BHVR, are you going to make an in-game solution for survivors holding the game hostage by hiding?
On several occasions, you have stated that hiding and refusing to attempt to repair generators while the hatch has not spawned (thus making it impossible to start Endgame Collapse) is against the rules because it is refusal to participate in normal gameplay and holding the game hostage. You have stated it needs a video report and can be potentially bannable on a case-by-case basis. That is all fine and dandy.
However, for the one stuck in that game, there is no good solution that currently exists in the game's base line. If a person does not happen to play a killer or run perks/add-ons that would have helped in this situation (eg, Doctor, Whispers, Iron Maiden, etc), they are just screwed. Survivors who intentionally hide in this manner also intentionally avoid AFK crows from spawning by walking/crouching around/swapping lockers/etc to give no possible information if the killer isn't lucky enough to be close by at the time to hear breathing or locker door sounds or whatnot.
Are there any plans to make some sort of in-game feature to deal with this? I am curious to hear on that, and if not, I would like to ask you to consider it, as it can end up in absurdly drawn out games of 10-20+ minutes of nothing being done and not being able to find anyone, especially on larger maps. It pretty much only gives an option of DCing, AFKing, or playing until one side finally gives up.
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Yes, because if there's one sport DBD is like, it's tennis. Trying to elude a bloodthirsty serial killer is just like hitting a ball back and forth, and both games should have the same rules.
???????
A dev got properly lambasted for comparing DBD to hockey. Don't make the same mistake. It's nonsense.
What ever you people say to make this game better you know the other side is gonna try and troll with it. This issue is trying to stop survivors from ######### around but a change will cause killers to try something just to troll. Both sides are just as guilty which makes this game a cesspool of bad balancing because both sides can be ######### for no reason with what they are given
I have never come across this before in 5years of playing survivor. It seems like it is such a niche issue so why would Devs address when there are a lot more important/frequently occurring issues with the game.
I would say the only solution is to just DC. But they threatened to ban me if I encouraged it. So I need to be clear and tell you NOT to DC. Do not, it is against the rules. Holding the game hostage is not, I guess? I do not know, they will not add a forfeit option to save people from being held hostage because it is intended, clearly. So, again, do not disconnect. That is against the rules. Just take your loss even if it takes up to 2 hours.
DbD is such a mess lol. any other game would just have a match timer, instead of being weirdly stubborn and supporting 1 hour+ long matches.
Why is there no match timer? Legitimately no reason not to have one.
As someone who's been on three ends of this:
1) Killer searching for last two sneakies - Iron Maiden shuts this down quickly, there hasn't been a single time this has happened while playing Trickster or Huntress that didn't resolve itself immediately by perk or idle crow
2) One person is still playing, but the second is hiding - Killer has searched hi and low, and not even aura reading perks aren't helping. Try to recruit the other survivor, chances are they have seen them while downed. Pick them up and let them escape, give them a nod, hit the gen or hook and shake no. Chances are if you pantomime enough, they will eventually understand the other teammate is actively betting on them getting killed so they can try for hatch and lead you to the hiding person. Rewarding helpful player with hatch should be customary. I've been on both sides of this one. It's almost ALWAYS worth an investigation when the killer isn't robotically seeking to hook everything in sight, though it can be hard to portray that info to the survivor at times through the limited gestures one can do as killer
3) You're both on death hook, and the killer prioritizes a 3 gen all within visual range from the start leaving you with the options to wait for the killer to actively search other places so you can try to double team the gen, get halfway done before having to hop off and hide again, and watch as they camp the gen while Call of Brine + Overcharge undoes all your progress and guarantees the killer sits there for another 10 minutes. Or just throwing the match.
"But this is taking match hostage!" No, in this instance it's the KILLER forcing a stalemate. Sure, the Survivors can't progress while Killer camps gens, but if the Killer doesn't have the skills to find the hiding Survivors and just camps gens nothings getting done. Unless you're expecting the Survivors to just throw themselves at your hook it's up to killer to search, A strategy I've used to end these stalemates is to let them get the final gen meanwhile finding a good place with line of sight on both the gates. Yes, it's gambling whether you're actually going to improve on the 2K you already have, but it's better than sitting around and complaining the survivors won't line up to be killed
Finally, as for the fourth situation: Full team members remaining, and all are full Bush Wookie mode, this is just trolling, and just like the eternal stun bully squads, the strategy falls apart if you just leave the area, not engaging, not walking into the trap, and breaking their formation. It kills the strategy. A fun way to do this is to turn the tables yourself, going pseudo-AFK in a killer shack can get them to come down with a deadly case of curiosity. Next level fun when using Infinite Tombstone Myers and replicating the AFK macro of swinging every few seconds while slowly amassing stalk. They will panic once you hit tier 2, but if you don't move and just continue swinging, they WILL come back to continue grinding heals, blinds, and time spent nearby allowing you to hit Tier 3 and pretty much guaranteeing 1-2 instant Moris
Now as for the people asking for changes to gameplay specifically to counter this, I'll offer you the same "It's a valid strategy!" as so many are willing to spout in defense for slugging, camping, and tunneling. BOTH "strategies" have perk reliant counters already present in game, BOTH offer a great disservice to the receiving party, and BOTH shouldn't be penalized without properly addressing the other. And defending one while damning the other is nothing but hypocrisy.
"The solution is really simple. If a survivor does nothing to try to advance the game for some period of time they start getting crows."
Survivors should be required to get points from chests, totems, heals or generators or they are considered stalling.
As game time increases make the stall timer get shorter and shorter before they get crows.
The thinks is, as someone usually doing gens in a 2v1 scenario, the one hidding is actually playing for the win, because the killer usually finds the one at the gens, not the other ones. And as much as killer claim they would go for the one hidding instead of the one doing gens, i never experienced that. Usually, the killer kills me because he doesnt want to search the last guy anymore, so the one hidding is going free.
So yes, he actually played for the win.
That would be too beneficial for killer. Repairing few secs should be enough and timer longer. As this would help killer tunnel one person out who tries to hide and avoid game gettng 3vs1.
I hope you are as condescending in "slugging for the 4k" threads and suggest "use a self pickup perk, duh".
Good job moving the goal post/changing the scenario for your argument.
OP talks about 2+ survivor alive and noone slugged but also doing jack ######### to progress the gens.
Which ones? Whispers is the only perk which sorta helps in this situation and good survivors will still be hard to find even with it.
With #2 if a survivor does that it is considered working with the killer which is reportable. The other survivor would just need to send down video proof - which killer letting someone go and them leading killer to hidden survivor is pretty obvious.
I don’t understand why people keep trying to argue it’s not against the rules. It’s not up for debate, BHVR has already explicitly stated it is against rules.
why is this even being talked about? bhvr literally fails at banning hackers who have video evidence of them doing it. hell i even saw a hacker who had been streaming him hacking for close to a year! so do you really think they would ban people for this?
Probably a controversial opinion here but I'm going to assume that there's only 2 survivors left when the hide and seek began because hide and seek with 3 or 4 survivors left would be silly (but not impossible) .
Going under that assumption, there's 2 possibilities for why the hide and seek game started.
So with that said, no new solution is required.
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i was gonna agree with you but then you used a clown emoji. like really man?
This is a non-issue. It's not happening often and you have the tools to find the survivors in Whispers, Spies (and Iron Maiden for locker hoppers).
If it is happening often, maybe look within for the solution (don't slug, don't tunnel for 3v1, don't camp). Yes you can choose to do those things. But you are not the only one with choices that can make the match unfun for others. Asking the Devs to hand you kills because using Whispers and Spies is "too hard" or "takes a perk slot" is the very definition of entitled.
They may sell a perk to monetize the issue, but I highly doubt it's something that is even seen as an issue at this point.
Congratulations, you are actively blaming the killer for not happening to run perks in case survivors actively break rules to hold the game hostage. Killers should not be forced to take perks because people might break rules.
It’s hilarious how you think legitimate gameplay is even the tiniest bit comparable whatsoever to actively breaking game rules to specifically NOT play.
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This is my experience too. Ive had these games where it's 2v1 and the other person is playing for hatch. The only reason the game doesn't get held hostage is because *I* don't let it - I'll park myself on a gen knowing I'm dead once the killer checks my gen. Only once has a killer ever let me go - after a long chase with no gen popping, the killer downed me and went straight to shack and found the other survivor (why do they always hide in those particular lockers??) and then let me go. Once.
So from my observation, playing for hatch is an effective strategy because it seems to work for them. The stalemate happens when you have two survivors who enjoy this strategy. The downside is the game is dragged to the point of absolute frustration for everyone except the hidden survivor/s.
Playing for hatch in a 2v1 is a legitimate strategy. There are even challenges that require playing for hatch. The scenario of holding the game hostage you are referring to is a coordinated effort by the two survivors to not progress the game. If that's the case then film then report them and use the recording to back up your claim.
However, what is likely happening is two survivors chased off a gen initially, becoming more cautious approaching the gen and leaving as soon as the TR sounds; never actually making it to the gen to make progress. If you're filming, this would be easy to prove. Stay away from the gens and see if they get completed (or not). If they don't then you have a recording showing no effort from a survivor to progress the game and can report them.
But I would wager that the gens would get repaired in most cases.
Playing for hatch in a 2v1 is a legitimate strategy. There are even challenges that require playing for hatch. The scenario of holding the game hostage you are referring to is a coordinated effort by the two survivors to not progress the game. If that's the case then film then report them and use the recording to back up your claim.
However, what is likely happening is two survivors chased off a gen initially, becoming more cautious approaching the gen and leaving as soon as the TR sounds. Never actually making it to the gen to make progress. This is easily tested by walking away from the gen. If it never gets repaired, report them and submit your recording. But I would imagine in most cases the gens will get done.
Um. I’m not sure if you didn’t properly read what the thread is about, but this is specifically about never repairing gens. As in, gens never progress. And yes, it can be video recorded and reported. But there needs to be an in-game solution because currently, unless you get lucky, or happened to run specific killers/perks/add-ons that help, it is absurdly difficult to end and can be dragged on for 10-30+ minutes of pure hostage taking.
If they were repairing and then hid when killer came by, that’s fine. Not touching a gen ever is against rules.
From a logistics standpoint, this type of holding things hostage is actually the hardest to report with video evidence, since its recording inaction after an unreasonable timeframe. Recordings take up a lot of space, and this isn't the kind of thing you can just flip a recording on and witness. You need to be able to show that zero gens have been progressed for a considerable period of time, while also accounting for stunted (yet attempted) progress like you mentioned. The burden of proof becomes far too great on the end user, even moreso than it generally is with this absolutely archaic report system.
The EGC was introduced to prevent survivors from refusing to leave when all the gens were powered, closing hatch was introduced to prevent hatch standoffs. Basement stairs were made wider so killers couldn't bodyblock people in the basement, Myers loses collision while stalking so he cant bodyblock people and stalk for free. These types of situtaions have been addressed multiple times in the past and the only reason anyone wouldn't want this one to be addressed is if they either want to make the killer DC, or they absolutely refuse to accept their loss and want to play the waiting game with the other remaining survivor at the killer's expense.
The hatch itself isn't really the problem, nor is wanting it. demanding it is the issue, and if it was something you actually earned rather than a random second chance, there would be a lot more room to work with regarding how to make it more fair to both sides. Until there is, many games are going to either end in a slug for the 4k or two survivors fighting over who has more time to waste that day. Fixing the issue would address both problems simultaneously.
Since we don't have an actual video, every single discussion in this thread is entirely hypothetical and based on subjective experiences in game. It could be anything from "killer diligently searches the entire map constantly for 90 minutes" (which some people here assume), or "killer checked the four remaining gens once and didn't see any survivors, so I'm going to tab out to post about a hostage situation", or anything in between. Arguably, the first extreme is against the rules and the second is a killer being lazy and entitled. The reality is somewhere in between and depends entirely on the situation.
Personally, I've never had "extreme hiding" from any survivors in any of my games. When I do get into a situation where they are playing more defensively I have always been able to draw them out or mind game a bit to catch them out. I also run one or more information perks normally, so I can find survivors easier/faster. So, from my perspective, this issue is at minimum exaggerated, or possibly an issue with the killer not bringing the right tools.
It's the killer's job to locate, chase down, and kill survivors. It's not up to the survivors to present themselves for death when the killer decides the game should be over. If the killer is failing to "find" survivors, they objectively are doing a bad job at their primary role. That's why there are perks, killer powers and addons, and base game mechanics that make it possible to find survivors.
If this stalemate scenario happens once, then sure, some players are #########, just go next. But people here seem to talk about it as though this is happening every other game. If this is actually happening often, that is certainly not a common scenario for everyone, and that killer should consider ways to make it easier for them to find survivors. There are many of them in the game. Also, if you have enough pressure on a regular basis to encourage many survivors to go into extreme hiding, you certainly have perk slots you can swap out. You don't always need 4 slowdowns.
You know how many people exploited Michael Myer's Tombstone pink by a locker? People will just run to a locker because they know you can't mori them despite charging the entire game. I still got it dealing with that plus It just never dawned on me it would take so long to make it so a grab out of a locker in that situation would just still mori them anyway, not force you to hook or drop
I think this is the best solution and it would solve a lot of problems. I would shorten it to 20 or 25 because I think the average game time is 8-16 minutes? I don't know for sure but I'll go look it up.