only exacerbates the issue. I don't blame the Survivors, I blame the developers. Who doesn't play optimally (or try to anyway)?

It's less "crying" and more that some things you can't adapt to. The game mechanics prevent you from it. It's base line.

Weederick

@SovererignKing said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/640333#Comment_640333

It didn't start out that way because it wasn't as effective. It wasn't exploitive because there was nothing to exploit. Only after 1.4.0 and the hit box changes did something become exploitive, and that was hit box size differences.

Sorry, but thats just wrong. It was way more effective back then. Looping 5-10 minutes was the norm and thats not exaggeration. What you could do with old jungle gyms, 2x the pallets, faster vaults, literal 8-10 palletclusters, 40s flat cd Sprintburst and no bloodlust was on a different level. All the old tiles before they have been crumbled and dismantled usually had either one window or one pallet more. Or both, like jungle gyms and old 4 walls. You could semi infinite jungle gyms and 4 walls.

You focus too much on the 1 percent difference, which was never noticable. The big changes made looping more balanced, like removing palletvacuum and reduicing the amount. And breaking up all the tiles to more balanced versions. You cant really loop for 5-10 minutes now, but back then it was easy, even without infinites. Whole different level

savevatznick

It's an unexpected exploit-turned-feature.

They'd have to overhaul the game to make it work without looping. What a wonder that'd be - a game that isn't about running in circles.

ScottJund

Every day i think people that call looping an exploit are just a meme myth and yet every day I see this #########

martin27

I mentioned my distaste for looping but i can't help but think when chasing inexperienced players as the killer "they wasted that pallet, and that pallet to. Oh they wasted that one now." When i play survivor i prefer to play stealthy and hide from the killers because i am no good at escaping a chase. I don't mind being caught and losing but i hate being camped and tunneled and getting super short matches. I can't blame survivors for surviving but games as a killer can quickly get equally super short with looping and gens being rushed.

RakimSockem

@SovererignKing said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/640257#Comment_640257

1. Just as usual. Call everyone who doesn't Loop all game a "useless Blendette". I loop too as well as Hide, difference is at least I'm aware of how powerful it is and don't try to stubbornly say it's fine and balanced.
2. No, Bloodlust does NOT work. By the time you get Bloodlst to help you, you've already lost the chase. you've spent too much time chasing a Survivor. Though i'm sure someone who never plays Killer has no idea about that.
3. Sure thing. Always find every excuse in the book as to why you got hit you can. It's never your fault you got smacked.
4. You're bias prevents you from seeing it from a mechanical standpoint. If it's an exploit on one side, it's an exploit on the other. It's the same thing. Removing the hook/unhook prompt from play for an advantage. People like you have no objective view, you see it purely form you sides point of view.
5. You want to allude to them, but then when proven wrong from a technical stand point "I DIDN'T SAY!" if you're not using the stats, then how do you know? Just going to go on your own bias point of view and say what you believe as fact?
6. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1838552138 This is just one instance. Though go ahead and continue your denial. If I was lying, why did the developers fix it so that Survivors lost their items upon DC? Cause Survivors were abusing it to stockpile items. It was most used in the insta-blind flashlight days to save purple flashlights.

Though keep going, it's fun to watch a bias Survivor Main ignore an objective view to benefit their bias agenda. I have no hate and prejudice, I just call out the bullshit where I see it.

lol at the assumption that I don't play killer. XD Out of my 1800 hours, about 700 of those are on killer. Nice assumption though

bearluvr182

I am a survivor main, but the way I see some survivors use the pallet looping against me and against my boyfriend who is a killer main, sometimes it does seem rediculous... but in either case, it doesn't matter, cuz they're redoing all maps, and making all pallet circles smaller so survivors can't do this anymore, it's in the year 4 road map and explanation of it, so all the looping survivors better just get used to another strategy cuz the devs are redoing all maps to prevent this. So there's no need arguing about it really, it's not gonna be around much longer...

Wubsyy__

@se05239 said:

It always have been.

The very definition of an exploit is to use something to gain an unfair advantage and in this case, survivors are using their smaller collision boxes to GAIN DISTANCE on killers by pressing themselves closer to objects than a killer can.

Fitting that your profile picture is a clown

KillermainBTWm8

@bearluvr182 said:

I am a survivor main, but the way I see some survivors use the pallet looping against me and against my boyfriend who is a killer main, sometimes it does seem rediculous... but in either case, it doesn't matter, cuz they're redoing all maps, and making all pallet circles smaller so survivors can't do this anymore, it's in the year 4 road map and explanation of it, so all the looping survivors better just get used to another strategy cuz the devs are redoing all maps to prevent this. So there's no need arguing about it really, it's not gonna be around much longer...

Correction: They are making more pallets more mind gameable and if Badham is any clue looping is still very much possible.

Also they take a looong time to rework maps. Map design does need changed though.

Richter_Cade

I think I just saw somebody complain hook blocking is bad too, lol. I'm done.

Seriously, you can't compare survivor blocking, literally taking a hit to try and save a teammate, sacrificing an actual health state, to what killer used to be able to do. Camp the face with zero hope of unhooking, nothing could make them move.

Survivors doing this put themselves at risk to try and get the save, if they pull it off then they kind of deserve it. If it happens to you a lot just run mad grit, it was literally put in the game just to deal with that.

Nameless

@joker7997 said:

The problem is if someone is an excellent looper, there is no fast counterplay for most killers. Survivors abuse this, because they are jackasses who just want to win at all costs. This makes killers pissed off jackasses that just want to win at all costs. The toxicity in this game is unreal. I see it from both ends. I far more empathize with killers, because the amount of toxic ahole survivors is sickening. Teabagging Everytime they drop a pallet, clicking flashlights. F off. Very satisfying to kill.

Is it abusive for survivors to use a game mechanic to survive though? Most killers have a power to either down a survivor quick enough to prevent looping or something against loops in general, other than maybe Wraith and Legion.

Carpemortum

They call it an exploit because, by design, survivors have smaller hitboxes and can run around objects more quickly.

Its using game mechanics. That were programmed as such. To not run in a straight line and die.