Design Preview | The Skull Merchant

DbD_DesignPreview-SM_Banner_1920x1080.png

[Reposting the Design Preview here to help centralize feedback and discussion]

Click here for Português Brasileiro, 简体中文, Français, 日本語, and Español.

Today, we want to dig into a topic that we know many of you have been yearning to know more about: our vision for the future of The Skull Merchant! 

REEVALUATING THE SKULL MERCHANT

We know that Skull Merchant is a divisive Killer who, regardless of her performance in a Trial, carries a lot of history and strong feelings among players. 

Many players feel she’s not fun to play against and her kit is exceedingly complex. This scares away potential Killers from trying her and makes it difficult for Survivors to consider counterplay without dedicated research. 

As we look to reworking Skull Merchant, our aim is to: 

  1. Strike a balance between being fun to play as and against 
  2. Preserve the intel focus of her kit, while making it intuitive to understand for both sides 
  3. Move away from a passive power with limited player interactions and embrace a more active playstyle, while ensuring her power is compensated in interesting ways 

Those last two points may be particularly difficult to hear for long-time Skull Merchant mains, but we feel it’s important to be clear about our intentions here. While the future we envision for Skull Merchant is quite different from her previous iterations, we feel this rework brings some exciting new tools of torment to the table! 

DRONES 2.0

Skull Merchant can deploy a Stealth Drone (she carries a total of 5), which scans its immediate vicinity and provides intel back to her. After a short activation period, the Drone gives off subtle audio and visual indications of the area being scanned, revealing any Survivors on the Radar who are caught by its two rotating detection zones. 

 Importantly, we’ve slowed their rotation speed slightly and toned down the visual intensity of these zones, removing the large scan lines to replace them with something more subtle. Namely, you'll see the direction of each detection zone as they rotate, but the detection zone itself is invisible. This gives Survivors an impression of the space that’s being actively scanned but requires them to proceed cautiously. 

image-aaf071f6c3346-22ec.png

While we know they had their supporters, the original scan lines were visually loud and often clashed with the rest of the game’s look and feel. The intent here is to strike a balance between giving Survivors just enough info to assess the threat (a subtle, rotating field of detection) without that threat overwhelming the space and feeling incongruous to Dead by Daylight’s visual identity. 

DRONE CONTROL

Once a Stealth Drone has been active for a short period, Skull Merchant can choose to take control of Drones from a distance. During this time, she becomes Undetectable, as her controlled Drone becomes the primary threat. These Stealth Drones move slightly faster than her base movement speed and consume a new resource – Power, unique to each Drone – while being controlled. 

Power is consumed slowly as the controlled Drone idles and slightly more is consumed while moving. Skull Merchant is also able to use a burst of this Power to activate Drone Propulsion. This charged power sends the Drone flying forward at high speed, relative to how long it was charged. 

SM-KD_ArticleAsset.gif

Put simply: Stealth Drone go brr 

Hitting a Survivor with Drone Propulsion causes them to lose a health state. If you hit a Survivor or collide with an object during this action, the Drone will be destroyed and return control to Skull Merchant. 

With these new Stealth Drones, we want to give players something that feels familiar (using drones to gather intel) but also opens the door for unique skill expression opportunities (re-positioning Drones and Propulsion skill shots). Using technology to hunt her prey is core to Skull Merchant’s identity and so it’s important that we stay true to that! 

We have opted to remove many of the background effects – Hindered, Haste, Lock On, Claw Trap – that were previously tied to these Drones, though. Rather than doing a little bit of everything with her Drones under layers of complexity, we want their use cases to be clear to Killers and Survivors alike, on the fly. Basically, if they’re static, they’re likely scanning for Survivors. If they’re moving, they’re a collision hazard. 

DRONE HACKING

Like Drones themselves, Drone Hacking returns with a greater degree of risk and reward. Like before, Drones can be disabled by Survivors by inputting a series of button presses while close. If a Drone is disabled, Skull Merchant’s aura is revealed to that Survivor, providing useful intel. If the Hack is failed, they are revealed by Killer Instinct and are prevented from attempting another hack for a short period. 

The intention here is to introduce a greater degree of tension to hacking, while offering a clear way for Survivors to interact with Skull Merchant’s kit in a meaningful way. The intel reward is greater than before, but the risk of being revealed is more impactful. With intel at the center of this tension on both sides, we hope it makes this interaction easily digestible by players. 

RED LIGHT, GREEN LIGHT

In addition to her Drones, Skull Merchant has another power that ties into her Radar. While the name is currently TBD, let’s refer to it as a Global Detection Power. Once this power is charged and activated, a global warning plays for all Survivors. For a short period afterwards, any Survivor who actively sprints is revealed on her Radar. Of course, crouching, standing still, and hiding in lockers all prevent detection. Added to the intel provided by Stealth Drones around the map, this should help ensure Killers are easily able to keep tabs on Survivors’ movements. 

In line with our rationale above, we want Survivors to have a clear understanding of what’s happening when they face Skull Merchant. Where the overlapping timers and status effects of Skull Merchant’s previous kit often obscured what the expected result of an encounter might be, structuring this power around a well-known game – red light, green light – provides a clear and readable threat, a clear benefit for the Killer, and a clear path for Survivors to try and overcome it. 

TENTATIVE RELEASE

We are currently evaluating a timeline for Skull Merchant’s rework but do envision it being quite far out as our primary focus is on driving quality-of-life updates. Once we have a timeline to share, we will be sure to keep you informed via future Design Preview updates. 

Phew – that was a lot! How do you feel about this rework? We want to hear from you! Jump into our survey and share your thoughts right here:  https://forums.bhvr.com/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FDPSM_DF_MAR%3Fvalue%3D%255Bvalue_value%255D

See you in The Fog!

The Dead by Daylight Team

Comments

  • And about Trickster Reowrk? any news?

  • @Ricardo170373 said:

    And about Trickster Reowrk? any news?

    We'll return with more information about the Trickster when the time is right, but don't have anything to share at this time.

  • There any plans to compensate people who bought SM before you gutted her entire kit for no reason?

  • @ThatRyanB said:

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0PSLDLA8TOJV/dbd-designpreview-sm-banner-1920x1080.png

    [Reposting the Design Preview here to help centralize feedback and discussion]

    Click here for Português Brasileiro, 简体中文, Français, 日本語, and Español.

    Today, we want to dig into a topic that we know many of you have been yearning to know more about: our vision for the future of The Skull Merchant! 

    REEVALUATING THE SKULL MERCHANT

    We know that Skull Merchant is a divisive Killer who, regardless of her performance in a Trial, carries a lot of history and strong feelings among players. 

    Many players feel she’s not fun to play against and her kit is exceedingly complex. This scares away potential Killers from trying her and makes it difficult for Survivors to consider counterplay without dedicated research. 

    As we look to reworking Skull Merchant, our aim is to: 

    1. Strike a balance between being fun to play as and against 
    2. Preserve the intel focus of her kit, while making it intuitive to understand for both sides 
    3. Move away from a passive power with limited player interactions and embrace a more active playstyle, while ensuring her power is compensated in interesting ways 

    Those last two points may be particularly difficult to hear for long-time Skull Merchant mains, but we feel it’s important to be clear about our intentions here. While the future we envision for Skull Merchant is quite different from her previous iterations, we feel this rework brings some exciting new tools of torment to the table! 

    DRONES 2.0

    Skull Merchant can deploy a Stealth Drone (she carries a total of 5), which scans its immediate vicinity and provides intel back to her. After a short activation period, the Drone gives off subtle audio and visual indications of the area being scanned, revealing any Survivors on the Radar who are caught by its two rotating detection zones. 

     Importantly, we’ve slowed their rotation speed slightly and toned down the visual intensity of these zones, removing the large scan lines to replace them with something more subtle. Namely, you'll see the direction of each detection zone as they rotate, but the detection zone itself is invisible. This gives Survivors an impression of the space that’s being actively scanned but requires them to proceed cautiously. 

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C6VWTQBQ1BTU/image-aaf071f6c3346-22ec.png

    While we know they had their supporters, the original scan lines were visually loud and often clashed with the rest of the game’s look and feel. The intent here is to strike a balance between giving Survivors just enough info to assess the threat (a subtle, rotating field of detection) without that threat overwhelming the space and feeling incongruous to Dead by Daylight’s visual identity. 

    DRONE CONTROL

    Once a Stealth Drone has been active for a short period, Skull Merchant can choose to take control of Drones from a distance. During this time, she becomes Undetectable, as her controlled Drone becomes the primary threat. These Stealth Drones move slightly faster than her base movement speed and consume a new resource – Power, unique to each Drone – while being controlled. 

    Power is consumed slowly as the controlled Drone idles and slightly more is consumed while moving. Skull Merchant is also able to use a burst of this Power to activate Drone Propulsion. This charged power sends the Drone flying forward at high speed, relative to how long it was charged. 

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IMXNYNDDTZL2/sm-kd-articleasset.gif

    Put simply: Stealth Drone go brr 

    Hitting a Survivor with Drone Propulsion causes them to lose a health state. If you hit a Survivor or collide with an object during this action, the Drone will be destroyed and return control to Skull Merchant. 

    With these new Stealth Drones, we want to give players something that feels familiar (using drones to gather intel) but also opens the door for unique skill expression opportunities (re-positioning Drones and Propulsion skill shots). Using technology to hunt her prey is core to Skull Merchant’s identity and so it’s important that we stay true to that! 

    We have opted to remove many of the background effects – Hindered, Haste, Lock On, Claw Trap – that were previously tied to these Drones, though. Rather than doing a little bit of everything with her Drones under layers of complexity, we want their use cases to be clear to Killers and Survivors alike, on the fly. Basically, if they’re static, they’re likely scanning for Survivors. If they’re moving, they’re a collision hazard. 

    DRONE HACKING

    Like Drones themselves, Drone Hacking returns with a greater degree of risk and reward. Like before, Drones can be disabled by Survivors by inputting a series of button presses while close. If a Drone is disabled, Skull Merchant’s aura is revealed to that Survivor, providing useful intel. If the Hack is failed, they are revealed by Killer Instinct and are prevented from attempting another hack for a short period. 

    The intention here is to introduce a greater degree of tension to hacking, while offering a clear way for Survivors to interact with Skull Merchant’s kit in a meaningful way. The intel reward is greater than before, but the risk of being revealed is more impactful. With intel at the center of this tension on both sides, we hope it makes this interaction easily digestible by players. 

    RED LIGHT, GREEN LIGHT

    In addition to her Drones, Skull Merchant has another power that ties into her Radar. While the name is currently TBD, let’s refer to it as a Global Detection Power. Once this power is charged and activated, a global warning plays for all Survivors. For a short period afterwards, any Survivor who actively sprints is revealed on her Radar. Of course, crouching, standing still, and hiding in lockers all prevent detection. Added to the intel provided by Stealth Drones around the map, this should help ensure Killers are easily able to keep tabs on Survivors’ movements. 

    In line with our rationale above, we want Survivors to have a clear understanding of what’s happening when they face Skull Merchant. Where the overlapping timers and status effects of Skull Merchant’s previous kit often obscured what the expected result of an encounter might be, structuring this power around a well-known game – red light, green light – provides a clear and readable threat, a clear benefit for the Killer, and a clear path for Survivors to try and overcome it. 

    TENTATIVE RELEASE

    We are currently evaluating a timeline for Skull Merchant’s rework but do envision it being quite far out as our primary focus is on driving quality-of-life updates. Once we have a timeline to share, we will be sure to keep you informed via future Design Preview updates. 

    Phew – that was a lot! How do you feel about this rework? We want to hear from you! Jump into our survey and share your thoughts right here: 

    https://forums.bhvr.com/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FDPSM_DF_MAR%3Fvalue%3D%255Bvalue_value%255D

    See you in The Fog!

    The Dead by Daylight Team

    I'm not even a skull merchant main but judging from what I've seen this is a complete change in pace for what people who originally play skull merchant are used making the character they once love nothing like before and I do not think these changes would make people very happy but if it still drops I hope I am wrong and the player base ends up happy with these changes

    Prove me wrong behavior
    and keep up the good work

  • @ThatRyanB said:

    Two weeks ago, we shared a Design Preview focused on a proposed rework for Skull Merchant. We saw so much amazingly in-depth discussion come out of this and your participation in the survey helped us dig deeper into how you felt about the specifics of the preview!

    Looking at these survey results, 51% of respondents were satisfied with the changes and 24% had a more neutral outlook. That’s a great starting point! It shows we’re on the right track, but that there’s room for adjustments. First, let’s look at some of the interesting points we saw come up:

    • There was a lot of love for her drones! The two most positively received mechanics were the ability to control drones and the Drone Propulsion action.
    • While the concept of drone hacking was well-liked, we also heard your concerns that the value of this action felt like it could skew towards Survivors, specifically because it would reveal the Killer.
    • The global detection power sparked a lot of interest, but its practical value wasn’t totally clear. We’re taking these points into account!

    So, what’s next? Drawing on your feedback, the team is taking this rework back into the workshop to make some adjustments. In a couple weeks, we’ll be back with an updated preview and look forward to hearing your thoughts! Specifically, a few of the key topics we’re investigating are:

    • Focusing on Skull Merchant’s identity as a crafty Killer who meticulously tracks her prey with high-tech tools.
    • Balancing her map pressure so she has (and can benefit from) wide awareness via her drones, without the playstyle feeling like it supports camping, slugging, or 3-gening.

    See you in The Fog!

    The Dead by Daylight Team

    I dont wanna sound like a sourpuss all the time, but 51% does not sound like a great starting point. I honestly wish you guys would try to spitball some other ideas for her at least two more times. Just to see how other things land before you commit to a "51% liked controllable drones so that's what we are gonna do"

    I mean sure, concerns were raised, but I am kinda worried that you will just try to fix the concerns instead of going into what other aspects resonated with users who play her. For instance, one of my friends play her and she is not the active control kind of person, more like Trapper or Hag kind of player. This direction seem to take SM way out of the Trap Killer category.

    Just seems to me than this new direction which you seem to describe very much confidence in right now, seems more like a the decision is made rather than a well lets see what ideas stick. And you only tried this one idea so far, that being remote control drones.

    I understand you guys probably have a deadline and want to get to work on this, but please try another idea for the design preview like one more time (or two) and see if you get a better result than 51%. Pretty please.

  • What if the goal ought to be 70% satisfied and less than 10% dissatisfied?

    ALSO, just saying, I saw quite a few people were unsatisfied with the Survey saying it left very little room to explain why.

  • @ThatRyanB said:

    Two weeks ago, we shared a Design Preview focused on a proposed rework for Skull Merchant. We saw so much amazingly in-depth discussion come out of this and your participation in the survey helped us dig deeper into how you felt about the specifics of the preview!

    Looking at these survey results, 51% of respondents were satisfied with the changes and 24% had a more neutral outlook. That’s a great starting point! It shows we’re on the right track, but that there’s room for adjustments. First, let’s look at some of the interesting points we saw come up:

    • There was a lot of love for her drones! The two most positively received mechanics were the ability to control drones and the Drone Propulsion action.
    • While the concept of drone hacking was well-liked, we also heard your concerns that the value of this action felt like it could skew towards Survivors, specifically because it would reveal the Killer.
    • The global detection power sparked a lot of interest, but its practical value wasn’t totally clear. We’re taking these points into account!

    So, what’s next? Drawing on your feedback, the team is taking this rework back into the workshop to make some adjustments. In a couple weeks, we’ll be back with an updated preview and look forward to hearing your thoughts! Specifically, a few of the key topics we’re investigating are:

    • Focusing on Skull Merchant’s identity as a crafty Killer who meticulously tracks her prey with high-tech tools.
    • Balancing her map pressure so she has (and can benefit from) wide awareness via her drones, without the playstyle feeling like it supports camping, slugging, or 3-gening.

    See you in The Fog!

    The Dead by Daylight Team

    Not gonna lie, this is a heartbreaking read.

    Were there any considerations given to the assassination of her established identity, the removal of all of the skill expression and unique technical gameplay of her current version? The sentiment among Merchant's players right now is morose; we're not getting a rework we're excited for, we're counting down the days before the our favourite Killer is taken out back and shot and it feels like our pleas for a stay of execution are going unheard

  • @ThatRyanB said:

    Two weeks ago, we shared a Design Preview focused on a proposed rework for Skull Merchant. We saw so much amazingly in-depth discussion come out of this and your participation in the survey helped us dig deeper into how you felt about the specifics of the preview!

    Looking at these survey results, 51% of respondents were satisfied with the changes and 24% had a more neutral outlook. That’s a great starting point! It shows we’re on the right track, but that there’s room for adjustments. First, let’s look at some of the interesting points we saw come up:

    • There was a lot of love for her drones! The two most positively received mechanics were the ability to control drones and the Drone Propulsion action.
    • While the concept of drone hacking was well-liked, we also heard your concerns that the value of this action felt like it could skew towards Survivors, specifically because it would reveal the Killer.
    • The global detection power sparked a lot of interest, but its practical value wasn’t totally clear. We’re taking these points into account!

    So, what’s next? Drawing on your feedback, the team is taking this rework back into the workshop to make some adjustments. In a couple weeks, we’ll be back with an updated preview and look forward to hearing your thoughts! Specifically, a few of the key topics we’re investigating are:

    • Focusing on Skull Merchant’s identity as a crafty Killer who meticulously tracks her prey with high-tech tools.
    • Balancing her map pressure so she has (and can benefit from) wide awareness via her drones, without the playstyle feeling like it supports camping, slugging, or 3-gening.

    See you in The Fog!

    The Dead by Daylight Team

    Whatever you do, please remember that a lot of people who currently enjoy playing her enjoy her because she is a trap-focused killer.

    We have plenty of dash and skillshot based killers already. Trap-enjoyers only have Trapper and Hag to work with.

    Also, please take PixelBush's exhaustive video critiquing the changes into account.

  • @ThatRyanB said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909986#Comment_3909986

    We'll return with more information about the Trickster when the time is right, but don't have anything to share at this time.

    Honestly, take all the time you need. I feel like yall are stuck on the 110/115 debate and you're trying to take both sides into consideration. One side will have to be disappointed.

    I don't envy the position you're in. Trickster players are few, so they are passionate about him. That's why I feel people are being vocal about what they'd like to see with him.

  • @ThatRyanB said:

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0PSLDLA8TOJV/dbd-designpreview-sm-banner-1920x1080.png

    [Reposting the Design Preview here to help centralize feedback and discussion]

    Click here for Português Brasileiro, 简体中文, Français, 日本語, and Español.

    Today, we want to dig into a topic that we know many of you have been yearning to know more about: our vision for the future of The Skull Merchant! 

    REEVALUATING THE SKULL MERCHANT

    We know that Skull Merchant is a divisive Killer who, regardless of her performance in a Trial, carries a lot of history and strong feelings among players. 

    Many players feel she’s not fun to play against and her kit is exceedingly complex. This scares away potential Killers from trying her and makes it difficult for Survivors to consider counterplay without dedicated research. 

    As we look to reworking Skull Merchant, our aim is to: 

    1. Strike a balance between being fun to play as and against 
    2. Preserve the intel focus of her kit, while making it intuitive to understand for both sides 
    3. Move away from a passive power with limited player interactions and embrace a more active playstyle, while ensuring her power is compensated in interesting ways 

    Those last two points may be particularly difficult to hear for long-time Skull Merchant mains, but we feel it’s important to be clear about our intentions here. While the future we envision for Skull Merchant is quite different from her previous iterations, we feel this rework brings some exciting new tools of torment to the table! 

    DRONES 2.0

    Skull Merchant can deploy a Stealth Drone (she carries a total of 5), which scans its immediate vicinity and provides intel back to her. After a short activation period, the Drone gives off subtle audio and visual indications of the area being scanned, revealing any Survivors on the Radar who are caught by its two rotating detection zones. 

     Importantly, we’ve slowed their rotation speed slightly and toned down the visual intensity of these zones, removing the large scan lines to replace them with something more subtle. Namely, you'll see the direction of each detection zone as they rotate, but the detection zone itself is invisible. This gives Survivors an impression of the space that’s being actively scanned but requires them to proceed cautiously. 

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/C6VWTQBQ1BTU/image-aaf071f6c3346-22ec.png

    While we know they had their supporters, the original scan lines were visually loud and often clashed with the rest of the game’s look and feel. The intent here is to strike a balance between giving Survivors just enough info to assess the threat (a subtle, rotating field of detection) without that threat overwhelming the space and feeling incongruous to Dead by Daylight’s visual identity. 

    DRONE CONTROL

    Once a Stealth Drone has been active for a short period, Skull Merchant can choose to take control of Drones from a distance. During this time, she becomes Undetectable, as her controlled Drone becomes the primary threat. These Stealth Drones move slightly faster than her base movement speed and consume a new resource – Power, unique to each Drone – while being controlled. 

    Power is consumed slowly as the controlled Drone idles and slightly more is consumed while moving. Skull Merchant is also able to use a burst of this Power to activate Drone Propulsion. This charged power sends the Drone flying forward at high speed, relative to how long it was charged. 

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IMXNYNDDTZL2/sm-kd-articleasset.gif

    Put simply: Stealth Drone go brr 

    Hitting a Survivor with Drone Propulsion causes them to lose a health state. If you hit a Survivor or collide with an object during this action, the Drone will be destroyed and return control to Skull Merchant. 

    With these new Stealth Drones, we want to give players something that feels familiar (using drones to gather intel) but also opens the door for unique skill expression opportunities (re-positioning Drones and Propulsion skill shots). Using technology to hunt her prey is core to Skull Merchant’s identity and so it’s important that we stay true to that! 

    We have opted to remove many of the background effects – Hindered, Haste, Lock On, Claw Trap – that were previously tied to these Drones, though. Rather than doing a little bit of everything with her Drones under layers of complexity, we want their use cases to be clear to Killers and Survivors alike, on the fly. Basically, if they’re static, they’re likely scanning for Survivors. If they’re moving, they’re a collision hazard. 

    DRONE HACKING

    Like Drones themselves, Drone Hacking returns with a greater degree of risk and reward. Like before, Drones can be disabled by Survivors by inputting a series of button presses while close. If a Drone is disabled, Skull Merchant’s aura is revealed to that Survivor, providing useful intel. If the Hack is failed, they are revealed by Killer Instinct and are prevented from attempting another hack for a short period. 

    The intention here is to introduce a greater degree of tension to hacking, while offering a clear way for Survivors to interact with Skull Merchant’s kit in a meaningful way. The intel reward is greater than before, but the risk of being revealed is more impactful. With intel at the center of this tension on both sides, we hope it makes this interaction easily digestible by players. 

    RED LIGHT, GREEN LIGHT

    In addition to her Drones, Skull Merchant has another power that ties into her Radar. While the name is currently TBD, let’s refer to it as a Global Detection Power. Once this power is charged and activated, a global warning plays for all Survivors. For a short period afterwards, any Survivor who actively sprints is revealed on her Radar. Of course, crouching, standing still, and hiding in lockers all prevent detection. Added to the intel provided by Stealth Drones around the map, this should help ensure Killers are easily able to keep tabs on Survivors’ movements. 

    In line with our rationale above, we want Survivors to have a clear understanding of what’s happening when they face Skull Merchant. Where the overlapping timers and status effects of Skull Merchant’s previous kit often obscured what the expected result of an encounter might be, structuring this power around a well-known game – red light, green light – provides a clear and readable threat, a clear benefit for the Killer, and a clear path for Survivors to try and overcome it. 

    TENTATIVE RELEASE

    We are currently evaluating a timeline for Skull Merchant’s rework but do envision it being quite far out as our primary focus is on driving quality-of-life updates. Once we have a timeline to share, we will be sure to keep you informed via future Design Preview updates. 

    Phew – that was a lot! How do you feel about this rework? We want to hear from you! Jump into our survey and share your thoughts right here: 

    https://forums.bhvr.com/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.surveymonkey.com%2Fr%2FDPSM_DF_MAR%3Fvalue%3D%255Bvalue_value%255D

    See you in The Fog!

    The Dead by Daylight Team

    So will you be giving out refunds for the character? Since she's no longer remotely the same character I purchased? Like you took the thing I spent money on and made it something completely different so I'd like my money back.

  • @100PercentBPMain said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909988#Comment_3909988

    Honestly, take all the time you need. I feel like yall are stuck on the 110/115 debate and you're trying to take both sides into consideration. One side will have to be disappointed.

    I don't envy the position you're in. Trickster players are few, so they are passionate about him. That's why I feel people are being vocal about what they'd like to see with him.

    I don't feel like they're in that position at all.

    I haven't really seen anybody super enthusiastic about the new drone design. I feel like a lot of people who thought it was a good idea are people like me, who don't play the character but thought that the concept was kind of neat.

    I would not play her even if they went with that idea, I am happy with my current killer mains and her aesthetic design doesn't appeal to me.

    We don't matter as much as the people who currently main her, and I have not seen any of them happy about it.

    I get that they can't keep her current design, because nobody really enjoys playing against it. But that doesn't mean they need to gut her identity as a trap killer.

    Edit: I just realized you're talking about Trickster, which… I mean, literally everything I said up there applies to him, as well. So I'm not going to delete this post.

    Listen to people who main the character first. Please. Other people do not matter as much.

  • @PixelBush said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909956#Comment_3909956

    Not gonna lie, this is a heartbreaking read.

    Were there any considerations given to the assassination of her established identity, the removal of all of the skill expression and unique technical gameplay of her current version? The sentiment among Merchant's players right now is morose; we're not getting a rework we're excited for, we're counting down the days before the our favourite Killer is taken out back and shot and it feels like our pleas for a stay of execution are going unheard

    According to all the SM players I've seen, she already was already dead after her changes.

    I hate to break it to you, but you aren't going to get SM 2.0 back. It makes zero sense, especially from a publicity standpoint, for BHVR to bring back a much-maligned Killer.

  • If a quarter of our players aren’t with us, we really can’t just brush that off. It’s tempting to say 'forget the vocal minority,' but 25% unhappy (or worse, angry) players is a real risk to the overall health of the community. You should seriously consider exploring alternative previews with the goal of bringing that number down below 15%. Even a small shift toward satisfaction could make a huge difference in the long-term reception and player trust.

    Hey Ryan, how much does it cost BHVR to get the designers together and squeeze their brains into an alternative preview?
    Not trying to waste you Guys' money now.

  • @ThatRyanB said:

    Two weeks ago, we shared a Design Preview focused on a proposed rework for Skull Merchant. We saw so much amazingly in-depth discussion come out of this and your participation in the survey helped us dig deeper into how you felt about the specifics of the preview!

    Looking at these survey results, 51% of respondents were satisfied with the changes and 24% had a more neutral outlook. That’s a great starting point! It shows we’re on the right track, but that there’s room for adjustments. First, let’s look at some of the interesting points we saw come up:

    • There was a lot of love for her drones! The two most positively received mechanics were the ability to control drones and the Drone Propulsion action.
    • While the concept of drone hacking was well-liked, we also heard your concerns that the value of this action felt like it could skew towards Survivors, specifically because it would reveal the Killer.
    • The global detection power sparked a lot of interest, but its practical value wasn’t totally clear. We’re taking these points into account!

    So, what’s next? Drawing on your feedback, the team is taking this rework back into the workshop to make some adjustments. In a couple weeks, we’ll be back with an updated preview and look forward to hearing your thoughts! Specifically, a few of the key topics we’re investigating are:

    • Focusing on Skull Merchant’s identity as a crafty Killer who meticulously tracks her prey with high-tech tools.
    • Balancing her map pressure so she has (and can benefit from) wide awareness via her drones, without the playstyle feeling like it supports camping, slugging, or 3-gening.

    See you in The Fog!

    The Dead by Daylight Team

    Hate to say this but this concept as it is will just bring back chess merchant if this is brought to ptb, being able to control drones with the ability to damage survivor means you can just 3 gen

    Not to mention the survey really didn't help as there was no way in communicating each of the aspects of her design as someone who very much likes playing her (especially since she's gonna be kept as a dash ability which I don't like)

    Whatever her next preview they have going, it's most likely that I'm not gonna like what it's going to be, but who knows

  • @ThatRyanB said:

    Two weeks ago, we shared a Design Preview focused on a proposed rework for Skull Merchant. We saw so much amazingly in-depth discussion come out of this and your participation in the survey helped us dig deeper into how you felt about the specifics of the preview!

    Looking at these survey results, 51% of respondents were satisfied with the changes and 24% had a more neutral outlook. That’s a great starting point! It shows we’re on the right track, but that there’s room for adjustments. First, let’s look at some of the interesting points we saw come up:

    • There was a lot of love for her drones! The two most positively received mechanics were the ability to control drones and the Drone Propulsion action.
    • While the concept of drone hacking was well-liked, we also heard your concerns that the value of this action felt like it could skew towards Survivors, specifically because it would reveal the Killer.
    • The global detection power sparked a lot of interest, but its practical value wasn’t totally clear. We’re taking these points into account!

    So, what’s next? Drawing on your feedback, the team is taking this rework back into the workshop to make some adjustments. In a couple weeks, we’ll be back with an updated preview and look forward to hearing your thoughts! Specifically, a few of the key topics we’re investigating are:

    • Focusing on Skull Merchant’s identity as a crafty Killer who meticulously tracks her prey with high-tech tools.
    • Balancing her map pressure so she has (and can benefit from) wide awareness via her drones, without the playstyle feeling like it supports camping, slugging, or 3-gening.

    See you in The Fog!

    The Dead by Daylight Team

    A bit sad to see, I enjoyed the scanlines honestly. Even if I didn't "properly" use the drone, it was fun using them like 'land mines' that survivors would bump into. A bit scared for Trickster now, but I hope w/e you guys cook is worth it… Good luck.

    o7

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910057#Comment_3910057

    According to all the SM players I've seen, she already was already dead after her changes.

    I hate to break it to you, but you aren't going to get SM 2.0 back. It makes zero sense, especially from a publicity standpoint, for BHVR to bring back a much-maligned Killer.

    This is very condescending of you to say that skull merchant 2.0 is never coming back

    Skull merchant should at least keep her 2.0 aspect not delete them entirely, why can't you understand that

    Why should only the majority be the only people who decides skull merchants fate, the people who enjoy playing her should get a say in all this too

  • The only redeemable part are the last 2 points. i fear it will be like that should this go live

    idk about the rest, it takes away her drone-scan-doing-something-dangerous-gimmick she has and i find that cool and unique with her

    bet. its liked because people hate her current claw-trap mechanic, sure its new but uuuuuh

    My suggestion? inbed her claw-trap mechanic with this new rework thing (and not being able to down survivors) and we got a deal

    I pray her global tracking mechanic also works on stationary targets

  • @jasonq500 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910124#Comment_3910124

    This is very condescending of you to say that skull merchant 2.0 is never coming back

    Skull merchant should at least keep her 2.0 aspect not delete them entirely, why can't you understand that

    Why should only the majority be the only people who decides skull merchants fate, the people who enjoy playing her should get a say in all this too

    When has BHVR ever brought a previous version of a Killer back?

    It makes little sense for BHVR to bring back a Killer that was so, nearly, universally reviled that they dumpstered her rather than try to rework her previous iteration.

    Makes more sense to try to find a new way to make her work. If you want her to focus on traps, sure, that's good feedback and I'm sure they are considering that aspect. Don't envy them, because Trap Killers are usually non-interactive and are tricky to balance fun with strength. Regardless, that is valuable feedback even if I disagree with it.

    Insisting that she be reverted is not good feedback. They are not going to do that.

  • @Adriana_ghoul said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910124#Comment_3910124

    2.0? You mean the scan line version? The reason she was nerfed was purely because of her kill rate and BHVRs inability to hire skilled data scientists who can interpret simple statistics. She was no more complained about than other "annoying" killers at the time.

    Look, I mean, let's not be disingenuous.

    I think even her staunchest defenders would admit that she has a pretty bad reputation, and the community complained about her constantly.

    That's not really the thing up for debate here and it's confusing that you're even trying to make it a point.

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910155#Comment_3910155

    When has BHVR ever brought a previous version of a Killer back?

    It makes little sense for BHVR to bring back a Killer that was so, nearly, universally reviled that they dumpstered her rather than try to rework her previous iteration.

    Makes more sense to try to find a new way to make her work. If you want her to focus on traps, sure, that's good feedback and I'm sure they are considering that aspect. Don't envy them, because Trap Killers are usually non-interactive and are tricky to balance fun with strength. Regardless, that is valuable feedback even if I disagree with it.

    Insisting that she be reverted is not good feedback. They are not going to do that.

    "When has BHVR ever brought a previous version of a Killer back?"

    They've done it before. Sadako and Billy have both had problematic reworks wound back because their mains yelled about it. Sadako 3.0 is basically a rebuild of her original version with a lot of the problems ironed out, and Billy mains were overjoyed with Billy going back to a non-Overheat state.

    Why do Sadako and Billy mains get to have what they want but not us?

  • @PixelBush said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910198#Comment_3910198

    "When has BHVR ever brought a previous version of a Killer back?"

    They've done it before. Sadako and Billy have both had problematic reworks wound back because their mains yelled about it. Sadako 3.0 is basically a rebuild of her original version with a lot of the problems ironed out, and Billy mains were overjoyed with Billy going back to a non-Overheat state.

    Why do Sadako and Billy mains get to have what they want but not us?

    Billy is close but not the same. He also had to wait multiple years for the landscape of DBD to shift drastically.

    Not sure when Sadako got her latest (?) rework. Don't play much anymore, probably haven't seen it.

    Why do they get what they want? Well, Billy wasn't a problematic Killer before they publicly executed him. He had overtuned addons, but pretty much every Killer did at that point in time. His KR was fine and aside from Insta-Saw, people liked him. There wasn't a justification.

    Sadako had one particular playstyle that was an issue. She also felt fairly weak outside of it. So BHVR, naturally, completely botched the rework.

    SM, on the other hand, ushered in the single most hated meta in the entire history of DBD. When you think about Eruption Overbrine, you think SM. When you think of a Killer defending a 3-gen like it's their first-born child, you think SM. Even outside of that, she was a horrible Killer to face because her Drones forced more of the same, "I place power, leave loop or die" that we had going for years at that point. SM 1.0 wasn't even strong outside of gens, imo.

    Even after her rework, she was STILL hated because they accentuated that playstyle even more AND turbo-bloated her kit. She managed to achieve over a 70% KR and was reviled at all levels of play.

    TLDR; SM has a FAR worse rep than Billy or Sadako ever did. Billy was well-liked, Sadako had her haters, and the community at large wanted SM gone. Returning Sadako or Billy to their former selves, with fixes, was generally accepted since they had specific issues. Returning SM to her previous state will not be accepted due to her reputation being in tatters, her unengaging gameplay loop and the resulting public backlash.

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910155#Comment_3910155

    When has BHVR ever brought a previous version of a Killer back?

    It makes little sense for BHVR to bring back a Killer that was so, nearly, universally reviled that they dumpstered her rather than try to rework her previous iteration.

    Makes more sense to try to find a new way to make her work. If you want her to focus on traps, sure, that's good feedback and I'm sure they are considering that aspect. Don't envy them, because Trap Killers are usually non-interactive and are tricky to balance fun with strength. Regardless, that is valuable feedback even if I disagree with it.

    Insisting that she be reverted is not good feedback. They are not going to do that.

    I'm not saying that they should be reverted and be kept as is, I'm saying keep aspect that I and others like about skull merchant in her rework and not go with this current preview that they have in mind and try a different approach

    which brings in to your question about which killer was brought back to the previous version was sadako

    Bhvr brought back Sadako's first design when she was reworked last year, they brought back what people liked about her while incorporating new aspects of her condemn mechanic

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910202#Comment_3910202

    Billy is close but not the same. He also had to wait multiple years for the landscape of DBD to shift drastically.

    Not sure when Sadako got her latest (?) rework. Don't play much anymore, probably haven't seen it.

    Why do they get what they want? Well, Billy wasn't a problematic Killer before they publicly executed him. He had overtuned addons, but pretty much every Killer did at that point in time. His KR was fine and aside from Insta-Saw, people liked him. There wasn't a justification.

    Sadako had one particular playstyle that was an issue. She also felt fairly weak outside of it. So BHVR, naturally, completely botched the rework.

    SM, on the other hand, ushered in the single most hated meta in the entire history of DBD. When you think about Eruption Overbrine, you think SM. When you think of a Killer defending a 3-gen like it's their first-born child, you think SM. Even outside of that, she was a horrible Killer to face because her Drones forced more of the same, "I place power, leave loop or die" that we had going for years at that point. SM 1.0 wasn't even strong outside of gens, imo.

    Even after her rework, she was STILL hated because they accentuated that playstyle even more AND turbo-bloated her kit. She managed to achieve over a 70% KR and was reviled at all levels of play.

    TLDR; SM has a FAR worse rep than Billy or Sadako ever did. Billy was well-liked, Sadako had her haters, and the community at large wanted SM gone. Returning Sadako or Billy to their former selves, with fixes, was generally accepted since they had specific issues. Returning SM to her previous state will not be accepted due to her reputation being in tatters, her unengaging gameplay loop and the resulting public backlash.

    That makes no sense to say that because she's hate that means she needs to be rework

    Skull merchant 2.0 was nowhere close to being problematic as she once was before to unlike her 1.0 variant, but she did have issues that needed adjustment

    For all we know, people could hate on this 3.0 variant and still dc and complain against her whether it's a success of a rework or a complete catastrophic failure

    Her reputation will forever be this hated

  • @jasonq500 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910210#Comment_3910210

    That makes no sense to say that because she's hate that means she needs to be rework

    Skull merchant 2.0 was nowhere close to being problematic as she once was before to unlike her 1.0 variant, but she did have issues that needed adjustment

    For all we know, people could hate on this 3.0 variant and still dc and complain against her whether it's a success of a rework or a complete catastrophic failure

    Her reputation will forever be this hated

    I don't get how skull merchant 2.0 can be so despised but there's no commotion over Clown, who is basically the same thing.

  • @100PercentBPMain said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910230#Comment_3910230

    I don't get how skull merchant 2.0 can be so despised but there's no commotion over Clown, who is basically the same thing.

    The same thing but objectively worse, mind, because he lacks nearly as much counterplay, the gameplay involved is much less nuanced/interactive, and his power has a much lower skill ceiling.

  • @jasonq500 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910210#Comment_3910210

    That makes no sense to say that because she's hate that means she needs to be rework

    Skull merchant 2.0 was nowhere close to being problematic as she once was before to unlike her 1.0 variant, but she did have issues that needed adjustment

    For all we know, people could hate on this 3.0 variant and still dc and complain against her whether it's a success of a rework or a complete catastrophic failure

    Her reputation will forever be this hated

    You must admit that you are pretty biased in this whole opinion of SM thing.

    It is important that we get it right this time because I doubt they will continue to invest resources in what is, unfortunately, a failed concept.

  • @jasonq500 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910198#Comment_3910198

    I'm not saying that they should be reverted and be kept as is, I'm saying keep aspect that I and others like about skull merchant in her rework and not go with this current preview that they have in mind and try a different approach

    which brings in to your question about which killer was brought back to the previous version was sadako

    Bhvr brought back Sadako's first design when she was reworked last year, they brought back what people liked about her while incorporating new aspects of her condemn mechanic

    The things you like are oft the things the community at large seemed to hate.

    I do not know how to bridge the gap between two sides unwilling to move.

  • @100PercentBPMain said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910230#Comment_3910230

    I don't get how skull merchant 2.0 can be so despised but there's no commotion over Clown, who is basically the same thing.

    There's definitely been some discussion on Clown over the years. He's never been a particularly popular Killer to face.

    Main thing is that Clown is easy to understand, easier to counter and weaker than SM was.

  • @100PercentBPMain said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910230#Comment_3910230

    I don't get how skull merchant 2.0 can be so despised but there's no commotion over Clown, who is basically the same thing.

    To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard or met a single person who enjoys playing against Clown.

    The main difference is that Clown doesn't have the leftover baggage from Chess Merchant hanging over him.

    Clown also doesn't have the lockon pipping mechanic. Once you get a pip towards a tracking beacon put on you, there's no way to get it off without getting put in the dying state or just forcing it yourself by intentionally running into a beam. That's a pretty uniquely annoying aspect of playing against Skully.

    Clown doesn't have a stealth component to his kit, either. I think a lot of people really hate getting injured in a way that feels cheap/unfair. This is why I think so much of the Ghoul feedback at the moment is on his ability to get free and basically unavoidable injuries, as opposed to what I think is his bigger problem that he still has pretty great chase potential and map presence on top of getting super free injuries, which is something Plague and Legion don't have

    Skully's stealth isn't the main component of her kit, but she is unique in that she has no pre-warning or stalking mechanic. She just walks up on you extremely quietly and then M1s you. It's definitely the most obnoxious part of playing against her to me.

    Skull Merchant's actual power in the drones is not really that bad to play against, at least I think.

  • @Adriana_ghoul said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910201#Comment_3910201

    Absolutely she did in her scan line version, She also had problematic parts to her kit. However where is the consistency?

    When you look at the other "annoying" killers and how they were handled:

    • Chucky got nerfed then rebuffed
    • Dracula got buffs
    • HM got huge buffs
    • Xeno had their changes instantly reverted and overall they were buffed
    • Knight got buffed
    • Twins received mild nerfs
    • Blight received mild nerfs
    • Legion got buffed

    All these killers have had questionably bad rep over DBD. Why does only Merchant receive an absolute nuking and then their mains are told to go ######### themselves with a cactus by having their character deleted?

    According to Chucky mains, he got dumpstered for a while.

    Can't speak for HM or Dracula as they are after my time.

    Knight got nerfed with his rework. His strongest, and most unhealthy, strategy was removed.

    They tried a Twins rework and gave up. That is what awaits SM if we do not get this right.

    Blight got some addon nerfs after YEARS of complaints. Nobody knows why they don't nerf Nurse and/or Blight.

    Legion got dumpstered worse than SM for THREE YEARS before they changed him at all. Literally sat untouched for three years.

    The only one that has had close to SM's rep is probably Legion.

  • @Zakon05 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910232#Comment_3910232

    To be fair, I don't think I've ever heard or met a single person who enjoys playing against Clown.

    The main difference is that Clown doesn't have the leftover baggage from Chess Merchant hanging over him.

    Clown also doesn't have the lockon pipping mechanic. Once you get a pip towards a tracking beacon put on you, there's no way to get it off without getting put in the dying state or just forcing it yourself by intentionally running into a beam. That's a pretty uniquely annoying aspect of playing against Skully.

    Clown doesn't have a stealth component to his kit, either. I think a lot of people really hate getting injured in a way that feels cheap/unfair. This is why I think so much of the Ghoul feedback at the moment is on his ability to get free and basically unavoidable injuries, as opposed to what I think is his bigger problem that he still has pretty great chase potential and map presence on top of getting super free injuries, which is something Plague and Legion don't have

    Skully's stealth isn't the main component of her kit, but she is unique in that she has no pre-warning or stalking mechanic. She just walks up on you extremely quietly and then M1s you. It's definitely the most obnoxious part of playing against her to me.

    Skull Merchant's actual power in the drones is not really that bad to play against, at least I think.

    I also think that Clown is rather intuitive to understand how to play against.

    A lot of SM's 2.0 kit was not intuitive. Lock-on Hindered you, but she also got Haste. She could be stealth, pallets don't work with a claw trap, she enforced a leave loop or die playstyle which was pretty much every new Killer release at the time, not an issue specifically with her, but it didn't help.

    Just a lot of bloat on her kit.

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910250#Comment_3910250

    I also think that Clown is rather intuitive to understand how to play against.

    A lot of SM's 2.0 kit was not intuitive. Lock-on Hindered you, but she also got Haste. She could be stealth, pallets don't work with a claw trap, she enforced a leave loop or die playstyle which was pretty much every new Killer release at the time, not an issue specifically with her, but it didn't help.

    Just a lot of bloat on her kit.

    "Lock-on Hindered you, but she also got Haste. She could be stealth, pallets don't work with a claw trap, she enforced a leave loop or die playstyle which was pretty much every new Killer release at the time, not an issue specifically with her, but it didn't help.

    Just a lot of bloat on her kit."

    … I agree! But the scanline mechanic itself wasn't a problem; it was the "random bullshit go!" approach in terms of the payoff for scanlines. They could have streamlined her power significantly, cut out the Haste and Hinder and given her some new method of lethality against clawtrapped Survs, but kept the scan-and-stack + clawtrap system the same and we wouldn't be having this conversation. I've been pressuring BHVR for that in my videos for the past 18 months!

  • @PixelBush said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910253#Comment_3910253

    "Lock-on Hindered you, but she also got Haste. She could be stealth, pallets don't work with a claw trap, she enforced a leave loop or die playstyle which was pretty much every new Killer release at the time, not an issue specifically with her, but it didn't help.

    Just a lot of bloat on her kit."

    … I agree! But the scanline mechanic itself wasn't a problem; it was the "random bullshit go!" approach in terms of the payoff for scanlines. They could have streamlined her power significantly, cut out the Haste and Hinder and given her some new method of lethality against clawtrapped Survs, but kept the scan-and-stack + clawtrap system the same and we wouldn't be having this conversation. I've been pressuring BHVR for that in my videos for the past 18 months!

    PixelBush: The SM hero we need but don't deserve :-)

  • @PixelBush said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910253#Comment_3910253

    "Lock-on Hindered you, but she also got Haste. She could be stealth, pallets don't work with a claw trap, she enforced a leave loop or die playstyle which was pretty much every new Killer release at the time, not an issue specifically with her, but it didn't help.

    Just a lot of bloat on her kit."

    … I agree! But the scanline mechanic itself wasn't a problem; it was the "random bullshit go!" approach in terms of the payoff for scanlines. They could have streamlined her power significantly, cut out the Haste and Hinder and given her some new method of lethality against clawtrapped Survs, but kept the scan-and-stack + clawtrap system the same and we wouldn't be having this conversation. I've been pressuring BHVR for that in my videos for the past 18 months!

    I don't think so.

    Having a huge AoE scanning radius is not going to be a good design. It will either be too weak, which is what we have currently, or it will be too strong, which is what we used to have. Essentially, Legion-syndrome.

    It seems to me that BHVR can make nobody happy. SM will not be happy until they get what they want and the community at-large is unlikely to accept that.

    Hopefully, they give it one last shot and stop wasting resources on another failed Killer design. Sucks to say, but it is the truth.

  • @PixelBush said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910198#Comment_3910198

    "When has BHVR ever brought a previous version of a Killer back?"

    They've done it before. Sadako and Billy have both had problematic reworks wound back because their mains yelled about it. Sadako 3.0 is basically a rebuild of her original version with a lot of the problems ironed out, and Billy mains were overjoyed with Billy going back to a non-Overheat state.

    Why do Sadako and Billy mains get to have what they want but not us?

    Billy as able to be buffed because the maps were changed so much that he was no problematic on them. Remember that the old maps were filled with smooth vertical walls at 90 degree angles, and pretty much everything was 90 degree angles that were super easy to curve around. The maps have changed A LOT since then. Maps are now filled with irregularly shaped loops, that are purposely designed to stop dash killers from getting guaranteed hits.

    Billy's rework reverse had nothing to do with killer complaints.

    Sadako had a partial rework reversal, because her rework was super problematic. Sadako having global condemned meant that if a survivor didn't pick up a tape early, then Sadako would spam teleports, and the survivors would gain a bunch of condemned stacks, and not have any TVs to grab a tape from, and therefore would just run around in a panic, because they couldn't get rid of their condemned stacks.

    Sadako's rework reverse had nothing to do with killer complaints.

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910266#Comment_3910266

    I don't think so.

    Having a huge AoE scanning radius is not going to be a good design. It will either be too weak, which is what we have currently, or it will be too strong, which is what we used to have. Essentially, Legion-syndrome.

    It seems to me that BHVR can make nobody happy. SM will not be happy until they get what they want and the community at-large is unlikely to accept that.

    Hopefully, they give it one last shot and stop wasting resources on another failed Killer design. Sucks to say, but it is the truth.

    It was never too strong. People just didn't bother to learn how to play against it. a common issue of survivor laziness.

  • I really respect this initiative.

    I hope those who are presently invested in the game's future are taking advantage of this opportunity to have an honest, constructive conversation about the potential direction of a DLC rework during the early stages of a design process.

    This is a rare chance to save the community and the developers from further heartache and, if successful, could set a precedent for addressing complex design challenges in the future.

    Best of luck to all involved and effected!

  • In this rework plan, drones do not support camping, slugging, and 3gen? That's impossible. If there is an ability to see and attack survivors at long distances, players will use it. However, if they say they will not support it, they will probably make it into a system like that. Perhaps the drone's attack can injure but not knock down, and it will put them in a deep wound state. That's probably how it is. At least, it doesn't seem strong. It would be more reasonable to use Kaneki equipped with a search perk than to use such a killer.

  • Okay so I wanted to get a pulse reading from the Community on this, so I posted Ryan's Post to Reddit to see what they think:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1jwu9v6/skull_merchant_preview_results_are_in_51_are/

    Surprising me is how many are fine with a 51% approval rating start and they don't really seem to care that 26% disapprove.
    However many do say they found the Survey very hard to properly express why they think a thing works and don't.
    There also is a lot of sentiment of basically saying "screw what the Skullmerchant Mains think", which is actually worrying me seems people are much more interested in getting rid of the old SM and getting a new, the details of which don't matter much.

    I do hope you guys check it out and read what people have to say, cause its interesting.

    My position is still, Try to make another Alternative Preview again and see how it is received.
    Hell, get all the SM mains in a room and make them compromise on a design they all agree on and lets see that.
    Honestly, I just think its too early to commit to the remote control drone idea, we can always make that idea into another Killer in the future if you wish. Hey, if you need people to do it for you, I don't got a job rn.

  • Leaving aside the 21% who are neutral, the 25% who are against the rework will not be satisfied with the reworked Skull Merchant. Because their playstyle is different. But what about the 51% who are in favor? They agree with the proposal only on paper, but what if they actually operate it and it is weaker than they expected? The rush speed is too slow, the operating time is too short... The worst case scenario is that the existing Skull Merchant mains are wiped out, the new Skull Merchant is laughed at by the supporters, and there are just more stupid killers. No one will be happy. Please keep that in mind when making adjustments.

    ......That's what I wanted to say. However, I tried to implement a function that allows you to see the Skull Merchant when you hack the drone. I said I would make it a ranged attack killer that doesn't support camping, slugging, or 3gen. I think this rework is too risky.

    Sorry for the Google translation

  • @Emeal said:

    Okay so I wanted to get a pulse reading from the Community on this, so I posted Ryan's Post to Reddit to see what they think:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1jwu9v6/skull_merchant_preview_results_are_in_51_are/

    Surprising me is how many are fine with a 51% approval rating start and they don't really seem to care that 26% disapprove.
    However many do say they found the Survey very hard to properly express why they think a thing works and don't.
    There also is a lot of sentiment of basically saying "screw what the Skullmerchant Mains think", which is actually worrying me seems people are much more interested in getting rid of the old SM and getting a new, the details of which don't matter much.

    I do hope you guys check it out and read what people have to say, cause its interesting.

    My position is still, Try to make another Alternative Preview again and see how it is received.
    Hell, get all the SM mains in a room and make them compromise on a design they all agree on and lets see that.
    Honestly, I just think its too early to commit to the remote control drone idea, we can always make that idea into another Killer in the future if you wish. Hey, if you need people to do it for you, I don't got a job rn.

    Reddit is an echo chamber of morons that don't know what they are talking about.

    That 51% statistic is worthless because it lacks one key context: ANYTHING would have been met with majority (no matter how small of a majority it was) approval because it wasn't Skull Merchant anymore. They aren't interested in making her healthy or viable or even usable. They just want her gone. And the fact BHVR is bending so far backwards for these people is honestly disgusting.

    Also, the fact people keep bringing up Sadako as being fine now is laughable. She's in a pretty terrible state at the moment, even ignoring that her Demanifest power is STILL bugged and not working properly.

  • @Marzipan210 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910340#Comment_3910340

    It was never too strong. People just didn't bother to learn how to play against it. a common issue of survivor laziness.

    70% KR says otherwise.

  • @Marzipan210 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910340#Comment_3910340

    It was never too strong. People just didn't bother to learn how to play against it. a common issue of survivor laziness.

    Skull Merchant was an actual S-tier killer, because she had like a 70% kill rate. In actual public games, she was the most S-tier in the entire game.

    Compare this to the fake tier lists that people like to make, based on the top 0.0001% of the players, that isn't relevant at all to public DBD games. Those tier lists are fake, because discussing how killers perform when 7,000+ hour players play 7,000+ hour players in custom games, isn't relevant at all to public DBD games, and like 99.9999% of the players are playing public games.

  • @Adriana_ghoul said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910472#Comment_3910472

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910484#Comment_3910484

    Using killrates in the big 2025 is crazy work.

    How is anyone supposed to reach any logical conclusion when yall unironically think shes stronger than Nurse 😭

    Let's not pretend you wouldn't be freaking out if SM had a 30% KR. Clearly, KR's mean something, but only until they contradict your point.

    To the rest of your comment:

    In a vacuum? No, she is not.

    Taking into consideration her ease of use versus her power ratio, plus adding in her diabolical bloat? Well, now you start getting somewhere.

  • @ObsidianButterfly said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910443#Comment_3910443

    Reddit is an echo chamber of morons that don't know what they are talking about.

    That 51% statistic is worthless because it lacks one key context: ANYTHING would have been met with majority (no matter how small of a majority it was) approval because it wasn't Skull Merchant anymore. They aren't interested in making her healthy or viable or even usable. They just want her gone. And the fact BHVR is bending so far backwards for these people is honestly disgusting.

    Also, the fact people keep bringing up Sadako as being fine now is laughable. She's in a pretty terrible state at the moment, even ignoring that her Demanifest power is STILL bugged and not working properly.

    To be fair, if they just wanted her gone, they'd leave her as she is now. And I doubt they really want any killers gone, because they don't make money that way.

    I honestly feel for those who main(ed) her and invested a ton of time mastering her kit, but the thing some people seem unwilling to see is how universally and apocalyptically despised she was/is. You simply can't say "well, they did this for X killer, why won't they do it for SM?" as if everything else is equal. SM is not Billy, SM is not Onryo. SM is her own whole own phenomenon.

    Skull Merchant has been an historically and singularly reviled killer, on a level not comparable to any other I can recall. Why that is the case is may not be wholly rational, but it's largely irrelevant. It just is what it is.

    And I think that logically speaking, keeping her as she was or reverting her makes a lot less business sense. The fact of the matter is that the SM main community is tiny compared to the community at large, and this is a business above all else. They not going to bend over backwards to placate the like five Skull Merchant mains, even if one of them is outspoken and has a notable YT channel.

    Dead killers don't make money, and they've already got at least one killer who is effectively dead (Twins) and a few who are close to it, and I am guessing the don't want more. This is a salvage operation, and wholesale change was the only real path forward to a future with her in it.

    And if nothing else, I'm actually encouraged that they're willing to essentially remake a killer. I think their hesitation to do so has doomed other killers. And she may yet be doomed, but I applaud the effort if not the details.

  • @Adriana_ghoul said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910472#Comment_3910472

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910484#Comment_3910484

    Using killrates in the big 2025 is crazy work.

    How is anyone supposed to reach any logical conclusion when yall unironically think shes stronger than Nurse 😭

    Nurse doesn't overperform in public games, which is what people should care about, since those are the games that 99.9999% of the players are playing.

    People should care about how well a killer performs IN THE GAMES THEY PLAY, and not how well a killer performs in 7,000+ hour comp games. Yes, there should be multiple tier lists, based on different MMR levels. Skull Merchant was severely overperforming in the majority of games she was playing.

    If someone is average MMR, and they asked "which killer should I pick, that gives me the maximum chances to win the game", then the answer was Skull Merchant.

  • @Thusly_Boned said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910468#Comment_3910468

    To be fair, if they just wanted her gone, they'd leave her as she is now. And I doubt they really want any killers gone, because they don't make money that way.

    I honestly feel for those who main(ed) her and invested a ton of time mastering her kit, but the thing some people seem unwilling to see is how universally and apocalyptically despised she was/is. You simply can't say "well, they did this for X killer, why won't they do it for SM?" as if everything else is equal. SM is not Billy, SM is not Onryo. SM is her own whole own phenomenon.

    Skull Merchant has been an historically and singularly reviled killer, on a level not comparable to any other I can recall. Why that is the case is may not be wholly rational, but it's largely irrelevant. It just is what it is.

    And I think that logically speaking, keeping her as she was or reverting her makes a lot less business sense. The fact of the matter is that the SM main community is tiny compared to the community at large, and this is a business above all else. They not going to bend over backwards to placate the like five Skull Merchant mains, even if one of them is outspoken and has a notable YT channel.

    Dead killers don't make money, and they've already got at least one killer who is effectively dead (Twins) and a few who are close to it, and I am guessing the don't want more. This is a salvage operation, and wholesale change was the only real path forward to a future with her in it.

    And if nothing else, I'm actually encouraged that they're willing to essentially remake a killer. I think their hesitation to do so has doomed other killers. And she may yet be doomed, but I applaud the effort if not the details.

    If they want to salvage this Killer's reputation, then turning her into 5-Victor Twins with a Ph.D in 3-genning, camping, slugging and camping slugs is quite probably the worst possible way of doing it.

    Regardless of my personal feelings about the Killer herself, the rework proposed by BHVR is a laughable failure and anyone who's played as much Twins as me, with all the issues that Killer has, will recognise that. Hell, BHVR themselves in the above post acknowledged these would be issues they're trying to address… we'll see if they manage to address those issues though. If removing the ability to camp and slug from a kit was as easy as that post suggests, then they'd have done it to Twins already.

    This rework is a complete joke, a waste of development time on a conceptual level, and if they want to save the Killer's reputation long term it'd be a better use of that time to improve what we already have than it would be to unleash the horrors of 5 Victor Slugging Chess Merchant onto the game.

  • @PixelBush said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910551#Comment_3910551

    If they want to salvage this Killer's reputation, then turning her into 5-Victor Twins with a Ph.D in 3-genning, camping, slugging and camping slugs is quite probably the worst possible way of doing it.

    Regardless of my personal feelings about the Killer herself, the rework proposed by BHVR is a laughable failure and anyone who's played as much Twins as me, with all the issues that Killer has, will recognise that. Hell, BHVR themselves in the above post acknowledged these would be issues they're trying to address… we'll see if they manage to address those issues though. If removing the ability to camp and slug from a kit was as easy as that post suggests, then they'd have done it to Twins already.

    This rework is a complete joke, a waste of development time on a conceptual level, and if they want to save the Killer's reputation long term it'd be a better use of that time to improve what we already have than it would be to unleash the horrors of 5 Victor Slugging Chess Merchant onto the game.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not in love with the proposed rework (as it has been presented thus far) by any means. What I do appreciate is the willingness to make bold, sweeping changes to a killer of the the sort that they have been unwilling to make before. To admit a failure and take it back to the drawing board rather than re-shuffle the deck chairs on a doomed ship. I didn't think they had it in them, and that SM would simply rot on the island of misfit killers.

    But as we sit here today, I think two things are almost certainly true:

    1. Old Skull Merchant is dead. I think the odds of a reversion of any sort are essentially nil.
    2. For there to be a future for the character at all, the changes made must be wholly transformative (i.e. an essentially new power altogether).

    I just think our energies on this subject would best be spent helping shape the "new" killer to come rather than trying to will a refined iteration of the old SM into existence. Fortunately, it seems we're well away from a finished product here and there is time to influence the shape of the changes, if not the general course of the process.

    And I also believe that BHVR likely see this as a low risk (and potentially high reward) move. Even if this rework ends up an abject failure, the killer's fate will functionally be the same as if they had left her as she was; hated and/or abandoned.

  • @Thusly_Boned said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3910830#Comment_3910830

    Don't get me wrong, I am not in love with the proposed rework (as it has been presented thus far) by any means. What I do appreciate is the willingness to make bold, sweeping changes to a killer of the the sort that they have been unwilling to make before. To admit a failure and take it back to the drawing board rather than re-shuffle the deck chairs on a doomed ship. I didn't think they had it in them, and that SM would simply rot on the island of misfit killers.

    But as we sit here today, I think two things are almost certainly true:

    1. Old Skull Merchant is dead. I think the odds of a reversion of any sort are essentially nil.
    2. For there to be a future for the character at all, the changes made must be wholly transformative (i.e. an essentially new power altogether).

    I just think our energies on this subject would best be spent helping shape the "new" killer to come rather than trying to will a refined iteration of the old SM into existence. Fortunately, it seems we're well away from a finished product here and there is time to influence the shape of the changes, if not the general course of the process.

    And I also believe that BHVR likely see this as a low risk (and potentially high reward) move. Even if this rework ends up an abject failure, the killer's fate will functionally be the same as if they had left her as she was; hated and/or abandoned.

    Turning her into a projectile/dash focused killer is not the answer.

    If they are going to remove her as a trap focused killer and fundamentally change how her power works, then they should focus on two core aspect:

    1. The ability to place drones around the map to provide location information (they no longer apply debuffs or buffs; are purely information)
    2. Focus on her concept as a stalking hunter and put emphasis on stealth. Give her the ability to enter Wraith-style invisibility/undetectable under the condition a survivor has been recently scanned and shows up on the radar.

    The only decent idea out of the proposal was the Global thing, which could be good with some adjustments. For example, when a Survivor gains three lock-on stacks, Merchant can activate 'None can hide' (name doesn't matter) that consumes the lock-on stacks and reveals all survivors by Killer Instinct for 20 seconds (it needs to be somewhat long because she has no mobility).

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