DS,BT,UB,DH
How come it's expected for the one Killer to expect and respect these perks ever game times 4 but 4 survivors can't do the same for NOED?
How come it's expected for the one Killer to expect and respect these perks ever game times 4 but 4 survivors can't do the same for NOED?
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I have no problems with Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, or Decisive Strike. Those three perks exist specifically to protect you from killer strats I can avoid simply by not engaging in those behaviors.
DEAD HARD IS THE PROBLEM.
Because NOED is not the meta.
DS: Requires you to not pick up the survivor who was pulled off the hook the past 60 seconds, as long as they haven't done anything to progress survivor states.
BT: Requires you to either not be at the hook during an unhook, or simply not hit the unhooked target for 8 seconds.
DH: Can be uncounterable, so to what degree do you need to 'expect or respect' this perk?
UB: Just pick them up.
DS + UB: Leave them slugged and let them burn their one shot at UB, or let DS time out. Either way, they're on the ground for an extended period of time and cannot help their team.
NOED: Find and cleanse all five totems and hope the killer has NOED. Failure to clear even a single totem means all effort wasn't just wasted, it was actively detrimental to the survivors' chances of escape.
Seriously, DS is the perk with the most light-weight counterplay in the entire game, and you're trying to compare it to NOED, which has by far the most overweight counterplay in the entire game.
Thats not what I mean like the counter to ds is slug if you think they have ds or bt I'd just wait it out and don't hit. My point is most of the counters involves assuming that they have said perk and playing around it and all 4 survivors can have all of them. Yet just do bones is normally countered by I'm not doing bones for something that might not even happen.
But what if you do those and non of those perk are actually in play? The same goes for doing bones is my point noed is really the only perk survivors have to respect or it can be really bad yet the average counter is I'm not doing it for a perk they might not even have.
And Circle of Healing, now. Cleansing totems is basically sandbagging your team.
I would are you pretty much have to expect at least one CoH.
And my point is that you lose practically nothing. All it takes to counter BT and DS is just to swap targets, which takes legitimately zero seconds. All it takes to counter UB is to pick the target up, which doesn't cost you any time either, since that's already part of your objective progression.
Compared to NOED, which requires you to slow objective progression by around 20%, if not more.
The only thing I'll give you, and which I've been advocating for, is that BT should strip unit collision for the duration of the Endurance effect so they can't bodyblock you when you're trying to go for the unhooker.
from the amount of complaints I just figured it was.
To be fair, it SHOULD be. And I assume it is at tournament level. I do not watch competitive DBD, but it would be even more of a joke if that was not a staple to all of their builds.
"just swapping target" is extremely wasteful because, otherwise, those perks didn't need to exist from the beginning.
Without existence of DS and BT, killers would be able to kill a survivor one or two minutes faster, which is certainly more impactful than 20% progression loss of NOED (if you decide to do bones before gate is powered, anyway).
UB is not a problem though, I don't think anyone actually playing around that perk after all.
1-2 gens left switching targets can be a huge disadvantage because you need to remove a player. If you down a survivor and the is one or more around or some one going for a save slugging is required. They remove crucial killer strategies were in one chase you can be down to 2 gens and have no way to build pressure because you have to respect said perks.
Noed punishes survivors who stay on gens and don't bother locating totems to cleanse or remember.
I wouldn't say Unbreakable is a problem, but that perk is the one that turns around games unlike the other 3 that just buy that particular survivor a bit of time. Especially if paired with soul guard as you can use it much more aggressively which is key end game.
Survivor can complete there objective in about that amount of time though and the killer has to do it 3 more times. Now if you respect noed all the gens wouldn't be done in 3-4 minutes.
And everytime a killer slugs a survivor the first time you know there thinking I hope they don't have UB.
If you think it's that much of a waste of time to swap targets, just eat the DS.
But don't complain that when you tunnel, you get hit with the one anti-tunnelling perk survivors have.
Noed punishes survivors who stay on gens and don't bother locating totems to cleanse or remember.
It punishes survivors who did 4/5 totems much harder than those who did none.
It's definitely a strong perk, but I mean, what can you do against it, or what do you need to do against it.
And if you slugged everyone at once, the chances are you CAN'T lose from that point, even if they all healed up by one unbreakable or two.
I don't really have a problem with ds untell late game when tunneling has to happen because there isn't any other real option. I will eat it if I find someone I just hooked on accident.
My point is they remove killer efficiency just like doing totems removes survivor efficiency.
I do agree they need to add a totem counter.
Honestly, I have no problem with Borrow Time, UnbreakaBill and Decisive Strike.
I always go for the person who unhooked and if I have a player who likes to bodyblock with BT then it is tunneling time. I can bait a vault to grab them, I can stack my Safe the Best on them and so on. Also BT is a very good perk because it rewards you when rescuing your teammates and using other perks like Deliverance or We are gonna live forever. I want more perks that reward safe unhooks...
UnbreakaBill follows Murphys Law: When I have it I never get to use it and when I do not the Killers slugs. However when I play Killer this never becomes a problem because I rarely slug extensively and even with Oni I have no issue with this perk. It even allows some fun build like Flip-Flop and Powerstruggle and I love that.
Decisive Strike has its ups and down. However most times I can see when a survivor have it. They never try to hide it. The fun thing is that those survivors do nothing to progress the game for 60 seconds. That is more slowdown than Ruin ever got me. Most times I just pick up that survivor while loudly saying "This is Decisive Strike and I am going to eat it."...The only time this perk bother me is when the endgame starts. However this is the time of NoeD and survivor need DS to have a chance.
Now to the big one: Dead Hard.
Honestly, I do not hate that perk. It is mostly fun and there is nothing like a survivor deadharding into a wall or dcing when I down them as Pinhead because the can not dead hard. The only thing I hate about this perk is that survivors only use this one perk and little to no other exhaustion perks. I rarely see a Lithe, Smash Hit, Balanced Landing or Overcome and I hate that part about Dead Hard. I want more different builds from my survivor, strong builds that put up a challenge for me and reward smart play. Diversity in survivor perks is one of the top priorities when it comes to my fun as a killer. Dead Hard is so overused that it kills a part of this joy...
An NoeD...well...
Where is the fun with that unless the Killer run a full endgame build with Remember Me, No way out, NoeD, Bloodwarden? The Killer downs one guy with NoeD and my team leaves. Easy. No interaction, no fun, no gameplay. Just leave when the Killer has NoeD. It does not add anything to the game for me as a survivor to do this. I also expect my team to just leave when NoeD is on. Do not rescue me, take the win and make a three man escape. I will just struggle for points. Thanks and by.
I am not even salty about NoeD. It is just a bit boring.
Sounds like a good build
I mean, if you just throw up and take the "loss" as nothing, of course it would be boring.
What does No Ed counter that survivors use excessively that is built in?
DS - slightly counters tunneling.
BT - slightly counters camping.
UB - slightly counters slugging.
All of which the killer can and are known to use countless of times.
So, I ask again… what does No Ed counter that survivors are utilizing in order to warrant not complaining about it?
Because the reason you see them so often and why they are so meta is because of those 3 things I’ve listed.
COH looking real good now, huh?? 😹
J/K
That perk needs to be launched into orbit.
I agree that (new) DS isn't anything to complain about, but NOED has the same counter that DS and BT have: just walk away and go do something else (either leave or go look for the totem). NOED doesn't do anything if you don't engage the killer unless you were the one unlucky survivor who happened to be standing right in front of the killer when the last gen popped (and then it's not any more uncounterable than DH, and only once as opposed to four times).
I ran NOED in one game today, and it was gone after I downed one survivor (who was already injured), so doing bones is a bad strat, but it's not like NOED is permanent once it's up.
Survivors just hate NOED because they expect to play like trash during the EGC and keep their win.
Meaning it's fine.
Agreed on DS and BT.
I wouldn't call DH uncounterable (except maybe for Nurse) because you can usually bait it out.
NOED doesn't require the survivors to clean 5 totems. (Beginners do that though, religiously). Usually the move is to clean the totem once it's required. After all, spawn points are known and smart survivors will remember where they found totems in the game without destroying them. The interesting by-product of this relatively weak perk, (one down, at most, if the survivors have a modicum of experience) is to prolong the game a bit.
Yesterday my team went against a very weak trapper. NOED was expected but we didn't do anything about it. We laughed with the first down confirming NOED. We proceeded to play stupidly (but having fun doing it) and he managed to get two kills.
Had we played smart we would have destroyed the totem, 99% the gates and do a 2+men unhook and got 3 or 4 escapes.
Lol with such many complains maybe is meta 🤣
BT 8 secs? What the hell?
The problem of survivor perks is that the only way to counter it are considered toxic (slugging) but the way to counter NOED is not toxic at all.
You get the problem? Much killers "are toxic" becuz your perks promotes it.Which killer perk promote you to be toxic to countrr it?
How often will you guys make up those whataboutism threads, that only show your lack of gamesense?
Or this game has two separate roles that play different and have different objectives in a pvp game. This whole idea your not aloud to complain about a problem that is on one side without it been called whataboutism is just a joke.
Where is "whataboutism"?
I can only see good reasoning to keep something that has to be played around by pretending it exists.
I don't see any "lack of gamesense" neither, can you elaborate?
You can also keep track of totems and go back to them if NOED activates. You can bring a map too. Totems exist as a secondary objective and it is supposed to offer this risk: do you rush gens and risk NOED or cleanse totems and lose progression time? Survivors are not supposed to feel safe after last gen is done. And there are many ways of countering NOED.
I would say I see it enough that it is the meta, depending on how you define meta. Technically meta is "most effective tactic available", if that is the definition you are using, then it's iffy if it's the meta. If you mean that it's seen alot, then I would definitely say it's meta. I probably see it about 1 out of every 3 games.
It should be, but many vocal survivors hard wire killers into thinking that if they run the perk, they are a BAAAAAAD PERSONNNN