LGBTQ+ Representation in Horror and DBD
One of the arguments I saw when BHVR announced that David was gay (As well as the Pride charms) is this:
"This is a horror game. Why does their sexuality matter?"
Or
"This is a horror game. Why are there rainbows everywhere?"
And it always makes me think...dang, this person is oblivious to the horror genre haha. LGBT+ rep has been ingrained in the horror genre for as long as I can personally remember. Ignoring subtext or potential "Well, maybe it doesn't mean that-" situations, we could always look at the more blatant examples in both classic and modern horror media.
Chucky is one of the biggest horror franchises to date. With both a gender fluid character (Glen / Glenda from Seed of Chucky 2004) and gay + bisexual characters. (Jake and Devon as well as Tiffany in the 2021 TV series It's so good please watch it season 2 is coming this year.)
Freaky, The Fear Street Trilogy, Jennifer's Body, Hellbent (A very fruity slasher from 2004), Hellraiser, The Haunting of Hill House & Bly Manor, Raw, Thelma, The Wild Boys, Knife + Heart, BIT
And we all know Frank-N-Furter from Rocky Horror Picture Show.
This isn't even close to ALL of the examples of LGBT+ representation in the horror genre. You've got Scream, A Nightmare on Elm Street 2 (I left this one out of my OG list because it's not blatantly said, however I think most people can watch this movie and read into the subtext lol.)
I hope this doesn't come across as a bait post. I wanted to genuinely explain why having openly LGBT+ characters in DBD DOES fit and is needed, as well as recommend some great, gay, horror movies and shows. I want to see more LGBT+ rep in DBD, and hope BHVR don't just come out once a year (hehe, come out.) and say a different character is this or that.
I've said it before in this forum, but I'll say it again: Give us an openly gay, DRAG QUEEN survivor! With cosmetic pieces in and out of drag! How many drag queens do you all see on Twitch playing DBD? I SEE LOTS. AND they're fog whisperers! They're all gorgeous and so kind and sweet! Contact them and take inspiration from them! Let them help you curate a character that is genuine and doesn't seem like a last second hand wave decision. (Don't get me wrong though, I love David, and I love him being gay. I'm sure the devs have plenty of tome entries and lore planned to flesh David's character out and make it feel more natural. But, it was a very sudden announcement with no build up or anything.)
There are 30 survivors in DBD. (31 counting Haddie.) and thousands of DBD players around the world. All of different races, genders, sexualities, lifestyles. So I think it would be great to have as many people feel represented as possible. It's more important than people think. I fully believe BHVR is genuine with their love and support of the LGBT+ community. I don't think they're in it for the money like a lot of companies. (I mean, David is literally a free character. If they wanted to make money they could've chosen a paid character.)
Announcing David's sexuality was actually a huge step. But I hope there's more in the future!
Comments
Clothes are (to some extent) a choice, yes. Although one could still argue that you can't really choose your taste... but I think we can all agree that fashion is also self expression, manifestation of personality and even art anyway. And I don't see, how this contradicts anything said on here. I'm a woman and sometimes I dress like Meg or Kate and sometimes I dress more like Jane and I can pick from those characters (or anyone else). So I would love to see more options represented.
Also YES to Rocky Horror Chapter. That would be the best license ever. 😍
Crossdressers are also not systemically opressed. Getting weird looks in the street is not the same as the government trying to ban basic human rights (marriage, medical care etc).
Yeah but the world consists of more than first world countries. And even in those it really wasn’t like this always
well should we also allow people who dress as animals in the LGBT community? If they do it as a kink, it is linked to sexuality. Should we add an F to LGBT for furries? maybe a P for Pet play?
I'm aware that the world is more than that, but in those places of the world, people are also not worried about what is included in LGBT or not, they are more worried about not getting brutally assaulted and legally murdered just by existing.
It is in the + in my opinion, that was the whole discussion. And the answer is yes again. If you try to find something where I go against my own words, please just stop. It is'nt worth both our times.
And to add to that drag queens are literally being attacked in "first world countries".
And in our very own community. Remember Elix was swatted not too long ago?
Well neither are asexual or aromantic people, but they're lumped in with us. What rights is someone being denied because they don't like sex or relationships? At worst it might be slightly harder to get a loan.
Heterosexuality and cisgender-ness is already 'ham-fisted' into just about everything. Why is it different with gay people?
Asexuality is still a sexuality. Crossdressing is not a sexuality or gender identity.
I just dont understand why people want to be part of LGBT so bad like it's just some kinda quirky trend. Why cant they just go crossdress and join crossdress groups instead of trying to invade a space that is for a marginalized group?
Point is there's no clear qualifier of what gets lumped into the acronym.
If it's oppression then asexuality and aromantic don't belong.
If it's based on gender ideology then L G and B are all completely unrelated.
If it's based on sexuality then T doesn't fit.
And to be honest, 2S is pretty much none of the above.
It's just denial to pretend things aren't just added for being seen as 'outside the norm,' and lines of what can and can't be added are completely arbitrary, hence why there's so many different versions of the acronym.
For me it is based on sexuality and gender identity. so LGB + A and T, which also includes nonbinary people. That's it.
I feel like you're mixing up people here. Show me where exactly I said that.
I did mixed up people here, sorry.
I meant to quote this
That wasn’t really the only or main reason for it and in David’s case, he was never said to be straight/not gay to begin with
Bestiality is not a sexuality. Please don’t spread this false information. It’s paraphilia.
I wasn’t aware of Elix getting attacked as I am not following the DbD streaming community that well. But, yeah, very good point! Especially the fact that drag queens/cross dressers do get marginalized even within the LGBTQ+ community!
So just because a straight cisgender man wants to "help" me it means I'm not oppressed and should let them in the community? That makes no sense. It just seems like you're bored of not being in a group and feel entitled in being in one you dont belong to.
Actually their announcement stated the following:
https://i.imgur.com/IDz2OSG.pngThe roster did not feature any LGBT representation. Not 'our LGBT characters were secret' or 'we hadn't announced that any of them were represented.' The roster had none. Then it was changed to.
David was not gay, and now he is.
*for you
thats the thing. It’s not you who defines it or decides who is part of the LGBTQ+ community and who is not. There are obviously many people disagreeing with you on this.
Up to interpretation.
It was never stated that every character was straight either. And I would interpret the phrase ‚not featuring representation‘ not in the way that there were none LGBTQ+ character but that there were none revealed as such for representation.
David wasn’t gay nor straight nor anything.
or… you could also say they changed Julie and Frank to be straight with their tome lore because their sexual relationship wasn’t part of the base lore.
I can't say I heavily follow the stream scene. 😂🤭 Although I admit I watch guides and some content on YouTube. But I actually saw this reported on in the media, especially as it apparently happened live. It's honestly awful, I can't imagine how scary this must have been!
And yes, I agree this thread is prime evidence of such marginalisation happening. 😉
The thing I hate about lgbtq representation is they beg for someone to be <insert letter>, they get one, I hook them and they call me racist/sexist/transphobic/homophobic. You wanted representation in a horror game. Did you think I was going to give you special treatment? I'm treating you the same way I treat any survivor. Can we just play the damn game?
ever heard of the term false flagging?
Instead of thinking about those things you should think of the game's problems (since we all play this game a bit of balance wouldn't be bad) ... I'll never understand why people consider it so important to being represented in a video game... Oh well, whatever...
I've sacrificed so many survivors either wearing the pride charm or playing David
You know how many of them ever said anything like that?
0.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen there's some really silly people out there but I don't think it happens enough to be considered an issue. Maybe 1 in every 20,000 survivors would say something like that. Probably not even that
These type of thread bring in the most replies lmao
I'll never understand why people consider it so important to being represented in a video game..
Is it really so hard to accept that people have individual feelings about topics?
also, read this thread:
If you don't mind me asking - why?
I mean - for a long chunk of gaming, characters were barely recognizable as human, let alone specific. This is what I mean by it striking me as a bit self defeating - we've gone from universal appeal to more and more granular 'representation'.
It's not a problem. It's just a bit...odd, and I wonder if it's counterproductive.
To me, a good game is universal. Tomb Raider was the absolute business when I was a teen, and I don't think anyone complained that they had to play as a woman. This idea that you can only enjoy a game if someone in the game 'represents' you...I guess I just don't understand it.
And it's not so much that people aren't satisfied - it's that people get rabid about this stuff, if it's not handled to their liking. My best recent example - look at what happened to the original Batwoman actress.
Was going to say exactly this before i saw your post
Boring
You aren't coming off as rude, I just knew that this is a sensitive subject and it kinda feels like a minefield y'know?
Don't get me wrong, I love you LGBTQ+ people because y'know...you guys are also human beings, and that's all I see, not straight, or gay, or lesbian ect, I see just normal human beings, and you guys are great for speaking your mind
I am pretty sure Lara Croft has been criticized for this.. even though it didn’t stay in memory - though I could be wrong of course. Wasn’t really invested in videogames back then. But just considering how women were portrayed in media for and how it changed. Well.
and people are getting rabid about inclusion of LGBTQ+ character in media all the time and are trying to find any thing they could complain about it. People act like there was a were it was okay and just accepted - but there never was such a time.
Who is Elix?
Elix is a Streamer on Twitch that is playing DbD (and possibly other games?)
They are part of the Fog Whisperers program afaik and happens to be a drag queen - sometimes streaming in drag and sometimes ‚casual‘ with face cam.
a lovely person at least from what I have seen
edit:
https://twitch.tv/elix
edited again for pronoun correction
And this indvidual was attacked? And where, if I might ask
I don’t know anything about that, but apparently they were attacked during a live stream. I don’t know when it was or what form of attack.
Ugh, nevermind....I thought this was a serious problem like being murdered or something. Hurt feelings I can deal with, fake problems I got no time for.
They were swatted by police after having been DDOS'ed for simply being LGBT+, as per the DDOS'er on Twitter (with tweets having since been deleted). Guns were involved and Elix's life was at risk because, you know, its a swat team who are authorised to use lethal force.
lol. Great to show your ignorance when I clearly said I don’t know to which extent?? Inform yourself before talking about fake problems.
Ah, gotcha....Nah I got a legit problem with that because I certainly believe in Constitutional rights. I was getting ready to give my idea of being oppressed, but that certainly would fit right in with my idea of oppression. Strange how we can be on opposite sides of the culture and still find middle ground.
Ignorance you say? Would you like to start a discussion about what Oppression is or isnt?
I was just talking about the fact that you assumed it were fake problems when you literally had no info whatsoever.
A cisgender straight man has no place in the LGBT community just because he likes to wear women's clothes, and saying they do is just opening a door for all kinds of fetishes. No thanks, we already get labeled with enough ######### by conservatives.
Again, crossdressing is not necessarily a fetish. And saying a crossdresser is a cisgender is also not really that accurate though i guess debatable in every case.
you are the one throwing around labels here.
Please let's continue to keep this post on topic and civil. I appreciate your help!
Cisgender is the opposite of transgender. If you think a straight cis man putting on a dress is the same thing as a trans person, that's disgusting and offensive.
That’s not what I said at all.
i still think of it more as a spectrum, I don’t see gender as something completely binary. But I definitely did not say a man putting on a dress is a trans person and I think you trying to put these words into my mouth is disgusting and offensive.
Someone who is not cisgender is transgender.
Wearing clothes that are associated with the opposite gender in society isnt the same as being transgender.
Again, this has been a problem for a long time with people confusing transGENDER with transVESTITE/crossdressers. We're just not the same. They are not under the transgender umbrella either. A tomboy is still a woman, a femboy is still a man, they're not transgender, they're crossdressers.
I am saying that crossdressers and drag queens/kings are part of the LGBTQ+ community with focus on Q and +. I never said they are LGBT people (which you still only talk about). The Q stands for queer. Not only gender-queer. And the + says it’s more than just LGBTQ people.
i don’t say crossdressers are transgenders or transsexual. They are not the same but are part of the LGBTQ+ community.
please stop trying to put words into my mouth. I never said or implied tomboys or femboys are transgender???
One just didn't like the fact that they retconned David's lore... just to make him gay
They could've taken a character that they are working on and make them LGBQT (sorry if I missed a letter)
I may sound a type of way but I don't mean it