Hear me out, a possible solution for Gen Rush

FishFry247

Ok. So I'm not here to make the argument that gen rush is real or not. But rather to make the survivor skill cap for Gen repairs higher and more enjoyable (maybe). All I know is that nearly all builds have to require ruin or some gen slowdown perk or have to be a high pressure killer or run into a clutz of a team. So maybe this could (hypothetically) help in that regard.

Should just be a bandwidth on the amount of gens being done, example

1 gen being worked on = normal speed

2 gen(s) being worked on = 15 % reduction in repair speed

3 gen(s) being worked on = 30 % reduction in repair speed

4 gen(s) being worked on = 40 % reduction in repair speed

Next one is on repair speed on a single gen stacked with survivors. Speed reduced per survivors repair speed not speed overall on gen. (Example instead of 200% repair speed from 2 people, it would be 160% speed.) Following the chart bellow

2 survivors working on a gen = 20% slowdown on the single gen repair speed

3 - 4 survivors working on a gen = 45% slowdown on single gen repair speed

Now these are just numbers I came up with. And would encourage survivors to work more time effectively. Like 1 in chase 2 doing gens and another survivor doing totems opening chest etc. And if this seems a little hard on survivors in solo ques, maybe built in voice should come with an update. So solos are not left in the dust

TaylorAmidala

The generators are already slower when more than one person is on in though right? As for multiple gens being done at the same time, that doesn't happen too much when I'm a survivor lol, so I don't think that's a good idea to make it harder than it already is to do generators especially when there's Hex: Ruin.

SoylentPixie

Yet again, just no. If you want to stop gen rush, think up further objectives. As i said literally an hour ago in another "Anti gen rush" thread, punishing survivors for doing their objective is just not the way to go. I'd love to see something different added to the survivor process that might lengthen the game, but all this will do is cause survivors to immerse uselessly around the map until they can do a gen without a severe penalty.

For working on 2 gens at the same time, you are asking for an effect on par with tier 3, 4 injured survivors thanataphobia. (correct me if I'm wrong, but last time i checked those were the stats)

I'm all for finding ways to extend the game, i truly am, but i feel strongly that this isnt the way to go.

foochill1

Damn g i kinda like the idea, i dont really see any negatives, and it needs something like this since the game has evolved, but maybe 45% is a little too much

Peanits

The second half is already the case (not as extreme, though). There's a 10% penalty for each survivor on a generator.

Adding a penalty for working on separate generators as well is a bit too much, though. At that point, you're punishing the survivors for doing the only thing left to do while rewarding the killer for failing. The way this is proposed actually rewards the killer for doing worse.

To explain: Your job as the killer is to keep as much pressure on the survivors as possible (i.e. to force them off of generators). If four people are on a generator, you're doing poorly. That means you aren't chasing a single person. If you have one on the hook and you're chasing a second, that means one survivor needs to go for the save, leaving only one guy to do generators.

This would suggest that if I'm doing terribly- I have nobody on the hook, I'm not chasing anyone- then all survivors repair generators 40% slower.

It's not exactly ideal. I don't think the killer should be rewarded for failing.

AWesley91

It would be really interesting if the devs released a pbt where gens took 100 seconds or something like killers are asking for.

I feel like the percentage of survivor players would fall drastically.

gantes

People clearly don't play survivor enough if they think that holding M1 for longer is something people would be willing to do.

How are your killer lobbies now? Say goodbye to them if you force people to do the least fun thing in the game even more.

Groxiverde

@Peanits said:

The second half is already the case (not as extreme, though). There's a 10% penalty for each survivor on a generator.

Adding a penalty for working on separate generators as well is a bit too much, though. At that point, you're punishing the survivors for doing the only thing left to do while rewarding the killer for failing. The way this is proposed actually rewards the killer for doing worse.

To explain: Your job as the killer is to keep as much pressure on the survivors as possible (i.e. to force them off of generators). If four people are on a generator, you're doing poorly. That means you aren't chasing a single person. If you have one on the hook and you're chasing a second, that means one survivor needs to go for the save, leaving only one guy to do generators.

This would suggest that if I'm doing terribly- I have nobody on the hook, I'm not chasing anyone- then all survivors repair generators 40% slower.

It's not exactly ideal. I don't think the killer should be rewarded for failing.

Meanwhile, survivors have 100000 rewards for failing. Borrowed time, unbreakable, DS, invulnerability after being unhooked, deadhard, etc... Lol

Cayde1342

@FishFry247 said:

Ok. So I'm not here to make the argument that gen rush is real or not. But rather to make the survivor skill cap for Gen repairs higher and more enjoyable (maybe). All I know is that nearly all builds have to require ruin or some gen slowdown perk or have to be a high pressure killer or run into a clutz of a team. So maybe this could (hypothetically) help in that regard.

Should just be a bandwidth on the amount of gens being done, example

1 gen being worked on = normal speed

2 gen(s) being worked on = 15 % reduction in repair speed

3 gen(s) being worked on = 30 % reduction in repair speed

4 gen(s) being worked on = 40 % reduction in repair speed

Next one is on repair speed on a single gen stacked with survivors. Speed reduced per survivors repair speed not speed overall on gen. (Example instead of 200% repair speed from 2 people, it would be 160% speed.) Following the chart bellow

2 survivors working on a gen = 20% slowdown on the single gen repair speed

3 - 4 survivors working on a gen = 45% slowdown on single gen repair speed

Now these are just numbers I came up with. And would encourage survivors to work more time effectively. Like 1 in chase 2 doing gens and another survivor doing totems opening chest etc. And if this seems a little hard on survivors in solo ques, maybe built in voice should come with an update. So solos are not left in the dust

Love the idea, I feel it will ad more skill based to the game and help people do more than just generators.

theArashi

@Peanits said:

The second half is already the case (not as extreme, though). There's a 10% penalty for each survivor on a generator.

Adding a penalty for working on separate generators as well is a bit too much, though. At that point, you're punishing the survivors for doing the only thing left to do while rewarding the killer for failing. The way this is proposed actually rewards the killer for doing worse.

To explain: Your job as the killer is to keep as much pressure on the survivors as possible (i.e. to force them off of generators). If four people are on a generator, you're doing poorly. That means you aren't chasing a single person. If you have one on the hook and you're chasing a second, that means one survivor needs to go for the save, leaving only one guy to do generators.

This would suggest that if I'm doing terribly- I have nobody on the hook, I'm not chasing anyone- then all survivors repair generators 40% slower.

It's not exactly ideal. I don't think the killer should be rewarded for failing.

Have you considered ScottJund idea for extending the game?

Adding 20 s to the gen fixing and 1m to hook time would extend the game with next to no cost for either side.

Tenebro

@Peanits said:

The second half is already the case (not as extreme, though). There's a 10% penalty for each survivor on a generator.

Adding a penalty for working on separate generators as well is a bit too much, though. At that point, you're punishing the survivors for doing the only thing left to do while rewarding the killer for failing. The way this is proposed actually rewards the killer for doing worse.

To explain: Your job as the killer is to keep as much pressure on the survivors as possible (i.e. to force them off of generators). If four people are on a generator, you're doing poorly. That means you aren't chasing a single person. If you have one on the hook and you're chasing a second, that means one survivor needs to go for the save, leaving only one guy to do generators.

This would suggest that if I'm doing terribly- I have nobody on the hook, I'm not chasing anyone- then all survivors repair generators 40% slower.

It's not exactly ideal. I don't think the killer should be rewarded for failing.

I agree with you, except that this tactic (3 survs on 3 separate gens, and one in chase) is so effective that if everybody does this, and everybody knows just a bit of looping, the game is over for the killer, no matter what (even with mori and addons). Maybe only nurse\spirit have some chance to handle that situation.

Usually this setup ends with the first hook and 3 gens done. After this, 1 surv goes for the save or to entertain the killer, and the other 2 finish the remaining gens (and eventually go for the save\teabag the killer).

I understand that this is survs primary objective, and if they are doing so they are doing the right thing (so putting a penalty could be counterintuitive), but the downside is that this is the counter to almost every killer (in particular M1 killers), and that this is very boring both sides.

Obviously, if there are 4 survivors doing 4 separate gens, then there is something wrong with the killer 😋

PickCollins

The issue isn't that gens get done too quickly. It's that there's no emphasis on doing anything EXCEPT the gens. If there was more emphasis on totems (a totem counter for example and extra rewards, like restoring item charge), or simply adding new secondary objectives would help with the "genrush" issue.

White_Owl

@gantes said:

People clearly don't play survivor enough if they think that holding M1 for longer is something people would be willing to do.

How are your killer lobbies now? Say goodbye to them if you force people to do the least fun thing in the game even more.

People seem to forget that the game must be interesting for survivors too.

phantasmal

Yeah, gen repair time itself definitely shouldn't be touched and there should be no arbitrary punishment for efficency/reward for no pressure.

The only thing that might be acceptable is adding 1 or 2 extra steps to gen repairs, like having to scavenge for a specific item beforehand.

Or maybe something like this: once a generator has been repaired a randomly selected (preferably always in the furthest possible location) lever has to be flipped to redirect the power. And until it remains unflipped all generator receive a stackable repair malus or something, like skillchecks become tremendously harder cause the system is overloaded. The repaired gen could have a sparkling wire coming out of it that would guide you to the lever and then there could be perks/maps helping you find it and maybe the killer would see the aura. The lever flipping itself should only take a second or two as it's only meant to give a reason to travel across the map. And flipping the lever should give like a good chunk of points of course.

Or something else completely unrelated to gens but following the same line of thought: give an incentive for survivors to run around the map for something important.

Jdsgames

@phantasmal said:

Yeah, gen repair time itself definitely shouldn't be touched and there should be no arbitrary punishment for efficency/reward for no pressure.

The only thing that might be acceptable is adding 1 or 2 extra steps to gen repairs, like having to scavenge for a specific item beforehand.

Or maybe something like this: once a generator has been repaired a randomly selected (preferably always in the furthest possible location) lever has to be flipped to redirect the power. And until it remains unflipped all generator receive a stackable repair malus or something, like skillchecks become tremendously harder cause the system is overloaded. The repaired gen could have a sparkling wire coming out of it that would guide you to the lever and then there could be perks/maps helping you find it and maybe the killer would see the aura. The lever flipping itself should only take a second or two as it's only meant to give a reason to travel across the map. And flipping the lever should give like a good chunk of points of course.

Or something else completely unrelated to gens but following the same line of thought: give an incentive for survivors to run around the map for something important.

I like those kinda suggestions. Maybe in exchange of having the survivors need to go around collecting items. We can make the gens actually less time. However, still having the game last a decent amount of time.

@Jdsgames said:

I have always looked at mechanics that require a perk to utilize them a waste of potential. Dull Totems, Gen kicking, healing for survivors etc.

For this thread I want to suggest a change and get feedback on whether this would be a decent change. This turns dull totems into the secondary objective it should have been upon release.

Each dull totem on the map passively assists a killer in their ability. It increases their movement speed by 1% per dull totem remaining on the map. In addition to that there will be some form of boost to their power or another debuff. (I will not include nurse for this as that is just mean)

Method 1: Killer Power Boosts

Note: Numbers are examples general idea is mechanic.

Trapper: Placing and Setting traps get a small 1/2/3% cool-down reduction per dull totem remaining on the map.

Wraith: Cloaking and Uncloaking speed receives a small 1/2/3% cool-down reduction per dull totem remaining on the map.

Hillbilly: One of the two: Chainsaw Charge or Chainsaw Cooldown receives a small 1/2/3% cool-down reduction per dull totem remaining.

Myers: Stalking amount is increased by 1/2/4% which makes tiering up faster per totem remaining.

Hag: Placing and Setting traps is 1/2/4% faster per totem.

Doctor: One of the Four: The rate the survivor goes mad is increased by 2/3/4%; the charge time to shock a survivor is reduced by 2/3/4% or the cool-down between switching from punishment and madness is reduced by 2/3/4% or The range of the doctor's shock is increased by 3/4/5% per totem remaining on the map.

Huntress: One of the Two: The cooldown between throwing hatchets is reduced by 1/2/3% or The speed reduction for winding up hatchets is reduced by 1/2/3% per totem remaining on the map.

Cannibal: The cooldown for missed chainsaw attacks and tantrums are reduced by 1/2/3% per dull totem remaining on the map.

Nightmare: One of the Two: The survivors passively fall asleep 2/3/4% faster per totem remaining on the map or The duration and effects of snares is increased by 1/2/3% per totem remaining on the map. Pallets I cannot really assist here.

Pig: One of the Two: The time of the RBT trap is reduced by 1/2/3% per remaining totem on the map or The time it takes to search a jigsaw box is 1/2/3% slower per remaining totem on the map.

Clown: Refilling bottles is 1/2/3% faster per remaining totem.

Spirit: The cool-down between phasing is reduced by 1/2/3% per remaining totem.

Legion: The cool-down after leaving frenzy is reduced by 1/2/3% per remaining totem.

Plague: One of the Two: Survivors infected by the plague repair generators 1/2/3% per remaining totem or the time it takes for them to become broken is reduced by 1/2/3% per remaining totem.

GhostFace: One of the Two: The cooldown of being able to stealth is reduced by 2/3/4% per remaining totem or The audio scruffling of the outfit is reduced by 1/2/3% per remaining totem.

Method 2: Debuff Speeds

Instead of buffing a killer you can always debuff the survivor. For every dull totem remaining on the map all survivors are slower by 1/2/3% for repairing/healing/sabotaging/exit gate opening/mending/leaving madness etc.

I also suggested adding a slight buff to dull totems that benefit the killer. This makes totems more essential. However, not the biggest threat. Numbers can always be tweaked.

@Jdsgames said:

General Mechanic

Many people have taken to asking for this to be an automatic phase. This kinda takes the 'struggle' out of struggle. I suggest a new idea I had posted in a previous thread. Essentially it will be tied down to skill checks. One every 5 seconds.

Hitting the skill check keeps you alive. Missing two skill checks in a row will lead to instant sacrifice. Missing a skill check will reduce your bar by 5 seconds. You are losing the struggle between you and the entity. Slipping up is essentially losing to the entity while the key-bind suggestion below is your suicide option.

Great skill checks add 2 1.25 seconds to your bar. If you are great at hitting great skill checks this will increase your timer by a few seconds. This can be a clutch aid in which killers are camping or your team is just needing a bit more time to get to you.

Blood Point: Struggling on the hook generates Struggle BP. Hitting great skill checks award bonus struggle points for the survivor. Failing to hit a skill check will punish your unbroken emblem.

As @Atrushan88 and @Peanits suggested there should still be a way to suicide on the hook. I suggest an activator button like dead-hard. This gives you the option to just let go and accept your fate. While missing two skill checks is more like losing the battle to the entity. Again pleases both natures of the game.

Skill Check and Perk Effect Changers:

Huntress Lullaby: Yes should affect these skill checks. Makes nabbing that totem slightly more important. It would also keep you on your toes if you were hooked and it has five stacks.

Unnerving Presence: Would severely be abused by campers if this was implemented. I can understand maybe a bonus slight reduction to these types of skill checks. Otherwise this should not affect these skill checks.

Deliverance: If you were not able to use it on your first hook state: You can hit a designated button like dead hard. This will cause you to have to succeed 3 difficult skill checks (BNP/DS skill checks) in rapid succession. These skill checks pause your struggle timer and do not count towards losing the battle to the entity. If you hit all three skill checks you are able to get off the hook.This gives you a second chance of being able to use Deliverance... However, you have to work for it. These skill checks will not cause an instant death for missing them.

Spine Chill: Can reduce the frequency of skill checks down to 4.75/4.5/4.25. This would allow you to have more chances to extend your struggle phase. Anything other than the slightest of reduction of these skill checks would be too powerful.

This is Not Happening: Yes it would make the skill check areas bigger. The perk is weak as is so it doesn't make this a terrible change.

Stakeout: Punishes camping and that is alright. The perk is weak as is so it doesn't make this a terrible change.

Doctor Madness: I would have to test to see if this is a fair mechanic. This mechanic is to be a detriment to campers not hinder survivors. However, at the same time counter-weighted by bad-skill-check plays.

Animation Changes:

Suggestion from @Boss and expanded on.

Great Skill Check:

- This will have the entity attempt to stab the survivor and by swift luck they are able to dodge it. Letting them live just a little while longer.

Good Skill Check:

- Can stay the same as is. The concept is the survivor is just barely scraping by fending the entity off. Slowly they are weakening and the entity is just waiting for it.

Missing a Skillcheck:

- The entity goes for a quick jab inward letting the survivor know their death is getting closer another slip up and it is over. Practically just a fraction away from piercing them and completing the sacrifice. This animation will revert if the survivor succeeds the next skill check. (Shows the struggle in an animated way)

If the Deliverance Perk bonus I suggested above is implemented:

- The survivor will unhook themselves. However, during this the entity attempts to take a quick jab inward to complete the sacrifice and the survivor knocks it away just barely.

Unhooking by the Survivor:

- As the unhooked survivor starts to drop to the ground the entity stabs the hook right above there head as they land. Showing the next hook will be their last.

Point Scoring:

Skill checks reward objective points for hitting. It is your objective to stay alive, do gens, and get out. However, the longer you struggle for the more struggle points you gain. If you extend your life by hitting these great skill checks you naturally gain more struggle and objective points.

Benefits

• This mechanic saves your keys lifetime. No more button mashing/macro spam space.
• This mechanic does not really impede either side's game-play. It is mainly a QOL change.
• This mechanic is no longer 'rapidly tap space' a meaningless duty.
• You wouldn't die from lag spikes unless they were so severe that lasted 10 seconds in a clip.
• Adds depth to the game during the struggle phase.
• Punishes camping killers
• Natural buffs to other perks that are not in meta.

This could make the struggle phase less hassle and give the survivors more of a life-time in game. Also makes camping possibly less effective while buffing weaker perks.

You could also make it so the killer can go around hitting levers preventing progress on a gen until it is switched again. Whilst kicking the gen causes regression.

Then I think you could massively buff survivors and still have a fair game whilst adding new mechanics.

Aikanaro

@Groxiverde said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/632323#Comment_632323

Meanwhile, survivors have 100000 rewards for failing. Borrowed time, unbreakable, DS, invulnerability after being unhooked, deadhard, etc... Lol

Because they cant attack the killer, do you want them to be able to attack?

Aikanaro

They want a 20 min gen fest to end the game with Noed, Remember Me, Blood Warden.

RIP_Legion

Honestly, I'm still onboard with totems having a slight gen progress speed. For each totem still active add a 2-4% decrease in repair speed, it's not hard to do totems most players I run into just do totems anyways for points, it'd give more of an incentive to do them aside from just farming.

FishFry247

@Peanits said:

The second half is already the case (not as extreme, though). There's a 10% penalty for each survivor on a generator.

Adding a penalty for working on separate generators as well is a bit too much, though. At that point, you're punishing the survivors for doing the only thing left to do while rewarding the killer for failing. The way this is proposed actually rewards the killer for doing worse.

To explain: Your job as the killer is to keep as much pressure on the survivors as possible (i.e. to force them off of generators). If four people are on a generator, you're doing poorly. That means you aren't chasing a single person. If you have one on the hook and you're chasing a second, that means one survivor needs to go for the save, leaving only one guy to do generators.

This would suggest that if I'm doing terribly- I have nobody on the hook, I'm not chasing anyone- then all survivors repair generators 40% slower.

It's not exactly ideal. I don't think the killer should be rewarded for failing.

You are right, that punishment is way to high, but survivors have so many second chance perks

UltraBanana

@FishFry247 said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/632323#Comment_632323

You are right, that punishment is way to high, but survivors have so many second chance perks

Well the problem is if the survivors are bad (or the killer is playing someone OP like nurse / spirit) the killer just rolls over everyone and then it feels awful as a solo q survivor so you want all those second chance perks. But if the survivors you run into have thousands of hours and know all the good pallets / windows etc etc and how to run them there isn't too much you can do as an m1 killer and the game is over in 4-5 minutes and then the second chances are way too much.