Opinions nerfed Sprint Burst
So, now after almost 5 days of nerfed SB, how are we feeling? I never really used it often when playing survivor, but I do notice that the survivors barely make any distance now playing as killer, it is still really good for pre leaving, but I do notice a big difference, thoughts?
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Perks
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dead perk
again, I have no idea why you're being so aggressive… I dont use SB and dodge 95% of beam snipes just by moving… SB is not really being used well when you just have to take two steps to the left or the right, again 40s VS 6s… you can play however you wan't I am just stating a fact, you can physically move in time without SB.
Being so aggressive, ah.
Okay, then do what you wanna do - I'll do what I wanna do, Platinum still died and was struggling due to OOO and frantically panicking over having an S tier snipe at her Eleven model.
I'm not going to go back and forth with you over tone-policing, think whatever you want about "aggression".
Apparently being analytical on the DBD forums is aggression.
I think prerunning earlier means the perk is 30% less effecting than it was. If you use it like a pocket dead hard the time duration reduction barely matters. And I can do it 4 or 5 times a match depending on healing available.
There are better perks, there are more effective perks. SB went a long, long time without adjustment and it was a non-trigger speed boost that didn't require positioning or interaction with anything but the shift key to trigger. It should be a weaker haste than lithe, for instance, which requires a vault. It should be meaningfully weaker, and now it is, as it can be done anywhere.
And, frankly speaking, SB just led to people getting tunneled. It's a good thing that it took a back seat. There are other valid options to replace it, so I don't particularly understand people being as heated about the nerf to SB specifically.
Your tone was fine. Some people here take things to personal places rather quickly in an emotional plea they employed to garner them some false authority or clout. It's becoming more and more common lately in the forums. Don't let it bother you. Not that you need to be told.
Took them long enough.
And I laugh whenever I see people say things like "people are only complaining about exhaustion perks because of Vigil". Personally I've always championed for all these perks to get nerfed and I suspect many others here have as well.
I'm really tired of this argument, because it ultimately boils down to 'If you don't willingly give up, I'll switch targets and tunnel'.
I feel as if Lithe has become the defacto exhaustion perk now. It's easily the most consistent perk out of the bunch for the various situations the killer roster will put you in.
Dramaturgy has been my perk of choice for the funnies since it released, so I'm glad at least my general load out is unaffected.
Hard to believe such a popular and kmd perk like sprint burst got taken down a peg honestly.
Previously it was used as a means to get out from a deadzone when trying to do a gen and killer approached , with the nerf its completely useless for this now.
That's just about as uncharitable and disingenuous of an argument as you could make, but sure. Do as you will I guess.
i am probably in the minority that never had a problem with sprint burst and didn’t think it needed a nerf. I’ll take it though since it may improve my survivor matches with less people walking everywhere trying to not activate it.
Yeah, I mean it's whatever for me.
I take multi-month breaks for a reason.
I gave the exact same footage to a killer main friend and he literally saw what I described - using SB to gain distance away from her beam. I don't care for validation on the forums, the upvote, or downvote system and most of the time I'm talking to people who just look at the map as if it's some type of plain where objects don't matter, just cooldown math.
It's quite interesting, I always say I'd love to talk to survivor mains and then I come on here to divulge information and get called aggressive - yet I talk to killer mains for the most part, even if a disagreement occurs, I can still walk away from the conversation thinking it was an alright conversation.
I think it's just the vast majority of the survivor playerbase looks at specific things, go to content creators, and regurgitate talking points they see. I'm not saying killer players do not do that either, but even when I can disagree with them - they do not take it personally and have a meltdown - so, it is what it is.
Edit: ah yes, if people choose to downvote the comment here. - you are all participating in a bandwagon fallacy. - regardless, I think this will be my last post on these forums, see you all in the fog.
Is it wrong though? Anytime you ditch a chase because it's too hard, you can make the same argument. It's not like this is the first time this excuse has been used, either. And nothing's stopping people from dropping it on Lithe next.
In a meta dominated by two powerhouses—where most players use Splint Burst and some occasionally play DH—I feel that adding Lithe to the lineup mentioned above has created a more diverse meta than before.
Furthermore, I believe that if Balance Landing—which was nerfed in the past because it was too powerful on certain terrains—were given an appropriate buff tailored to the current meta, we could create an even more diverse Dash Park meta.
It is wrong, and I'll thank you to not make assumptions about my opinions before you even inquire to the nature of them. At no point did I come even remotely close to 'If they don't get up I will tunnel.' That's an insultingly low bar strawman to set up for your argumentation with someone whose opinion you don't even understand.
Killers ditching chases that will take too much time is considered broadly a critical skill for killers. Even other survivors on this forum have agreed that SB can cause tunneling. If every time I approach Sable she disappears like a bottle rocket, it's obvious I'm not going to chase Sable. I'm going to start ignoring her outright whenever I have another option. It's not illogical by any measure, and I'm not obligate in any way to chase the Sable in that scenario. So I don't. It's just not efficient.
Yes, the argument could be used on Lithe as well - that doesn't make the argument less valid. Things that create tunneling incentives are things many of us just do not care for. If someone sabo's often, I'm more likely to tunnel them. Same for if one person has SB, I am more likely to ignore them and hit their slower teammates.
The problem isn't that the Sable didn't give up - the problem is that Sable has a tool the others don't that make her disproportionately resource intensive to deal with. So I'll first target people who did not bring that resource. If I kill everyone else first then I'll only need to hunt the Sable once.
This isn't a 'one and done' complaint. Both sides want things that encourage tunneling to be addressed. It's a gradient. It's not as though 'Well now that SB has been nerfed tunneling will not be a thing, right?' That was not, is not, and will never be the point. Equally, we don't want people to just give up or be tunneled. That's a gross mischaracterization.
You are arguing that them using a tool that makes them harder to beat in chase will make you tunnel someone else. Given that you are running this line in defense of a nerf to said tool, I think it's a pretty fair assumption that you are arguing from an expectation that this survivor should drop said tool.
While it's not directly telling them to give up, it IS telling them that they can't use those tools that give them an advantage in this field, or else you'll tunnel.
But it makes it a colossal problem. Because it's not -just- Lithe. It's also Overcome, and Dead Hard, and Dramaturgy, and whatever other tool they might deploy in chase that you don't like. So Sprint Burst is on the chopping block today, what about tomorrow? And the day after?
Are we going down the list until every single chase-perk is banned?
Yes, and this is fundamentally the purpose of survivor perks that are oriented on chases. This is a very wide swath of survivor perks that are all susceptible to the exact same argument. And you don't even need to stop there, because while one person brings a chase perk, another brings a healing perk and then you can drop the argument that 'healing can make future chases cost resources, so it makes me tunnel the healers!' and then that entire line-up of perks is on the chopping block.
That is the exact problem.
And that is definitely not true. Because the game's baseline design encourages tunnelling, and we see how 'sides' reacted when BHVR attempted to tackle that one.
The only way that people seem to be willing to 'fix tunnelling' is via one singular solution: Nerf survivors.
And since doing so will not address the root problems with the game's design, IE:
No amount of survivor nerfs will EVER end the use of this argument.
Ultimately, this means that the line '[Perk] encourages tunnelling and thus should be nerfed' is an eternal complaint that leverages an advantage killers already have in order to create an even bigger advantage.
And to illustrate, let me pitch something to you that would 'fix' your complaint, that you would probably recognise as something that will -never- be approved for launch:
If one person having SB encourages tunnelling, then from now on, when one person equips SB, all survivors automatically get its benefits.
Problem solved, right?
I've been playing with Sprint Burst pretty much non stop today and I think it's still pretty decent.
It doesn't seem like it's an instant chase-ender if you use it while a killer's approaching, which is a knock to its strengths for sure, but it also still has its uses and it's not bad to get that much extra distance before a chase starts. Holding onto it and 99ing it seems still strong (though I kinda suck at doing that lol) and it still lets you zip out of the way of certain attacks.
I'll have to get some more experience playing against it before I can form a full opinion, but first impressions seem pretty positive.
Kinda wild to say, but I do think it's not the best Exhaustion perk anymore. Ten years of it being the completely uncontested best (legitimate) Exhaustion perk in the game, and now it passes along the crown to Lithe…
Still, it's comfortably sitting alongside the other good Exhaustion perks, so not a huge loss.
You are saying that it beat the old Dead Hard? Old Dead Hard was more versatile than Sprint Burst was even before this nerf.
Forgive formatting: I'm unsure how you did that, but I do like the organization of it. I'm going to shorten your quotes not to misquote you, but for brevity and avoiding a wall of text. Or, I guess, more of a wall of text. (Edit: Found how ya did it. Yipee.)
I think it's a pretty fair assumption that you are arguing from an expectation that this survivor should drop said tool.While it's not directly telling them to give up, it IS telling them that they can't use those tools that give them an advantage in this field, or else you'll tunnel.No. No, it's not a fair assumption that I am arguing with an expectation they should drop the tool. My problem is not with survivor agency. I don't mind ignoring someone running SB - it's just part of the game to me. I'm happy to ignore them and kill the weaker links in the team structure. That's how this game works. My problem isn't that SB exists nor is my problem that they should drop it. My problem is that as long as one person has it and another does not, this creates a more obvious disparity that can, will, and should be taken advantage of by a killer, leading to a phenomenon most people find distasteful: Tunneling.
But it makes it a colossal problem. Because it's not -just- Lithe. It's also Overcome, and Dead Hard, and Dramaturgy, and whatever other tool they might deploy in chase that you don't like. So Sprint Burst is on the chopping block today, what about tomorrow? And the day after?Are we going down the list until every single chase-perk is banned?No. Chase perks are not the problem. The disparity of one person having them and the other person not on a given survivor team is the problem. I would have no problem with a team of four survs all running lithe, or SB : In such events my argumentation that they cause tunneling would not hold up to scrutiny. My problem is that insofar as they perks exist, a state in created in which either all survivors are bottlenecked into running one, or they accept not running them leads to being the easier target and thus being tunneled.
Yes, and this is fundamentally the purpose of survivor perks that are oriented on chases. This is a very wide swath of survivor perks that are all susceptible to the exact same argument.Yes. That is touching on my precise issue. I celebrate perk variety on both sides, but the survivors have a unique issue: What do you do if someone runs four boon perks, while everyone else has a distribution of chase, information, and gen perks? Nothing. The boon player dies first, more than likely, and the scenario all but assured the killers most valid option is to tunnel them whether they like it or not.
If there was an allotment that made Survivors pick a chase perk this would not be an issue, but as a result of them existing, it further galvanizes killers to tunnel. Note I said further galvanizes them, as I'm under no illusion that either side is going to stop moving goal-posts on this. Some killers will always tunnel, some survs will always call things tunneling when they are not. I'm under no illusion otherwise.
The only way that people seem to be willing to 'fix tunneling' is via one singular solution: Nerf survivors.+
No amount of survivor nerfs will EVER end the use of this argument.Ultimately, this means that the line '[Perk] encourages tunneling and thus should be nerfed' is an eternal complaint that leverages an advantage killers already have in order to create an even bigger advantage.
This is just an us vs. them argument wrapped in a bow, but I don't think you're doing it disingenuously or maliciously. I do not care if Killers will eternally cry about something, just as I do not care if Survivors will eternally cry about something. The frequency and constancy of moving goal posts on both sides is not productive and I am not bothered by it.
However saying 'nerf survivors' is the only fix is a cop-out for both of us. We can do better than that. There are options. Specifying chase as a required perk slot isn't something I like the idea of, but it would be a solution and most survivors already do this and thus would not consider it a nerf. Alternatively we could institute hard punishments on Killers for tunneling.
Simply throwing our hands up and bemoaning the past dictating the future is the exact sort of self-fulfilling prophecy I'd like to avoid.
As I said before, to regard the
No amount of survivor nerfs will EVER end the use of this argument.I do not care. It's a gradient. Some survivors will always want more. Some killers will always want more. That doesn't make an argument invalid, and it doesn't make the problem not a problem. This fatalism isn't going to lead to anything productive by just dismissing arguments out of hand.By means of beating the dead horse:
"Burning fossil fuels creates pollution!"
Well we'll stop that."Burning forests creates pollution."
Nope, we already stopped fossil fuels 'cause you said that was doing it."Spraying aerosol's creates pollution."
Well you're never going to be happy so I'm tired of hearing this 'causes pollution' argument.
The argument being tiresome doesn't mean the argument does not contain validity.
(And for anyone reading, that example was a hyperbolic example that is a strawman. Not meant to replace or invalidate Firellius' argument in any way. Please do not treat it as such.)
Old Dead Hard is why I tacked on "legitimate" in brackets. Outside of the most broken single perk in the game's existence, it's been the best for a decade.
Basically no reason to run it over other exhaustion options now. If vigil hadn't also been nerfed into the ground it would still be usable but without vigil combo which was extremly strong its just one of the worst exhaustion choices other than head on/smash hit basically
Well nine years as Exhaustion was added to it in 1.5.0 it was not in the game from release, but not nitpicking just interesting additional information.
I noticed that killers forcing 3 gen at the start got a heavy buff with this, they do create a dead zone there only patrolling the 3 gen from the start, previously you could reach a safe zone with SB, but now if you try to break the 3 gens, you will get hit as SB cant help you anymore.
well yeah you have to make the bait convincing. humans are creatures who take the path of least resistance. it's why If you want to be chased you don't act desperate by tbagging and clicking incessantly for example. but I'm sure you knew that already.
if there are 3x SBs and 1 person with no exhaustion its kind of a no brainer.
It's quote formatting. On PC, if you use the [>] symbol and then add a space, it'll create a quote block.
And my problem with that argumentation is that there is no limit to this. You can demand an endless cascade of survivor nerfs on the basis of 'chase too hard, so I started tunnelling'.
Also, I find it disingenuous to bring this 'I don't mind' energy when you firstly, specifically, said this:
Because that is a pretty solid value judgement for someone who claims to not mind or care. If this was not the solution you wanted, why defend it?
Again, though, this argument does go all the way down the ladder to every single thing a survivor can do or bring. Thus this 'good thing' does not solve the problem at hand at all.
This is either short-sighted or dishonest, though. Firstly, even if you do lock in that survivors must always bring one chase perk, what do you do if someone brings two?
So then you lock it to no more than one, but then the rest of the build is on the chopping block, because any disparity there can also 'galvanize killers to tunnel'.
So if you want to argue that
making 'solution' suggestions that bind survivors' agency is not the best way to go.
Ultimately, the true problem is that tunnelling is a viable option to begin with, and constantly layering nerfs and restrictions on the survivor side is just kicking the can down the road at the expense of those most frustrated by the problem to begin with.
I'm not saying it's the only fix, far from it.
I'm saying it's the fix that gets most consistently suggested.
The argument is moot, though, because it will never produce a solution. That's the issue. The argument is pointless.
OG Sprint Burst sure did have a good run 🤣