Eruption is overtuned
This perk is the bane of solo-q survivors you are incapacitated for 25secs and the perk itself has a 30 second cooldown. Also you can proc it by downing someone by any means. The cool down is so short that by the time you down someone hook them and get to a gen it’s ready for to go.
i feel the cooldown needs to be longer or the incapacitated needs to be shorter
And even as killer this perk has won me games that I should not have because I held a 3 gen with eruption and SH:Pain Res as my only slow downs
and those games can go on for long time especially if the survivors have Boon:Circle Of Healing
Comments
What relevance has your issue with dead hard got to do with this?
Survivors have a couple of resources, all of which can be negated using killer perks Bamboozle / Spirit Fury / Blood Favour etc etc.
Imagine if there was a killer that ignores every form of defense survivors have and can teleport large distance through objects.
Go cry about dead hard in your own thread.
The parallels to old DH are uncanny.
Allows players to get away with poor decision-making or mechanics? Check. Survivors could path poorly or mess up a loop and get a speed boost to the pallet. Killers can completely overcommit to a bad area of the map, mess up a chase, etc. and be saved by regression+Incapacitated.
Almost no way for the other side to play around it? Check.
And Eruption can proc on multiple gens. I genuinely can't fathom how this perk made it out of development and into patch 6.1. I normally give the devs a break when people say "do they play their own game?", but I have to ask in this instance.
Whataboutism
It is exactly the purpose of the skill. The 10% is almost irrelevant as you can chain up to 30% with Jolt
You need to commit kicking a generator, or you play with one perk less. It is balanced
It isn't.
You put in the bare minimum of effort and get far too much of a reward.
Eruption has always been bad design, even its original version. It just wasn’t strong enough before for players to complain because it wasn’t commonly used.
Now it’s meta and it’s miserable.
I like eruption and jolt. Fun combo. I like eruption before it was buffed but I don’t feel like I’ve had many issues on the survivor side. I believe the closest issue I’ve had was with a Doc using impossible skill check mess and eruption. It was a long long game.
The only counterplay to Eruption is to either be in a SWF who are in constant communication and even then that's not always enough or you need to be psychic to know the instant when someone's about to go down
Even if I know the Killer has eruption and I'm trying to get a gen done that has it, there's nothing I can do to avoid the incapacitated penalty unless I'm one of the two things I listed above. Eruptions cooldown is also so minimal that by the time the penalty has wore off, the killer's already hooked who they downed and can come back and apply it again
Also kicking generators isn't hard whatsoever, we're in the gen kicking meta right now where perks like call of brine reign supreme
Exactly, and I 100% agree with those parallels. That's why I felt the urge to dispute the conclusion and the playing it down. It DOES carry as much as old dh
My thought was a buffer between down and explosion that might allow an alert solo queue to get off in time. Something equivalent to the span of time you see a Survivor's aura as the killer hooks them.
1 killer perk should be as strong/stronger 1x4 survivor perks.
Compare to surv meta: ex. Dead Hard.
How is 1 Eruption stronger than 4 Dead Hard ? It is not.
-> It is balanced.
Incapacitated 3 times x trial for a total of 75 seconds (around the max you get in worst scenarios) is not a huge deal. Just rotate the hooks.
It IS a strong perk for a killer, one of the best gen regressing/control perk. But it can be said the same about many surv perks. None should be nerfed. Gens are literally flying :)
1. Hook progression: Already exists Reassurance/Kinship.
2. Blocking hooks: Already exists Saboteur/Breakdown/Toolbox
Eruption is just another perk that is not as good againts swf,but godlike againts soloq.
Not really sure what your arguement is here
That it IS a perk to make you incapacitated. You are disliking the effect. That's all. Every debuff/nerf to this perk would take away its use. A 15/20 seconds incapacitate would be irrelevant. No one would use it.
25 seconds of incapacitated is annoying/strong this perk is. And it has an attivation condition with prior commitment which is not irrelevant, for the time it takes away from chases.
Gens aren't going very fast in my games. Might just be you
You have an interesting idea of balance.
The 1 killer perk needs to equal 4 survivor perks does not make any sense. It is not as killers and survivors share the same objective so you need to balance this around their perks.
how can you even measure the needed effect of 1 killer perk where the objectives are so different from one another.
it's not like a killer takes 90sec to hook one surv
Eruption has been a stupid perk since it's inception because prior to 6.1.0 the values were so low it was literally not worth running compared to other perks. On top of that SWF completely neuters it. It was almost never run and considered pretty trash tier as a result. With 6.1.0 putting an obnoxious 25 second action prevention on it, it is now good but the core of the perk is still the same. It's hard countered by swf and now has the unfortunate side effect of really being brutal vs solo queue.
There have been several good ideas floated in here but realistically the incapacitate effect should be halved/swapped for something else and the swf counter should also go away. It's just a dumb perk and slapping an overpowered effect onto it makes it good sure but it's still a dumb perk at it's core.
i find it pretty weird that people are defending eruption because its far from ok in its current buffed form. Its only counterplay is to be in a 4 man on a call so you can call out to eachother when you're going down. If you're not doing that, congratulations, you are now unable to do anything but run around for 25 seconds because you tried to finish a generator.
The killer keeps kicking your gen? lets go do a different gen. He can kick that one over and over instead. That one you left regressing? at 0% it still has Eruption stuck on it for later if anyone ever touches it again (same with overcharge in that regard)
Killers with Eruption right now abandon a chase with you to kick a generator in the middle of it. They'll kick as many as they can before they down someone because for some reason the perk doesn't have any negatives like the amount of gens it can be applied to at once or a cooldown of it being applied for X amount of seconds before disappearing again. There are people out there that run Eruption and Call of Brine and just pick a 3 gen the moment they spawn in to sit at for the next 30 minutes until everyone dies or gets bored and lets the killer sacrifice them.
buffing the regression was fine, buffing the incapacitated from 16 to 25 was idiotic.
Eeeeeexactly. There's no timeout on the kicks, and there's no limit to how many gens it can proc at once. Anything a killer loses by kicking each gen is made up for by the regression on the proc+plus the inevitable CoB/Overcharge/Pain Res. You can tell which users don't really play survivor here. They'll tell you to just "do the gens that haven't been kicked". Granted, I hadn't considered just not doing gens at all. I might give that a shot.
Hey you know what is really overpowered,three boons, resurgence, reassurance, Jill's land mine, having to deal with 4 people running adrenaline,3 people running deadhead,no seriously I've had these type of games. But yeah Eruption is totally the problem.
I would disagree the point of the perk is to slowdown the game and regress generators. Would it be that much weaker, if it just blocked those gens for 20/30/40 seconds
Some would argue the biggest advantage it has is, while the survivor is Incapacitated they cant tap the gen and it regresses which wouldnt happen if the gen was blocked.
The best example of this effect would be tier 3 madness of the doctor which requires 12 seconds of survivor action to remove.
Now while I think blocking the gens would be plenty powerful since it can appply to multiple gens some will disagree. There are a couple other ways to go that would be more interactive to survivors which is the biggest issue with it not that its too strong.
You could make it just like tier 3 madness that requires maybe 16 seconds of uninterrupted player input to get rid of it. While adding 2% regression to the base effect to compensate for the reduced time of the status effect, which can actually be longer if you chase the survivor.
Or have it be a unique effect called Broken Fingers that only prevents working on gens and using items for that time but also causes survivors to reveal their location if they complete an action like a heal/totem or if no action is completed the next time they touch a gen they scream giving it extra tracking utility and letting you know exactly where you can reapply the effect.
The point is there are ways to go other than completely disengaging the player to the point that the only action they can do is basically hide in a locker, and the incapacitated effect is not too strong, but just plain boring.
Well that’s like saying people shouldn’t have whined about circle of healing because it was meant to heal survivors when it was at 100% but everyone knew that it was it was a problem
I think that this would be a very reasonable nerf. Its this "being removed from the game entirely for 25s" that feels somewhat out of place. When I run eruption I always feel elated when it goes off, because quite a few times you either take too long to down someone and a previously kicked gen gets finished or no one is at the gen when you kick it. A successful Eruption gives you some breathing room and allows you to ignore that gen for a short while, but honestsly if that survivors healed up in the mean time or booned something I wouldn't mind. To me the 25s safety net for the gen feels more important and I would appreciate a gen-only incapacitate like effect instead of just lowering it so something like 15s.
Honestly I feel like incapacitated shouldn't be put on any perks besides maybe hexes.
Indeed. In general a killer perk should trump an equivalent surivor perk, because of the 4v1 nature, but besides that its not an exact science. I bet that most killer perks would be grossly "underpowered" if you applied this metric, so this shows that its bogus.
Let me guess, you never played as a killer. Of course, killer perks need to be MUCH stronger than survivor ones. How would a killer even menage to get 4 people if you were to consider 1:1
I agree the ratio cannot always be a consistent 4:1 but this is way some perks are ''HEX''.
Example : Devour Hope. Devour Hope is insanely oppressive and it will generate much more value than 4x Dead Hard.
So it is bound to an action, which, if performed cancels it (the totem).
This are the conditions of activation.
Eruption has its condition which is ''kicking a generator''.
You can commit to kick a generator and the generator been done before anyone is downed, resulting in 0 value. It is a gamble.
It doesn't work ''passively''. Like aura reading ones.
Yes it DOES feel oppressive and strong, when it works. But when and how many does it work ? 2-3 times x trial
GENS FLY. If they don't, you are playing bad. 4 people in the trial, every 2 minute is an easy 2 gen done. Some times you can do 2 generator before the killer can spot you by simply bringing 1 offering and 4 items. Not even builds about that. A good team should do 5 gens between 5 and 9 minute. That's why perks like Eruption exist.
It has counter-play. its called finishing generator and being successful at the chase. The perk requires the killer to kick a generator and it awards 10% regression and refunds their time spent walking+kicking a generator. Its like survivor want to go down in 30 seconds chases and still escape every trial.
your suggestion is similar to what i suggested on the perk which is AoE incapacitation so swf cannot rob the killer off their perk value. your not suppose to be able to avoid the incapacitation.
Oh yes, of course.
Let me guess, you never against a killer with eruption.
Now jokes aside, the effects of a killer perks have to, really needs to be balanced around their consistency and the time/effort you need to activate it.
As you say, Hex Devour hope gives you a massive advantage and is balanced around the fact than its consistency relies on people cleansing the totem.
If they find it quickly, you get little value.
If you get Backwater Swamp totem spawns, survs are f####.
Now take a look at eruption, this perk gives you the chance to blow a gen for 10% (probably, didnt check) of progress while applying 25sec of total shutdown of any actions.
This Is Strong. This. Is. Really. Strong.
Now consider the only requirement for this is to kick a gen, which is something that is normal to any game, more than ever since Brine/overcharge meta. As you also said, GENS FLY so as long as survs keeps repairing, you have less gens to kick, therefore survs are more likely to be in a 'kicked for you' gen, so its consistency rises up as long as time passes.
Now also consider that you cant prevent this effect unless you are in comms.
I well know Eruption. And as I said before the 10% is almost irrelevant. It becomes good as 2 or more gens are erupted. A 10% on 1 generator is nothing particular. Compared to scourge choices that are much more oppressive. And Jolt on some maps.
Yes it is about those 25 seconds incapacitated. But it's not a direct attack to you as a survivor. You are free to wait the person to get downed (easily done on the call), or rotate hooks.
No, kicking a generator is not a free thing. Everything takes time. And efficient teams don't camp gens to do them, no matter the progress. It is important to work on the "right" gens. Otherwise you end up on impossible 3 gens situations.
If you don't play with friends it is your choice. The less you cooperate and comunicate the more you deserve to loose. A 0 communication should be close to a 100% defeat. The game is balanced around the idea of 4 people squad winning by communicating. If being decent at looping and holding one button for 4 minutes was enough to win it would be totally unplayable as a killer. And a totally not enjoyable experience as well. You win when you create the conditions to win. You are not entitled to.
Eruption is a wonderful perk. It is strong. But it is not unbalanced. I expressed myself, the same, for many survivors perks. So, don't come to write here as I am some sort of killer fanatic. I play mostly as a survivor. (I really do)
######### everyone who plays anything but 4-man SWF ig?
The game cannot afford to have people play by themselves to escape consistently. It cannot be balanced like that. Because people communicating are a thing. And it would be too easy to win.
Survivors CAN escape. If they are good, they will. The 50-60% kill rate is based on the average. Solo Q is the other side of swf. It is right that the less you cooperate, the more you get **** :) no one forces you to play this game. And, fun and winning are too different things. You play by yourself you can focus on other things. When you want to play your cards properly you use your brain with other people. Killers are supposed to be scary.
I don't know how else to frame this. Eruption is causative, not symptomatic. Players are saying "do the right gens" and "don't 3 gen". Eruption is literally the reason those 3 gens happen in the first place when it's combined with other gen kick regressions. It's not symptomatic of survivors 3 gen'ing themselves.
The alternative to not working on the kicked gens is to 3 gen yourself. You either have to eat repeated Eruptions trying to break the 3 gen, or do every other gen and 3 gen yourself.
It's not reasonable for me to load in, kick every gen on repeat in a 4 gen with Eruption/CoB, and then say "why didn't you guys just break the gen cluster???"
Well, at least you're honest about not caring about balance.
Why don't survivors just spawn on hooks?
you could at least say something more constructive. I am just saying that eruption does have counter-play. The killer is possible to defeat.
I hope you realize that for every whining survivor main like you there is the same amount (in ratio, probably more) killers complaining its a "survivors sided game". To me, you people can spend all the day thinking this game is not balanced (and in search of its balance). When I play as a survivor I try to win and as a team we escape half the trials (at least). When I play as a killer I win most of the time (I would say more than 70%). I m not a particular good dbd player but I like to try to win when I play a game.
If it makes you happy complaining about every existing perk and developer choice :) see you in another post where you attack another in game mechanic. I prefer to support a positive vibe for "both sides".
You say like kicking a gen is a huge commitment of time lol. You usually kick gens after hooking a survivor and while patrolling gens, it's not that big of a deal and it gives you huge value when you eventually get a down with Eruption. Killers like Wesker and Blight can literally kick gens mid chase and not even lose distance.
It in unbalanced, and it is strong and meta because it is unbalanced.
You can't have a perk that punish you for not playing with friends. It is common sense. And the fact that you only need a gen kick for a perk that has no counterplay for like 60% of surv playerbase that does not play on comms is laughable.
Plus you have to consider that while you can argue that eruption cant stall and win the game for itself, killers have no restriction against how many regressing perks they can stack.
So the combination of this uncounterable, very strong incapacitating effect perk with the other regressing perks leads to the destruction and punishment soloQ teams.
Cool. Nerf Eruption then. New killer comes out. It's not particularly strong in chase. Enjoy being camped and tunneled even more all your trials ^^ Hope you guys enjoy the new meta ahah
Killers will always camp and tunnel when they need it.
At least they wont tunnel while proc'ing explosions across the map
Some people have this weird way idea where 3gens are a result exclusively of bad Survivors plays, they talk about 3gens in a way that makes it look like they really believe a Killer cant force them by patrolling the same clusters and commiting to chases only near said cluster, and as you very well said Call of Brine, Ecrutchion, Overcharge and DMS are ultra strong at forcing 3gens by the Killer.
Which makes me think they are the kind of Killers who commit to a chase to the end of the world not caring in the slightest about pallet clusters, gen positions, strength of loops or wathever "Oh hey, I got a super strong 3-4gen here sadly I MUST chase this Nea with ugly cosmetics to the exact opposite end of the map which also happens to have 4 linked pallet loops so the other 3 can break it right at the start of the game, pity I cant do anything about it..."
Hmmm, it is very very amusing to me that you think I main Survivor.
DBD Forums try not to accuse someone of being X main when you don't agree with them challenge. I will always call out mechanics, perks and other things that I view as problematic and detrimental to the game.
Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. There are things in the game that are imbalanced. The devs are not infallible. Just because it is in the game doesn't mean it is balanced. Players on either side should not have to play a game where the chances of 'winning' are stacked to one side.
You are not supporting a positive vibe for both sides, you are supporting keeping the status quo despite it needing to be fixed.
Do so. I have been playing games for 20 years and I have never judged or dramatized for nerfs and DEVELOPERS DECISIONS.
People who refuse to speak up and offer feedback are the reason we get games like OW2.
Likewise, if you're such a veteran, you should know better than to resort to tribalism for petty insults.
The perk has little impact on me due to the solo loadouts I use. The biggest hindrance I get from it is the teammates that continually fall victim to it. Worse yet is when they are on the gen with me and ignore my warnings to let go.
A major factor of its success (just my opinion) is that even after knowing the killer is using it, survivors will still recklessly allow chases to start and just shift w until downed without even attempting to break away.
Nemesis is a very famous 2022 released killer. It's not like Eruption has been peacefully used in the past years. I started to play the game this year and I cannot replicate a build I see on youtube because every time I tried to I experienced
- I farm for Ruin, Ruin gets nerfed to the ground
-I farm for Thana, boom, trash
Now you guys no lifing this game since ages have all your game history of why this and that had to change and so on. Me trying to have fun and not take this game like it is the most important thing of my life, every time I try something I get people complaining about it. Killers too strong... nerf this, nerf that. I just can't stand it :') can you let the developers do their thing
(Ruin and Thana nerfs are ''ok'', I adapt. What is not ok is the mentality of calling for nerfs)