Anyone else feel the DS stun is too long?
Since the Enduring nerf, DS has been such a bane. I get that you shouldn't tunnel incase they have it, but sometimes you don't even realise it's the same person since they could just insta heal then rush you when you have someone. it was buffed because Enduring made the old stun into a 1 second stun, but since Enduring no longer affects DS, it should revert back too the old stun timer, or make it into a 3 second stun like Head On. Or, better yet, let Enduring cut all stuns in half.
Comments
But you know, saying anything that isn't killer sided in these forums is asking to be downvoted because people can't be bothered to play both sides and be unbiased, so I know I'm wasting my time here.
I'm a survivor main. I haven't touched killer in weeks, maybe more.
You're not the only person in this thread. I was talking about the thread as a whole. Not everything is about you.
In my defense, you said it as an addendum to a comment that was actually directed at me. Also, I'm the one downvoting you. So yeah, it was about me.
Nah, it's about these forums. You ain't that special.
1. Yes DS can be worked around but for what cost. You know that minimally 1 person has it with obsession mark around said survivor but you can't tell if all have it or just that one. If you have to give up all surviovrs after the most unsafe rescues ever you're playing really unoptimally and with off meta killers that guarantees loss most of the time.
2. One minute more is only significant if you did something usefull during it. Unless you're breaking pallets or huting survivors 1 minute of patrolling gens that nobody works on is 1 wasted minute. Survivors can work on totem while you're not chasing anyone or even at the start of the match. That time is uselles for killer since you're not progressing in killing.
I would just be glad if people stoped complaining about perk as weak as NOED. DS could still use some nerf or qol change for killers but I don't mind the current version. It's as fair as strong survivor perks can get.
I think that better change is that survivor who just got unhooked keeps DS active for 60s unless they do gens,healing,sabo etc. That would be logical since tunneled survivor can't do gens when he's beiing tunneled right. Dunno I don't really mind new DS that much but I think some adjustments wouldn't kill it.
TBH it's the same as playing around Borrowed Time. Except on very specific scenarios I go for the rescuer.
1 minute worth of pressure can be a lot. Assuming all survivors are working on separate gens it's 75% of a gen, maybe an entire gen with a toolbox. This game is almost entirely about time management. If slugging someone for a minute because of DS, it's probably because 1 minute can be an eternity in this game.
I honestly think that NOED, despite being bad game design, isn't OP. Far from it. It's a weak perk in almost every scenario unless you're talking about mid-low tiers. Killers can't even afford to go for any build too different from the standard most of the time, which is a whole other problem. So honestly, all you have to do is stop taking complaints about it seriously. Unless it's people saying it's poor design, which has its merits as a claim.
I think the supporters are looking at MoM and how the devs change up perks, so there's some fear that any adjustment would be a nerf.
There's nothing stopping a killer from finding and tunneling a survivor that has a few seconds to do something else. Tunneling can exist without camping.
I think it would be fair to decrease the timer but stop it during a chase.
Ds is fine how it is. If that 2 seconds doesn’t let you get the kill you shouldn’t be have gotten it anyway
@ZacKskills
What two seconds?
Here's the opportunity to showcase your wonderful math skills so people can understand where you're getting "two seconds" from.
I think that would be amazing but the change would have to be like 30s otherwise it's again getting a bit to close to immunity perk teritory.
Head on and DS's stun times should be 4 seconds
I honestly think that'd make the perk fit it's anti tunneling aspect better. I'd settle for that change in a heartbeat.
Sadly Head On could have a 2 minute stun and it would still be bad because of how broken that perk is. #LoveForHeadOn
Sometimes you can't avoid it. If the unhooked person immediatly runs too another person who is hooked, you have too down them. It's not about tunneling, its about the fact that the stun timer is way too long. It was buffed too 5 seconds because Enduring made the old stun 1 second. But since enduring was nerfed, the old DS stun should come back since 5 seconds could get a survivor too 2-3 loops before the killer can catch up.
Reducing the stun does nothing to solve the problem you pointed. Reducing the timer does.
lol rly?! THere is no other " Hey I got hooked, I will just take every hit the next 60 seconds" perk. Tat only got in the game because of crybabies who can´t do safe unhooks...
5 seconds is way to long and the fact enduring reduced the stun duration was totally fine. every perk should be counterable...
Btw you simply play the whole time with only 3 perks... and maybe it even doesn´t pop cuz survs cleansed all totems... or it pops and gets instantly broken..
Flashlight stuns are about 3 seconds. Pallet stuns are 2 seconds. In both these scenarios the survivor can easily get too another loop. 5 seconds is just too strong IMO. Especially because not everyone is going too just run away. If they know they have DS, they can just run into the killer if he is chasing someone else, baiting a down and a grab, then get away scott free because of the 5 seconds timer. This is a massive loss of momentum for the killer since he has too now go after another person who has made it too another loop. And this isn't even mentioning the fact everyone can bring it with no downsides for not being the obsession like old DS.
Yes it would because if someone did an unsafe hook swarm with DS, they can't save the person and run away in 3 seconds. One of them is going on the hook so it will promote more anti tunneling use then Kamakazie use.
The survivor can easily get to another loop in 3 seconds on many map setups, sure. But in a lot of map setups they'll just run to a dead zone and die again. So the anti tunnel perk wouldn't be doing its job.
Pallet stuns are different. The killer generally has to kick the pallet to get anything done.
Stopping to blind the killer generally makes you lose distance overall.
I just can't see the huge problem with DS being a 5, effectively 4 second stun. You're using a perk slot for an effect you're most likely not even gonna use. If it'll make people feel better, just make it 4 seconds without the small self stun for the survivor for all I care. People are just overreacting to something which isn't even a problem in the larger scope of the game.
it is a larger problem. The perk is meant for Anti tunneling, but if people are using it too bum rush hooks too get rescues that they shouldn't get. Clearly you will not always get too a safe spot on all maps all the time, but that also can be said about the perk currently, and if you use it against a Nurse it won't matter at all. 3 seconds is more then enough time too get away, long as you put yourself in a good spot too use it since it relies on you making it happen.
What determines if people should get saves or not? You thinking you're entitled to a kill?
I intentionally avoid getting hit by it, so no.
Actually playing smart?
If people are gonna whine about stuff that has clear counterplay and opportunity costs, I give up.
Just a heads up: it costs literally nothing to be unbiased and look at both sides.
Having to play differently makes people feel bad so why change how you play when you can just complain instead?
And it's not even like MoM that only had "play a top tier killer" or "camp" as counterplay.
The counterplay to DS is stuff that has been in the game for ages and people are only bothered because it gives survivors tools, even if those tools can be countered.
People are just a joy over here. Almost as fun as people on reddit or the steam community.
It's not entitledment mate, it's the fact dumb plays should not have massive rewards. Rushing a guy on the hook while injured should cost you a hook, not reward you for not using the perk as intended. Survivors should be rewarded for not farming themselves and their allies, not for rushing the killer because they know they have a "get out of jail free" card.
Well, it punishes facecamping AND tunneling, which I think should be rewarded even less than rushed saves, so yeah. I'm fine with it.
Ignoring this thread from now on, people who think they deserve to secure kills with no counterplay aren't worth my time.
They get rewarded when you pick them up, not when they rush the hook. The proper play is to slug them and have them waste time on the floor, while forcing another teammate to rescue them.
You may think they're stupid but aren't you the dumb one for not anticipating reasons for such a reckless play?
I believe that 5 seconds is actually a good amount of time when you consider how difficult it is to trigger.
it is supposed to Be a deterrent . You don’t want it’s it to trigger? Slug or dont tunnel
@BunnyTheHutt
it is 75% *recovery time* vs 50% *stun reduction*
at 75% it was 1.14 seconds for pallets. At 50% it is 1 second
I mean the same people REEEE about being hit by Dead Hard for the third time in the same game, so I am not surprised.
Why blame yourself when you can blame everyone else?
I love how quick people are to downvote but no one is willing to back up their arguments
same could be said too you mate. You have given 0 counter points and keep adding more points when people give counter point and not giving any help too the discussion.
It's not difficult at all too trigger, the skill check is 2x the size of a gen skillcheck. In all my time using it I have failed too hit it once because I have comcast and I get spikes from time too time.
Was it ever about arguments?
I'm guessing you weren't here for the outrage when BHVR changed the emblems for killers to lose points for camping.
Why would killers be upset about this?
OF COURSE IT ISN'T!!!.
DEVS CLEARLY STATED: 'Now that we have enduring covered, we can revisit all stun perks and adjust their lenghts if needed'
Of course they never even bother touching anything but enduring.
DS is broken in the endgame.
If the gates aren't even open, a single DS buys the person on the gate 25% of a gate in stun time alone, not factoring in downing the survivor, the pick up animation, and current distance from a gate.
I always try to save mine for endgame :(
@BunnyTheHutt
i feel like you are confusing “trigger” and “activate”
unless the Killer is unaware how how borrowed time or ds work, it is generally unlikely they won’t play play around it (simply slugging)
hitting a skillcheck doesn’t say anything towards the perks strength. It could be a button activation and the perk wouldn’t change
Yea it is for sure to long
They actually explicitly stated they think ds is in a good place
abd that stun times don’t all have to be the same. Stun times should reflect the situation they aren’t being used in.
I think it's fine. Besides, it sucks so many times when I'm the obsession the killer knows I have DS and they down me after the unhook and purposefully leave me on the ground for the full minute. Does that happen to anyone else?
I mean it is quite obvious. Although, running Dying Light has taught a few pesky players that DS is both a good perk for survivors and can be an even greater perk for the killer <3
No, Activating means a perk has become usable for however long it remains, such as Hope and NOED when the gens are finished. Triggering means when you trigger an effect, so skill checks.