Thana won't be staying like this long, sadly
I just had a legion game where an extremely obvious bully swf just simply gave up partway into the match because they simply didn't want to play with the gen speeds I had forced them to. I was running thana, thrilling tremors, surveillance, and oppression. They finished one gen but it was obviously going to require too much of a time investment for them to continue the game, and they weren't going to get the satisfaction of stomping on a killer, so they just simply locker-hopped to annoy me until I finally hooked them all.
These are the kind of survivors that are going to be very vocal about how the balance in this patch is too killer-sided. So enjoy your slowdown builds while they last, I can't imagine bhvr not listening to the bully swf people who want to be able to feel invincible again.
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2% more does so little there is no reason to complain about, it's only strong on 2-3 killers.
Well, from my experience I can say that the survs I have faced as legion never gave up, and I was running Thanatophobia, dying light, call of brine and gift of pain. Some even were swf groups. Now, as I play on PS4, I could not see if they were complaining. You just were unlucky to find the typical immature bully squad that starts crying if they do not feel empowered. Don't worry about it, they will most likely be ignored.
If they listened only to killers, they would have nerfed the Circle of Healing + Bottany Knowledge combo, and wouldn't have made Off The Record such a strong perk.
And that change happened simultaneously with Moris getting overhauled and significantly nerfed as well. (Prior to that patch Red and Green moris let you kill a survivor after only one hook.)
Small correction, they did not happen simultaneous. The Mori change happened in patch 4.4.1, which was released December 8 2020. While the key/hatch change was in patch 5.3.0, which was released on October 19 2021.
It took them almost a year for them to get to balancing the key/hatch with the mori change.
I stand corrected, I remembered they announced both were undergoing changes at the same time but I forgot one took longer to implement than the other. (Probably because the key/hatch change was more fundamental than just changing a single parameter like the mori changes were.)
Your hyperbole defeats your whole argument here. A lot of those nerfs happened because survivors were abusing them.
The hook changes for instance were due to survivors running to parts of the map where it was impossible to hook them.
DH didn't only give "2 seconds" longer in chases and you know that.
Infinite loops made it impossible for a killer to even get a hit so survivors would bring offerings for those maps and run straight to the infinite every chase.
Keys let survivors fail their objective but still get a 3-man escape.
Flashlights gave an insta-blind so the survivor didn't even have to time the save right to make it work.
Gen speeds were/are a problem when survivors can bring Prove Thyself, Toolboxes, and BNP's and pop 2 gens at the start of the match before the killer can even cross the map to get there.
And you're ignoring all of the killer nerfs that have happened. Nurse was nerfed, Spirit was nerfed twice, Deathslinger was nerfed. Pyramid Head was nerfed, Freddy was nerfed multiple times, Cenobite was nerfed, Wraith was nerfed, a lot of killer add-ons were nerfed, Ruin has been nerfed twice, Pop was nerfed twice, SH:PR was nerfed, Undying was nerfed, even Huntress' Lullaby was nerfed.
The build the OP described was nothing. Easily countered in every way. Thana can be avoided by healing or just worked through because at max it only adds something like 19 seconds to a generator if only 1 person is working on it, Thrilling Tremors doesn't block a gen if you're actively working on it and even if you let go it's only up for a few seconds. Oppression is so weak almost no one runs it. You get a difficult skill check if you happen to be working on one of the random gens it selects or it causes 3 gens to regress at 4 times longer than it takes a solo survivor to repair it and gen tapping will stop it entirely.
The survivors who are actually good at the game will eventually learn to loop without Dead Hard and use strategies that work in the new meta. Bad ones will either adapt or leave.
Kill rates will go back down once survivors figure out how to deal with some of the changes. They're used to getting an extra 20 seconds every chase, but since click E to safety to erase mistakes no longer works, they're stuck trying to figure out how to use other exhaustion perks effectively (mostly bad ones like Sprint Burst) and deal with gen speeds.
Their MMR might go down some. Killer MMR might go up. And then things will balance out as survivors relearn how to play the game, which is basically what they need to do since they have an extra 10 seconds on gens and no free escape perk for every chase.
This post has to be bait. If this isn't bait, I urge you to seek help.
The entire reason BHVR added 50 seconds to the main objective was so that killers could use fewer slowdown perks and mix things up.
The "bully SWF people" aren't going to ruin your slowdown perks, killers will ruin the perks by overusing them.
Legion has 2 built-in slowdown components to his power, mending and healing. Healing a survivor without a medkit takes 16 seconds without a medkit. However, before survivors heal, if you have tagged them during Feral Frenzy an additional 8 second mend action must be completed first. So without any perks or add-on, you can add 24 seconds of healing action to any survivor you tag. You can also tag multiple survivors with Feral Frenzy potentially stacking up to 96 seconds of recovery actions for the survivors if you tag all 4 survivors (and let them "reset"). That's 1 minutes, 36 seconds!
Now technically survivors in the past have had the option of simply skipping the healing actions and rushing generators. However, with the additional 50 seconds it is far too risky to attempt repairs while injured as you now have enough time to ideally win 1 or 2 chases without effort and then hook survivors to slow down the game.
All of this is to say, if you're telling me that the objective being extended 50 seconds, in addition to having a power to add potentially an extra minute and a half to the game at will doesn't give you enough time to catch survivors, and that you require the objectives to take an additional minute and half (with max thana value) to complete simply is the amount of time you need to get all of your kills I urge you to seek help.
Watch Otz, watch Farmer John, watch somebody and learn more about Legion and general looping/chase mind games. You shouldn't need 180 extra seconds every match to catch everyone.
No I don't think that's how they operate just cause of bully swf... Their kind already Ruined Overcharge and now it's trash. They will never be happy and always whine. Don't worry so soon. It's not that bad, just continue running those builds and have fun.
The "effects of the patch as a whole" is there regardless of whether or not you take Thana. The main point of this thread was that Thana shouldn't have gotten buffed. My point was that the buff equates to a very small portion of your total gen repair time, even at max stacks, and that for that reason I don't care if it does get reverted because it makes no difference to me, and I don't understand why people are inflating the actual effects of it.
I'm a killer main (which I'm sure most already guessed), but I also run solo survivor at least once a play session, and while the new gen times are definitely felt, I'm not railing on Thana or any other perk because of it. If you really hate Thana that much, there are plenty of counters for it.
I was just thinking of surveillance too on legion, but with the overcharge variety.
And instead of oppression (good choice) overcharge.
Thanks for the tip 👍
No, they slowed down gens so killers didn't HAVE to do that. Now they have a choice on how to build. There's nothing wrong with a killer choosing to play a longer game and it's usually a better strategy.
for the math impaired.
Old Gens & Old Thana > 80 seconds x 1.2 = 96 seconds
New Gens & New Thana > 90 seconds *1.22 = 109.8 seconds
109.8 - 96 = 13.8 seconds
Did that explain the difference in what I said sufficiently?
I mean, killers already convinced the devs that 4-men swf, which are about 5-6% of the survivor playerbase, are the all-powerful enemies and that nerfing them is worth making more than 50% of the survivor playerbase suffer.
I don't think the devs are going to take that 5% of survivor's opinion into account, considering they already don't listen to the 50+% soloQ players.
If thana is nerfed, it's gonna be because it's unfun for most of the survivors, not just for 5% of them.
So Thana seems quite safe to me.
Dude, read all my posts. I already admitted my mistake and apologised.
Also, someone else already pointed out that it is 20/22% removed from the gen repair speed, not 20/22% added to the gen repair time, so those numbers aren’t accurate.
survivors are in desperate need of more fun options in gameplay. the devs are pushing for gen simulation with the latest patch. and the game has been going downhill since years. There is nothing fun anymore for the survivor to play the game. Especially now the killer has so many tools to shorten your stay in the game (i hear you solo survivor). DO SOMETHING DEVS, cause i will tell you if you don't, you can start thinking of making DBD 2.
How can you take the survivors' side in this? Is it now okay to DC or give up because the mean killer used a certain build?
1) Maps were took dark
2) There are still plenty of god loops, especially in the newer maps where there's just a hallway and a pallet that you must break.
3) Only recently, and against SWF kill squads that has always been true, the kill speed to chase ratio coupled with dead hard meant the survivor could literally hold "w" and you would lose 3 gens even if they didn't use a single loop or pallet.
4) I don't remember this ever being a thing, i think it was more the "hook distance offering" was changed to not stack, which again with SWF kill squads made it literally impossible to hook.
5) Dead hard did not give you 2 extra seconds, it was a 3rd health state when survivors used it for distance.
6) OG DS was super OP, remember when killers had to juggle? I was happy with the version we had previously where it was a 5 second stun but deactivated when doing stuff or in endgame, but to be fair it was only ever made 5 seconds back when enduring worked on it.
7) I don't think flashlights have really been reworked, unless you mean the super old ones like when mcote played as hag against that korean team years ago and they bullied him hard with flashlights. You can't tell me that was fair...
8) Hatch has always been fine, keys were the problem because survivors could basically get free escape and it would shorten the end of the game. I could say the same thing about moris, which were reworked first. But i'll tell you what, you can have keys and hatch back if we get OG moris back.
At some point, I'd say yes, it is. A survivor quitting because the killer is using a forever build isn't that different from the killer quitting because the survivors are playing a forever game (such as sabo-oak-Exponential-Boil Over RPD, No Mither Soul Guard Breakdown shenanigans, a full team abusing double locker saves with Built To Last, or just any old bully squad that completely outmatches the killer and refuses to end the game.) At some point, it's obvious the other side is trolling you and there is zero potential for fun in the match by a near-universal definition of the word, win or lose. Do I condone DCs? No. Do I understand people dying early, giving up, or going into a corner and refusing to play? Absolutely.
Granted, I think the OP's build could have been worse, but I've played a few Thana Legions and it's about as enjoyable as deepthroating barbed wire. I don't give up for the sake of my teammates, but if the whole party agrees that they want to go next, that's one of the most valid reasons to ######### on hook that I've ever seen.
Edit: I should add that the lynchpin isn't "I'm not having fun in this match", it's "this match will take ages to complete on its own, to the point where it could be considered soft hostage taking."
All of those killer complaints were valid! Killers have gotten so many buffs because killer sucks! And you say you agree with our positions, but you're bashing the devs based on this false narrative that killers were "exclusively 'catered' to." I mean which is it?
And let's stop with these "forever builds." Killer has never had a forever build. Survivors have the end say, because they choose if they want to be efficient or not, just like the killer does except gens go quicker than hooks. Facing a build with a bunch of slowdown just means you can't go down to the killer constantly and still rush gens. And that's easy to do, since they don't have anything dedicated to chase perks.
This! God forbid survivors be able to hide effectively in a horror game.
If people are complaining about matches taking too long, then they can't complain about tunneling because it ends the match faster.
Also, you're comparing apples to oranges, because these situations you're talking about, the killer or survivors holding the game hostage because of the overwhelming advantage they have, almost never happen (certainly not for the killer). Even survivors, as petty as they are, don't ever get in a SWF just to make each other unkillable and not do gens/escape. That just doesn't happen. Maybe 1/1000 at best.
But the main point is, we're now excusing survivors who DC because they think that the match is unwinnable, even when that's never the case. Self-fulfilling prophecy. And the real kicker is that it's somehow the killer's fault, because he's being "toxic" because he ran slowdown perks.
It's crazy you took the time to write that much for almost every paragraph to be partially wrong if not fully.
Slowdown(s) ? Plural? Thanatophobia was their only one. TT just blocks while the survivor is being carried, that's nothing. Surveillance is just for information and the cooldown for Oppression is so ridiculous it hardly sees enough use to come close to being Oppressive not to mention you just have to hit a skill check to prevent it on the other generators.
That's a tracking build with barely any slowdown.
Survivors can now use other exhaustion perk which give time as well. When im doing gen with sb I can safely sit on it and when killer comes I just run to close pallet and killer have to waste lot of timesm to get the first hit. But before killer would get that hit before I reach the pallet.
It slows down anybody wanting to work on gens for 16 seconds unless they were already on one then they just have a target on their back.
"2% is 2% no matter what base numbers you're talking about" You do know how percentages work right? lol 2% of 80 is not the same as 2% of 90, X5gens. Just like 15% (pain resonance) isn't the same.
Want to have some big laughs with Legion?
Run Thana, Coulrophobia, Unnerving Presence, and Sloppy. I played on Mother's Dwelling and 10 minutes went by before they finally finished a gen. And yes, this was minutes after I just started walking around casually.
I understand feeling overwhelmed and all, but with the amount of repair speed perks, toolboxes, etc., Thana can get shut down even if a team is injured if they work together and are smart. Split up when that bass starts up from a distance if working on a gen together. But there's no reason to not do gens if the killer just basically stops applying pressure.
And it's not just Legion survivors give up against. Only killer I regularly play that survivors don't give up against is Trapper, the most basic killer in terms of mobility and power.
Uh, yeah, I do. Do you? 2% of 80 and 2% of 90 are still two...freakin...percent. This whole thread is complaining about two...freakin...percent.
I've argued the whole time that I don't care if it stays or is reverted, because 2% (at full stacks, which is rarely going to be the case outside Legion and Plague) makes no difference to me, whether I be playing killer or survivor. What is hurting survivors so much with regards to generators is the extra 10 seconds it takes at base level, not a piddly 2% (again, at full stacks) increase to Thana.