Skill Based Solution For Hatch Standoffs
Everyone hates the waiting game of who wins the hatch standoff, wait hours until that Survivor jumps in and maybe the Killer catches them, or maybe the Killer disconnects. It is a losing game for everyone involved because it is the only thing in this entire game that is not based on skill. The Hatch is basically Mama Entity saying ''oh you couldn't do 5 Gens? Poor baby here's a hatch'' the Survivor jumps in while the Killer looks appalled and the Entity says ''my special boy''. That's the Hatch.
So how about when there is 1 Survivor and at least 2 Gens done the Hatch spawns in as normal BUT needs a key. At that moment when there is normally this scenario and only this scenario a chest also appears, containing the key to open it. The Survivor who has eluded the killer this entire time must continue sneaking like normal until they find that chest and get the key, all while avoiding the killer, as usual, they must find the Hatch and BAM they're out. The hatch grab is just taken out of this scenario.
Yeah, I know what about the normal keys that spawn in chests, those can stay of course, why would they get taken out? You can still bring in a key as normal and get out when the Hatch shows itself like normal. Nothing else changes except you as the Survivor must continue evading the killer and find that key. You as the Killer must continue hunting that Survivor and hook them. If the killer camps the Hatch and the Survivor has the key well they need to get two hits in before they can open that hatch and just leave. BUT, of course, that only happens in that scenario, if someone brings in a key or finds a random key the hatch grab is still a thing because that's fair, you don't just be an idiot and open the hatch in front of the killer, you get punished by being grabbed. But at the end of the game that hatch escape is EARNED, it was EARNED because that Survivor was skilled enough to get out. They weren't handed a pity pat on the back, Mama Entity didn't bring the poor baby some cookies cuz he was sad. Daddy Entity stepped in and said stop crying and get off your ass.
Comments
what's keeping the killer from camping the chest?
how is this not catering to the killer who couldn't be bothered to slug the second to last survivor?
How can the Killer camp a chest that was randomly spawned? They don't know where it is, aren't there 3 chests normally? Oh look I found a 4th chest and it's opened, or was it a normal chest, do they have the key already or are they still looking for the right chest?
Also, they can camp the hatch but because there is no Hatch grab the Survivor can run up to the killer, get hit, use the key and get in. If the Killer just stands there trying to bait them or if they get there first it does not matter because in that scenario there is no Hatch grab, the Killer cannot win the scenario when the Survivor finds the key unless they catch Survivor before they get to the hatch.
Killers should not have to slug to get the 4k, that says that Survivors are entitled to the Hatch because the Killer and Survivor knows that when they are the last Survivor they win, hands down they win, no skill required. You want 4k then slug because if you don't slug and you just kill then that Survivor gets out, why do they get out? Why should they just get out?
Why?
second, you do make a valid point about there already being chests and seeing one opened doesnt necessarily mean that isn't the key-chest, or that the survivor doesn't already have it, or other possible doubts.
with that said, it's still possible.
and I had misunderstood you, I think, in that I thought your first intention was that the survivor would still have to "open" the hatch in order to escape, something that would give the killer ample amount of time to hit them twice... so if that wasnt what you meant then I apologize.
even still, it seems like a decent idea on paper, metaphorically speaking, but I feel like it's likely to end up back where we are now in some way.
would be interested to see it tested though.
Yeah, I wrote this solution on another topic and I could not remember what I said in the other one so I probably left something out on this one that I made. Yeah I mean the Survivor go over to the hatch and press the button opening the hatch and blip they're gone. Even if the killer gets a hit when they press that button they still get away, Save The Best For Last won't help because the Survivor just gets away, period. It forces more chases as they GO FOR the hatch instead of waiting for them AT the Hatch.
I honestly thought you were going to propose a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.
As it stands now, when 2 ppl are left, it always feels like at least one will give up on Gens and wait for his buddy to die, cuz getting out via hatch now is easier than doing a Gen with a partner. This solution would also relieve the need to slug the 3rd as the killer cuz, you know the last guy can't just jump in the second his buddy dies. This will give the killer a chance, where as now days... That 4th guy is already on top the hatch.
Oh that's cool, reset all the chests and give them a proximity Plunderer's Instinct. Even if the killer knew where all the boxes were he wouldn't know which one but he would damn sure hope it's in the basement. I hope they see this because it sounds like the fairest way to solve the issue.
You know I came up with a honestly fair way and no one even replied to it....
1 when a key is brought into a match hatch spawns as normal. Or when found it spawns as normal so keys can still be a thing.
2 hatch only spawns when the the 3rd person is removed from the game. With 2 gens done
3 at that point the survivor gets the exposed status
4 survivor uses stealth and skill looking for hatch.
5 as a killer do your job and find that last survivor turn off audio of hatch for killer
6 if a survivor camps the hatch longer then 5 seconds it closes making 3 gens to be done before u can exit
7 if killer camps for longer then 5 seconds grab is disabled and hatch and killer is show to the survivor for 10 seconds.
Sorry no one replied to yours, no one replied to mine originally so I made it an actual topic instead of a comment.
I like the Exposed status but it doesn't work because the standoff still exists. In your scenario, the Killer can still camp the hatch and still needs to camp the hatch because they're afraid of losing said Survivor so bam 3 Gens get done and the Survivor can open the door or go for that hatch the Killer is guarding. Slowly the killer's power is being taken away because they want that 4th kill, they're being punished. Either way, the Survivor is getting something for free and it's only benefiting them, yeah they're exposed but they have LOADS of options while the Killer is still hovering over that free escape hatch.
Speak for yourself. Many of us just hit the survivor, get our 300 points and let him go. No poitn wasting time with hatch standoff.
Also, your proposed solution only prolongs the hide-and-seek endgame. As a survivor, I don't mind that part too much: crawling around the map avoiding the killer has a bit of excitement, but as killer it's quite boring. What you suggest would just double the time spent looking for the last guy.
There's only one change that should be done to the hatch: this crazy idea of giving 2000 extra BP for a hatch escape should be removed. It often makes survivors look for it even when gates are open, wasting the killer's time. Now that's a bad incentive. If anything, there should be a BP penalty for a hatch escape. After all, the survivor kinda takes the easy route out.
Ah yes, the quiet lonely search for the last Survivor who doesn't know where the Hatch is, I get those but they don't usually last that long. On large maps like Rotten Fields that can be a HUGE problem with this idea, perhaps every 15 seconds the Killer gets a location similar to the Doc's giving away their approximate spot? Or maybe that perk Spies From The Shadows is made base game at that point or Whispers, the Perks themselves would still exist but at this point it would just be something added to the Killer automatically. That way the Killer has help looking for that last little mouse scurrying about.
I think we look at this whole thing very differently. If the last survivor is uninjured, I have no problem with him having an easier time finding an alternate escape. I believe that sweet 4K is supposed to be significantly harder than a 3K. And I explained my view on hatch standoff above, though I understand not everyone sees it that way.
I don't suppose devs can even consider, let alone integrate most of these ideas, especially since they often conflict each other...
At any rate, discussions like this are probably moot. There are soooooooooo many of us players suggesting/asking/hysterically demanding changes to the game
Ok I get your opinion and yes we look at it completely differently, I want to eliminate something stupid while you're pretty relaxed and can take that 4k or leave it. But the mechanics of suggestion, do you think they are balanced and could work with the changes like Whispers etc. I get you don't really care about the scenario but would those changes be more fair?
Also, if we just accept that most of our opinions are moot and ignored we might as well not have a community to offer feedback, we might as well just sit back and accept what we get, never complain because we fall on deaf ears anyway right, it's not a great life to live.
I think you are more or less trading one kind of stand off for another. Personally, I would rather have a survivor get a hatch than play immersion with one survivor wasting my time. I could play a whole other match in the time it takes to hunt one survivor crawling around from bush to bush.
In what way would this be a standoff? Yes, the killer would still have to find the survivor, but there wouldn't be any standoff like there is now. This would also HOPEFULLY deter survivors from just waiting at the hatch while their teammates are trying to finish generators. Ive seen games where one survivor will purposefully allow his teammate to die, often times even purposefully screwing their teammate over so they WILL die, so they can jump in the hatch that they spotted earlier. I actually think the suggestion given by HatCreature would improve the situation for both sides. Im a killer main, dabble abit as a survivor. While i hate when survivors get what feels like a Freebee escape after only doing 2 gens, I understand that its also impossible for a solo survivor to finish the last generator if there is no other option of escape present.
Currently, anytime it gets to the 3rd survivor going down, I as the killer must always assume the last guy is currently sitting on the hatch, or close enough to run to it as soon as his buddy dies. This results in me slugging the 3rd to have a CHANCE at the 4th, assuming i can find and down him before the 3rd bleeds. Ive had survivors DC as soon as they go down, so their buddy can jump right in. If these changes were to actually be implemented... I could just hook the 3rd guy and have time to hunt the 4th. Since escape via hatch isnt insured, the 4th would also have reason to be a teammate and help the 3rd off the hook.
Also as I explained in another thread the hatch needs to stay survivor sided.
I don't think there's a balance problem there at all. But even if I thought there were one, my main point about your suggestion is that adding a chest with a key may result in something like a "chest standoff", as someone said above.
Yeah don't want to hold you back or anything, I think devs occasionally look at these forums. I guess it's just that I'm one of the few people who think they did a very good job with changes after the Spirit came out. Self-recovery buff, healing speed nerf and many other tweaks were unexpected but moved the game into a right direction. Not an easy thing to do either: buff or nerf one side too much, and the game suffers.
If they're looking at changing the Hatch mechanic, I'm quite confident they're gonna do something unexpected, but something that works out nicely.
Either that, or I'm just too lazy to write my 6 pages essay about the necessary changes for Freddy.
The Killer couldn't camp the chest, because they wouldn't know if that chest that they're camping even has a key in it to begin with. Even if the chest DID have the key, that would simply open up the generators if the killer is refusing to move from that spot. The current hatch standoff problem is due from 2 people standing on the hatch and knowing that if either act first, they lose. This simply wouldn't result in a standoff. If you see the killer standing by a chest not moving, find another chest, or do a Gen. The mere existence of the hatch is what prevents the killer from patrolling the last 3 gens and making it impossible for a solo survivor to get the last one done and escape. If the Killer moves from the chest, assuming its the one with the key, and checks the gens to make sure the survivor isnt doing them and being sneaky...it takes like 10 seconds to search a chest. Thats by far more time than it takes the killer to check the remaining Gens for progress. In this solution, the ability to grab a survivor from the hatch would be removed in exchange for more time to find the survivor before they reached an open hatch. Theres no standoff here.
I just keep doing gens if Im last survivor and killer is camping hatch but your solution to that scenario is pretty good.
Do you want skill?
How about a skill check battle!
When both people are within 8m of the hatch, the killer can hit the survivor to activate the skill check battle. The survivor will try to jump in the hatch but the killer will grab their ankle. Both people will get the same skill checks that get more difficult.
If the killer fails a skill check, the survivor kicks them in the face and crawls into the hatch.
If the survivor faiks a skill check, the killer will yank them back and perform a mori.
This is the most fair way.
That would solve the standoff i suppose, but I think HatCreature's idea solves for alot more issues than JUST that. Plus i think in the event of a skillcheck battle like you suggest, the host, aka the killer, would have the advantage. The slightest lag could be what ends up deciding it.
Skill checks are client-side. Lag doesn't factor into it.
Oh, I hear people claiming the needle jumps. Like i said, Im a killer main mostly so...new info to me. I still think HatCreature's idea solves other problems though. Ive had too many games where the last guy is already sitting on the hatch when the 3rd guy dies/DCes and I have litterally NO chance at downing him. At the same time, Ive had too many games as survivors where people give up on actually doing the objective if its down to 2. I think Hat's idea could help with both.
If the needle does jump, that's usually an FPS issue.
.If the killer finds either the chest containing the key or the hatch then the killer can camp them. Tell me, what exactly is the difference between the killer camping the hatch when it's open vs camping the hatch when it is closed when a survivor has a key? Unless the killer is able to insta down the survivor, nothing. You still have a stupid hatch stand off.
If you wanted to actually solve the hatch stand off issue with a key then there is a way, but killers won't like the answer. The answer is to have 2 keys and 2 hatches. Then it is impossible for one killer to force a hatch stand off. That would also end the game faster since it wouldn't take the survivor as long to find either.
Like I was saying earlier in the post, once the Survivor has the key they need to be caught BEFORE they reach the Hatch. The killer is NOT ALLOWED to win at the hatch if they have the key. If the Survivor reaches the Hatch and presses the button to open it they just go in period, even if the Killer hits them once they go in, even of the Survivor is hit with a chainsaw and gets downed at the hatch they can still press the button and they just go in, this scenario does not allow a Hatch grab. Either you catch them before they reach it or that's it.
Other than that, if someone brings in a key or randomly finds a key then the Hatch grab is allowed.
Except that isn't how the game works. A survivor in the dying state can't interact with objects and killers can interrupt hatch escapes. Unless you are suggesting that a counter-intuitive exception be made that is different than everything else in the game. Cause, you know, that is good game design.
Just to calm down any survivor mains who might be having a meltdown over this topic, don't worry, nobody's gonna take away your pity escape. The devs are afraid to touch the hatch.
Why not just let the killer close the hatch? Seems to be the least complicated solution there is.
In the proposed solution, camping a chest isnt going to do any good, because theres no way to know if it has a key and the survivor could just do something else, while camping the hatch would also be pointless because the killer wouldnt be able to grab the survivor.
Yes, for the third time, that is exactly what I am proposing. take out the hatch grab, let them use the key in the downed state, I can't believe it was not clear. Yes change the entire system so this works in this instance, everything they have in this game that prevents a Survivor escaping through the Hatch WILL NOT WORK, is just taken out of the game completely in this very instance.
In the stance where someone brings in a key or randomly find one no, the hatch grab is still there and yes, technically that is a hatch standoff but keys aren't common so it would not be as common as it is now, in this particular case it would be rare and why the ######### would you even do a hatch standoff at that point unless you just wanted to spend your free time doing it which is completely ok.
I wasn't trying to be irritated, I was just baffled that I wasn't being clear, I thought I was better than that so I was disappointed in myself for not being clear.