Endgame is broken
Once the last gen pops you lose. Killer is completely helpless in endgame without a NWO or NOED. I get that endgame being survivor sided is a reward for finishing the gens but thats another thing, they only even finished the gens because I actively chose to play fairly and not tunnel. I'm being punished for playing nice.
If you are playing fair on all but 2 killers in the whole roster, survivors equal to you in skill are making it to endgame with at least 3 alive. Meaning thats 2 survivors to take protection hits and bodyblock you, 2 survivors to go 99 both gates, etc etc. im not gonna get into details.
Essentially what im getting at is that endgame is just a loss for the killer. Which is stupid because playing fair will always get you to endgame against good survivors. Its completely unfair for endgame to be this unfair to killer, to the point that things like protection hits have 0 risk involved once it begins. In fact, NOTHING has any risk in endgame!
- Unhooked survivors have basekit BT, meaning if the gates within 44m they escape. Moreover, if theres a pallet within 44m then they will very easily be able to get distance from that to the gate. Combine this with the inevitable protection hits and that survivor is guaranteed to escape.
- Any strategy you use in endgame is void. Camping? 2 survivors rushing the hook guarantees they get free, unless their incredibly dumb. Which loops around to the first bullet. Tunneling? You arent gonna be able to start and finish a chase without them making enough distance to the gates to escape on almost every single killer. Then coordinated teams will be taking hits constantly since those have 0 risk anymore.
- Protection hits become a ggez. Normally the counter to protection hits is just to hit them. The downside being they are now more vulnerable and give great slowdown for later. its a risky tradeoff you take to help your buddy out. But not in endgame! Simple spend the measly 20s to 99 the gate then rush over to take as many hits as possible. They are not going down before they reach the gate. One hit guarantees 25s of distance before they can m1. Granted thats a 4.6 m1 based calculation, but it holds true. Not every single killer can use their power on every single loop. Even wesker can easily be dodged by just running behind stuff at long range. and since 25/4 is 100... if their healthy at the start of the chase then if the gates within 100m they escape. Throw in protection hits and adrenalines and MFT+hopes and its just unwinnable
- MFT HOPE. THIS COMBO IS JUST NOT FAIR. Nobody with these two perks is dying in endgame. Sure with other survivors there was a chance at the very least, you could severely outplay and get an early down etc. MFT hope just guarantees that if you are alive when the gens pop, you are escaping. Adrenaline shares this issue a tiny bit... but adrenaline pops once and thats it. a big chase extender, even better if you are injured etc. But thats it, the effects over. MFT hope guarantees you just win the entire game in endgame. As if MFT didnt do enough of that.
Theres a reason killers love NWO and NOED so much. They are the only things making it possible to comeback in endgame. Any hook you get in endgame thats not a kill is worthless. If theres 2 others they all escape. If theres one, you get your 3k by camping etc. But even thats only IF you can catch them. Horrendous map RNG, mft hope, protection hits, 99ed gates, basekit bt and many more make doing just that extremely difficult.
Why do survivors get hatch and 4% for clutch mechanics when their being stomped but killers have nothing? Thats not rhetorical its actually kind of confusing. Pretty much everything about killer falls apart in endgame. Pressure? useless. Hooks? near pointless unless you already have a 2k. Chasing? near impossible thanks to a certain combo. etc etc the list goes on. the game breaks down in endgame.
Comments
Considering you typically lose 2-3 gens in the first chase and everyone always says: "As the game goes on killer is stronger" yeah i'd like to see something happen there.
I'm not expecting chases to finish in 20 seconds. That'd be unrealistic. The person I quoted made the dubious claim to have their chases last less than 20 seconds and survivors still manage to finish all the gens.
As for Hatch, the killer can indeed create a hostage situation by refusing to allow the survivor to do gens, refusing to hook them and refusing to let them bleed out. It'd be boring for both sides, so it's unlikely to ever actually happen, but that's apparently why hatch needs to exist.
On topic I think BT should be disabled in EGC but hooktimers get paused or extended for longer once the gates are open so the emphasis is on going for hook saves and pulling off a proper save and its a risk-reward deal for both sides instead of swarming the hook or facecamping to kill.
You realize you're blatantly wrong. Jolt damages generators for you. Pain Res damages the generator with the most progress. Call of Brine causes generators to regress faster and notifies you when survivors hit a good skill check on that gen. There are more perks that I could list, but I'll just stick to those.
It's not like killer perks are any more earned than survivor perks are.
CoB is garbage though its like a 6 second difference in regression.
And if we were discussing the difference in strength between perks, your point would be valid. You aren't wrong about that, though.
There's a difference between saying "I think CoB should have its nerf reverted because it's too weak now" and "Survivor has all these crutch perks that don't have to be earned while killer has none and has to earn their perks".
fair enough I misunderstood the point of your comment. i thought you were saying something closer to "killer also has very strong unearned perks" rather than just them being unearned.
Endgame is just there to give a final chance before you lose as Killer. In my eyes, the Survivors popping all the gens have already won if I haven't gotten even a single kill by then. If I have gotten a kill, then I can easily slug one and snowball a 2nd down into a minimum 3k, assuming I have any skill.
If the Survivors equal you in skill win if you play 'fair' - Then it sounds like as long as Killer is better they win, and Survivors are better they win. Arguably if someone ever didn't 'play fair', then they previously artificially inflated their MMR to Survivors outside their skill instead. That means that person needs to lose sufficient matches to the point they actually face Survivors of their 'played fair' skill level, instead of the 'unfair' inflated MMR level. With the MMR designed to keep you in 'top-MMR' once reached, it would cause a facecamping Bubba to reach 'top-MMR', then never leave, and lose far more matches than they won (over time). (Also 'top-MMR' is roughly the top 25% of the playerbase, so huge skill variance, as I think that is equivalent to Gold and above in League of Legends. Imagine the best Gold player against the worst Challenger player. Anyone complaining, if Gold equivalent, is fair to complain when going against Challenger or even Diamond equivalent players.)
Camping/Tunneling not working - So let me get this straight, the low skill high reward strategies are now yielding low rewards to match? Weird, that's almost like how risk/reward ratios should be normally.
Hatch/4% - Maybe because the kill rates are designed around an average of 60%, which means Killers win more than they lose. Survivors need these mechanics that don't even count towards a win MMR-wise, just to help deflate the kill stats. More accurately though, if you know you have 0 chance of surviving, it would cause you hide for even longer. You would tap a gen and hide, hoping you can make more progress than the Killer can remove. It ends matches for Killer that would otherwise be artificially drawn out. This is a favor for Killers, as the game, once long won before, will actually end. Also if you legit think a 4% kobe is causing more wins for Survivors than losses, I don't think you understand math. With 3 kobe attempts (even if we add them to get a slightly higher number for Survivor, technically you multiply it .96^3) you get 12% off hook. That means 88% of the time, the Killer got a free hook state, and the time on hook is ticking against their final hook state.
While true, I'd expand it to ALL players. The second anything is slightly X-favored, we get posts about it.
jolt requres you to down someone and isn't free pain res requries a one of 4 hooks on that map that you might not even get it isn't free call of brine is a poor example because it's dead
In order to damage a generator with no perks, you actually need to walk up to the generator and kick it. Jolt is removing that step by damaging generators within a 32 metre radius upon downing a survivor, making it unearned. Pain Res is also unearned, seeing as you only need to hook a survivor on a scourge hook. You'd be hooking them anyway. CoB, regardless of its strength, is also providing unearned information and additional regression.
You're being biased and it shows. Both sides have perks that are relatively risk-free and unearned. Come up with an actual valid complaint instead of this biased nonsense.
But why are you allowing the players to rank up together to get those protection hits.
When playing killer who's in control of the chase? Are you directing survivors by baiting and moving them to where you want them or are or you just following them?
MFT + Hope is a really problem, speed bonuses shouldn't stack, you should just get the greater of the two and let that be the end of it. This includes killer speed boosts too.
The entire point of EGC is to bring the trial to an end once the gates are opened. It isn't supposed to favor one role or the other necessarily, just prevent the stalemates that were prevalent in the past.
That said, if there's a surv on the hook and at least two other survs alive during endgame, expect some teamwork efforts to get that rescue. The game provides the tools for dealing with most situations, and rng always plays an element, however it isn't supposed to be easy with that many survs still alive.
I think that the upcoming nerf to BNPs and Prove Thyself is going to help the killer, because the endgame won't happen as soon anymore.
Why do survivors get hatch and 4% for clutch mechanics when their being stomped but killers have nothing?
Because the killer is responsible for their own gameplay and the survivors aren't responsible for the gameplay of their three teammates.
The survivors do deserve to have some chance at winning. If they do all five gens and play their cards right in the end-game, they do deserve to win. There is a point where you will have to accept that you were bested. You can't keep pushing it further, because you're still going to lose the matches you're losing now if the endgame was 'made more fair', and then what are you going to do? Demand that you can kill survivors after they leave the trial?
Stumbled across this and was reminded of this thread. The very first hook was gotten just as the last gen was finished, and he managed to pull out a 4k, lol.
As a new player,
End game just makes me want to DC to save me the trouble.
They have body blocks, endurance from hook and soon, I read we won't even be able to try to pressure by picking them up if they unhook.
Just what are we suposed to do??
I see anywhere to 2-3 gens on average pop for 1 chase that takes less than a minute... I keep getting paired with 100 Prestige survivors when the bonus BP for killers hit 100% and I am honestly done trying to learn.
Playing this game as killer feels like you are MEANT to lose EVERY games.