Would a pickup cooldown be a fair counter to camping/tunneling?
Just like a 30 second cooldown on picking up the same survivor, you can still slug them and even camp their body but it just gives a delay if you just hooked them.
Just like a 30 second cooldown on picking up the same survivor, you can still slug them and even camp their body but it just gives a delay if you just hooked them.
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The counter to camping and tunneling is others doing their main objective.
true, but it would give survivors some extra time on it.
Do you like being slugged though?
Usually survivor get really salty when I do this
if it wastes more time as a killer than yes lol. I think the main issue with being tunneled as a survivor is that you don't waste as much of the killers time as a chase and helping your team with objectives. If more time is wasted then the team can succeed more effectively. Killers can also use this as bait for other survivors to come in.
That would not be the way to reduce tunneling. Remember this; a good way to make something happen is to incentivize good behavior, not punish bad behavior.
So you want to remove the only time efficient method for the killer such that you have more time for gens?
They don't need that extra time.
If the other 3 Survivors know that repairing Generators counters both of those, even 4 Generators is more often than not achieved against a Killer who does both of those.
And at that point, having 1 Survivor be dead is common anyway.
LOL!
tbh I think they need to overall increase gen timer as well or create a secondary objective or just make the maps smaller so the survivors don't have objective distance advantage.
theres already incentives, they throw so many good perks to trac the other survivors and get more bp for it, if you tunnel you barely get 13k bp also so there is a point incentive.
The problem is that you're thinking like a Survivor main trying to farm points.
delete dis
I'm thinking about it from both sides, as a killer it is way easy to get a kill from farming one survivor and typically that survivor is just getting farmed by another survivor they had no intention of saving them. If I down that survivor and have to wait, I'll go chasing around for another survivor to make the time worth it. Typically I don't camp but I will just walk 30-50 meters to give them a head start.
To which they complain they get 'genrushed' - hence their justification to camp and tunnel. How the circle comes around.
Yup, just like people going: "Omfg, i've met hundreds (srsly, hundreds) of people who were MEAN! So i'll be making my own toxic rules now. It's justified cause i'm a victim."
That's a flat out lie since there is already plenty of incentive to not camp considering you earn far more BP and emblems by not camping. So being that there is already incentive to not camp, there needs to be harsher punishment and that punishment needs to be apparent considering so much of the player base does not read patch notes. A -100 BP flashed on the screen every 3-5 seconds would be plenty. The same really needs to happen for unsafe hook rescue. People still do it all the time even with the RIDICULOUSLY harsh emblem penalty. Instead of giving the bonus points 10 seconds later, the points should be awarded in total at first and then deducted on the screen so they idiot can see they did something bad.
btw 30 seconds isn't that long, pretty much enough time to kick a gen and pallet and come back.
No, you're thinking about it as a Survivor main trying to farm points. If you were thinking about it from both sides, you'd know that Killers don't care about points as much as Survivors do.
This is the reason that incentives haven't been working on killers.> @SnakeSound222 said:
30 seconds isn't that long and it's an idea to fix a frustrating issue for solo survivors who have already been hooked and downed immediately again, you still have that survivor slugged and out of the game for a timeout this just gives a team time to evaluate saving and killer has to make a choice of camping that slugged body for 30 seconds or do something else and come back.
No, this is the reason why you and everyone who agrees with you are not thinking correctly. Just because you give someone a piece of ######### and tell them it's very important to you doesn't mean they have to appreciate it.
The idea is very poorly thought out. It makes no logical sense. It would be counter intuitive. It wouldn't solve the "problem". There is really no upside to this idea.
then what would you suggest?
So if there is a cooldown, can survivors heal the downed person and the killer just has to eat it?
Sorry, this is BS!
Also certain perks, like Dying Light, actually encourage tunnelling that poor obsession.
this would be for a survivor that you already hooked and came back and slugged and it would only be 30 seconds. I just suggested this over the other nerfs that have already taken place and might continue (kindred 3, longer invulnerablity, possible borrowed time buffs).
Additionally the survs would lose yet again more of their sense of urgency to help their fellow surv/teammate. It already happened with the extended hook time.
there is a psychological principle called loss aversion. Punishments (or losses) hurt twice as hard as rewards (or gains) of the same value. If we made a bet that if I flipped a coin and you called it in the air, and you called it wrong you would give me $10, most people are willing to play thag game starting at the winning value of $20
essentially, nerfs are far more effective at making people complain but also stopping bad behavior with minimal change to game balance.
Plenty of suggestions have been made over the years. The problem is that Survivor mains don't want a compromise solution; it's their way or the highway as far as they're concerned. Therefore, instead of proposing a concrete solution, I suggest you learn what Killers actually care about when it comes to playing Killer. I already gave you a hint in this comment.
"Just" 30 seconds??
Survivor almost lost their mind about FOUR seconds increased healing time.
That's almost half a gen done alone.
The survivor could crawl 1/2 a map during that time, making it very hard to "just come back to him later".
You obviously have no clue about timemanagement.
Because those four seconds translate into eight seconds since almost all Survivors use Self-Care. Of course, they won't admit that's why they're complaining.
So they complain about 8 seconds… but this guy wants a killer action to be delayed by "JUST" 30(thirty) seconds.
That's almost 4 times the amount.
facepalm
I didn't say it was fair or logical, I'm just explaining why they complain about the 4 seconds. I've already said that Survivor mains don't want a compromise solution - they just want to have everything their way. See: looping, healing, Self-Care, trapping specific spots, being caught, camping, "tunneling", pallets, hitboxes, windows, NOED.
I'm looking for a fair compromise between survivors getting tunneled/camped and killers who want to practice this particular playstyle because killer incentives haven't worked and I see more unhooking related buffs incoming (kindred, borrowed time, longer immunity frames). I suggested this since you'd still have a survivor being downed and out of the game, but his team would have a larger window to get that survivor back into the game and follow with the changes the devs have made for healing while downed and would proabably get survivors to get unbreakable/no mither and tenacity more frequently. Granted 30 seconds may be a bit much after a survivor has been unhooked and only while the gens still need to be completed, but the idea is to find another survivor.
Exactly. If killerstuff gets nerfed, it will get gutted in one nerf.
Survivor stuff only gets babynerfs.
Machinegun build could have been nerfed by making the 2 perks not stack, but instead they gutted both.
SC got like … what? 6 nerfs? And is still the most picked perk in the game.
Anytime killer get a buff, survivor get something in return, but never the other way round.
survivors don't need any extra time, time is tight enough for killers as it is
The problem is that, to you, a "fair compromise" means that the Survivor gets to fail at hiding and lose the chase - inversely, the Killer succeeded at finding the Survivor and then won the chase - and yet suffers no consequences (i.e., is rewarded for failure), while the Killer is actively punished for trying to complete his objective (kill) by being mechanically prohibited from doing so. This would be like if every time you completed a generator, you dropped one health state and were given the Broken status effect.
It's the same with the new unhook mechanics.
Survivor get a free exhaustion reset and invulnerability.
So killer get punished by gamemechanics, while the survivor get backed up for making bad plays.
from the time they get unhooked, so there's a 30 second timer after that where you have a pickup immun> @Orion said:
I agree with all of these. The devs are fixing some loops, I really believe they should still nerf self care to have a limit on healing and Noed is balanced. In reality the healing nerf just hit tu> @Wolf74 said:
self care really should be limited to healing 1-2 health states. I suggested this because camping and tunneling are still so rampant that the devs planned on giving free perks to survivors to counter it. They still need to fix certain loops and shrink some maps. I also feel like they should give killers indicators when survivor perks activate nearby like exhaustion perks. They are still trying to fix matchmaking as well.
Exactly. "Fair compromise" is apparently just Survivorspeak for "reward me for failure".
OP, we have suggested increased progression based on distance to the hook (rewards Killers for leaving the hook), hooks actually giving debuffs to Survivors that they can't shrug off with a massage (rewards Killers for hooking multiple Survivors), and a bunch of other crap. The main problem, as always, is you (Survivors). You don't want a solution that's actually fair for both sides (punishes the loser and rewards the winner); you want a solution that benefits you and you alone for failing, while the Killer is actively punished for playing smart/efficiently/well.
I really get mad reading this.
"Camping" and "tunneling" are just survivor combat terms, to make playing smart and efficient look like a cheap tactic.
It is not "so rampant", it is INTENDED gameplay.
Stop ask for punishment for killer doing their objective.
well as a survivor I get dead hard, so that usually prolongs being tunneled/camped. I find it irritating because the killer doesn't leave the hook and just lets the other survivors do gens while I'm doing nothing while on a hook. As a killer it does feel cheap and not that rewarding, but I end up doing it when the survivor gets unhooked as I start hunting. Depending on the gen situation I usually leave that survivor alone unless they are toxic or I keep finding them and just end them for playing bad.
On that point too, I really feel like the devs need to make stuff like kicking gens and pallets more rewarding and slightly faster without having to nab brutal strength or fired up. I feel what killers are really lacking is meaningful counter play against survivor objectives because Ruin is the only way to slow a game down if it isn't busted and thanophobia and pop/overcharge don't do enough or are situational and aren't as good of time wasters as sloppy butcher. I also think Gens get done too quickly and they need to nerf mutiple survivor progression on gens or designed more of them to be one side workable.
Why would you feel "cheap"?
You worked for that victim on the hook, you beat him, you found him, you chased him, you carried him.
Time to rake in the reward and fight of the pesky wannabe rescuer.
When was the last time you camped a hook and NO ONE showed up?
Survivor make camping viable.
You sound like a true survivor player that switch to killer every now and than and plays the entertaining party clown for his buddies.
Actually I expect EVERY survivor to be toxic, because of my experience with them. Either they will be toxic after I showed mercy. Or they get toxic in the after match chat.
Sorry, for those who are nice, but you are the minority.
it mostly feels cheap cause you know he was just being farmed, team mates will rarely bodyblock or they do it so half assed. Granted if all the gens are done I will camp one survivor to keep the game going to see if any try to save. Yeah survivors are pretty toxic, I find it humorous at times half of it is annoying complaining. My main issue with survivors is how inconsistent the matches are, you get this ridiculous swf groups all with flashlights doing the gens and just leaving or you get potatoes that dc or die quickly. I still feel like the main villain is the map system, maps are terrible or good depending on rng. I still find like 4 pallets near the same 30m radius
I agree man, I think the biggest issue is how quick the gens get done with multiple survivors on them, I think they should also nerf toolbox charges across the board. Thanophobia, pop/overcharge all need buffs imo since ruin is the only guaranteed way to slow down gen time.
Still you want the killer to get punishes for the survivor making mistakes.
How is that fair?
we need killer buffs if anything not survivor buffs