What is the official balance for killers against players using external apps for comms ?
It is obvious cheating . Did devs give killers something to balance this ? Or should killers be able to use external apps as well to counter this ? Its absolutely fair.
Devs may not know if swf is using chat but nevertheless there should be something to counter this for killers. Some basekit buff that depends on how many players are grouped regardless if they use chat or not. If swf group is not using chat (very rare) they should be fine with killer buffs as nobody is stopping them to use the voice chat in the first place. I mean imagine being carried by the killer and you shout to a person on the other side of the map , the killer will obviously hear you.
Either buffs against groups or at least disclose what external apps killers are allowed to use too.
Comments
Okay this may sound weird coming from me. Only because yeah facing Swfs can be challenging sometimes. But at the end of the day like everyone else says Dead By Daylight’s main purpose was to be a party game. Meaning the point of it was for a group of people to just have fun and talk to each other. And nothing more. For which most friend groups still do today. I know I’m basically repeating what everyone has said. But anyway everyone should be able to talk to their friends through any type of communication they can use.
Yes cheating in the game is wrong and not okay to do. Since it ruin everyone’s fun and game. So anyway my point is talking to your friends through say discord or any or other communication apps is not cheating. All the app’s main purpose is for just having a chill time while talking to your friends.
I've literally repeated an answer to this kind of statement like 5 times on this post already.
Whether they allow it or not is irrelevant to the definition of cheating. The only issue of them allowing it or not is whether or not someone gets punished for said "cheating", but it is in fact by definition, cheating.
The way you are using the word cheating is not following its objective definition and using your own.
It is. That is what "unfair" means in this context. You do not get to decide what is fair and unfair. That is BHVR's responsibility and not ours. If it's not against the rules, then it's not unfair. And considering that BHVR do openly support playing in a SWF and use it as a marketing strategy, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume they allow it.
Defining cheating by using the term dishonest is not appropriate for DBD. Even mindgames and hiding certain perks and addons are technically dishonest.
"It is. That is what "unfair" means in this context. You do not get to decide what is fair and unfair."
No, I am not determining the definition of unfair either. I am using unfair per its actual definition.
"If it's not against the rules, then it's not unfair."
Wrong. That's not the definition of unfair.
"Defining cheating by using the term dishonest is not appropriate for DBD."
And I wasn't using dishonest in my definition. I was using unfair.
Unfair: not following the rules of a game or sport. This is the definition by Google.
I rest my case.
How dare you cheat while doing the dishes. You have been permanently banned from your kitchen and may not contact support about the issue.
Wouldn't matter if they did reach out to support, they couldn't remove that ban anyways. 😉😂
It's not a balance issue. It's not going to happen. This is a take literally every killer player has when they reach the 300-1000 hour mark. Then they eventually get better and realize SWF doesn't really matter if you're playing well on killer. Low-mid to mid MMR is the roughest time for a killer. You don't know what you don't know yet.
Unfair: not based on or behaving according to the principles of equality and justice
Google definition. I guess the case is still open.
Still calling Discord cheating in 2023? ...
So anyone who runs Alc Ring is cheating.
Anyone who runs Nurse is cheating.
Anyone who runs meta addons is cheating.
Anyone who plays against Solos is cheating.
Anyone who plays against inexperienced players is cheating.
That definition doesn't do anyone any favors.
They will say no because those are features of the game. Communication via 3rd party programs or devices (like cell phones) is not.
"That definition doesn't do anyone any favors."
I'm not implying or saying it's a good definition as it's obviously quite broad nor am I putting any animosity towards swf or think it should be punished/nerfed. I'm not speaking towards any of OP's points. All I have said is that by definition it would be considered cheating and that most people misuse the word. I don't think the official definition is a very good one either, as you have mentioned, just pointing out that it is what it is.
Well said. Unfortunately, this is a problem with the majority of the player base right now. In my God, honest opinion it’s been slowly making this game worse for quite some time. Everybody is a sweat Lord now. Nothing but tunneling camping and gen rushing these days.
It’s not even the fact that’s comms is insanely broken it’s when four strong loopers pair up and abuse the broken maps the killer just can’t get downs quick enough
Which has nothing to do with Comms.
It isn't cheating. That's the official stance from bhvr. Buffs against groups wouldn't work, as those buffs would have to be limited to informational perks only.
The game not being balanced around SWF does not make playing and communicating with friends cheating, nor does it make it an unfair advantage.
BHVR makes and decides the rules, not the player base. The game was developed with SWF in mind, and it is expected that those players will use external applications to communicate with each other. Thus it is not cheating.
That's a contextual definiton relating to law.
I ain't even gonna wallow in the semantics on this one.
Whether the devs allow it or not in the rules is irrelevant to the definition of cheating. Whether devs allow it or not simply determines whether an action is punishable or not. I've already said this to the last 5 people. I understand that many people tend to use the word "cheating" incorrectly on average but that does not change its definition.
And no, that definition is not solely contextual in the case of law.
Yes it is. Also, once again, neither the player base nor google defines the rules of the game. It is not a matter of whether or not it is "allowed", but a matter of definition. By definition, playing with friends and communicating with them is not only not cheating, nor unfair, but is officially endorsed by BHVR and falls within the confines of the rules of the game.
If something doesn't break the established rules of the game, it isn't cheating. The definition of cheating requires context, and cannot be used in the broadest sense of the word. To cheat is to break an established set of rules. Rules which you agreed to abide by.
You literally googled it in a law definition to reference, that is not the same thing. Just because it can be used in law does not make it solely for law.
"Yes it is. Also, once again, neither the player base nor google defines the rules of the game."
That does not negate my aforementioned point. BHVR defines their rules, that does not change the definition of cheating though.
"By definition, playing with friends and communicating with them is not only not cheating, nor unfair"
Incorrect. The game is not balanced for swf, that makes it unfair.
"If something doesn't break the established rules of the game, it isn't cheating."
Incorrect. "Breaking the Rules" is not the sole establisher for "cheating". That is misunderstanding its definition.
"To cheat is to break an established set of rules."
Wrong. It can be used in that sense, but is not the sole decider.
You are not using the word "cheating" by its correct definition.
Whatever it is labeled as , it is still an advantage that originates from outside the game's source code. The amount of info comms can give to survivors can make or break strategies. Not to mention constant live broadcast of every move the killer is making. This can impact certain killers quite a lot. If one survivors see you do something , all of them instantly know it across the whole map , yet they are not supposed to know.
Unless devs throw in a lore entry on how survivors can telepathically communicate in the trials , it is an outside-the-game advantage.
Slightly different wording, but the context is the same. Principles of Equality and Justice are the foundations for the legal system.
You're trying to define SWF as being unfair because the game isn't balanced around it. The game isn't balanced around tunneling, camping or slugging either, does that mean those are unfair? While we're at it, the game isn't balanced around looping either. Guess that's unfair too. The maps aren't balanced either, so I guess at this point the entire game should just be deleted because it just isn't fair.
Under the broadest definition, everything could be defined as unfair. The reality is that not everything is fair, equitable and just. We do not live in a perfect world, and videogames are not perfect products either. You're twisting the contextual definition of words to suit your narrative because you don't like SWF.
Even the most experienced players have said the strength of SWF is reliable teammates and not comms. The constant live broadcast of every move the killer is making simply does not happen as often as you think it does.
Team Eternal makes clock callouts look easy, but they're all on the same page and all of a similar skill level. To get to that point, there's so much stuff that has to be established prior to a match. It works because they play as a 4-man squad, but it simply does not work when you have an information gap.
The lore is for flavor and not meant to be taken literally.
How about this: each game developer gets to make up their own dictionary for their games, using whatever they deem appropriate. Not us players, they do.
So the devs get to say what is by their definition cheating and what is not.
"Principles of Equality and Justice are the foundations for the legal system."
Them being foundations of the legal system does not negate my point.
"You're trying to define SWF as being unfair because the game isn't balanced around it. The game isn't balanced around tunneling, camping or slugging either, does that mean those are unfair? While we're at it, the game isn't balanced around looping either. Guess that's unfair too. The maps aren't balanced either, so I guess at this point the entire game should just be deleted because it just isn't fair."
I never said it was a "good" definition. It's actually extremely vague and broad, just as you've pointed out here and I agree. So yes, while the definition can seem a bit silly since it would potentially include all those examples you provided, per definition, you could technically include those things.
Like I said, I'm not arguing that it makes sense or that it's good, I'm just saying that it is what it is. I agree calling those situations cheating sounds ridiculous, but I'm not the one making the definitions.
"Under the broadest definition, everything could be defined as unfair."
I wouldn't go quite that far, but yes, you could make an argument that many things could be deemed unfair or cheating based on how vague the definition is. The official definition if we were trying to make it more accurate should be less vague or broad, but unfortunately we don't get to decide that.
"The reality is that not everything is fair, equitable and just."
Correct. That's life.
"You're twisting the contextual definition of words to suit your narrative because you don't like SWF."
No, that's not correct. You are "assuming" my opinions. I like swf and have no issue with it actually.
I've said it multiple times already on this post that I have not been giving any opinions of swf at all. All I have stated is that swf is by definition (however vague or broad that may be) cheating and that people tend to misuse the words definition. That is all I have said OR implied.
I have no hidden motive behind my statements here as you are feeling I do.
Let's say also playing on computer is cheating then you have unfair advantage over console players which is definetely as large than advantage 4 man swf gives on comms. Most killer tech can't be done or are very difficult to do on console. Nurse flicks, oni 180s etc. Aiming is more difficult. Survivor 360s can't be done like on pc as well.
For the other thing I did bit of digging and this what they actually said. I don't remember if there was another thread but they aren't either just balancing for the lowest skill level players.
Closing this here as the discussion is simply going around in circles.
It has been stated multiple times: using communication tools is neither cheating nor it is against the rules. It is also stated in the Game Rules under the category of Other Hacks: We are not banning for the use of communication apps.