Nothings for killers anymore
The basement which was meant to be a scary place for survivors to go into now is just another safe haven for survivors. Sure, people can't be held hostage but yet again you people bitched and whined and yet again another nerf for killers. This is getting ######### ridiculous. Pig is #########, Legion is #########, Basement plays are #########. Seriously. This is getting out of hand.
Comments
This is all incredibly recent stuff. Major survivor nerfs that have hit, since I've started, includes:
Brand New Part nerf
Insta-blinds nerf
Pallet vacuum removal
Exhaustion nerf
Pallet count nerfs
Opening up may layouts, such as Lery's and Swamp variations
Changing the lighting system and removing Moon addons
Improvement of the audio system to be more accurate/louder for killers
I mean, there's more than those, but those are all huge nerfs to survivors. "Killer mains" on this forum are a bunch of whiners that like to selectively forget everything they've gotten. Every single change I listed was warranted, and they don't include other major boons to the game, such as Spirit Fury and Bamboozle for dealing with certain mechanics. Nothing is perfect, but dear lord this game is so much better for killers than it used to be.
But, eGc iS a MaSsIvE kILlEr nErF.
Why should we be happy with "better than it used to be"?
The game was a joke this time last year, and now its just okay balance wise. Bandaids don't fix problems, they just make them easier to ignore.
You forgot the removal of infinites, I mean how DARE the devs, how dare they!
All of the things you listed were massive cancer and deserved to be gutted, with the exception of "Opening up may layouts, such as Lery's and Swamp variations" because I have no idea what you mean there
pallet vacuum was never meant to be in the game and the killer was always meant to be able to use sound to help them in chase, those were bug fixes
bug fixes are not nerfs or buffs because if you were using a bug to your advantage then you were exploiting the game
LULULULULUL GIT GUD BABY KILLERS BORROWED TIME FTW
I've played since Hag had a teleport stun and less distance to teleport to her traps. There were the old BNPs and flashlights as well. More pallets and windows. Moon offerings. Shorter Gen times. Full black L4D shirt. Worse totem spawns. Exhaustion recovered while running. Less perk options, Killers have gotten better options with their new perks for the most part.
Ignoring one side's problems or over powered aspects is never a good idea. You basically end up going "Problem X should never be solved cause Problem Y hasn't been solved yet!"
I welcome both the new end game mechanic and the basement being fixed. Not sure I find the new Legion fun though. But overall, good job devs!
"Only the very best survivors were in rank 1 at the time"
I thought we were discussing not jumping to conclusions here. Most of the "best" survivors just had all the benefits of deranking built into the game's rank by default, and all they have to do is maybe not save 3 people off hooks each match. Not repair a heap of generators each match, or hell, run a killer around all match and still get an easy depip. Faster queue times, less tryhard matches, and the other 13 killers are all huge motivations to NOT be rank 1, whereas the motivations to be there and maintain it are:
Hell, most popular streamers are popular because they're great players, and they're still likely to derank since sitting on a generator and walking out the gate are far less entertaining than running a killer for 5 gens and making risky plays. Hell from a killer side, players who are exceptional on killers like Nurse are deranked for killing TOO EFFICIENTLY.
Yes, you can argue it takes more skill to be in rank 1 now than it did before. That does not equate to the best players being there, just ones that play a balanced match of different roles, and still actively want to be there.
Gotta be honest, as a killer player I don't see why bodyblocking the basement is something you want to fight for. It was scummy as #########.
There are also only a few points where this changes anything.
Bodyblocking to grief and hold hostage, 100% should have been gone years ago.
Bodyblocking to hold survivors for the EGC death, exploitative of mechanics in a clearly unintended and overly rewarding way.
Bodyblocking for hits, not really gone, you can still get hits.
Bodyblocking to wind up a chainsaw so you can laugh at how you completely outskilled a person who basically has no other option besides an ally dying, deserved to go, Billy can afford to take a hit or two, and Leatherface is still god of the basement regardless.
Bodyblocking to set off a Pig trap 2 minutes later, scummy as #########, very similar to the EGC thing.
Bodyblocking to wait out perk timers, ie, Borrowed Time. Arguably a nerf to rare counterplay, but again not an intended play and cheesy as hell. It's a perk to punish tunnelling like a dick so this really isn't a bad nerf.
Hell, I remember earlier than that when NOED was just a perk, everyone would queue up as Jake, drop all the hooks with Saboteur, run to the furthest possible point away from the basement, and then ######### that they got 4 man slugged. People don't change, their methods do
If you wanted to block the survivors path, it's still possible to get in the way. You just can't hold the game hostage anymore. And you say all that like killer complaints didn't result in survivor things getting nerfed or changed.
@ShyN3ko The nerfs to killer were necessary, too. They were to stop cheap and cheesy methods. I don't know why anyone's complaining about this like moonwalking, holding the game hostage by blocking the stairwell, etc. was somehow good for the game health.
@Eninya Most of your points aren't nerfs at all
BNP= This should never be an argument for nerfing survivors it was broken af
Instablind= don't gives the killer an advantage just removed an unfair mechanic
palett vacuum= wen't into the game as bug and was never intended just took the devs over a year to fix
Map Layout= The most survivor sided maps are still as they were and they never changed a map as a nerf for survivors. Changing how a map is designed isn't a nerf or buff by it self
Moon offerings= got deleted because it was not working for newer maps anyway and the devs didn't wanted to make different light settings for all maps anymore, also this can't be count as a nerf or buff for one side. These can only be side effects of it
Audio changes= Currently sounds are bugged anyway. Lookimng at you Spirit, also they adjusted sounds in general not only for killers. I can easily hear stealth killers like myers, wraith and pig walking and breathing
@fluffybunny
Yes, the basement change was a necessary nerf.
Legion,too.
But pig was just a nerf.
A rly dumb nerf.
What change was made to the basement?
I missed it in the patch notes?
Also most of Legion's changes were fair, but he can be looped for the entirety of his power if there's a vault available to surivvors now. @ShyN3ko
@SunderMun The killer can't block the basement stairs anymore. So no waiting 15 seconds for Borrowed Time to run out.
Oh, I wasn't aware of this...nothing to complain about then; if borrowed time went off then that person would be tunneled if you actually went for them off the hook anyway.
The latest patch and the end game collapse are another example why these developer stumble around their offices completely clueless about game design and testing.
While I like the idea of an end game timer limiting the time survivors can annoy the killer player its just over the edge once again that the killer can close the hatch, the survivors cant re-open it, the timer is started and exit gates spawn in the same sector just 5 s travel time apart for the killer. Automatic win, no use of any brain cell required whatsoever. Just like the fact that they introduced wallhack perk after wallhack perk for killers in a game that is supposedly meant to be a hide and seek theme.
@SunderMun It makes the basement a lot less dangerous. I think it would have been a better solution to change collision only after 15-20 seconds so that the tactical aspect for stopping BT wouldn't get removed.
The main reason for this change is to prevent frustrating situations for survivors where they get trapped in the basement until the endgame collapse kills them. As a big side effect, it's a buff for BT.
Keep in mind that the basement is supposed to be extra-dangerous and not a place like anywhere else on the map.
It's supposed to be dangerous, but not a free kill on the first person you hook there if you camp them...
I can't even defend the killer community on this forum anymore. Too whiney and knee jerk reactionary.
If you can't see why this change was needed, you are just too short sighted.
@SunderMun Well, there are also things like DS and insta-heals. Speaking as a surv main, I don't think this indirect nerf to BT was necessary.
Edit: I forgot MoM which also helps with these situations in the later stages of the match.
How the hell ist the EGC killer sided? It's whole presentation is geared towards survivor exitement.
In normal rounds it triggers ehen the game is theoretically over for survivors.... as a win.
The idea that the killer has to open a door to trigger the EGC himself is bullshit, "here have an open exit, another shortcut to winning akin the hatch"
As the last survivor its is a third chance to escape normally after THE NOW ACTUALLY FREE HATCH is closed. I feel the need to point out that'd the game be over if the survivor junped the hatch, but survivors have to get another slightly harder but nicely presented chance instead of dying instantly.
Not even gonna bother explaining unneeded pig nerfs. Enjoy the bait/bribe cosmetics.
@NoShinyPony I mean, insta-heals arent common at all and DS isn't used as much as it used to be, and as for MoM...the number of times I've seen someone pull it off I can count on one hand, and I play this game, both roles, a lot.
Honestly? BT in that situation SHOULD give the unhooked survivor a chance; that is, they should be able to at least have some form of chase rather than being locked in the basement until it's over. That is the whole point of the perk - to counter people tunneling those you unhook. I will only use it for this reason.
I just had game with 4 Blendettes in similar outfit hiding from me from very start not going any of objectives. When I found one and hooked her, noone went for rescue, she died, when I found second - she DCed as soon as I downed her, third made same and hatch spawned literally at 4th location, so she excaped right after 3rd disconnected. Game lasted for 15 minutes, I lost pudding offering, cause had like 7k points, game was stupid and they were trying to mock me in end-game chat.
"Thanks" for giving hatch to survivors unconditionally and create another abuse of game mechanics.
"Good job" devs.
@SunderMun I don't see tunneling as a black-and-white thing. Especially when the gens are done.
We had a situation a couple of weeks ago where not enough people were playing killer, which resulted in bad queue times for survivors. I don't want to see more killer mains get frustrated and stop playing the game.
Killers complain that survivors can take the game hostage: nothing happens for 2 years.
Survivors complain that killers can take the game hostage: gets fixed in 1 week.
@ShyN3ko The pig nerf would have been fine if they accompanied it with a buff. I understand why they changed it, but they have to understand that that was the strongest way to play her. :/
Once again, the sky isn’t falling.
"Slow the EGC timer, if someone wears a RBT."
This would be fine. @fluffybunny
But delete a complete ability in endgame is just dumb.
Its like :"Trapper bear traps dont work in endgame, because people could die".
@ShyN3ko Please don't give them these kind of ideas.
@Delfador
Ohhhhhhhhhhh.
Sry
You're kidding right? This game isn't survivor-sided and it hasn't been for a while now. Anyone who says otherwise clearly hasn't been playing for very long.
proof it
@Dreamnomad
You cant talk about things as buffs to killers.
Especially not on here.
You get bombed with down votes.
@mcNuggets
Yes because how dare killers block the basement to be guaranteed a two man for going out and getting some food meanwhile they just blocked the basement.
This had to be changed due to EGC.
This.
Also dont forget a killer is 100% of his team so allways as good as he is. However survivors are only 25% of their team so if their teammates arent at least as good as themself they lower their overall strength. So you can really only compare a 4 man swf where the survivors are the same skill lvl and use voice chat to a killer or no matter how good they are they are at a disadvantage.
BHVRS statistics dont reflect that at all. Also dont forget most people also on rank 1 are still bad.
We could ofc go into detail much more but i didnt want to write too much or noone would read it at all.
I don’t see where you’re coming from at all. This is just a QoL change. The devs aren’t either sided or bias— even if the CM’s and devs play survivor, that does little to game designers perspective.
I don’t see the issue at all- I play survivor and killer. Killers are in a much better standpoint than where they were in 2016, but I don’t want Killer to have consistent four K’s with zero skill involved. But, reading these statements makes it feel as if some omitted the consistent nerfs and buffs to both sides.
If you get taken to an infinite, you should give up the chase as you’re really just wasting time.
@ShyN3ko Or Nurse being unable to blink. Or Hillbilly unable to use his chainsaw.
Its basically the same thing. The Pig didn't need to get gutted like a fish.
@ShyN3ko I believe the issue was that everyone could leave ('cause the timer's going down) and the killer had nothing to pressure but the boxes and the survivor only had the boxes to go for. It'd make the Pig the strongest in endgame by a long shot. She'd essentially have a kill, even if people did safe saves.
Honestly I think it'd be fine if they gave the traps buffs for in game use, like hiding the boxes until a gen goes off, making it harder to take it off first try. I believe how it works is that the boxes are chosen all at once, so it may have to be reworked to accomplish this.
In my opinion the RBT doesnt work right.
I find the right key after ~1 min.
So in the endgame, I could escape.
@fluffybunny
But I dont know what the devs want.
The survivors stay in the match vs a endgame killer.
And then the survivors fail and 1 or 2 get on the hook.
The Pig made no mistakes, but she get punished for it.
I've had matches where I've found the key first try and matches where it was the last one searched @ShyN3ko It's far too random imo and I don't think the first searched should ever give the key. I also think survivors shouldn't see the aura when active too, though, and that that add-on should be changed to always hide the boxes so you actually have to look. I think we could try that to see how it goes in a PTB. C:
As for
The survivors stay in the match vs a endgame killer.
And then the survivors fail and 1 or 2 get on the hook.
The Pig made no mistakes, but she get punished for it.
I think the issue was that pressuring one person on the box is easy and everyone could just leave. She could follow a person around until their head blew up, essentially, which can be quite cheap. I'd honestly rather her just get a buff to her kit.
@fluffybunny
She could follow a person around until their head blew up, essentially, which can be quite cheap.
She can still do this?
Ok not in the endgame.
But yeah, I agree with you.
We must test it in the PTB.
BTW, Freddy is a endgame killer.
Delete his ability in the endgame,too?
@ShyN3ko
Yes, but she could do this before and I've seen people on the forums express concern over the pig just following around the trapped individual until the helmet goes off.
Freddy isn't really an endgame killer. His power is actually weakest endgame without the help of perks. His perks are endgame, but they did nerf his perks relating to endgame.
@fluffybunny
I still want my endgame killer.
Its was a little counter vs genrush.
Do you take in Ruin? Honestly that's typically enough to counter how fast gens get done. Otherwise it's all about pressure. Going from one to the next is important and knowing when to continue chase and how to take your loops are important, too.
Saying "I want an endgame killer" would be like saying "I want a hatch build" for survivor. I don't think it's good to go into a game, banking on everyone falling like flies and having to rely on that particular endgame. Same for killer. @ShyN3ko I forgot to @ you
@fluffybunny
I hate Ruin.
I never take it, because I just hate it.
Btw my chases are rly short.
But 1 survivor need only 80 seconds for 1 gen.
So my chases must be 20-30 seconds and then they cant gen rush me.
But thats impossible, because the hit and hook animation.
And I want my endgame killer, because I liked it.
"Its not over,I still have my plan"
"Lets play a game"
Endgame pig was just a good feeling.
@ShyN3ko Is it the totem aspect you don't like? I believe the Plague had a perk that's helpful for keeping survivors off of certain gens at the start. Discordance is also very helpful in locating where the pressure is highest.
I heard someone suggest extending the timer while the killer is in an active chase once. I believe it was like every new chase would give survivors a debuff, that way chasing a survivor wouldn't be as restrictive. I'd be up for testing that out on the PTB, too.
I know people suggested slowing the timer for the end game collapse and instead they just removed the power. Does it still work if it goes off before end game starts? You can still technically have an end game build. NOED and Blood Warden are really strong together, for instance.
Ambush + Noed = You get 1
You use 1 RBT.
You hook him = Bloodwarden
You get 1 or 2 survivors.
Use 1 or 2 RBT.
With this tactic you get 2 - 3 survivors in the endgame.
But the gates must be open.
And the ability must work in the endgame.
I still hate this "fix".
Because both abilities should work in the complete game.
Just delete 1 ability, because the endgame starts is just a stupid "fix".
@fluffybunny 🐇
@ShyN3ko 🐈️
Well, what's more than likely to happen is that you would get one before the gates open, so that would leave Blood Warden for when you get your second person by catching them trying to open the door, etc. You could also bring along Remember Me and make sure to kill the obsession before the end game. I was talking more of a perk build than a killer, though. Any killer can be an end game killer with the right perks. I don't think any of the other killers would have a strong end game effect, so I can understand why they would change that.
I think they've essentially made her helmets be a main game affect. So used to create pressure before the end game. I think that's what they're intending. She does need a buff to her traps if they're going to change that aspect of her, though, in my opinion.
If I say anything you don't understand, let me know by the way.