The SFTBL Epidemic (Why STBFL Needs A Nerf)
Ever since the Alien chapter (at least what I've seen) There's been a surge of STBFL users. Nothing wrong with a lot of killers using a decently strong perk. HOWEVER, it's not just certain types of killers but they're playstyles as well that makes the perk VERY annoying to go up against. M2 Killers like Demo, Slinger, Wesker, etc etc. These killers usually use STBFL since they can get almost UNLIMITED value off the perk due to them having an M2 attack that doesn't rid stacks since M2s doesn't remove a stack if you hit the obsession's with it. So what problems does this cause?
-Survivors will have a harder time countering a perk as only the obsessions will have the ability to do so. But since killers can M2 attack, the perk is almost uncounterable. All perks should have either a counter or downside and if those can be avoided EASILY I mid you, easily, then the perk is not healthy.
-Killer performance plummeting to the ground. No need to learn useful Demo shreds at loops. No need to find places to trickshot with slinger. No need to go for unique tech bounds with Wesker when all you do is M1 as its easier, less punishing and you get a benefit to your M1 cooldown reduction. Basically you get rewarded for playing safe and easy. No need to even learn how to mindgame loops since you can Zone them with your M2, pushing them from a loop making it easier for you to hit them. This makes killers worse in terms of overall performance as they never learn how to micro and macro game, use their abilities to their fullest potential and lose more often because they spent time micromanaging they're playstyle to a single perk. This brings people to say "X killer needs a buff" when really most are not playing them optimally due to a single perk. This creates boring games which...cmon.
On top of that one midchapter from a year or 2 ago that shortened the cooldown of a killers basekit M1 attack cooldown (basically basekit 2 stacks of STBFL) and a shortened duration of the Survivors speedboost after an attack, it's safe to say that this perk, though not overpowered, can be very problematic to both survivors and killers in the long run.
-How would I nerf STBFL?
First I'd start out with removing 2 stacks, bringing it back to it's original stats before the midchapter that reduced killers m1 cooldown. Second, I'll make it to when the obsession loses a health state by ANY means, they'll lose a stack. Meaning M2s can cause them to lose a stack. No more using M2s to avoid stacks. Third, I'd also make it to wear if the obsessions dies, a random survivor becomes the new obsessions. This will stop the killer from tunneling the obsession out the game in order to gain stacks without having to worry about the obsession taking hits to remove stacks or just worry about losing stacks while in a chase with them in general.
I would also like to BUFF STBFL.
-M2 attacks can ALSO help you gain a stack. Is this controversial? Yeah. But it'll be unfair for killers to lose stacks M2ing and not gain them from M2ing. We want to encourage M2 killers to use their power more in order to make more better, smarter and more skillful killers without a perk hindering them. STBFL still ONLY reduces M1 cooldowns though, not M2s.
All of these changes will still make STBFL viable to all killers, but discourages M2 killers from utilizing the perk while avoiding all the downsides that come with it. These changes will also force killers to use their M2 more as they can't use it JUST on the obsessions to avoid stacks, but they can also use it to gain stacks as well. This change will keep the perk strong but healthy.
Let me know your thoughts below please! Thank you for your time!
Comments
calling for nerfs to the prime m1 killer perk and wanting to keep mft which screws over m1 killers the most and they wonder why those "sweaty dirty killer mains" play top tier killers only. i wonder too.
As of late man I’ve been mainly playing survivor! Probably like a 75-25 split. I can’t be fully classified as a filthy, sweaty, non-showering blight main right now!
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Guess I'll have to sweat for the both of us, then. Maybe I'll slap on Huntress Lullaby again.
Don’t worry, the sweaty nea build and map offering I bring every match is enough to make you throw up in your mouth.
I’ll run some full slow-down alch ring/c33 blight tonight, just for you. :D
Exactly... Nothing will really changed if this perk is tweaked to be back to Pre 6.1.0; as this is undermine the problem that this perk benefits weak M1 killers that don't necessarily have a strong M2 power to make up for it, for speed ans efficiency in chase. It may have been overtuned after that 6.1.0 update; but back then, many players didn't notice how significant it was when they group up and let the killer farm non obsession tokens. The Survivor should have been more aware that this perk is active by visually seeing the increase in attack recovery speed after successfully hits and avoid feeding him stacks or better yet; if you are the obsession, bodyblock the killer and forced to it you to lose stacks or sacrifice yourself when he has no stacks so the killer can no longer farm STBFL tokens.
This perk has a clear counter, that most average Survivors players are not aware, and that is why it is stronger and overrated decent perk, when they dont used their obsession to forced them to loose stacks.
Thanks. You really know how to make people feel special.
You literally can't unhook someone if the killer is camping with a few stbfl stacks.
If the Killer is face camping and it's not after 5 gens done, then the hook survivor can just unhook themselves.
If the Killer is not face camping then you have time to get the save.
If it is end game, then just open the escape and leave.
"Just give the exploiting killer what he wants, because reasons" well okay. Still gonna ask for a stbfl nerf tho.
Using STBFL isn't exploiting. Besides killers like Leatherface and Huntress can successfully facecamp a survivor in end game and they don't use STBFL. So the percieved issue has nothing to do with STBFL and it's not even an issue because it's very clear that BHVR is fine with killers facecamping in endgame and securing a kill given that the AFC stops working and perks like DS and OTR turn off as well.
You're the only one obsessing over egc when I didn't even mention it. It should deactivate on egc tho, since most decent survivor perks deactivate as well. Balance, right?
Because if the killer is facecamping before the gens are finished, the survivor on hook can unhook themselves. And if the killer isn't facecamping then they literally can't interupt you with an M1.
Basically the "issue" isn't an issue.
And survivor perks deactivate in end game, because it's an asymm.
That's cute and all but killers who want to camp do so in a way that simultaneously denies the new anti camp system while also preventing unhooking by just...approaching the hook? You don't play survivor and it shows.
You cannot solo unhook, but then again you are not necessarily supposed to get a solo unhook every time, sometimes you need your team to take hits.
If the killer is staying 16+m away from the hook, then being M1 is not a problem because lunges only reach around 6m.
I play plenty of survivor and STBFL facecamping just isn't a real issue with AFC in the game.
It's very clear you aren't interesting in the facts and just want to endlessly complain about STBFL instead of learning how to deal with it properly.
Yes you should, which is why they removed hook grabs. You need to catch up. Unhooks by solo survs with a camping killers will always end up being a trade anyway, so what are you complaining about?
You're not supposed to get a kill every game, sometimes you just have to take the piss and move on.
So why are DS and OTR disabled end game? 8 stacks STBFL guarantees a kill if a survivor is hooked via facecamping even if the obsession takes the down.
Huntress and Bubba facecamping is also a problem. Doesn't mean STBFL isn't.
Much like DeadLock the perks are fine outside of camping and quickly become unhealthy when the killer facecamps.
Because the devs decided it's better for killers to be able to secure a single kill at the end of the game rather than survivors having free escapes.
Facecamping also isn't a problem anymore with the anti facecamping system. If the killer is facecamping, do gens and let them unhook themselves.
You mean free kills? Because this is what you're talking about: free kills :)
Sometimes you get bad games and get stomped, that's how it works :)
They removed hook grabs because the mini game was stupid and because of ping and what not the whole thing was inconsistent af.
Just think of insta down killers, if you try to unhook against them you will more often than not not even get the 1 for 1 trade.
Also I did not complain at all about stbfl at hooks, I just said you might need more than one player to take hits so you can unhook without going down before even managing to unhook.
Because those two perks basically guarantee a free escape if they are active at the point, and 8 stacks can still be outplayed if the doors are close and you can take hits, sure it is not easy to do, but it is possible most of the time. And you need to get to 8 stacks first, whereas the only thing you need to do for the other ones is get hooked and have the perk and unhooked again.
I mean it is not free, you still need to down them again without their team tanking hits and what not... So you maybe wanna be a bit more specific here, your claim is rather one sided...
So you admit stbfl can be the equivalent of an insta-down mechanic, thank you.
No? Because against a myers in t3 there is no taking hits and what not, against stbfl you can still take hits and get the unhook... I already said above, the same post you were quoting that it can be done against stbfl but against insta down killers you will probably go down without getting the unhook?
The point is against an insta down killer one person will go down guaranteed when unhooking, whereas against stbfl you can avoid that by taking hits, however in both cases you probably need more than a single survivor.
Did you even read properly what I wrote or how did you jump to that conclusion that I would have said it is equivalent to insta down?
STBFL is currently only "counter" against endurance. It's not really a surprise to see more of it, because there is more endurance effects.
And if the doors are not close?
If you're going to put a modifier to make 8 stack stbfl camping weaker then I can do the same.
If the survivor is hooked in basement or anywhere not close to a door it guarantees trading and eventually a free kill or more.
The perk currently does not align with current perk design and will eventually receive a nerf. You can count on that.
I don't think it needs any nerfs aside from an endgame nerf.
We can't nerf FTP+Buckle Up for whatever reason, but STBFL (one of the few things that can counter FTP+BU sometimes) has to go!
Really makes you wonder.
So, if I got this correctly, STBFL is a problem because all those killers that get less benefit from it are using it in mass, apparently...
Sounds about right. Nerf it.
After reading the comments, it feels like some people think that if the Survivors managed to repair all gens, they deserve a 4 man out too although they don’t say it.
If played poorly, the Killer can easily snowball with 1-2 people going down in order to bodyblock or rescue a Survivor solely because of STBFL. I have comeback from a match solely because I had stbfl and 2 Survivors dive bombed a hooked Survivor.
To some people, they probably think this is unfair because they spent all the time doing gens and looping the Killer the whole game and end up failing to escape because of one perk and altruistic plays. Clearly no one would fault themselves for Altruistic plays so the perk gets the blame.
I wouldn’t be surprised if people also dislike the perk because it has the same potential as No One Escapes Death but can be used throughout the match.
Nope, that's where you wrong, if the doors are not close you made massive distance the killer cannot go back to hook, so you are now closer to the gate and can hopefully reset and go again....not go back in the sense of he cannot carry you back all the way before you wiggle. It is still not the same to an instant down, something can be done here, it is just not necessarily in 1 go if you are on the opposite side of the map.
More endurance effects? Interesting
If a perk makes you go from an obvious loss to a win that easily, maybe it's time to address it and nerf it. No perk should carry anyone, remember? That works for killers as well:)
The tides can always turn. If you let you winning game turn into a loss, then you got outplayed.
The perk encourages strategy and cuts distance gain and is only super good on a couple of killers. The strategy to counter it is to have the obsession take hits, even if the obsession has to eat an m2 to do so; that still means more distance for the person they body blocked for. The killer to even get value from it has to win chases and get hits to build it up.
Ah yes by any means, meaning you can't run it on Nemesis, trapper, or plague anymore since the obsession will purposefully injure themselves so you lose stacks, even if you don't hit them
Otz has been really into the Comp Scene thanks to some of his friends like Hens. Otz basically believes if the survivors can't know a killer has a perk ahead of time, it's unhealthy. Ultimately, DBD is not that serious of a game despite the comp scene and perks like Coup are fine, because it's fine for the killer to have a surprise factor when they are facing 4 survivors.
Otz has been complaining quite a bit about random perks when I watch him (largely just for PTBs while I'm at work). Anything that remotely speeds up either side is being called unhealthy, because anything that remotely changes the standard 4.6m/s vs 4.0m/s movement interactions is bad and unhealthy since they can be hard to tell when they are in play. He doesn't like effects that can be impactful, but hard to tell at a glance.
I largely don't agree with his take although I do agree that MFT was unhealthy, because it was always online. But I don't think the concept of having conditional haste is really that unhealthy for the game.
How is it interesting?
Buckle up + For the people is quite popular combination.
STBFL is great way how to deal with it. I mean, I will be more than happy to get more stacks.
STBFL needs to nerfed to the ground. I can't believe that these people actually defending a broken perk while they're whining about every survivor perk in game.
Then give a good reason, perk is fine.
"Perk is fine" I would also enjoy the m1 spams if I was a killer main too.
Then give me a reason against... I m up for a debate, but give me something to work with, also nice try dude but I play more survivor these days...
Yes, playing survivor from the worst MMR possible, since you are aware of most of things. A reason? So spamming m1 with easily collectable stacks isn't a reason?
Well not that you would know how good or bad I play, but sure if you want to keep going with those childish insults, go for it Kiddo, only makes you look more ridiculous.
Sooo you have a condition in the ability, a way to lose the stacks again... You didn't even go into detail if or why the effect it grants is too much, your Argumentation ability is even weaker than your insults. I will help you out a bit... Soooo if you want to give a reason for a perk being too strong then you need to either state why it's effect is too strong regardless of any condition given, why it is too strong compared to how easy it is too aquire currently or maybe explain why it might be neither but still unhealthy for the game... Nonetheless you need to express why the perks effect is too strong, just saying it would be easy to aquire is not enough. Wanna try again?
I think you misunderstood me. Why do you think I'm instulting you? I'm basically saying that at the low MMR of the game killers are not using meta perks/builds, so the chance of getting the killer that abusing those perks is %10 at the low MMR, I assumed you that you are playing on the Low MMR, didn't insulted you. STBFL is broken, you are also know this either, I already told you the reason, and I think I'm saying it for the fourth time. "Ridiciliously fast M1 hits and easily collectable stacks." Don't be a drama queen, I'm not looking for a fight on this forum. Insulting someone based on their gameplay skills/rank is a thing of 2017 and 2018, and it's a childish behavior.
"Playing from the worst mmr possible" seems like a fairly obvious insult my man. First of all, there is not really a low mmr, or high mmr or a functioning matchmaking system most of the time. Second you don't know what mmr I play at, neither are you able to ever know that. But apparently you didn't take into account that stbfl is not really meta on a whole lot of killers that get most commonly played: Wesker, Nemesis, Legion, Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Huntress and some more usually don't really run it, but apparently it is closer for you to assume I play so bad I never encounter people with proper builds? Besides that why would you even assume I don't ecounter people running Stbfl? The perk has been in the game for years and there has not been much of an issue with it ever, the change to base attack time of killers didn't make it much stronger and since you can loose the stacks again I don't see an issue with the perks, also how is it easy to collect? You need to be lucky to not encounter the obsession, for the obsession not to take hits and if you are playing something else than a basic m1 killer you need to be able to get hits constantly without using your power, which already puts you at a disadvantage, because you take longer to get the m1 than getting the hit with your power.
On the other hand if you play it on basic m1 killer you are playing a character out of the weaker half of killers, so why exactly do you want to nerf the perk in that case? Stbfl is a good example for helping weak killers and not giving full values for strong ones.