Should Myers be able to mori when pulling survivors out of lockers??
Or if they’re in the dying state?? We all know that lockers are the only way to counter a tombstone Myers once he is able to mori. But also survivors probably should’ve done a better job by not allowing to him to juice up to tier 3. What do y’all think?
Comments
Regardless of why a survivor hides in a locker against a Tombstone Myers, Myers is not entitled to that achievement or any other specific action from that survivor. Meyers must earn the achievement through clever outplay.
Killers are in four games at once--each survivor's outcome counts as a separate win (or loss) for them. If a survivor hides in a locker to prevent a tombstone mori, then the killer should hook them and attempt the achievement with some other group of survivors. The game isn't "lost" for survivors until they've died. It's time you all retire the argument that one survivor left alive on the map equals game over for that survivor. There are a number of ways a killer could misplay even under those circumstances.
So you're saying that Myers should go through piles of iridescent addons looking for a game that a.) he can 4k and b.) where the survivors aren't sore losers, because the killer should respect that survivors don't want them to get an achievement they've even when they've utterly lost and have no hope of escape?
You realize just how busted this is, isn't it? The equivalent is that... say you have an achievement that requires you to escape through the gates in solo queue. So already it's not applicable in every game - survivors have a hard enough time escaping in the current lay of the game, and solo queue is a pretty big penalty. But while the killer can't prevent them from escaping, they always have the option to prevent the achievement by, say, swinging their weapon, even if that doesn't accomplish anything for them. You are saying they should also respect that the killer can just decide "nope, ######### you, try again next time" and prevent them from getting the achievement arbitrarily, which they will do because they're mad at them escaping. Because the survivor isn't 'entitled' to an achievement that they otherwise got, even though the killer earns no benefit from stopping them other than the malicious glee of knowing they ruined someone else's chances.
Achievements should never be subject to player spite, because player spite is damn near ubiquitous when it comes to losing games. That's just idiotic. It's terrible achievement design and it's terrible to think that's acceptable. This is more an issue with achievement design than it is with addon design (though tombstones are their own separate can of worms), but that doesn't mean it's defensible.
Also, no, there isn't really a way for the killer to misplay and 'lose' when it's just them standing in front of a locker the survivor has no intention of exiting. Which is the situation I've been discussing from the start, so I think you're the one who's been misunderstanding the argument. 🤷
Funny, just today I gave two survivors a shot at left Behind. But thanks for your non-existant empathy. You definitely aint one of the persons responsible for lessening the toxicity in this community. But thats whats expected.
No. If anything they need to nerf several of his addons and make them less oppressive.
What other counterplay do you suggest besides denying the cheevo?
That's not counterplay. If the killer is going for the achievement, and he gets close but the final survivor denies it, then all that survivor has done is made sure the killer will have to try again. That survivor is making sure to subject more future survivors to that unfun playstyle. That includes you, you'll be one of those future survivors being punished because some previous survivor was too salty get out of a locker.
Being the final survivor hiding in a locker for over fifteen minutes doing nothing or disconnecting to avoid the mori is a waste of everyone's time, it's not counterplay.
So...hide until your 3 friends speed run the 4 gens, 99 the fifth, have them die, finish gen, open exit gate, tada
Yeah I understand it's harder to achieve in soloQ, but at least you don't have someone waiting at locker to stall out the game to spite you
I mean sure it's not really counterplay, unless you can play locker games before everyone else gets mori'd and waste enough time to get gens done or scout hatch.
But that's aside from the point. This addon isnt exclusively available to people going for an achievement. If it behaved like a glyph it'd be a different story. Nobody said Myers can only do this once. People can run it anytime they want just to stomp. So survivors should just give in to killers and let them get their 4k fantasy out of their system til karmic balance is restored? Pretty flimsy justification for game health imo
I agree it's not fun for either side in the hypothetical case of achievement hunting, but that's not always the case
Except that doesn't check out. We're discussing hiding in a locker as the last survivor, right? Since we agree that there's nothing objectionable about hiding in lockers before the game has ended (and by extension, this should never be removed or tombstones wouldn't have any counterplay at all when they're already pretty poor game design)? If the Myers doesn't want the achievement and he's just taking a tombstone joyride, he won't care that you're in a locker; he'll take you out and slap you on a hook. Only a Myers that's going for the achievement is going to be stymied by this action. That's why locker stalling is specifically a spite move. The only thing it can ever accomplish is preventing an achievement.
I know tombstone games aren't remotely enjoyable, but I don't think it's wrong to have an issue with players taking action specifically to spite each other when it costs them more than doing nothing, or even that they have the power to do that at all. It's not a niche thing, either. It's really common to run into this when you go for Evil Incarnate, survivors that are fine with dying but refuse to let it be a mori. It wouldn't be a difficult achievement otherwise. And I think that's pretty sad, because all it does is push another tombstone game onto the next group when in all likelihood 0/5 players want to be playing this way.
A 60 Second Stun??? Are you kidding me?! 60 Seconds is waaaay to long, even if then only like 15 Seconds, the Killer has to be able to find the Survivor, so it's a little "Fight" but 60 Seconds is way too high, yes the Left Behind Archivement isn't that easy to get but still, let the Killers have a little Opportunity to fight it (if my Grammar was even correct)
The thing is, if you just want to live out your 4k fantasy, then you couldn't care less about that last survivor hiding in the locker: just pull them out and hook them. The 15min stand offs ONLY happen when a player want to get that achievment.
The only way?
Try to sit on a gen if he chases you.
Or valt a pallet or window.
These are all ways to make sure he can't mori you 😉
Many people forget about these.
Myers' addons are the only reason why he's a viable killer. His basekit is a lot more decent than some people will ever admit, but he's still an M1 killer with no map pressure.
As far as tombstone addons go, they're really just not very good. Judith's is flat-out worthless, and Piece is situational at best. The amount of stalk that it takes to activate it makes it difficult to justify using unless you're running a good stalk addon and a lot of slowdown. He does have some insanely good builds, but that's not one of them.
Yes. Just because that achievement is awful.
Maybe that would only apply to the last survivor, or else there's a 30-60 second timer that allows the survivor to be Mori'd on the ground or from inside of the locker, which would mean that camping a locker would still be a bad play in all situations except when you're going for the achievement. That way, survivors can't deny it if the killer really wants it, but they have counterplay since Myers is still going to lose if he spends all match staring at lockers instead of pressuring gens.
That achievement shouldn't be in the game in the first place. If you're achievement hunting which is pretty much the only way to get that one, you have to center your entire build and playstyle around getting your entire team killed so you can have a shot at it. And it's such a difficult achievement to get that you pretty much have to try for it if you want it.
I think they meant the Left for Dead achievement, not the hatch one, which is almost as hard to get as Evil Incarnate.
But you're still half-correct. It's not an easy achievement to get, but it doesn't just require contributing nothing; if you want it, your best bet is to actively sabotage your entire team. I don't know why that one is still in the game.
Only on the last living survivor. Pretty much zero reason not to.
Other than that, absolutely not.
The achievement needs to change, not the mechanics.
I would rather see it and the achievement changed entirely.
If not, at least modify it by only allowing a mori on a survivor who has no stalk juice left. If this route is taken maybe then you could allow a locker mori to happen.
Actually, never mind.
I decided to try for the Left for Dead achievement and got it after five games, and a couple of them were close. I actually nearly died at the exit gates, but Nurse was merciful.
Didn't have to intentionally kill all of my teammates, either. They do a great job of that all on their own.
Used Adrenaline/Wake Up/Sole Survivor/Fast Track and just tried to hit all good skill checks until the last gen, at which point I had 75% bonus speed and up to 27 stacks on Fast Track.
Myers shouldn't be able to mori people the way he can at all