So, how do you feel about the Calm Spirit nerf?
Calm Spirit reduces Cleansing and Searching speeds by 30%. Cleansing a Totem increases from 14 seconds to 20 seconds.
How do you feel about it?
Calm Spirit reduces Cleansing and Searching speeds by 30%. Cleansing a Totem increases from 14 seconds to 20 seconds.
How do you feel about it?
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Comments
So it's ok for one survivor perk to negate two killer powers and four perks for an entire trial? I don't agree. And that's coming from a survivor main.
Edit: typo.
Personally, I think the tracking removal perks shouldn’t stack. For example, if someone has a perk that is actively removing crow alerting, then they shouldn’t be able to also gain sound removal from OTR at the same time. The problem with the “there are more than one tracking methods” argument is that survivors like to make stealth builds that combine multiple tracking removal perks.
The current downside is a bit strange, but it’s probably the most fair downside we can get. I doubt BHVR wants to stop stealth perks from stacking, and a lot of maps don’t have enough crows for a cooldown to be a fair downside.
It isn't just the crows, though. What about the killer perks and powers that cause screaming? All hard stopped by Calm Spirit, with the only downside being if you decide to open chests, or cleanse or bless totems. And as stated earlier, I disagree with the speed reduction. I think a lengthy cooldown is more fair.
I’d be completely fine with a cooldown as a downside. The problem is the amount of coding that it would take to implement. BHVR would have to somehow flag a crow as “bypassed” by the perk, and then remove the flag when the survivor leaves that crow’s alerting range.
I’ve thought about it some more, and yes, I’d rather the cleansing slowdown were replaced with a 90 second cooldown when a crow or scream is avoided.
This exactly. If it was an option as a secondary action it would be pretty cool. I've caught survivors cleansing totems before because I could hear the totem through a building. But 30% is just too high of a penalty to have it always be done even when you know the killer is 3 light years away from you. Especially if the killer runs thrill of the hunt or something.
A 90-second cooldown is far too long for the niche benefits. The perk was completely fine as it was before. Doctor and Clown also both have aura reading add-ons to counter the RARE time someone is actually running Calm Spirit.
OKI don't love playing super stealth that is where I'm coming from here as a player.
And while I agree for a totem that's just out in the open this would be a Nerf however If the totems in a place where the killer can't always easily have line of sight on it Being able to cleanse it silently means you're less likely to be interrupted so those extra seconds may or may not matter.
So here's a couple of examples of where this is clearly a Buff, let's say you're going against Devour hope and you've already cleansed undying so it's gone you find Devour hope. Killer is chasing someone that kind of come in range and doesn't get line of sight on you but he hears you cleansing devour hope he might drop Chase and go after you and interrupt you if he can't hear you hes not gonna drop Chase for you you might still get the cleanse. To this You might say well he won't hear me over the Chase music OK fine maybe here's another example.
Killer gets a discordance proc Walks within range of hearing his Totem cause he wants to go after the guys on the Generator But he is making sure his Devour hope is still OK But he here's your cleansing So instead he goes after you cleansing the totem instead of the guys on the generator. Not with calm spirit. Still not enough.
OK let's do another one, End game situation there's a hatch offering hatch is gonna be at main building killers gonna get there 1st you are near shack and a Door Both doors are close together so it's gonna be tough to win the door battle And basement is in shack You hit the chest in basement to try and get a key while the killer's doing his patrol He's not gonna hear you opening that chest, You get a key and you get Hatch.
The point here is yes sometimes it will be seen as a nerf but there are also times where the extra stealth is going to be s buff.
Stealth costing speed is also already a common factor, don't want to leave scratch marks walk, slower, Want to avoid hag traps or trail of torment Crouch walk, Slower, Is hide in a locker or vault without making a sound, Slower.
Make it a new perk then. This effect shouldnt be forced onto Calm Spirit that people ran for completely different reasons.
That implies that the killer powers won't work at all. With doctor sure it hard to detect survivors but survivors still get the madness effect and it can still be used mid chase to deny looping. With clown the scream doesn't matter that often since the only important parts are the obscured vision and hindread. You can remove the scream and it won't effect anything not that I can see.
The effect of removing screaming doesn't seem that major to warrant a 90 second cooldown. That's way to long
Why make a new perk that no one's gonna run Than add value to a perk that a lot of people don't run anyways to give it extra value in niche situation.
Did anyone ever actually use this or are people just mad for the sake of it?
Because it removes value in all other situations outside of the niche one. I'm all for the silent cleansing/searching to be added if it's without the penalty, or at a minimum, less than a 30% penalty (worse than 4 stacks of Thanatophobia).
I did actually use it, cause I like not screaming. But since it's not a perk used by a lot of people, the negative feedback on this change is getting overlooked over all the other changes in the PTB.
The scream removal itself might not be worth a 90 second cooldown, but the crow bypassing definitely is worth a 90 second cooldown. And since the perk does scream removal and crow bypassing, the perk should go on a 90 second cooldown if either of them gets bypassed.
It takes what 16 seconds to open/cleanse, and with this its like 20. You can offset the open time with pharmacy so maybe if they added a cleanse speed buff to small game to compensate that would kinda cool.
But frankly stealth shouldnt come for free. And the whole reason they changed calm spirit was because not many people ran it, and since it is a stealth based perk they gave it extra stealth utility.
I still see it as a buff overall
It sucks, but it's not as bad as the big pharmercy nerf. you can no longer be garunteed a green medkit from a chest while healthy. by the time you're injured, all the chests would have allready been unlocked, making the perk unusable.
This was a perfectly balanced perk that literally no one complained about, but had the lame excuse that "they don't want teammates to steal thier medkit". it's kind of offensive that they're trying to trick us into thinking it's a buff, same with calm spirit...
The bigger question is, why are we grunting and making noise while cleansing totems anyway? lol
Overal i'm a fan of adding a negative to a powerfull effect as it opens more creativity.
You can add effects that normally would be to powerfull on their own without having to worry about it going out of control
That being said
Not making noise while opening a chest/cleansing a totem or not making a explosion while missing a skillcheck aren't exactly the thing i'm thinking of when i say powerfull effects
More often than not, you are opening a chest and cleansing/blessing when the killer is not around anyway, and those actions are still slower with this change. Therefore, it is explicitly a nerf in those more common scenarios. That cannot be denied.
I only think the slower speed is potentially a fair trade-off if you start the action while inside the terror radius.
It couldnt be more deaD.
And in those scenarios the slower speed isnt a factor because you arent in danger anyways.
To your second point i could agree but it would have to affect you mid action if the terror radius comes to you.
Barely anyone used it but people are not mad because they nerfed it, people are mad because they nerfed it while they believed they were actually buffing it which shows lack of understanding about the game.
The fact several unused perks which were going to be buffed/changed to make them more appealing and supposedly shake up the meta in reality got nerfed or barely changed at all (Calm Spirit, Pharmacy, Sole Survivor, Dark Sense, Deja Vu, Tenacity and some others) is what makes people angry, before these changes a lot of people wondered if the development team understood their game, now we have confirmation they dont.
How about cleansing devour hope against a doctor defending his totem with his static blast
It still interrupts the action, you just don't scream. The Doctor could then do what any other killer does and check on the totem, especially since they would likely know someone has Calm Spirit. The survivor's madness level would also increase, which is reflected on the HUD. Nearly everything has a counter in the game, Calm Spirit is no different.
The slower speed is a factor though, that's why killers run Thanatophobia, Dying Light, etc. that slow down actions when they aren't around. The extra seconds on a totem could make a difference in getting a generator done, getting an unhook, etc. That's why it shouldn't be a penalty when the killer isn't around (and the only fair way to determine that is with the terror radius), if they want to call the Calm Spirit change a "buff".
Is the killer really gonna waste the seconds to go check the totem if he shocks and there is no proc there and a proc somewhere else just assuming someone is running calm spirit and cleansing the totem. I think not.
Right but if you start the action outside the terror radius and the terror radius comes to you the slowdown should still kick in. Like with couloraphobia if your healing outside and the killer comes to you the slowdown kicks in.
Not only that, if the Doctor is actually decent he will know someone is using Calm Spirit already because as you said, the madness increases but he didnt see a scream, odds are if he blasts with a Hex inside his radius, sees a madness tier up (either by seeing the Survivor portrait or a BP prompt) he will beeline towards it, in this case Calm Spirit acts as a tell for Doctor to check the Totem ASAP.
"I blasted with the Totem inside, Calm Spirit user got tiered up, he may be very close to the Hex, I should check it", congratulations your "stealth cleansing perk" actually gave you away and if you got interrupted at second 14,01 onwards the 30% increased time actually prevented you from cleansing it! YAY!! BUFFS TO SHAKE THE META!!
That is a single niche scenario that Calm Spirit would actually give the survivor value. That's why Calm Spirit is a niche perk that doesn't need a nerf.
To your second point, I understand what you mean now. In my head, I was thinking the actions wouldn't be silent outside the terror radius, so you wouldn't be getting the silent action buff anyway. I'd be fine with either scenario then.
I hate it. This was a nerf not a buff. Doing it silently? Yes good idea! Making it take longer? No! Why? Because that INSTANTLY deters people away from the perk.
If they have to have the quiet function make it 30/20/10%
I could maybe see that if there are no screams but especially if your playing big TR doctor there would be other screams that you'd go for over checking a totem with no screams when they could just as easily be on a gen, or positioning for a flashlight/pallet/ sabo save.
If you are playing Doctor with a Hex and you blast with the Totem in the area of effect, see a Calm Spirit user tiering up you have to check it, he may not be close but he can be there and Devour Hope or Ruin is well worth the few seconds you are going to spend going there.
In any case, even if you make the Doctor waste time the odds of this happening are around non existant, while the odds of wasting 4 seconds cleansing a Hex are going to happen always. Believing this perk got buffed or is better because of a very small fringe scenario where it actually benefits you while the most common one is being an active hindrance is ludicrous.
So are you telling me that, again playing doctor every time you use your static blast, In range of your totem, you are counting all of the score events all of the screams figuring out where all of those are happening around you and looking at the portraits to see exactly which people tiered up, and Then taking 5 seconds to walk to your totem to check on the hunch that there might be someone there then walking the 5 seconds plus to where people were actually screaming.
If you ask me if you've got 2 people on a gem with proof thyself that extra 15 seconds coulf be the difference between a Gen Getting finished or not that's a heck of a waste of killer's time I would call that a buff
Terrible change, I wish they'd just revert it and self care/botany too, even pharmacy is bad now
Dead perk. If the killer is nearby you shouldn't even be doing the action or the killer is checking to protect the Hex. Making it take longer and silent will hurt you more than help since the majority of the time the killer isn't even near you when your doing them.
Actually I do, yes, its just counting 4 prompts tops or checking 4 portraits, its not even hard to do it (rarely its 4 anyway, usually around 1 or 2 people get caught in a blast anyway) and if I use it with the Totem inside my TR its because I want to check on it without walking towards it.
By the way you dont need to check the portraits AND count the prompts, either you count the prompts or check the portraits, 3 prompts/tier ups and 2 screams? the Calm Spirit user was affected, 3 prompts/tier ups and 3 screams? nobody was using it.
If you ask me if you've got 2 people on a gem with proof thyself that extra 15 seconds coulf be the difference between a Gen Getting finished or not that's a heck of a waste of killer's time I would call that a buff
Now this, so to make Calm Spirit worth it you need 2 people on a gen, with Prove Thyself, with a Hex in your TR, with the gen progressed enough to be finished in less than 10 seconds, with people who didnt got to Tier3 (which would interrupt the fixing) with a Calm Spirit user around but far away from the Hex? I believe I have bigger odds winning the lotery than seeing this more than once per year, while wasting 4 seconds per Totem is going to happen every single match.
I also find funny how you argue 4 seconds extra cleansing is not that determinant but checking a Hex for 5 is game losing, especially since gens now take 10 extra seconds.
Shadowstep exists already
Alright well up where you play it may be a nerf but where i play itd be a buff because i know i cant keep track of all that in that situation.
As for your lottery comment that would have applied pre patch as well because pretty much no one ran the perk anyways and in alot of matches there is no need to cleanse totems anywaysso it also doesnt happen every match
3rd its 5 seconds to check the totem and 5+ potentially to investigate your screams which is ironically the extra 10 seconds it takes to finish a gen.
Still a buff if you ask me.
It's sad tbh. It already wasn't a great perk, but now Jake really doesn't have any perks that are worth leveling him up for. I don't think there should be a time penalty for running the perk because of how niche the use is.
Ngl, this and the changes to Iron Will + Spine Chill make me the big sad. This perk wasn't made any better, and while I know a lot of people had complaints about Iron Will and Spine Chill, I always really liked them and weren't in bad spots.
I just think it's kinda wild that they changed those perks that, while popular, weren't exactly awful to verse as a part of those 'Unstoppable Perks' (in the same way that Corrupt Intervention was changed, but tbh I can at least see where they were coming from with it, especially since there are still a lot of good Gen Regression perks in the game and a few gen regression perks were buffed during the patch.). while perks like Deadlock or Overcome weren't touched.
You mean the boon that requires at least 14 seconds to setup, and only affects a 24-meter radius.. and can also be snuffed (permanently in the case of Shattered Hope)? Sounds like it has plenty of downsides to me.
Seems a completely unnecessary nerf. The perks beneficial effect isn't even strong. Makes me wonder what goes through these devs heads at times.
Always has been
Honestly not sure how it's considered a nerf considering Calm Spirit is one of the best perks in the game for 1 simple reason: When it's at 100%, u don't have to worry about crows alerting the killer to where u are on the map. Which is useful in any match cause there are usually alot of crows and it's really easy to scare them and let the killer know exactly where u are by doing so.
Since the update, the 100% effective thing against not alerting crows happens at lvl 1 instead of lvl 3 which is why it's one of the few perks the update changed that made it better instead of worse.
Since Killers sometimes rely on the crows to find out where on the map u are while hunting u. By using this perk u take that ability away from them even at lvl 1. So I'm not sure how more people don't see it as one of the best perks in the game instead of the worst. It's on all my builds.
It legit cost me two games, both with noed. I use it with flash bang in case a killer has infectious fright. It also helps against Iron Maiden (cause of the screaming and using locker for flash bangs), not alerting crows which is actually more useful than some might realize, and the occasional doctor. I was 2 sec away from cleansing noed in both instances before one teammate went down and where I was grabbed off the totem with the other instance. I’m taking it off until it’s reverted back or made better
But at level 3 it was already at 100%. So when comparing level 3 before and now, it is 100% a nerf because of the slower speed for a "silent" action that isn't even silent and still penalizes you when the killer isn't even nearby. No forced speed debuff is worth silent actions, especially when people are running the perk to prevent screaming and disturbing crows, not for the silent actions.
I genuinely think that they had good intentions and wanted to buff the perk but vastly overestimated to power of silent actions and attached a downside that is way too harsh to balance that.
That's my guess, too. I hope they see the feedback that the downside isn't worth the trade-off and find a fix, even if that means reverting it.
For some reason the devs want us to play without perks
Ur logic makes no sense at all. How did it get nerfed when at lvl 1 it is still 100% effective at not startling crows. All calm mind has ever been good for is that and that part of the perk alone makes it one of the best in the game.
BHVR wanted to adjust its usage to 0%. I’d say they were successful
And even then, when I play doc and I go against calm spirit, I still get audible feedback from the doc himself to tell me that I shocked you on the other side of the wall, so I can guess where you're going