The judgement has the most boring and uninteractive gameplay ever, worse than nurse.
So why do I have to deal with a killer that's seeing my aura at all times, can attack from anywhere on the map, has been buffed to make aiming even easier and on top of that, denies the use of a lot of perks cause of his non hook power???
Really bhvr devs don't play their game.
Comments
>If you're anxiety over a video game is so bad that you can't handle any
aspect of it you shouldn't be playing but if you're okay with this
reasoning then tou must be okay with a new survivor who has special
basekit abilities that allow them to negate pretty much all killer
powers and perks because the survivor players who have anxiety can't
handle them.
lets not move the goalpost these are your words
this exist in the form of endurance and judgement also has it when they teleport out of the exile
Everyone else went down pretty fast (I had to get hatch) which isn't uncommon for my games against Judgement so I believe people when they say they're struggling against Judgement I just think it's mostly a skill issue and instead of trying to learn they complain.
To be fair, BHVR did their thing with the original voted power. It was meant to be a frontal beam of light, but they have decided it was far too strong and easy to use, so they have been changing how the power works since then. But yeah, since the first demonstration of the power i've been saying this killer would be hated by the same community who voted for it (I love Judgment, but i am the minority).
The goalpost wasn't moved. I said:
special basekit abilities that allow them to negate pretty much all killer powers and perks
Negate ALL. I don't mean for 10s. I mean for the match. Judgement shuts down sabos and shuts down dozens of hook based perks. So give me the survivor BASEKIT that allows me to keep a killer's whole build offline, as well as their add-ons. Because if I bring DS, DH, Deli, and Self-Preaeravtion along with a flashlight literally none of my things work for the entire match, and the killer still has perks on top of that basekit.
So please do tell me the survivior equivalent of that.
Because if a survivor perk existed that was "You cannot be hooked, you can only be sent to the floozle realm, where when rescued, you spawn healthy instead of injured" would be ran as much as borrowed time back in the day and would eventually be begged to be base-kit just like BT was.
Oh, but I said basekit by default. Judgment gets her benefits that avoid all these regular aspects of the game for free. She doesn't need a perk to do it. The perk slots are for cheesing with aura. But you almost see the point. It's like all these things existing would be unfair to the other side.
Basekit BT was added because a perk was filling in a hole to make the game playable. Same reason infinites were removed. How on earth is this example still being cited in 2026?
I agree with you basekit killer powers vs survivor perks is night and day, I guess that's why I was arguing against making killer power things into survivor perks but your point stands that it's very strong. I don't know how to address that though without basically turning every new killer into "dash slop but green instead of blue". Your point stands about power creeping killer powers compared to survivor baseline though.
also though, at the same time, when did trapper, ghostface, etc. get buffs when shoulder got released? You can't complain about survivors getting power crept by new killers but not also acknowledge that older killers get power crept by new survivor perks. It's absolutely a cycle on both sides so neither gets a "slam dunk" of I win.
I'm sure every great solo Survivor finds their teammates go down pretty fast against Killers they can loop for a long time.
If "everyone else" in your games are going down pretty fast, why should balance changes be made around thee? You are 1 and they are 3.
Is it reasonable for a player with hundreds, if not thousands, of hours to ask those with less to "get on my level?"
Is it not more reasonable to look at the typical experience of players and ask the developers to "meet them at their level?"
Perks are optional, and many of the perks being nerfed are old. M1 killers are as old as SB and WoO. But I don't see how the solution is to nerf strong perks like StB and a whole bunch of other perks, while buffing a bunch of perks that help M1s so that now survivors just get thrashed by even the lowest tier killers. There's nothing being done to make survivor better right now, just worse. They could have buffed those killer perks without nuking survivor.
Tbf we haven't had a dash killer in a second, but we have had strong killers with overstuffed kits. Jason has power crept half the roster while having zero identity of his own. He's just a bunch of killers rolled into one. The Judgment issues are kinda easier. Perks that activate upon being hooked need to be changed to hook states if they're going to do something like this. They also need to have a small window for flashlight saves, like in 2v8. Getting the beam curve time is a different matter, but a killer that turns off a masive chunk of the survivior existence is just bad design.
Counterpoint is it fair to killer players to have a killer that is otherwise mostly balanced nerfed just because your average survivor doesn't wanna put in even a modicum of thought or effort into a game?
And During that time when the judgement is aiming the survivors are able to move and stay away from the beam. You do see the pillar as it's charging.
Disregarding my thoughts on the frequency of beams being literally dropped on heads, would that not count as skill then? The killer would have to both mess around with the aiming to get onto the moving survivor which as you say is quite difficult. It would be then the survivors skill in maneuvering vs the killers ability to correctly follow them and time it no?
Either way I've said my piece of telling why I believe Xendritch has a point.
The goalpost wasn't moved. I said:
special basekit abilities that allow them to negate pretty much all killer powers and perks
Negate ALL.
>
lets not move the goalpost these are your words
this exist in the form of endurance and judgement also has it when they teleport out of the exile
and now with the goalpost moved i shall address this
Judgement shuts down sabos and shuts down dozens of hook based perks. So
give me the survivor BASEKIT that allows me to keep a killer's whole
build offline, as well as their add-ons
the judgement also doesn't benefit from hook based perks and it's why you don't see them on her just like how healing perks are countered by plague this isn't new
>So please do tell me the survivior equivalent of that.
i would have said old vigil but now that's nerfed. otr still gives 40 seconds on top of the 10 second base endurance it's not as cracked as 80 seconds it's still extremely strong it's just survivors have a plethora of options and won't use it
That's not a counterpoint.
Yes, it is fair and it is necessary to rebalance a Killer who is consistently overperforming against the typical Survivor.
The Killer in question is not "mostly balanced" if they are overperforming.
This is a live service game. If survivors ever "put in even a modicum of thought or effort into a game" then the Killer in question can be rebalanced accordingly.
Unless Killer players have delusions of grandeur, they would recognize the balance changes as necessary.
…I wonder, do you believe that Killers always "put in even a mocidum of thought or effort?" Are they not also the benefactors of balancing for those who cannot or will not?
The killer gets to pick their perks knowing what works best for that killer; the survivors don't know the killer in advance. No one could actually think this is an acceptable defense. If you really mean this then you must be okay with survivors knowing who the killer is an advance so they can pick their perks accordingly.
Do you know what basekit means? But even at its best, Vigil didn't turn off killer powers completely.
But they weren't over performing until the latest round of buffs which are now reverted. So what do you do when the numbers are fine but survivors want nerfs anyway because they hate the very idea of the killer?
Also accusing Judgment players of not having to think is the worst route you could go cuz you have to think trying to aim the beam up close otherwise you're never hitting anyone.
the goalpost shifts once more
>So please do tell me the survivior equivalent of that.
and
Do you know what basekit means? But even at its best, Vigil didn't turn off killer powers completely.
the survivor equivalent is bt but i decided to let you shift from your words to a different topic but old vigil cut killer powers and status effects by 66% that's strong and it stacked btw
>The killer gets to pick their perks knowing what works best for that
killer; the survivors don't know the killer in advance. No one could
actually think this is an acceptable defense. If you really mean this
then you must be okay with survivors knowing who the killer is an
advance so they can pick their perks accordingly.
also why do you think the survivor meta is the way it is not including the gen rush perks
Ds Dh resilience lithe current five moves current windows (and other perks i'm forgetting)
because they are passive and are universal to 99% of killers which discourage interaction, waste time and give greatest benefit without large or any restriction besides being hooked
This was what I originally said:
a new survivor who has special basekit abilities that allow them to negate pretty much all killer powers and perks because the survivor players who have anxiety can't handle them.
Basekit
B A S E K I T
You're the one who can't even find the goalpost because you keep talking about perks. A perkless Judgment gets to shut down survivor perks and sabos with their BASEKIT abilities. This is a fact. 10s of Endurance doesn't negate most killer perks and powers for the length of a match, unlike Judgment's abilities. If you think 10s of [nerfed] Endurance is the same as being forced to be perkless all match and never even getting to attempt a blind or sabo then I actually don't know what to tell you.
What does you randomly bringing up the survivor meta have to do with anything?
This was what I originally said:
a new survivor who has special
basekit abilities that allow them to negate pretty much all killer
powers and perks because the survivor players who have anxiety can't
handle them.
Basekit
B A S E K I T
You're the one who can't even find the goalpost because you keep talking about perks
>lets not move the goalpost these are your words
this exist in the form of endurance and judgement also has it when they teleport out of the exile
i did address it and then when i said the goalpost was moving because you brought up
>Because if I bring DS, DH, Deli, and Self-Preaeravtion along with a
flashlight literally none of my things work for the entire match, and
the killer still has perks on top of that basekit.
>.for 10s. This killer who negates "killer anxiety" gets to do it the
whole match by never allowing sabos and never activating hook-based
perks.
and it's why i said you were moving the goalpost
Having spent over a dozen hours playing as the Judgement, I'm confident a numbers adjustment is not the reason this Killer has been overperforming. …but if your arguement is to wait and see, okay. Lets do that. We can all shut up and watch as the Judgement is rendered unplayable because the concerns of the community were not heard.
…regarding your last comment, I was pondering your ideology more broadly—you sound as though you believe Killer players put more effort into the game than Survivors. Understanding your perspective would help explain why you feel Judgement players have earned their victories (and why Survivors have not).
I mean yes killers in general can't afford to play brain off (except you're ghoul) because they're alone and have way more to keep track of, 4 survivors and 7 gens on the map and they have to weigh if taking a chase is worth, if they need drop chase how to use their power and when it's all a lot to keep track of (unless you're ghoul) so yes in general killers I believe have to put more thought in than survivors who have teammates who can take pressure off them and is a role that in general is less mechanically involved.
Not to say survivors don't need to think at all they absolutely do and I wish more survivors would but survivors can get away with not thinking more than killers can speaking broadly.
Saying Judgement isn't S-Tier/High A tier is the new "Ghoul isn't that good". Bro you're in denial about how strong this killer is.
Anyone still claiming that survivors can play brain off and be successful is lying to themself. How often do we have people complaining about "brainless" teammates losing the survivors the game. How often do we hear that doing this or that without thinking gets survivors killed. Then they turn around and claim survivors can win without thinking? The reality is that this game has become too competitive and too sweaty for either side to expect success playing that way. There is plenty of information survivors need to keep track of if they want to win and they don't get any of it basekit.
Mechanical simplicity doesn't mean a lack of depth, DbD is popular in large part because those simple mechanics lead to such depth, a day to learn the absolute basics, ages to master, its why so many people consider you a "baby" until you have 1k hours.
I feel like alot of the idea behind "brainless" survivors is that often times there is large portions of the match where the only thing you have to really pay attention to is hitting a skillcheck. This is typically when streamers are able to read their chat and such.
When you consider the developers target an average escape rate of 40%, Survivors technically have to work harder than Killers for their wins. What that hard work looks like is often ambiguous, but I think you touched on it well.
Days, months, and years are behind player decision-making. There is a lot of information to keep track of.
DBD has become very competitive, meaning players are turning to external resources to learn tips & tricks to accelerate their development, but not everyone is trying to be an expert at the game. We must acknowledge how long it takes to learn the fundamentals before accusing players of not trying hard enough.
To your first point I agree, they didnt' have to nuke the perks just like in 6.1.0 they didn't need to nerf perks. BHVR typically balances solely based on useage so anything at the top is suspect to getting nerfed (before you come for me, yes killer popular perks should be nerfed too if they're torching survivor popular perks). And yes I agree we haven't had a dash slop killer in awhile but that's exactly the issue. Unless its a dash killer BHVR will pretty regularly either under hit the mark(singu pre-emp nerfs, houndmaster, alien, springtrap) or extremely over-build killers(First, Judgement, Jason, Ghoul). The dash killers they can kind of get correct, but anything else is either trash or broken strong, and being real "broken strong" sells more than "its a weak M1 meh killer that gets trounced"
I have literally seen survivors do nothing all game and escape, it's unserious to think killers can get away with anything similar to that. Again not complaining survivor has no depth not saying survivors never have to think but it's an absolute fact survivors can get away with doing way less if their teammates pull the slack which is a luxury killer does not have.
If The Judgment is not heavily nerfed soon it will cause real damage to the game.
The killer becomes much more powerful in a 3v1. It's why tunneling is the most commonly used strategy. If the killer lost a match where one of the four survivors was in fact doing nothing then the killer suck at the game, at the very least in comparison to the survivors in that match (nothing wrong with being bad or learning by the way, but lets be realistic about their skill). There is no holding up slack for a bad teammate, there is no carrying a team, weak links get tunneled and then the rest of the survivors die. Your statement proves how much more leeway for skill you are willing to give killers over survivors.
Ratting for hatch can let them do nothing but the survivors don't win that match, the killer won and that survivor doomed their team for the pity floor door.
I have literally seen it with my own eyes there is no theoretical argument to be made. A survivor can do maybe one gen and not munch else and escape, you can say "well the killer just sucked then" which yeah sure but that wasn't the discussion being had it was about which side has to put in more thought in order to win more often.
Of course I can beat a bad killer without thinking (and the number of spirits I see in 2v8 hardly using their phase really drives the point home every time) but the moment its a skilled killer I need everything and if the other survivors don't lock in as well we all lose. As killer, I can absolutely beat bad survivors without thinking but once again the moment they are skilled I need to lock in. Both sides have to put thought in if they want to beat skilled opponents, you are just too biased to admit that. This discussion is inherently tied to the skill of the players in question.
And in your example, the survivor did a generator, whether you like it or not that isn't nothing its essential to the survivors escaping.
Usage shouldn't matter, performance should, and I highly doubt WoO was overperforming. If usage mattered the last thing to happen to Pop and Ruin wouldn't have been buffs, and Pain Res would have gotten another nerf. In the last batch of numbers they showed us iirc it was the number one killer perk in all regions.
I think Springtrap is actually perfect, and he remains popular. He's got mutiple abilities and is fun to play against. And no dash. They kind of nailed it there. Houndmaster is just a buggy mess. There's potential otherwise.
But look at the trend in your list. The busted killers are pay only, the others are shards. The problem is money, and the question is can BHVR get enough money from a majority killer base who have to wait in an increasingly long line if no one wants to play survivor? The amount of 50/50s I know leaning killer now—myself included—does not bode well for the future. There has to be an incentive to play the role. I currently have nothing on the horizon making me want to do so.
If you think holding m1 on a gen is equal to knowing how to use your killer power + understanding loops + understanding macro then I don't think we're ever going to agree what counts as thought and effort.
And why was that survivor able to just sit and hold m1 on a generator the whole match? Because the killer never bothered to pressure them off it or chase them in any way. You are refusing to correctly identify why the survivor was able to do that. Survivors need to understand killer powers, loops, and macro if they want to survive against a skilled killer. This is not a one sided thing and treating it as such is ridiculous.
Sometimes the killer just finds the 3 other people repeatedly like it's really not uncommon to not see the 4th survivor until one of the survivors are dead. I'm not refusing to identify anything that's just how killer works sometimes.
And the killer is downing and hooking (or slugging) those survivors in a timely manner? Cause if not we are right back to player skill.
For the Judgment it's hold M2 towards the gen aura then press M1. Not even a skill check there.
I'll also defend The Judgement alongside you for the exact same reasons but of course people on this forum are already downvoting and dogpiling on you. typical.
Survivors were just used to win so much, but new killers are very powerfull and need skill to be beaten, survivors can't accept it.
It's more like killers got so used to easy wins that all new killers have to be designed to need only the IQ of a tadpole to get a 4k with their eyes closed.
I hardly disagree. I think Ghoul is very easy to the point where he's unhealthy for the game but that's hot topic since his out. If all killers have to work for injuries and downs there shouldn't be killer who injures you for free with no counterplay just by looking at you, same with his dash into instacancel into another free hit. Also his window to leap onto someone is incredibly long. But apart from that I think that people underrate how hard killers are it's all the mmr reset pairing you with people who play once in a while against killers playing win or die tournaments. I swear for 9 years I'm playing I've never had almost every game of killers with the most busted possible loadout to make win almost impossible.
You're right, it's the MMR reset, just a couple more weeks and solo queue will be a utopia.
You said the exact reason why. They don't play their own game, or they don't play the survivor role.
BHVR is biased as hell and STILL makes broken asf killers while allowing other broken asf killers like Nurse and Blight to exist for years, and then now has the audacity to nerf stuff like Windows, sprint burst, vigil, Shoulder, etc, when the game is already overwhelmingly killer-sided, especially in solo queue.
I'm effing tired of these trash devs that don't know how to balance their own game. It's absolutely embarrasing and infuriating. People need to stop supporting these terrible devs so they can learn their lesson.
Game is well balanced. Next patch will bring new fresh air to killer role, sadly not enough fresh air to survivor role other than making begginer perks no one will use that much helpful. I would love to enjoy the vault speed meta, but with every killer being on 80-160 ping it won't do anything as I get hit 5m behind windows even with Finesse and is reason I stopped playing it. It's insanely unfair perk to m1 killers and low ping killers while not doing anything in most games because of the ping. I think that more of balance we are speaking about "fun" element. When killer is significantly more fun to play than playing against. Purse example is Judgment, First or Ghoul. While they are insanely fun to play, they are beyond unfun to go against because they have no real counterplay or skill expression that would change one or other count for favor. If you go against good Bubba, you are dooomed, but they deserve it. If you go against First whose whole gameplay is gambling with no real reliable and consistent counterplay on either side, that's nothing amusing. That doesn't mean that the game would be either-sided. In high MMR the game is still heavy survivor sided even against top tier killers because teams know to split on 3 different gens, wait out pain res dms, can loop for some time and play smart while efficient too. On low MMR the game is defienetly heavy killer sided because survivor just run in straight line ignoring everything and getting two tapped.