Why did you change Pinhead's chain to be considered an attack?

Recently, there's been a bug with Save the Best for Last, where the Killer incorrectly loses 2 tokens if they use power to the obsession

 without injuring them. Similarly, each time Pinhead successfully uses his chain on the obsession, it reduces 2 tokens from Save the Best for Last. It's evident that you've set Pinhead's chain as an attack.


This issue has been observed in the past with Play with Your Food as well. Even though the chain cannot cause any harm, using it deducts 1 tokens from Play with Your Food each time.


However, after your Bot release, I tested it and found that only when equipped with Engineer's Fang does Pinhead's chain count as an attack. But after the release of The Skull Merchant, the chain is always considered an attack, regardless of the circumstances. This implies that you made changes in these two versions, yet I didn't find any mention of this in your announcements.


I've asked numerous times about the criteria for Pinhead's chain, but you've been reluctant to respond. Please clarify during this Save the Best for Last issue whether the change in Pinhead's chain judgment is a bug or a secret modification.

Comments

  • I think it’s intended

    devs said in an earlier thread something about that (I think)

  • @D0NN1ED4RK0 said:

    I think it’s intended

    devs said in an earlier thread something about that (I think)

    Idk about the death slinger one being the same from what I remember but having every trickster knife reduce stacks does NOT seem intended. Deathslinger only if you actually take a health state and not if the spear hits the survivor.

  • @Brimp said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648334#Comment_3648334

    Idk about the death slinger one being the same from what I remember but having every trickster knife reduce stacks does NOT seem intended. Deathslinger only if you actually take a health state and not if the spear hits the survivor.

    I remember when they changed blood favour and simply one trickster knife blocked a pallet lol

  • Yeah the slinger and pinhead part of new stbfl is dumb. People wanted a simple nerf on hits on obsessions via special attacks from what i saw. Now half the people that used it well can't.

  • Thank you for nerfing STBFL, one of the very few ex-meta perks that werent involved in heavy slowdown gens meta. Now its just so simple for all Killers, just run 4 slowdowns, no need for perk diversity.

  • @Chocolate_Cosmos said:

    Thank you for nerfing STBFL, one of the very few ex-meta perks that werent involved in heavy slowdown gens meta. Now its just so simple for all Killers, just run 4 slowdowns, no need for perk diversity.

    Dont worry just throw on grim embrace,dms,deadlock, pain resonance. See theres other ways to win consistently that arent hard meta-wait...well at least all 4 of them give more catchup than stbfl ever did.

  • @supersonic853 said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648395#Comment_3648395

    Dont worry just throw on grim embrace,dms,deadlock, pain resonance. See theres other ways to win consistently that arent hard meta-wait...well at least all 4 of them give more catchup than stbfl ever did.

    My always biggest dream was to see all best builds for each killer and see all same 4-6 perks on repeat across all 30+ killers such wonderfull-wait wha..

  • They claim it’s intended but there’s absolutely no way that’s true. They either don’t know how to fix it or don’t care enough to fix it.

  • @H2H said:

    They claim it’s intended but there’s absolutely no way that’s true. They either don’t know how to fix it or don’t care enough to fix it.

    It works the same as PWYF, for which there is a great table here:

    Play with Your Food is a Unique Perkbelonging to The Shape.Prestige The Shape to Prestige 1, 2, 3 respectively to unlock Tier I, Tier II, Tier III of Play with Your Food for all other Characters. Nerf: decreased the Movement Speed bonus to 3/4/5 % per Token. Nerf: added a cool-down timer to Token-accumulation. Change: updated the Perk's description to specify the types of Attack instead of just referring to them as "offensive actions". Tokens are acquired whenever the Killer's Obsession escapes

    As such it IS intentional, but there are a few things I think that should be altered for both perks.

    The really curious one is Pinhead chains remove stacks... but wounding with Engineers Fang does not.

  • Unironically they destroyed the perk on the killers that could use secondary attacks to save stacks on the ptb then destroyed it for everyone else on live making it even worse. If it is intentional which I doubt it because it just seems like they tried to reuse pwyf code without a second thought then its one of the worst balancing decisions I have seem by far seemingly because they can't code a perk to just work if damage was done by the killer including special attacks without just reusing the any damage code or pwyf code.

  • @UndeddJester said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648410#Comment_3648410

    It works the same as PWYF, for which there is a great table here:

    https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Play_with_Your_Food

    As such it IS intentional, but there are a few things I think that should be altered for both perks.

    The really curious one is Pinhead chains remove stacks... but wounding with Engineers Fang does not.

    The really curious one is Pinhead chains remove stacks... but wounding with Engineers Fang does not.

    i think that just implies that launching the chain will use up a stack, but that chain injuring won't use another.

  • @NerfDHalready said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648450#Comment_3648450

    The really curious one is Pinhead chains remove stacks... but wounding with Engineers Fang does not.

    i think that just implies that launching the chain will use up a stack, but that chain injuring won't use another.

    That... can't be right... because if you launch a chain you'd lose a stack every time just for the obsession existing... regardless the engineers familiar confuses me no end.

    Like Trapper traps and Plague spit not counting I understand, those make sense. Deathslinger spear I understand even if it sucks that it 2 taps. Trickster does make sense as written, but that is harsh... but Pinhead just doesn't make sense at all.

    Also this table might be out of date... as Skull Merchant beams aren't on there (though I assume they don't count either).

    I'm not at home for a few more days to lab this... but it definitely needs to be labbed 🤨

  • @UndeddJester said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648465#Comment_3648465

    That... can't be right... because if you launch a chain you'd lose a stack every time just for the obsession existing... regardless the engineers familiar confuses me no end.

    Like Trapper traps and Plague spit not counting I understand, those make sense. Deathslinger spear I understand even if it sucks that it 2 taps. Trickster does make sense as written, but that is harsh... but Pinhead just doesn't make sense at all.

    Also this table might be out of date... as Skull Merchant beams aren't on there (though I assume they don't count either).

    I'm not at home for a few more days to lab this... but it definitely needs to be labbed 🤨

    It only takes STBFL tokens away if the chain actually hits the obsession (with or without Engineer’s Fang). While it is currently using most of the same rules as PWYF, there is a key difference in that only successful attacks matter for STBFL (unlike PWYF which loses tokens for missed attacks too).

    Pinhead chains have gone through a few changes with this for PWYF specifically (way before it was even relevant for STBFL), at first it never depleted PWYF tokens, then they made it so only Engineer’s Fang did, now it always does (and for a while it was bugged so that Engineer’s Fang took 2 tokens, but that’s fixed now).

    Also, can confirm Skull Merchant drones don’t deplete STBFL tokens.

  • Maybe this was the reason why STBFl went unchanged for so many years.