How would you Nerf/Balance Nurse?
Me personally and nurse mains might hate me but I say:
1 way to nerf nurse is by making "Spasmodic Breath" basekit. For those who don't know Spasmodic breath makes Nurse 115/4.6 after a successful blink for 60 seconds, that's 1 minute that its a killer you can actually loop freely. I also think that this way they wouldn't have to even rework most of her addons range and recovery can be good for a real reason.
I feel nurse right now does not need her range and recovery addons. How about for her power making her 110 and only giving her 1 blink and a longer cooldown on that blink.
What would you do?
Comments
Nobody would play nurse anymore. Most nurse players are bad and can’t win, that’s why her winrate is the worst of all killers. Good nurses are rare.
With this change, nobody would try to learn her anymore. Compare this nerfed-nurse to blight and how easy he is to play. It’s night and day.
I don't know how exactly to do it, but hit her map pressure.
She undoubtedly has the strongest chase ability in the entire game, there is no reason why she also has such a strong map pressure ability.
The whole thing that made old Deathslinger such a well balanced Killer was, that his insane chase potential got balanced out by the fact that he heavily struggels to make his way around the map and defend his generators. Even though Survivors had very little chance against him in one on one chases, they overall had a fair chance to win the game against him because of this.
So if we can reduce Nurses map pressure to be weaker than average, I feel she would be in a bit of a similar spot to old Deathslinger, which would make her a lot more balanced overall.
I'm open to suggestions on this, but the easiest and most lazy way to do it would be to simply deactivate her power outside of chases at a increased base movementspeed to compensate.
I think she should have her own personal mechanic introduced that is similar to Billy's overheat mechanic (We are gonna call it fatigue) except everything that she does contributes to it. Upon hitting certain thresholds, she starts taking negatives to everything she does across the board, carry speed, pick up speed, break speeds, blind recovery speed, everything. She will need to throttle herself down to keep from getting to deep into fatigue that she becomes unless post chase.
The idea is that all survivor builds become viable against her. Boil Over, Unbreakable, Power Struggle, all Exhaustion perks, everything becomes more effective. I would even implement a permanent debuff that would apply for the rest of the trial if the player manages to fill the fatigue meter (the regular debuff will still dissipate normally). I think this would go well with her breathe aesthetician, as well as the lore she is screaming in pain whenever she blinks.
Give her a completely rework.
Blinks as special attacks and hard add-on nerfs.
Perma
Their 2 separate modes, but its not necessarily like Oni. Think of it more like old Doc where he could switch between the two easily. What I was going for wasn't explained too well and I plan on making an entire post on its own to go more into detail and iron out some things.
Also, yes, this would make her weaker. Believe it or not thats the point. There is no reason why a killer with such a strong power has basically no drawbacks. Nurse is unhealthy for the game, period.
Nurse is completely balanced outside of range/3 blink.
Both modes are literally garbage.
man you already read the post that supposedly irons things out and actually has more thought put into it?
you from the future?
Just make her add ons Freddy tier and I bet 90% of the complaints would stop and perhaps people would give Nurse players the respect they deserve.
Nerfing her basekit in any way is garbage, because her basekit is already balanced in the state it currently is in.
Yeah her basekit is balanced
but it sure ain't ######### fun to go against.
It is to me! Even after all these years, still the most fun killer to face in my opinion! Even the sweaty ones!
Yeah and I like Trickster, to play as and against
I know I'm in the minority and I'm not gonna pretend like I'm not
🤮!
Hmm not sure. Perhaps making it so her blink attacks aren't counted a basic attacks, so perks for basic attacks don't activate on a killer that can teleport through everything. I'd also say maybe removing the ability to teleport through floors, as this makes it easy on small 2 leveled maps to go around and 1 shotting survivors with starstruck for example, then the nurse would at least have to travel to stairs to travel up or down a floor like everyone else. I'd also get those range addons nerfed because they are insanely strong.
Okay? So what? Fun is subjective, and there will never ever be a versus where all players on all sides are having fun always. So it's irrelevant. You can't even objectively make something "more fun" because the standard itself is a whim of whoever you ask. So only balance is relevant. You even acknowledge the basekit is balanced. Range/3 blink need to get hard reworked to completely different effects.
Devs could make button "I win" and I am sure some people will find it entertaining. Is it good idea to have it in game? No? So is having nurse in current "balanced" state
Why are you even replying if you didn't read what I said? Fun is irrelevant to balance. Balance is the standard. An "I win" button is not balanced. So regardless of fun or unfun, it should be changed. Nurse is balanced. So regardless of fun or unfun, it should not be changed.
There are ppl that would call it balanced and no proof would be good for them. And if it is fun for those people, then "fun is subjective"
So then what was the Dead Hard rework? If fun is subjective it should of never of gotten touched right? Not every one had an issue with it and they were VERY clearly in the minority. Same can be said with Nurse.
And while you're right that you can't make something more fun because its different depending on who you ask, you can make something well designed and overall more healthy for the game. Which is exactly what the Dead Hard rework achieved, and is what needs to happen to Nurse
Old Dead Hard was literally uncounterable to most M1 killers when used for distance.
Nurse is well designed and balanced.
I think the game should get rid of %-variable addons. Just make every addon a meme or "mini-perk" instead of boosting charge speed, range, steering, cooldown or whatever. Give some (brown or yellow effects) of the lost max potential stats to the basekit of killers and rework all affected addons. Maybe excluse Nurse with the basekit compensation, just for the survivor community.
Wouldn't help Nurse because she'd still be the best and we can't have a "the best" killer in this community. The devs could nerf the current "the best" killer 10 times in a row and survivors would still moan that "the best" killer is too strong.
Nurse is literally uncounterable on any open map or ones with low LoS blockers, she also ignores all main defenses a Survivor has. On top of that she gets around the map pretty well because she can ignore what every other killer would normally have to walk around.
So tell me, what's so "well designed" about her?
Not ignoring Dead Hard btw, it wasn't well designed either and was more frustrating to deal with than unbalanced.
Regarding add-ons (not specifically Nurse, just in general):
So can you explain why good survivors manage to mindgame her in open area/against aura reading perks just fine against equally good Nurses?
what good Nurse is falling for "mindgames" in an open area? You can literally react to the Survivors movements
Uh, just to make this very clear. Even the best Nurse players in the entire world get mindgamed in the open and in areas with no or very negligible LOS breakers. Landing and avoiding blinks is both about prediction and out-reading the other player, regardless of the area.
I don't even consider myself a good Nurse player but there isn't a single Survivor out there that can mindgame me out in the open unless I'm playing for shits and giggles and try going for 360 blinks or some ######### like that. Yes Nurse is about predictions and reads but thats only when you add LoS breakers into the mix.
Now maybe if theres a considerable amount of distance between the 2, then yeah theres a read involved. But if you can make up most the distance with just 1 blink (which is 20m, not hard to pull of) , and a Survivor has literally nothing, then they're screwed. Plain and simple
You clearly play different game then everyone else. Nurse on open IS GUARANTEED hit - works also for mediocre/bad nurses (just not terrible nurses). Worst case she needs to use 2 blinks...
Copied from my WIP design changes document, formatting might be wonky.
Nurse currently starts to recover blink charges when the fatigue starts. I would propose she instead starts to recover after the fatigue is completed. The green recharge add-on would instead lose the 20%, and make Blink charge recovery work how it currently does, on fatigue start.
Another commonly quoted nerf would be making Blink attacks count as Special Attacks, instead of basic. This would be fair considering they nerfed Awakened Awareness almost exclusively due to Nurse being able to abuse this, especially when paired with Starstruck.
There are claims that Nurse would be worthless without basic attack blinks. To counter that I say Huntress thrown Hatchets, Demogorgon Shreds, Blight Rushes, Pig Charges, Oni Blood Fury uncharged M1s all work fine without being basic attacks. Plus she still has basic attacks if people attempt bodyblocking hooks when carrying survivors, when you have someone cornered on the edge of the map and can hit with the lunge, and when using the Spasmodic Breath or Matchbox add-ons. Finally for a bit of a history lesson, Nurse Blink attacks used to be Special Attacks, and were changed to basic attacks when Mettle of Man worked on basics as opposed to protection hits.
I think the above is good enough, but an additional idea would be to lock the camera when blinking, so that you cannot turn until you reach the blink destination. This would be disabled when using the Campbell’s Last Breath addon, re-enabling moving the camera during blinks. (Personally I think this would be too far if combined with the above nerf/nerfs, but the more ideas to play with the better.)
So then can you explain what happened here?
https://clips.twitch.tv/InquisitiveSincereFinchPogChamp-Gut-xxckE8uhgbAwBefore someone says something stupid like "This is comp so it doesn't count", yes, comp overall is drastically different from regular DBD, but many aspects of chase can still be learned from because it still works the same way. This would have worked regardless of comp or not.
It's not open if nurse got "stuck" on the tree (which she was thanks to need for a flashbang dodge). So no. This does not count. And not because of comp
Good, especially the first idea, no one likes to take noed over wi fi, hehe
taking advantage of the comment, the perk "Startruck" needed a nerf, I think it should have its time reduced to 10 seconds (currently it is 30), and it should have a range of 10 meters instead of the terror radius, because this perk should be a body block counter and not an oppressive perk
??? I am talking about the follow up blink where she had complete LoS on the Ace, who didn't break LoS at any point during the chain blink charge or travel and yet still successfully out-read the Nurse player and went further ahead than the Nurse expected him to.
You could use same argument if the nurse was being burned by flashlight - disabling the second blink... And that would not count the same way as this one even if it was on open...
That would make Starstruck literally useless garbage.
And that is wrong read of the situation. Ace used flashbang which forced nurse to not blink at him, but to make shorter blink to the tree - making it (forced) bad blink. Which on the other hand made her 2nd blink (barely) too short. So as I said. This does not count
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
I think that to make the killers strong, they should make the game base all strong, put native voice chat for survs (since swf uses discord) as well as buff the killers, give new powers, put cross hair and image filter on options menu, those things that people already use, but don't have in the game
Whenever I play a DBD game I question the honesty of my games, if the killers are using cross hair, filters, if the survs are in swf, with voice chat, so I rarely play pleasant games because of that, these improvements would help make the game fairer
Ok. So your answer is, that some survivors with specific items can sometimes delay nurse under specific conditions to not always get the hit right away, but 5s later. I guess I agree then.
Still - that is not balance.
At least it will serve what it really serves
Yes clearly that is entirely due to the item and not the read, yes yes.
Ah yes, what an incredible genius idea. "Make things literally useless."
First off there was the Jungle Gym and a tree to break LOS which Ace did, dropping the firecracker behind the tree.
The Nurse misplayed. Ace clearly moved near the tree and the Nurse did not adjust their aim to Blink 1m to the left or right, so when she tried to blink the hitbox overlapped with tree and bumped her back to the closest non-blocked blink location. Afterwards she panicked and tried for a quick follow-up and failed to charge the second blink enough.
This is less the Ace outplaying the Nurse, and more the Nurse breaking under pressure.
Also I do agree with "This is comp so it doesn't count", only because in a real match on hearing the first Nurse Blink there wasn't a DC or someone pointing hook.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
If you are referring to the last line then maybe you lack a sense of humor. Although to be fair this is the internet and I should have included the /s.
If you are referring to my refutation of your point I don't understand what I said was inaccurate. Perhaps you could clarify?
Everything ever is clearly just Nurse misplaying clearly, and not that the survivor played better/well.
And then somehow missing the cognitive dissonance in some of the best Nurse players in the world also making bad calls or mistakes at times (eg, other times during that game), and then judging performance and balance around perfect play, which doesn't ever happen regardless.
Does not apply, because:
Missing "negligible or no los blocker". Also huge misplay on nurses side
The first blink was against a single narrow tree. The chain blink was against zero LoS break at all. And refer back to the Wikipedia article, thanks.
Might be you didn't watch your own video. What I see is jungle gym breaking of LoS with conjuntion of tree and then also 2nd tree+rock. That is not negligible. Certainly not "no los blocker". Refer to your own post