wisdom
wisdom
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@Joao_Bandicoot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/633036#Comment_633036
Can you please tell what pressure a killer can apply? Because I had a match playing Trapper, 1 person on hook another one in a trap and as I was going for him 2 gens popped.
Well, you were playing trapper. That’s one issue there.
As trapper you automatically have to give up map pressure just to use your power. It’s how he works. It’s why so many people on the forums would argue he isn’t one of the worst killers in the game.
you having A person on the hook and a person trapped is 2 people off generators. It’s not possible for you to expect that generators don’t get popped, your job is to simply stop all of them from being popped. in The situation you described those 2 gens were popped but the next gens would have been significantly slower, since they are forced to rescue presumably while you are in another chase.
Also, assuming those were the first 2 gens, that’s average gameplay. You should expect 1-2 generators being popped by your first hook. It’s not possible to pressure 4 survivors without hooks.
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Gen rush is when the killer fails to apply pressure.
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This is a 1 time per game situation that only works if you fall for it.
if you tunnel someone and they get in a locker, pretend to leave and then smack em when they get out instead
or just don’t tunnel them.
obviously it can happen even when you don’t, but the situation is so rare it’s not worth considering
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@Aikanaro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/618870#Comment_618870
Camp and tunnel, at the end of the day crappy killers dont pip in high ranks, no risk no reward so forget about camping penalty the size of the whole map.
They know what they are doing and want to be rewarded anyway.
Yea but the title of the post and the evidence presented makes it very clear they did not camp.
What looks like actuakky happened was someone killed themselves on hook (possibly multiple people) and the game ended to fast.
the killer killed 4 survivors faster than the game considers “acceptable”
ignoring gatekeeper, which is silver if 3 gens are done quickly (which let’s be honest happens a lot) we have a chaser emblem at bronze with no camping penalty. With malicious and devour being at silver, it looks like the scenario was more and more likely like the killer didn’t get enough chases- the survivors didn’t save each other or they struggled and killed themselves.
disconnecting would have caused the same situation.
and it’s silly that it is a possibility. I don’t see anything here that suggests the OP camped or tunneled. Hell if the plague tunneled off the hook, devout would probably be higher not lower
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Some of the comments on here
“they camped”
has no camping penalty
”well then they must have camped from
a distance”
okay lets make the camping penalty the size of the map.
The correct answer wasYaipa’s. Killers can’t actually play to kill in order to pip. It has to be a “fun game”. You have to let survivors go and give them extra chances if you want to rank up.
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please bhvr, remove the penalty on Legion’s power for hitting a survivor with a basic attack.
there is no reason for it to be there.
my biggest pet peeve with legion is losing my power for attack survivors. It doesn’t make sense.
if I hit a survivor with my m1, and then go into frenzy, I can’t down them anyway. It literally just stops me from gaining momentum through slugging, and if that is the reason it is there I don’t get why that penalty exists.
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Yea I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about this on social media as well. I haven’t experienced myself but I haven’t played today. Could somehow be from the update this morning
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OberhaulOverall or rework doesn’t scream “Leatherface” to me.
Buff leatherface? Yes. Trapper is in desperate need of something, anything to make him good. At least leatherface can break pallets quickly and capitalize on survivors being out in the open. Trapper has to rely mostly on luck and has a detriment in terms of set up time.
And while I may have gotten “upvotes” if I left it at that, I also think nurse needs to be reworked to add cost to her blinks. The argument she takes “skill to use” isn’t a valid one for game balance, and suggesting that she is at the perfect balance exactly where she stands now is extremely killer bias. And killer bias is okay, as long as you recognize everything in the game should be fair for the other side. A killer that ignores game mechanics completely without any cost and the only counterplay is hoping the nurse makes a mistake is not fair for survivors
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Solidarity and autodidact need auras like we’ll make it has to let survivors know you have it so you don’t have to fight people for heals.
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Just to be clear, a successful pop takes off 20 seconds of a gen’s progression maximum- per hook.
Even though that is a large amount of time, you would need to pgtw multiple times in a game on gens that have at least 20 seconds of progression to begin with to even come close to matching ruin which has multiple survivors losing 7 seconds on good skillchecks/ spending time finding the totem.
Against survivors who don’t miss greats, though? I mean ruin prevents the 2% bonus speed from greats but that might as well be nothing. The real question is: against good survivors do you even have time to kick generators?
I’d say ruin is still better.
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@prettyf said:
how about... effect all survivors when game started and still being current hex perk?
personally i don't like unintuitive changes like they adding lit condition or something
I mentioned that in my original post.
It would just be knock out at that point, but with a hex condition so arguably incredibly worse.
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You are welcome to downvote my comment, but the question still remains unanswered
What makes the defenders of this idea that the maps are the problem believe that if maps were more killer favored that the nurse would see less play?
Are we really going to argue that a small pallet light open map is somehow worse for the nurse than it is for any other killer?
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There is nothing “unnecessary “ about a change to the nurse.
The nurse ignores game mechanics. You can nerf killer’s base mechanics to the ground, buff survivors to god tier levels, or do the exact opposite, and if the nurse remains unchanged she will continue to be the strongest killer in the game.
that is the nature of her power. It ignores game mechanics. It does not have a cost.
And “skill” isn’t an argument I will accept. Nurses skill cap in dead by daylight may be high, but compared to almost any other game it is laughably low. Requiring skill to keep something that is legitimately broken in the game is the argument that was used back in the day defending the inclusion of infinite loops.
I want the game to be fair for both sides. Which means I don’t want old ds to be a thing- because it is legitimately unfair. However, if I am not being bias, as so many people are when countering the idea of a nurse rework, I can honestly say that the nurse herself is also legitimately unfair.
Hillbilly, spirit, these are the killers we should model killer balance around. The nurse is the strongest killer only because she is the strongest in charge, amp pressure, hook pressure, mobility, etc. she has no weakness and her counterplay is hoping that the nurse messes up. Legion was nerfed for the same reasons, except they were FAR weaker but easier to use.
Your argument that maps are the problem is a legitimate one.
But let’s say they fixed maps. What makes you believe people would stop using the nurse? Killer favored maps still favor the nurse. It’s actually quite hard to make a map that doesn’t favor her, because again... she ignores game mechanics.
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An idea I have that I will continue to propose even though all the salty people on here will continue to downvote my comments simply because they want their broken ######### in the game because they feel entitled, is a nurse rework.
Because I am a killer main and I want the game to be balanced. And the game will never be balanced if you have a killer who ignores game mechanics at no cost. You want survivor nerfs? Me too. But this is a game with 2 sides.
My proposal was, and still is, this.
Make the nurse a 110 killer.
Rework her blinks to have charges. She starts with 2-3 base changes, and when she blinks she consumes a charge. The charges refresh over time.
Rework her add ons to not have so many fake stats in them.
And give her an ultra rare add on that lets her have infinite charges with a limited number of chain blinks.
This would mean that you can have the nurse we have now as an ultra rare (a bit better actually since she would be 110) and you would have the ability to actually catch survivors without her blinks you can use her blinks for mobility or chases, but not both.
She would still be one of the strongest killers in the game, boasting incredible ability in every category that matters, but you wouldn’t simply be the strongest killer at all times at all points in the game with no counterplay.
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Lots of people bringing up prayer beads. I assume a lot of them are truetalent sheep.
Not to say they are wrong, prayer beads are insane. And this is going to sound quite silly, but if you are having a hard time against a gen grab spirit, just gen tap. Even if there is no ruin. Just gen tap.
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People need to stop saying it’s because to many people are playing killer. That is simply not true.
Solo queues for survivor are also ridiculous
And for killer, it’s not like the killer is waiting in a lobby for people to join. Killers are waiting 15-25 minutes to MAKE a lobby. Which doesn’t make any sense at all.
I’m red rank in both survivor and killer. And that is my fault. I had 2 hours this morning to play games and I only got 2 survivors games in. Granted 30 minutes of that was waiting to make a lobby for killer, only to get stuck in a 3 man lobby afterwards, but still... that’s over an hour to play 2 games of survivor.
The game isn’t dead (I don’t think) and it has nothing to do with people playing killer. Queue times are just really #########. There is no reason killers should be put into a queue to make a lobby. There is no purpose unless when you finish that queue you have 4 survivors. But you don’t, survivors trickle in 1 at a time.
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Freddy likes reduced terror radius during a chase.
The only real aspect of this perk that is somewhat decent is the changing obsession, but that currently doesn’t really do anything because there are no obsession perks worth running that care about it. Maybe in the future we will get a perk that combos with it and the perk might be rogue playable. For now the perk is hot garbage, like all of ghostface’s perks
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If someone can’t hit great skillchecks, it’s going to take far longer than 10-20 seconds longer. You lose 4 seconds of progression and 3 seconds of progression you cannot work on the generator. That is 7 seconds of lost generator time for 1 not great skillcheck.
But ruin, generally, is fine where it is. The only real “nerf” I would like to see is increasing the point gain for hex skillchecks to encourage survivors to actually play against the perk correctly.
Also you don’t need ruin at red ranks. I know streamers like to say you do, but ruin is only run 20% of the time between ranks 4-1. At least for me, ever since the healing nerf, I’ve had a much easier time keeping up pressure with survivors choosing not to heal or spending copious amounts of time healing. Killers don’t need longer gen times, they need more effective ways to keep people off gens. If they choose to use ruin, they run a huge risk in having it broken early and running on 3 perks or just going against survivors who see it every game and just work through it without any significant loss of time.
Ruin is one of the best perks in the game, but nerfing it just doesn’t make sense, since it is such a high risk perk. Really other hex perks should be more like it.
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You keep saying if you are awake Freddy will just sleep you again.
From what the devs said during their reveal, that doesn’t sound at all like something that can happen. The sleep is passive. Global or not, Freddy cannot “sleep” survivors. If you are awake when Freddy starts chase, the only way to
Go back to sleep is to passively go back to sleep, which takes however long it takes.
And while you are awake, dream snares do not affect you.
But again I am in no way saying that I think that Freddy’s power (from what we have heard so far) is good. I am simply saying that Freddy being able to see people in the dream, if it sleeps people globally and passively, would be too strong.
If you are correct and it is an aura sleep, it wouldn’t be to strong, but then Freddy would still be the worst killer in the game without question.
“Hey let’s make a killer who can set up traps that only slow survivors, and only if he has been around them for X seconds and don’t wake up”
The devs made it sound like a global passive sleep, which is what I am working with since it doesn’t make any sense to replace a 7 second sleep cycle when you are near someone with a passive sleep cycle when you are near someone.
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Could be. The devs didn’t really give to much info on survivors falling asleep so we will have to wait and see in that.
Still, you don’t want to be asleep and then trigger a trap during chase. Unless of course it’s like a clown bottle in which case it basically didn’t do anything anyway.
We will have to see what they actually end up doing. Though passively falling asleep only when Freddy is nearby sounds significantly worse than what Freddy is right now.
Based on how the devs have been handing balance lately, I really don’t feel to good about the Freddy rework coming up.
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@LordGlint Oh I get it, popping Freddy’s traps while not in chase, yea?
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@LordGlint What are the upsides?
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@LordGlint said:
@wisdom back up one moment... If you are not in a chase with Freddy, the snares and such are not a problem. If you ARE in a chase, he'll simply sleep you first. At what point is it benifitial to wake up?
Freddy never sleeps you. Falling asleep is passive and global.
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I mean, the current incentive to wake up is that it turns off Freddy’s power entirely. No dream pallets or dream snares. The only thing Freddy can do to awake survivors would be to chase them down and teleport every 60 seconds.
With just what the developers have given us, Freddy does not sound like he will be that strong. I agree there needs to be more incentive to wake up.
And I understand that survivors can stop feeding Freddy the info, but the info he gets is massive at the start and would continue to be extremely strong throughout the process of waking up.
Maybe a scream-type notification when someone falls asleep fully, but straight up seeing where they are and what they are doing and where they are going through walls with an infinite range without having to do anything to get that information in the first place- with no counterplay mind you since this is trying to stop yourself from being revealed after you have been revealed- it just doesn’t seem like it would be a good call. At least not with the way Freddy works in his rework.
Right now it’s fair, because Freddy has to find the survivor first and then choose to let them go. The survivor has some some control as to if they get caught in the dream and they are generally being chased if they are put into the dream.
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Ah okay.
My point still stands though, since doctor illusions spawn randomly and only face in 1 static direction looking at the survivor at the moment it spawns.
So it is still extremely different than an aura reading ability.
Like... a survivor falls asleep and Freddy dan see exactly where they are and the only way for Freddy to not see them is if they run to an object that Freddy knows where it is.
And yea, he can’t see people in his terror radius, but he saw them before hand and cannot lose them unless he decides to let them go.
Idk friend, I don’t know what value you put on information in the game, but there is a reason that nurses and bbq are among the most use killer perks in the game.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/554393#Comment_554393
@wisdom ok, about your points. 2 things... Doctor says hi. Being around him long enough gives away position, and once you hit madness 2... The position reveal is permanent all game. With Freddy, this info is used for survivors NOT BEING CHASED. They're the ones who can just interact with the new clocks to turn it off.
Doctor has a pseudo-whispers effect 1 time at the beginning of the game, hardly ever after that.
I don’t know the fall asleep timer so I’m going to say 60 seconds.
Every 60 seconds a survivor will fall asleep. Current that just means you can be affected by Freddy’s dream abilities. What adding aura reading would do would mean that you know the position of *every* survivor at all times until they fail a skillcheck or run to a dream object.
That is NOT like the doctor, who builds up madness for being near you, gets a single scream notification, and has to actively obtain the information or get someone into madness 3 (a lot of work on their part) with an easy escape option int he survivors end.
An aura reveal and a scream notification on top of not having to do anything vs having to do something. They are in no way similar.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/554348#Comment_554348
@wisdom Just because you may have a better understanding of other aura reading, like nurses calling, doesn't mean you should REMOVE the effect from things due to ppl not reading the information provided to them. If they claimed it was removed because they felt he already had alot going for him, and was due to balance, sure. But to remove it when it SHOULD be a given that he has aura reading, expecially when you have perks and add-ons, like BBQ and Scratched mirror, that also require the knowledge of how to counter it WITHOUT being immediately obvious the killer is using it...makes 0 sense. The games page on Freddy TELLS YOU what dream demon does, whereas unless you yourself have BBQ or scratched mirror, you'd have to look outside the game for that knowledge.
Do you honestly believe that Freddy, without doing anything, should simply know where all survivors are at all times?
His rework makes it so that survivors fall asleep over time passively. If you keep the aura reading aspect without changing anything else from what we know, that simply gives the nightmare free information on where survivors are at all points in the game for simply playing the game
Information as to where survivors are is HUGE. You mentioned A Nurses calling? Yea that’s one of the most popular perks in the game for a reason. BBQ too. There is no denying that aura reading is powerful.
In fedddys current state, it’s probably the greatest thing about him, yet he still has to go and find survivors first to get that aura reading.
I don’t want to assume you are suggesting that Freddy deserves to just see where survivors are every x seconds when they fall asleep, so I would like to know, what do you believe is a good way to implement the aura reading in Freddy’s current power rework, or do you believe that it’s okay for a killer to simply know where survivors are for free (which to me would sound fairly bias if that was your stance )
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
Honestly I am worried the new rework will make him ALOT worse. I have recently had the pleasure of seeing a good freddy in action and that has changed my opinion about the rework drastically. Knowing how a killer's power works is part of the game and something that is the easiest thing to pick up on so this is quite a stupid reason.
I can agree that the Freddy rework wouldn’t actually make him better. At least with the info we are given.
Assuming dream snares work like clown bottles, Freddy will be a 115 killer with terrible traps and insane mobility on big maps but pretty mediocre on smaller maps. And sticky worse than billy in pretty much every way (which is to be expected)
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You only ever see that load out the first like... 3 tims you play against a killer.
the issue is there are a lot of things that are complicated about freddy’s Power for more than just a few players.
On Facebook about a month ago, someone asked if Freddy could see you outside of his terror radius. UNIRONICALLY half of the people who commented on that question said no.
And when you play Freddy, you can see more than one person who clearly doesn’t understand how it works, and those are 100% of the games you win as Freddy.
Having a reminder of how his ability works pop up like 3 times, only maybe one of those times telling you that’s how it works, it isn’t enough for most players in a “casual” game.
That and really the aura reading is dumb. Even if you understand how it works, there is no reason to have a killer that straight up just knows where you are at all times, especially with the rework just sleeping everyone for free.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
I would just make it only appear the first time you hit level 50 per prestige per killer
That’s what it does
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Fences in this game are pretty silly. Haddonfield and preschool are easy examples but there is also that fence structure inside of cold wind that comes to mind too.
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More realistically just make it so that the lower ranks are better are being in higher queues.
i am tired of seeing posts about red ranks being matched with yellow ranks and explaining it is because of swf
a yellow rank in a red rank game has nothing to complain about if they are swf
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/552513#Comment_552513
Cosmetics do not impact the development of the rest of the game in any way. Artists create cosmetics, they do not design and program new features.
You will never have to stop saying that because people will continue to believe they are somehow the same 😂 logic and reasoning don’t matter here
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the fundamental issue with balancing around high level play is: what do you define as high level play?
people who are consistently rank 1?
people who have ever been to rank 1?
hours in the game?
If we truly want a system in which the game can be balanced around “high level play” the games needs a competitiveness mode. Tournament results to draw from, where everyone is playing on win and hasn’t an idea what they are doing.
that way it isn’t easier to know what change should would affect high level gameplay, what changes would not, and what changes could be implemented to improve both experiences.
very much like they do in MOBAs, which dead by daylight is most similar to (a class based objective system putting 2 teams against each other)
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I’ll be happy if I never see a “open an exit gate with Feng Min” ritual again in my life.
i think it is because there are simply less survivor rituals.
killers have sac, mori, and power rituals
survivors have escape, open exit gate, and then a bunch of generic rituals that can be done by any survivor (escape with an item, heal, do gens, save allies)
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I think the idea is a cool one. The thing is, representing the killers inability to not use a hook would be difficult.
thematically, the entity doesn’t help the survivors. The survivors don’t get anything “supernatural” to assist them. So blocking generators makes sense. Blocking hooks... I mean not so much. Again simply from a theme point of view. Maybe the entity decides it suddenly wants to help survivors. That doesn’t connect with me as much.
And breaking the closest hook would still be supernatural in nature, since a survivor isn’t doing anything (like breakdown actually have the survivor right there for example)
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Last stream you mentioned Nurse reworks. Will that be something like giving her blinks a limited number of charges For her blinks that recharge over time and then giving her 110 movement speed to compensate? Or are we able to get any spitball info based on what you guys were thinking of doing.
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Why they didn’t just go with making mom ignore instant downs x times like so many people wanted I am unsure.
i guess because it counters killer powers, but so what? They were willing to counter killer basic attacks but not 3 killers abilities a limited number of times in a game? Silly
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I agree the drawback shouldn’t be there.
though how often that drawback is actually active I can’t even begin to imagine. The only time the aura was ever revealed before was when people wanted their aura revealed.
i think the only reason they decided to keep it was that it is flavorful for Ash v walking dead, and keeping the option to revel yourself as a distraction to the killer is something they wanted to.
Just a guess
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['a 110 killer who guarantees an injured state but has the option to hit a survivor 4 times at 125 is worse than a 115 killer who can do the same without the option to hit a survivor 4 times.'
Assuming that you ever played like that. I didn't.]
What do you mean “played like that” it is a description of how the chases MUST go. Changing targets and hitting multiple people is a factor of both old and new legion, but when you need to down someone, the older legion MUST chase as a 110 killer or hit them 4 times with their power. The new legion must chase them down as a 115 kille. Both chase survivors while they are injured.
There is no “other way” to chase. Iran Joyner like you can arbitrarily decide for it to take 1 hit instead.
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on the first portion, I meant I can see where you are** legion is far different in his current form than he was. My auto correct, on this website specifically, is really wonky.
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i can’t see where you aren’t coming from. They definitely don’t feel like the same killer anymore because they aren’t relying on their power for downs anymore. And their power now isn’t essentially just BBQ that injures.
their add ons are significantly weaker now. Why they didnt give movespeed and no vault speed add ons but did give us “increased feral frenzy detection range” I will never understand.
there are definitely buffs that the currently legion NEEDS. Removing the penalty from hitting a survivor with your m1 isn’t an example I throw out often. Why that’s even there isn’t beyond me.
making the button add ons worth using. Hell, make their purple add ons worth using
give legion some reward for hitting multiples survivors with FF (like maybe reduced fatigue?) and give a reason to hit a survivor with ff while injured and/or deep wounds.
My arguments was not if legion was More fun or if the change to them was healthier to the game. My argument was simply that legion is better now than they were.
a 110 killer who guarantees an injured state but has the option to hit a survivor 4 times at 125 is worse than a 115 killer who can do the same without the option to hit a survivor 4 times.
I dont believe legion is in a good place overall, but they’re in a better place than they were
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@jeyers said:
Devs always had SWF in mind - so youre both wrong on that.
I like how this got so many downvotes despite being a factual statement confirmed by the devs more than once.
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I only read the title and I know your pain
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I don’t understand half of the downvotes on these forums, honestly 😂
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@[Deleted User] said:
yep. happened to me many times. note that it'll probably get fixed when the dedicated servers arrive
Unlikely. The reason it doesn’t work is because the killer is currently in animation when ds triggers. You can’t interrupt the killers hook animation, and they are immune to stuns at the time.
it was the same with ds before the change too, but was a bit more common since the skillcheck didn’t happen during the pick up.
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While I agree with you that the legions add ons are pretty trash and need to be reworked, and I am indifferent about being able to see blood in FF, i disagree with the notion that legion was nerfed.
unless you count legion’s entire identity as using franks mixed tape with cold dirt/stab wounds study. Then yes, legion was in fact nerfed.
the devs did point out, however, that legion started securing more kills with their rework. Which makes sense, since legion was literally one of the the worst killers in the game without those adds ons.
are they the strongest killer in the game? No. They are much better, overall, than they were though. At least without having massive variances in how good they are based entirely on what add-ons you are running.
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@NitroGames said:
@wisdom I'm saying Tier 1 and Tier 2 of NOED shouldn't be as powerful as Tier 3. I'm at Rank 1 and still get NOED 1s and 2s, so it really doesn't matter about the rank for the tier of NOED. It's just that NOED 1 and 2 are about just as powerful as NOED 3. With the time limit on the first two tiers makes the perk still usable for those tiers, but not entirely as strong as its final tier. It also allows for newer players to have a strong starting perk, but not to where it ruins other new players' experience by getting insta downed for "no reason" right before they can escape out the door.
i understand your point of view. New players are negatively affected by having a perk that strong. However, they are in fact new players.
From the dev stats we see NOED isn’t even in the top 5 most used perks in red ranks, and has a 7% usage at green ranks (across all platforms).
in terms of power level, NOED isn’t game breaking. If it was as, we wouldn’t be seeing closer to the 20% that ruin sees.
the point o dojt understands here is this. If you were a rank... 15 survivor let’s say. How is getting hit by a t3 NOED somehow More fair than getting hit by a t1? Regardless of your opinion on if the perk is strong or not, what makes the t3 version somehow funidmentally more fair for a killer to use.
and if, like me (and the devs clearly since they made the change) you are of the mindset that it isn’t somehow more fair... then why does it matter.
when NOED was changed, it was in no way buffed. It was simply made more common by making it more easily accessible by to the pool or players that actually wanted to use it.
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For auto, I would actually like to just see skillchecks happen every x seconds guaranteed. and an aura similar to well make it to let your allies know you have it.
basically remove the randomness from the perk.
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