Four small(ish) posts.

So basically I've been meaning to make these into long, fully-fledged forum posts that are usual of me (breaching into the 3k words each), but I really can't be bothered to put in that much effort into being so negative so I'm just going to essentially paste them all out here. This is just so I can get out all of my frustration and invite some feedback into what I can do to have more fun (saying to just change my mindset and lose continuously isn't the answer because, believe me, I've tried it).

antiloop killers

The decision to move most killer design to anti-loop no mobiliy was a stupid idea. Genuinely. It's massively encouraged the hold W strategy, prevented decent map adjustments being made, and also made survivors learn to play better. The counter to these killers is to split up on gens and hold M1 for 80 seconds, have the trial over and done with quickly, and due to their lack of movement they can't compete, but on the flip side they can also have near-instant chases if you try to loop them. Therefore maps must stay large so this counter can keep working, and it's really frustrating. Instead of fixing the core issue of map design and gen speeds, bandaid upon bandaid was slapped on until it's created a stack which can't all be ripped off at once due to the work required and effects that could have.

boon totems

When I say boon totems, I don't mean all of them. Yes, I think Shadow Step is frustrating, and Exponential could be awful with Power Struggle, but both don't seem too obnoxious. I'd like a minor hit to them, but that's it.

Circle of Healing, however- this perk needs to perish. Imminently. I honestly wouldn't hesistate to call it the best survivor perk in the game, beating out even Dead Hard, due to the utility it has. 16 seconds to heal. 8 seconds to heal someone else. It can come into play every 14 seconds and can be spread out across the entire map. "That's 14 seconds they're not on gens-" it doesn't matter, because of the time it takes for you to find and then snuff them. Even when I win, it doesn't feel fun anymore.

realm beyond

Ormond was a good change, mostly. I still hate breakable walls but I've made my peace that I'm never seeing them go.

Everything else was not. Maps do not look as good as they used to, optimisation has vanished like a receipt on the wind, the fog just looks like someone's been running a car engine for a bit too long nearby, the atmosphere has vanished, and everything is so much darker (except for coldwind, which has taken the advice of the Weeknd a bit too literally and become blinded by the lights, apparently). Old dbd had this certain charm to it's art direction, and new dbd just... doesn't. The higher poly models are nice, as are the character updates, but the animation changes and general map changes were just not it.

Also, why did you remove the blue from Macmillan, see people complaining, then seemingly out of spite quadruple the amount of green on Autohaven? It looks like a samoyed that's just been rolling on a freshly mown lawn lmao

sbmm

Honestly the reason I made this post, SBMM is the bane of my existence. A metaphorical and literal fun sponge, worming it's way into our games as proof that the devs who supported this don't play or understand their game, nor do they listen to the community. People were saying for over a year this was a terrible idea that wouldn't work, and they can all feel smug about themselves because they were right, it doesn't. There's too much to keep track of in a match, and the algorithm does none of it. Rank-based matchmaking was bad, and as a measure of skill the Emblem System really wasn't great, but they were so much better, and so much fun, than this dumpsterfire.

It only keeps track of escapes and kills. That's it. That's all it does. This took them years to decide that's the skillful criteria, except oh no maybe Hatch shouldn't count.

Y e a r s

I'm just- I cannot express how much I despise this system, and how unfun it's made this game for me, as both killers and survivors. It's forced a hypercompetitive mindset onto players, and even at lower MMR (at least with my losing streak of throwing games as hard as possible I bloody well hope I'm at low MMR by now) people have decided that they want survivors to be in the trial for as little time as possible, so it's time to either relentlessly tunnel someone as quickly as they can, or facefuck gens as fast as is physically possible, and once more it's just not fun.

That's what I'm trying to get at here, anyway; regardless of what Big Data:tm: is telling you on the success of SBMM, you have said several times in QnA Streams (I should know, I summarised them) that you listen to community feedback on how things feel in the game alongside the data. People have been telling you it feels awful and you've done, what? Forced the system onto us anyway in it's half-baked state, no more capable of determining skill then a goldfish with it's eyes shut? Not reverted the changes and instead sat back to watch the carnage unfold? You've reverted things before- think 1.9.2- and this is something that could be done on the backend so you could very easily disable it until you've got a better deciding factor than just kills and escapes minus hatch.

I'm sorry if this is hardly constructive but I just cannot physically comprehend who greenlit this and thought it was a good idea?! People were telling you it would flop, why would you implement it regardless?! It's just so frustrating to see a game I've supported for years, and has been with me as I grow up, continue to be beaten down and down again by bad decisions- one step forwards and then you catapault yourself backwards down thirty flights of stairs before landing ungracefully into a river.

Not to mention the effect it's had on content creators, who are one of the main sources for new content in the game. They clearly don't like the system- at least from what I've been hearing- and neither do a majority of the vocal players on Twitter and these Forums (I can't speak for other socials, as I don't use them, and it's entirely possible that the SBMM enjoyers are lurking quietly in the shdadows). It's made games more unfun and exposed the deep imbalances in the game's design- which is good I guess?- but these imbalances are so deep-rooted with so many bandaid perks that they can't actually be fixed without managing to break everything else.

I absolutely despise this system. It's really, really unfun, and I don't see myself playing for all too much longer.

I've finished the Rift, and I feel like that's me tagging out for now. I can't bring myself to want to play more than three games a day.

-

I took a week break, came back a couple days ago because I was feeling better, and already feel myself hating this. This game is intrinsically frustrating to play on both sides, no matter how hard I try to have fun or how many friends I play with and stream to. It's the only game that's ever kept me for this long, but I feel like bad decision after bad decision, stale design after stale design, are all pushing me away.

I really want to keep liking this game, but I'm just so frustrated with everything that I'm not sure I can.

Comments

  • Yeah this game has gotten pretty stale for me as well. I've actually dropped it for a while now.

    Even if you're doing well it's just: Down a Survivor, use an info Perk to find the next or patrol/proxy, go back to Hook if they get Unhooked and you haven't found anyone. Camp if things so south. Trying new Killers and Perk combos is sometimes fun, as long as you have the BP to get Perk loadouts setup.

    Survivor it's a lot more engaging overall with match-to-match Killer variety*, unless you get Tunneled. Even if you get stomped there's the thrill of trying to find hatch before the Killer, or trying to scavenge a Key if they close Hatch (assuming they don't slug for it)

    Kill-based MMR certainly hasn't helped, but neither has the restriction of Hatch.

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    So basically I've been meaning to make these into long, fully-fledged forum posts that are usual of me (breaching into the 3k words each), but I really can't be bothered to put in that much effort into being so negative so I'm just going to essentially paste them all out here. This is just so I can get out all of my frustration and invite some feedback into what I can do to have more fun (saying to just change my mindset and lose continuously isn't the answer because, believe me, I've tried it).

    antiloop killers

    The decision to move most killer design to anti-loop no mobiliy was a stupid idea. Genuinely. It's massively encouraged the hold W strategy, prevented decent map adjustments being made, and also made survivors learn to play better. The counter to these killers is to split up on gens and hold M1 for 80 seconds, have the trial over and done with quickly, and due to their lack of movement they can't compete, but on the flip side they can also have near-instant chases if you try to loop them. Therefore maps must stay large so this counter can keep working, and it's really frustrating. Instead of fixing the core issue of map design and gen speeds, bandaid upon bandaid was slapped on until it's created a stack which can't all be ripped off at once due to the work required and effects that could have.

    boon totems

    When I say boon totems, I don't mean all of them. Yes, I think Shadow Step is frustrating, and Exponential could be awful with Power Struggle, but both don't seem too obnoxious. I'd like a minor hit to them, but that's it.

    Circle of Healing, however- this perk needs to perish. Imminently. I honestly wouldn't hesistate to call it the best survivor perk in the game, beating out even Dead Hard, due to the utility it has. 16 seconds to heal. 8 seconds to heal someone else. It can come into play every 14 seconds and can be spread out across the entire map. "That's 14 seconds they're not on gens-" it doesn't matter, because of the time it takes for you to find and then snuff them. Even when I win, it doesn't feel fun anymore.

    realm beyond

    Ormond was a good change, mostly. I still hate breakable walls but I've made my peace that I'm never seeing them go.

    Everything else was not. Maps do not look as good as they used to, optimisation has vanished like a receipt on the wind, the fog just looks like someone's been running a car engine for a bit too long nearby, the atmosphere has vanished, and everything is so much darker (except for coldwind, which has taken the advice of the Weeknd a bit too literally and become blinded by the lights, apparently). Old dbd had this certain charm to it's art direction, and new dbd just... doesn't. The higher poly models are nice, as are the character updates, but the animation changes and general map changes were just not it.

    Also, why did you remove the blue from Macmillan, see people complaining, then seemingly out of spite quadruple the amount of green on Autohaven? It looks like a samoyed that's just been rolling on a freshly mown lawn lmao

    sbmm

    Honestly the reason I made this post, SBMM is the bane of my existence. A metaphorical and literal fun sponge, worming it's way into our games as proof that the devs who supported this don't play or understand their game, nor do they listen to the community. People were saying for over a year this was a terrible idea that wouldn't work, and they can all feel smug about themselves because they were right, it doesn't. There's too much to keep track of in a match, and the algorithm does none of it. Rank-based matchmaking was bad, and as a measure of skill the Emblem System really wasn't great, but they were so much better, and so much fun, than this dumpsterfire.

    It only keeps track of escapes and kills. That's it. That's all it does. This took them years to decide that's the skillful criteria, except oh no maybe Hatch shouldn't count.

    Y e a r s

    I'm just- I cannot express how much I despise this system, and how unfun it's made this game for me, as both killers and survivors. It's forced a hypercompetitive mindset onto players, and even at lower MMR (at least with my losing streak of throwing games as hard as possible I bloody well hope I'm at low MMR by now) people have decided that they want survivors to be in the trial for as little time as possible, so it's time to either relentlessly tunnel someone as quickly as they can, or facefuck gens as fast as is physically possible, and once more it's just not fun.

    That's what I'm trying to get at here, anyway; regardless of what Big Data:tm: is telling you on the success of SBMM, you have said several times in QnA Streams (I should know, I summarised them) that you listen to community feedback on how things feel in the game alongside the data. People have been telling you it feels awful and you've done, what? Forced the system onto us anyway in it's half-baked state, no more capable of determining skill then a goldfish with it's eyes shut? Not reverted the changes and instead sat back to watch the carnage unfold? You've reverted things before- think 1.9.2- and this is something that could be done on the backend so you could very easily disable it until you've got a better deciding factor than just kills and escapes minus hatch.

    I'm sorry if this is hardly constructive but I just cannot physically comprehend who greenlit this and thought it was a good idea?! People were telling you it would flop, why would you implement it regardless?! It's just so frustrating to see a game I've supported for years, and has been with me as I grow up, continue to be beaten down and down again by bad decisions- one step forwards and then you catapault yourself backwards down thirty flights of stairs before landing ungracefully into a river.

    Not to mention the effect it's had on content creators, who are one of the main sources for new content in the game. They clearly don't like the system- at least from what I've been hearing- and neither do a majority of the vocal players on Twitter and these Forums (I can't speak for other socials, as I don't use them, and it's entirely possible that the SBMM enjoyers are lurking quietly in the shdadows). It's made games more unfun and exposed the deep imbalances in the game's design- which is good I guess?- but these imbalances are so deep-rooted with so many bandaid perks that they can't actually be fixed without managing to break everything else.

    I absolutely despise this system. It's really, really unfun, and I don't see myself playing for all too much longer.

    I've finished the Rift, and I feel like that's me tagging out for now. I can't bring myself to want to play more than three games a day.

    -

    I took a week break, came back a couple days ago because I was feeling better, and already feel myself hating this. This game is intrinsically frustrating to play on both sides, no matter how hard I try to have fun or how many friends I play with and stream to. It's the only game that's ever kept me for this long, but I feel like bad decision after bad decision, stale design after stale design, are all pushing me away.

    I really want to keep liking this game, but I'm just so frustrated with everything that I'm not sure I can.

    I...sympathize.

    Let's go through this part by part, as you do raise some interesting points.

    • Sadly, yes. There is an arms race right now between an increasingly skilled survivor base that knows how to abuse map features and killers being given powerful anti-loop tools that isn't healthy for the game.
    • That said, even anti-loop killers can struggle on certain loops unless they also have either a way to bypass the loop entirely (Nurse, Huntress) or move so fast that they can catch up (Blight).
    • Maps, as a whole, need a significant retooling and then maybe the 'S-rank' killers can be brought down somewhat. I'd much rather see Pig and the rest of the struggling killers brought up though.
    • CoH is a nightmare and can almost counter entire killers (Wraith) simply by existing. It nullifies all attrition play. Boons as a whole are a problem because the correct counterplay (snuffing them) is more times than not the wrong thing to do, as your time as a killer is at a premium and they can just relight it. I predict that Overcome is going to be just as bad. Honestly, boons should never have gone live.
    • Dead Hard is another problem. The thing was the most meta of meta perks, quirks and all. Now, when used correctly, it's basically a third health state on a short cooldown that also feeds the killer wrong information via fake hits. By shifting the validation issues to the killer side, you've turned an already strong perk into a broken perk.
    • Some maps are just...ugly. The Game is one, as is Autohaven. I wish every map was Yamaoka - the place just oozes atmosphere and is decently balanced for both sides.
    • I know it's a bit of a controversial take (how unusual for me to have one of those!) but I like SBMM. It needs to be more nuanced on the survivor end of things, sure - and sometimes just doesn't seem to be working right (why am I still facing off with a 10,000 hour nightmare squad after 3 consecutive losses?) but I will say that, by and large, my match quality has improved as killer when compared to ranks.
    • However, it is going to be rougher on the higher MMR folks, as they now don't have as many matches against less skilled opponents - leading them to be forced into a narrow, stale meta and having to play 'sweaty'.
    • SBMM has also shone a massive spotlight on how bad the balance of the game is, with only a few killers and builds really having any sort of viability in high level play.
    • Reverting to the rank system would probably make things easier on high MMR players at the expense of low/intermediate MMR players. It's no fun having to face monster SWFs every game, but it's also no fun being thrown to the wolves.

    Honestly, Artist is going to be the deciding factor for me now. If she gets nerfed, and the game loses another potential A/S-rank killer, that would likely mean that my vision for the game is so different to BHVR's that I'd be better off taking a hiatus. If she remains strong and the mid-patch reworks Ghostface to a decent level/maybe tweaks boons a bit, I'd find that really encouraging.

  • @StarLost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/297024/four-small-ish-posts

    I...sympathize.

    Let's go through this part by part, as you do raise some interesting points.

    • Sadly, yes. There is an arms race right now between an increasingly skilled survivor base that knows how to abuse map features and killers being given powerful anti-loop tools that isn't healthy for the game.
    • That said, even anti-loop killers can struggle on certain loops unless they also have either a way to bypass the loop entirely (Nurse, Huntress) or move so fast that they can catch up (Blight).
    • Maps, as a whole, need a significant retooling and then maybe the 'S-rank' killers can be brought down somewhat. I'd much rather see Pig and the rest of the struggling killers brought up though.
    • CoH is a nightmare and can almost counter entire killers (Wraith) simply by existing. It nullifies all attrition play. Boons as a whole are a problem because the correct counterplay (snuffing them) is more times than not the wrong thing to do, as your time as a killer is at a premium and they can just relight it. I predict that Overcome is going to be just as bad. Honestly, boons should never have gone live.
    • Dead Hard is another problem. The thing was the most meta of meta perks, quirks and all. Now, when used correctly, it's basically a third health state on a short cooldown that also feeds the killer wrong information via fake hits. By shifting the validation issues to the killer side, you've turned an already strong perk into a broken perk.
    • Some maps are just...ugly. The Game is one, as is Autohaven. I wish every map was Yamaoka - the place just oozes atmosphere and is decently balanced for both sides.
    • I know it's a bit of a controversial take (how unusual for me to have one of those!) but I like SBMM. It needs to be more nuanced on the survivor end of things, sure - and sometimes just doesn't seem to be working right (why am I still facing off with a 10,000 hour nightmare squad after 3 consecutive losses?) but I will say that, by and large, my match quality has improved as killer when compared to ranks.
    • However, it is going to be rougher on the higher MMR folks, as they now don't have as many matches against less skilled opponents - leading them to be forced into a narrow, stale meta and having to play 'sweaty'.
    • SBMM has also shone a massive spotlight on how bad the balance of the game is, with only a few killers and builds really having any sort of viability in high level play.
    • Reverting to the rank system would probably make things easier on high MMR players at the expense of low/intermediate MMR players. It's no fun having to face monster SWFs every game, but it's also no fun being thrown to the wolves.

    Honestly, Artist is going to be the deciding factor for me now. If she gets nerfed, and the game loses another potential A/S-rank killer, that would likely mean that my vision for the game is so different to BHVR's that I'd be better off taking a hiatus. If she remains strong and the mid-patch reworks Ghostface to a decent level/maybe tweaks boons a bit, I'd find that really encouraging.

    Theres a big issue with your entire points on MMR, and it's that it's still based on only kills and escapes.

    Survivors can, and are, exploiting this fact to dip to low MMR to keep getting easy games. Bully the killer all game then die to EGC to keep the cycle going and keep dropping MMR. When you feel like winning, go for it, and then begin dying again.

    It has the exact same issues with deranking as RBMM did. Except it also comes with fewer positives. So lower MMR players will still get thrown into the wolves, only for their MMR to increase further and they'll then face more better players.

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666235#Comment_2666235

    Theres a big issue with your entire points on MMR, and it's that it's still based on only kills and escapes.

    Survivors can, and are, exploiting this fact to dip to low MMR to keep getting easy games. Bully the killer all game then die to EGC to keep the cycle going and keep dropping MMR. When you feel like winning, go for it, and then begin dying again.

    It has the exact same issues with deranking as RBMM did. Except it also comes with fewer positives. So lower MMR players will still get thrown into the wolves, only for their MMR to increase further and they'll then face more better players.

    Yes, I am still seeing smurfs - but way less than I was under ranks. As I mentioned, my match quality has substantially improved. Now I get them maybe once in every 12 games rather than twice in every 3.

    Now smurfing yourself down to stomp lowbies will take a good while. It was so easy under ranks than (no hyperbole) more than half of my games when I first started out were against obvious smurfs (I'm not exaggerating, you can probably trawl for my earliest threads on the forums where I posted numerous images and was told 'well, that's just the game'). If I recall, even some Fog Whisperers were openly doing it.

    I wish BHVR would pull a Blizzard and start looking for patterns of people suiciding/AFKing repeatedly, because this basically killed Starcraft 2. Smurfing absolutely strangles retention of new players.

    That said, this isn't unique to the MMR system and was far easier to do under ranks. It's a problem that is going to need a fix though.

    I will say that SBMM is setting up a nasty little conflict between intermediate/new players and veterans and I have no idea what can be done to reconcile the two. Bringing back ranks...I'd probably just leave.

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    So basically I've been meaning to make these into long, fully-fledged forum posts that are usual of me (breaching into the 3k words each), but I really can't be bothered to put in that much effort into being so negative so I'm just going to essentially paste them all out here. This is just so I can get out all of my frustration and invite some feedback into what I can do to have more fun (saying to just change my mindset and lose continuously isn't the answer because, believe me, I've tried it).

    antiloop killers

    The decision to move most killer design to anti-loop no mobiliy was a stupid idea. Genuinely. It's massively encouraged the hold W strategy, prevented decent map adjustments being made, and also made survivors learn to play better. The counter to these killers is to split up on gens and hold M1 for 80 seconds, have the trial over and done with quickly, and due to their lack of movement they can't compete, but on the flip side they can also have near-instant chases if you try to loop them. Therefore maps must stay large so this counter can keep working, and it's really frustrating. Instead of fixing the core issue of map design and gen speeds, bandaid upon bandaid was slapped on until it's created a stack which can't all be ripped off at once due to the work required and effects that could have.

    boon totems

    When I say boon totems, I don't mean all of them. Yes, I think Shadow Step is frustrating, and Exponential could be awful with Power Struggle, but both don't seem too obnoxious. I'd like a minor hit to them, but that's it.

    Circle of Healing, however- this perk needs to perish. Imminently. I honestly wouldn't hesistate to call it the best survivor perk in the game, beating out even Dead Hard, due to the utility it has. 16 seconds to heal. 8 seconds to heal someone else. It can come into play every 14 seconds and can be spread out across the entire map. "That's 14 seconds they're not on gens-" it doesn't matter, because of the time it takes for you to find and then snuff them. Even when I win, it doesn't feel fun anymore.

    realm beyond

    Ormond was a good change, mostly. I still hate breakable walls but I've made my peace that I'm never seeing them go.

    Everything else was not. Maps do not look as good as they used to, optimisation has vanished like a receipt on the wind, the fog just looks like someone's been running a car engine for a bit too long nearby, the atmosphere has vanished, and everything is so much darker (except for coldwind, which has taken the advice of the Weeknd a bit too literally and become blinded by the lights, apparently). Old dbd had this certain charm to it's art direction, and new dbd just... doesn't. The higher poly models are nice, as are the character updates, but the animation changes and general map changes were just not it.

    Also, why did you remove the blue from Macmillan, see people complaining, then seemingly out of spite quadruple the amount of green on Autohaven? It looks like a samoyed that's just been rolling on a freshly mown lawn lmao

    sbmm

    Honestly the reason I made this post, SBMM is the bane of my existence. A metaphorical and literal fun sponge, worming it's way into our games as proof that the devs who supported this don't play or understand their game, nor do they listen to the community. People were saying for over a year this was a terrible idea that wouldn't work, and they can all feel smug about themselves because they were right, it doesn't. There's too much to keep track of in a match, and the algorithm does none of it. Rank-based matchmaking was bad, and as a measure of skill the Emblem System really wasn't great, but they were so much better, and so much fun, than this dumpsterfire.

    It only keeps track of escapes and kills. That's it. That's all it does. This took them years to decide that's the skillful criteria, except oh no maybe Hatch shouldn't count.

    Y e a r s

    I'm just- I cannot express how much I despise this system, and how unfun it's made this game for me, as both killers and survivors. It's forced a hypercompetitive mindset onto players, and even at lower MMR (at least with my losing streak of throwing games as hard as possible I bloody well hope I'm at low MMR by now) people have decided that they want survivors to be in the trial for as little time as possible, so it's time to either relentlessly tunnel someone as quickly as they can, or facefuck gens as fast as is physically possible, and once more it's just not fun.

    That's what I'm trying to get at here, anyway; regardless of what Big Data:tm: is telling you on the success of SBMM, you have said several times in QnA Streams (I should know, I summarised them) that you listen to community feedback on how things feel in the game alongside the data. People have been telling you it feels awful and you've done, what? Forced the system onto us anyway in it's half-baked state, no more capable of determining skill then a goldfish with it's eyes shut? Not reverted the changes and instead sat back to watch the carnage unfold? You've reverted things before- think 1.9.2- and this is something that could be done on the backend so you could very easily disable it until you've got a better deciding factor than just kills and escapes minus hatch.

    I'm sorry if this is hardly constructive but I just cannot physically comprehend who greenlit this and thought it was a good idea?! People were telling you it would flop, why would you implement it regardless?! It's just so frustrating to see a game I've supported for years, and has been with me as I grow up, continue to be beaten down and down again by bad decisions- one step forwards and then you catapault yourself backwards down thirty flights of stairs before landing ungracefully into a river.

    Not to mention the effect it's had on content creators, who are one of the main sources for new content in the game. They clearly don't like the system- at least from what I've been hearing- and neither do a majority of the vocal players on Twitter and these Forums (I can't speak for other socials, as I don't use them, and it's entirely possible that the SBMM enjoyers are lurking quietly in the shdadows). It's made games more unfun and exposed the deep imbalances in the game's design- which is good I guess?- but these imbalances are so deep-rooted with so many bandaid perks that they can't actually be fixed without managing to break everything else.

    I absolutely despise this system. It's really, really unfun, and I don't see myself playing for all too much longer.

    I've finished the Rift, and I feel like that's me tagging out for now. I can't bring myself to want to play more than three games a day.

    -

    I took a week break, came back a couple days ago because I was feeling better, and already feel myself hating this. This game is intrinsically frustrating to play on both sides, no matter how hard I try to have fun or how many friends I play with and stream to. It's the only game that's ever kept me for this long, but I feel like bad decision after bad decision, stale design after stale design, are all pushing me away.

    I really want to keep liking this game, but I'm just so frustrated with everything that I'm not sure I can.

    I agree, with all of this.

    It feels like they keep designing killers based on things players complain about - not to band aid fix something but rather designed to cause something players hate. Survivors constantly complain about how they hate camping/slugging so they release the Twins, a killer that primarily camps and slugs. Killers constantly complaining about a hold W meta, so they release a killer with only counter being hold W.

    Realm beyond has been so disappointing. Aside from the kick to performance issues and bad addition of breakable walls the maps just don't have a horror feel anymore, they seem too clean and pretty. The old graphics had a grimey dark feel to them that helped with the atmosphere. New Coldwind is a bright daylight map, it has 0 horror feel to it.

    It's impossible to balance maps when the killers are so different - what is a balanced map v Blight isn't a balanced map v Trapper. It's the problem with most of the balance in the game though - what's OP on one killer is just right on another and UP on someone else but they try to make it all a one size fits all.

    SBMM is terrible. The anniversary event was unfun because survivors started making the game move faster because they felt they needed to escape as fast as possible to get a crown, killers responded by killing faster - it was vicious circle of both sides trying to do their objective faster than the other to the point of being miserable. SBMM has caused the same issue. On top of that just kills/escapes is such a terrible method of deciding match making. It encourages gameplay players complain about (camping and hiding) and makes the game overall not fun.

    I play casual - before SBMM I would give killers kills all the time. I would die trying to boop pig noses. I would go for EGC saves of randoms even if it meant me dying. Now I don't do any of that because I now get stuck in unfun death loops. It's not fun when my swf teammate and I are only ones doing anything - we're only ones completing gens or saving/healing our teammates when we aren't in a chase.

    In 2swf my teammate and I consistently getting 15k-20k+ when dying while our teammates will get less than 10k even if they escape isn't OK. The matches feel like a 2v1 not 4v1 because we have 2 randoms being useless - either because that's how they play or because they are obviously new. I get SBMM is supposed to give you easier match if you lose but it doesn't matter if it's 2v1 unless the killer is really bad - which in that case I just feel bad for the killer, the escape doesn't feel good if I'm bullying some inexperienced killer because SBMM is trying to give me an escape.

    I hopped on in first time since DDoS stuff on Friday, I played solo. In 5/6 matches I had the same killer, hatch escaped 2 matches then tunneled out first in other 3 - I spectated my teammates to see how they did and saw the killer end up with 4k. My MMR should've decreased while theirs increased. I was in a lobby in under a minute (which made sense given time of day) but so was this killer. I had different teammates each time. It made no sense why I would be matched over and over with the exact same killer if our MMR was moving in opposite directions. I've never faced a killer so many times in a session, maybe a back to back game but not 5/6. I stopped playing because it was not fun.

    The emblem system wasn't perfect by any means BUT it encouraged better game play. Killers that camped lost points towards their emblems. Survivors that hid all match wouldn't pip. If you did well all match, enough to pip, then you would know you'd atleast get decent randoms next match. At a certain rank you were less likely to have camping killers/hiding survivors. You had fun matches were there was more interaction by everyone. With SBMM you aren't going to necessarily have better teammates, you get whoever escaped/died - that could be someone that was all star but it could also be ones that hid all match and were useless, it's the old rainbow ranks but on purpose. They should include emblem system into SBMM - survivor camped as first kill during EGC shouldn't lose as much mmr as survivor camped as first kill at 5gen, survivor that escaped by doing nothing all match shouldn't increase same in mmr as the survivor that was doing everything else, killer that got 2k from camp/noed shouldn't go up more than killer that had 9 hooks and 1k.

  • @bm33 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/297024/four-small-ish-posts

    I agree, with all of this.

    It feels like they keep designing killers based on things players complain about - not to band aid fix something but rather designed to cause something players hate. Survivors constantly complain about how they hate camping/slugging so they release the Twins, a killer that primarily camps and slugs. Killers constantly complaining about a hold W meta, so they release a killer with only counter being hold W.

    Realm beyond has been so disappointing. Aside from the kick to performance issues and bad addition of breakable walls the maps just don't have a horror feel anymore, they seem too clean and pretty. The old graphics had a grimey dark feel to them that helped with the atmosphere. New Coldwind is a bright daylight map, it has 0 horror feel to it.

    It's impossible to balance maps when the killers are so different - what is a balanced map v Blight isn't a balanced map v Trapper. It's the problem with most of the balance in the game though - what's OP on one killer is just right on another and UP on someone else but they try to make it all a one size fits all.

    SBMM is terrible. The anniversary event was unfun because survivors started making the game move faster because they felt they needed to escape as fast as possible to get a crown, killers responded by killing faster - it was vicious circle of both sides trying to do their objective faster than the other to the point of being miserable. SBMM has caused the same issue. On top of that just kills/escapes is such a terrible method of deciding match making. It encourages gameplay players complain about (camping and hiding) and makes the game overall not fun.

    I play casual - before SBMM I would give killers kills all the time. I would die trying to boop pig noses. I would go for EGC saves of randoms even if it meant me dying. Now I don't do any of that because I now get stuck in unfun death loops. It's not fun when my swf teammate and I are only ones doing anything - we're only ones completing gens or saving/healing our teammates when we aren't in a chase.

    In 2swf my teammate and I consistently getting 15k-20k+ when dying while our teammates will get less than 10k even if they escape isn't OK. The matches feel like a 2v1 not 4v1 because we have 2 randoms being useless - either because that's how they play or because they are obviously new. I get SBMM is supposed to give you easier match if you lose but it doesn't matter if it's 2v1 unless the killer is really bad - which in that case I just feel bad for the killer, the escape doesn't feel good if I'm bullying some inexperienced killer because SBMM is trying to give me an escape.

    I hopped on in first time since DDoS stuff on Friday, I played solo. In 5/6 matches I had the same killer, hatch escaped 2 matches then tunneled out first in other 3 - I spectated my teammates to see how they did and saw the killer end up with 4k. My MMR should've decreased while theirs increased. I was in a lobby in under a minute (which made sense given time of day) but so was this killer. I had different teammates each time. It made no sense why I would be matched over and over with the exact same killer if our MMR was moving in opposite directions. I've never faced a killer so many times in a session, maybe a back to back game but not 5/6. I stopped playing because it was not fun.

    The emblem system wasn't perfect by any means BUT it encouraged better game play. Killers that camped lost points towards their emblems. Survivors that hid all match wouldn't pip. If you did well all match, enough to pip, then you would know you'd atleast get decent randoms next match. At a certain rank you were less likely to have camping killers/hiding survivors. You had fun matches were there was more interaction by everyone. With SBMM you aren't going to necessarily have better teammates, you get whoever escaped/died - that could be someone that was all star but it could also be ones that hid all match and were useless, it's the old rainbow ranks but on purpose. They should include emblem system into SBMM - survivor camped as first kill during EGC shouldn't lose as much mmr as survivor camped as first kill at 5gen, survivor that escaped by doing nothing all match shouldn't increase same in mmr as the survivor that was doing everything else, killer that got 2k from camp/noed shouldn't go up more than killer that had 9 hooks and 1k.

    I have 3.5k hours and was paired with someone with sub-60 today.

    SBMM works perfectly fine btw.

  • I will answer to any point, I will just go over them while reading.

    ANTILOOP KILLERS

    I completely agree. The concept of Killers which cannot be looped is really bad for DBD. A big part of the game is Looping, Chases are the fun part of the game for both sides. And if the Killer cannot be looped, there will be less chases, so more M1-holding from the Survivor Side. You cannot afford to go into chases with a Deathslinger or Trickster (in certain areas/on certain Maps), because you will go down pretty fast. Especially because pre-nerf Deathslinger completely ignored the Skill of the Survivor. And The Artist will be another addition.

    Meanwhile we have complaints about Shift W, which is the only way to survive against those Killers. And M1-Killers are the collateral damage of that because this also works against those. But it requires 0 Skill from the Survivor and is boring for both sides. But nothing else is possible against some Killers.

    For me, Mobility Killers will always be the most fun. This is why I enjoy to play Blight and also somewhat enjoy to go against Blight, unless they do certain Flicks (which should not be possible in my opinion) or run the classical Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer-Build.


    BOON TOTEMS

    I disagree that Boon Totems are a problem. No Boon is a problem. Even CoH is not really the problem, the problem is uncapped Healing Speed. When you stack so much stuff that you can heal in under 5 seconds, this is too much. There should be a maximum cap for Healing Speeds. But thats about it. Even for Self Heal the Survivors at least spend time to bless a Boon-Totem and for the heal itself. And if the Boon is in an area without any Gens (because they have been done), they either have to relocate the Boon OR have to waste time running to it.

    I would also let the Boon only affect the floor they are on. So no more Healing on the bottom of the Asylum when the Boon is in the upper floor. This would also make it easier for Killers to snuff them, because Survivors would not be able to put Boons in spots where the Killer has to do a lot of walking while benefitting from it on a different floor.

    Some Forum Users say that Healing should get a big Nerf, however, I strongly disagree with that. The last time this happens, there were many Killer players complaining about Survivors not healing. If healing times get longer again, this will happen.


    REALM BEYOND

    I disagree partly on The Realm Beyond. I like most Maps more than before, HOWEVER I like them less than the oldschool DBD-Style. They did an Engine Update in 2018 I think? And this Update made Maps way too bright and they did not look as good as before. When DBD launched, the game actually looked the best. The Realm Beyond made it better than the state after the Engine Update IMO. At least for most Maps, Coldwind looks horrible. But it seems like we go to more bright Maps, at least when it comes to Outdoor. The new Map which is released tomorrow also is super-bright.

    Regarding Fog:

    Fog.jpg

    This is with one yellow and two brown Offerings brought by the Survivors. You barely see any Fog. Those Offerings are pointless, because the Fog on the Maps is nothing. Which is a shame. And this is not even a Map which already got the Realm Beyond-Update.

    Regarding Optimization: 100% agreed. DBD is by far not the most pretty game when it comes to graphics and I know that I dont really have a good GPU until I bring myself over spending a fortune for a RTX-Card. However, I can run other games with way better graphics because they are better optimized. E.g. I can still run World of Tanks on high Settings with the HD-Client on at least 60 FPS on each Map. And the game is way prettier than DBD, because it is optimized. And I know I would be able to play World of Tanks with my current Setup in a few years on lower graphics, while I dont think that this would really be possible with DBD.


    SBMM

    Since SBMM launched, my Survivor Games have become worse. I dont have a high MMR as Survivor, at least I would guess that, because I dont escape often. I dont really care for escaping most of the time, I am that guy who helps another one to escape. When it initially started, I got great teammates, but now they are as trash as before. So many inefficient Survivors.

    Killer games are alright, but I feel that SBMM is sometimes not working at all. I got Baby Survivors with my Huntress two games in a row, now the Survivors are back to normal. I played one Doctor game to get a bunch of Survivors who did not even stand a chance at all, they were clearly not on my Level. And in the next game, I get my second Hook when 4 Gens are done. The second game even was on Shelter Woods, which is a good Map for Killer.

    The only real positive I had for SBMM was that I was able to learn Nurse without getting beaten too much at the start. And Adepts were super easy for Killers.

    Other than that, I dont care about the system, but it can and should get Tweaks. Kills and Escapes are a bad measurement. I have to kill Baby Survivors when I have them in my game. Because otherwise their Rating would increase and they would just get Killers who are not as nice. And meanwhile, I can do anything in a game, but unless I escape, I just lose Rating and get bad teammates.

    But, the Emblem-System was also horrible for Ranking. You had Survivors and Killers in Red Ranks who were really, really, really bad. It was way too easy to rank up on both sides.

    IMO it started to go downhill when they lowered the Rank Reset. Before that you had Potatoes in Red Ranks near the End of a "Season", but afterwards, they were in Red Ranks from the beginning. The reason for this was that someone who does not play a lot cannot achieve the same as someone who plays a lot. And, guess what - this is how it should be. Someone who only plays 1 hour a week should not get the same as someone who plays 1 hour a day. There is 0 reason why this should be the case.

    And this mentailty brought us to SBMM...

    Personally, if they bring back the Emblem System, they NEED a bigger Rank Reset and make it harder for both sides to rank up. I dont think I am good enough as Killer to be at Rank 1 every month, but still this happens, because it is way too easy to rank up. Meanwhile, as Survivor I somehow did not manage to do this for some time, I dont even know why.

    However, I doubt that they will go away from SBMM. They already forced so much on the Community and they did not care for Feedback. Dedicated Servers? Breakable Walls? (I am fine with most of them, but I dislike the general concept) SBMM?

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666320#Comment_2666320

    I have 3.5k hours and was paired with someone with sub-60 today.

    SBMM works perfectly fine btw.

    I can't see hours on ps4, but when I go in and see my teammates only have a couple achievements and it's like "kill your first survivor" or "raise character to level 10" with dates in last month while killer has 75% of the achievements, with all killer ones completed, I just wonder what could our MMRs possibly be and how is this better than ranked?

  • @Aven_Fallen said:

    I will answer to any point, I will just go over them while reading.

    ANTILOOP KILLERS

    I completely agree. The concept of Killers which cannot be looped is really bad for DBD. A big part of the game is Looping, Chases are the fun part of the game for both sides. And if the Killer cannot be looped, there will be less chases, so more M1-holding from the Survivor Side. You cannot afford to go into chases with a Deathslinger or Trickster (in certain areas/on certain Maps), because you will go down pretty fast. Especially because pre-nerf Deathslinger completely ignored the Skill of the Survivor. And The Artist will be another addition.

    Meanwhile we have complaints about Shift W, which is the only way to survive against those Killers. And M1-Killers are the collateral damage of that because this also works against those. But it requires 0 Skill from the Survivor and is boring for both sides. But nothing else is possible against some Killers.

    For me, Mobility Killers will always be the most fun. This is why I enjoy to play Blight and also somewhat enjoy to go against Blight, unless they do certain Flicks (which should not be possible in my opinion) or run the classical Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer-Build.

    BOON TOTEMS

    I disagree that Boon Totems are a problem. No Boon is a problem. Even CoH is not really the problem, the problem is uncapped Healing Speed. When you stack so much stuff that you can heal in under 5 seconds, this is too much. There should be a maximum cap for Healing Speeds. But thats about it. Even for Self Heal the Survivors at least spend time to bless a Boon-Totem and for the heal itself. And if the Boon is in an area without any Gens (because they have been done), they either have to relocate the Boon OR have to waste time running to it.

    I would also let the Boon only affect the floor they are on. So no more Healing on the bottom of the Asylum when the Boon is in the upper floor. This would also make it easier for Killers to snuff them, because Survivors would not be able to put Boons in spots where the Killer has to do a lot of walking while benefitting from it on a different floor.

    Some Forum Users say that Healing should get a big Nerf, however, I strongly disagree with that. The last time this happens, there were many Killer players complaining about Survivors not healing. If healing times get longer again, this will happen.

    REALM BEYOND

    I disagree partly on The Realm Beyond. I like most Maps more than before, HOWEVER I like them less than the oldschool DBD-Style. They did an Engine Update in 2018 I think? And this Update made Maps way too bright and they did not look as good as before. When DBD launched, the game actually looked the best. The Realm Beyond made it better than the state after the Engine Update IMO. At least for most Maps, Coldwind looks horrible. But it seems like we go to more bright Maps, at least when it comes to Outdoor. The new Map which is released tomorrow also is super-bright.

    Regarding Fog:

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/L99L0JX2OF51/fog.jpg

    This is with one yellow and two brown Offerings brought by the Survivors. You barely see any Fog. Those Offerings are pointless, because the Fog on the Maps is nothing. Which is a shame. And this is not even a Map which already got the Realm Beyond-Update.

    Regarding Optimization: 100% agreed. DBD is by far not the most pretty game when it comes to graphics and I know that I dont really have a good GPU until I bring myself over spending a fortune for a RTX-Card. However, I can run other games with way better graphics because they are better optimized. E.g. I can still run World of Tanks on high Settings with the HD-Client on at least 60 FPS on each Map. And the game is way prettier than DBD, because it is optimized. And I know I would be able to play World of Tanks with my current Setup in a few years on lower graphics, while I dont think that this would really be possible with DBD.

    SBMM

    Since SBMM launched, my Survivor Games have become worse. I dont have a high MMR as Survivor, at least I would guess that, because I dont escape often. I dont really care for escaping most of the time, I am that guy who helps another one to escape. When it initially started, I got great teammates, but now they are as trash as before. So many inefficient Survivors.

    Killer games are alright, but I feel that SBMM is sometimes not working at all. I got Baby Survivors with my Huntress two games in a row, now the Survivors are back to normal. I played one Doctor game to get a bunch of Survivors who did not even stand a chance at all, they were clearly not on my Level. And in the next game, I get my second Hook when 4 Gens are done. The second game even was on Shelter Woods, which is a good Map for Killer.

    The only real positive I had for SBMM was that I was able to learn Nurse without getting beaten too much at the start. And Adepts were super easy for Killers.

    Other than that, I dont care about the system, but it can and should get Tweaks. Kills and Escapes are a bad measurement. I have to kill Baby Survivors when I have them in my game. Because otherwise their Rating would increase and they would just get Killers who are not as nice. And meanwhile, I can do anything in a game, but unless I escape, I just lose Rating and get bad teammates.

    But, the Emblem-System was also horrible for Ranking. You had Survivors and Killers in Red Ranks who were really, really, really bad. It was way too easy to rank up on both sides.

    IMO it started to go downhill when they lowered the Rank Reset. Before that you had Potatoes in Red Ranks near the End of a "Season", but afterwards, they were in Red Ranks from the beginning. The reason for this was that someone who does not play a lot cannot achieve the same as someone who plays a lot. And, guess what - this is how it should be. Someone who only plays 1 hour a week should not get the same as someone who plays 1 hour a day. There is 0 reason why this should be the case.

    And this mentailty brought us to SBMM...

    Personally, if they bring back the Emblem System, they NEED a bigger Rank Reset and make it harder for both sides to rank up. I dont think I am good enough as Killer to be at Rank 1 every month, but still this happens, because it is way too easy to rank up. Meanwhile, as Survivor I somehow did not manage to do this for some time, I dont even know why.

    However, I doubt that they will go away from SBMM. They already forced so much on the Community and they did not care for Feedback. Dedicated Servers? Breakable Walls? (I am fine with most of them, but I dislike the general concept) SBMM?

    I always thought we should go back to old Rank Reset for a month and see if that helped.

    Rank 1 to Rank 10 is a pretty big gap. I feel like that would help keep people in the correct ranks.

    Instead, we jumped into an objectively worse situation.

  • You know something is really bad when even GoodBoyKaru is saying so.

    I agree with most things. The thing that makes it even more frustrating is that theses probably can be easily solve. Make maps better and balanced for killers, make boon totems have few uses and other faur downsides, don't let circle of healing stack with other healing perks, items or addons etc. But they choose not too leaving the game unfun and not balanced

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666334#Comment_2666334

    I always thought we should go back to old Rank Reset for a month and see if that helped.

    Rank 1 to Rank 10 is a pretty big gap. I feel like that would help keep people in the correct ranks.

    Instead, we jumped into an objectively worse situation.

    I think it would have helped. The good players ranked up faster than the bad players, so there was some form of decent Matchmaking. Not perfect, but better than "getting set back 1 color". When Rank Reset glitched and was applied two times, I had the most fun in DBD in a while.

    And just now I really question if SBMM is working. Game 2 this evening: A really good Blight, got 11 Hooks and finished the game with 2 Gens to go. Game 3 this evening - A Huntress with 1 Perk (Beast of Prey Level 1). Sure, you can argue that she might be really good with other Killers. But nope, 40 hours in total. And the first thing she did was opening one of the breakable Walls at the Badham School and getting looped by me there for eternities. Clearly a new Killer.

    How is this possible with SBMM? It cannot go from an amazing Blight to someone who basically just started playing Killer with only 1 Loss on my side.

  • You and I have pretty similar opinions, my dear friend.

    I agree with 98% of everything you've said here, my only disagreements are regarding Ormond and Character Models being good changes. Everything else we totally agree.

    At the beginning of the post you asked what could you do to have more fun. I would personally recommend selecting an old survivor, with old perks, and use either a Red Forest or Swamp Offering. The...pretend you are in a better time.

    I know it sounds...weird, but that is what I did to make the game a bit more tolerable...Eventually I couldn't take it anymore and had to leave the Fog, but it worked for a while.

  • @GeneralV said:

    You and I have pretty similar opinions, my dear friend.

    I agree with 98% of everything you've said here, my only disagreements are regarding Ormond and Character Models being good changes. Everything else we totally agree.

    At the beginning of the post you asked what could you do to have more fun. I would personally recommend selecting an old survivor, with old perks, and use either a Red Forest or Swamp Offering. The...pretend you are in a better time.

    I know it sounds...weird, but that is what I did to make the game a bit more tolerable...Eventually I couldn't take it anymore and had to leave the Fog, but it worked for a while.

    Red forest and Swamp make me want to die irl I'd rather not tbh. Like I'd take the new maps over my literal least favourite trio (Swamp, forest, haddonhell)

  • @Aven_Fallen said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666386#Comment_2666386

    I think it would have helped. The good players ranked up faster than the bad players, so there was some form of decent Matchmaking. Not perfect, but better than "getting set back 1 color". When Rank Reset glitched and was applied two times, I had the most fun in DBD in a while.

    And just now I really question if SBMM is working. Game 2 this evening: A really good Blight, got 11 Hooks and finished the game with 2 Gens to go. Game 3 this evening - A Huntress with 1 Perk (Beast of Prey Level 1). Sure, you can argue that she might be really good with other Killers. But nope, 40 hours in total. And the first thing she did was opening one of the breakable Walls at the Badham School and getting looped by me there for eternities. Clearly a new Killer.

    How is this possible with SBMM? It cannot go from an amazing Blight to someone who basically just started playing Killer with only 1 Loss on my side.

    Yep.

    Me and my friend played against a 3K hour Nemesis with Ruin, Undying, NOED and No Way Out who was running Marvin's Blood.

    We both have 2K - 4K hours, so pretty good match so far.

    Our Meg had 22 minutes in the game and Dwight had 6 hours.



    i know I'm bad but I refuse to believe I'm THAT bad

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666475#Comment_2666475

    Yep.

    Me and my friend played against a 3K hour Nemesis with Ruin, Undying, NOED and No Way Out who was running Marvin's Blood.

    We both have 2K - 4K hours, so pretty good match so far.

    Our Meg had 22 minutes in the game and Dwight had 6 hours.

    i know I'm bad but I refuse to believe I'm THAT bad

    I am almost certain that the starting MMR given to new players is more "average", both to give a brutal experience to newcoming Survivors (which fits thematically), and to prevent smurfing from being that effective.

  • @AnObserver said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666526#Comment_2666526

    I am almost certain that the starting MMR given to new players is more "average", both to give a brutal experience to newcoming Survivors (which fits thematically), and to prevent smurfing from being that effective.

    MMR works fine for new players.

    https://twitter.com/Karu_TC/status/1465354344002469888?t=9iSniIsRUDRxVrelP0Yc3A&s=19

    (this is in no way meant to shame the Trapper or reflect negatively in any way)

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666475#Comment_2666475

    Yep.

    Me and my friend played against a 3K hour Nemesis with Ruin, Undying, NOED and No Way Out who was running Marvin's Blood.

    We both have 2K - 4K hours, so pretty good match so far.

    Our Meg had 22 minutes in the game and Dwight had 6 hours.

    i know I'm bad but I refuse to believe I'm THAT bad

    To be fair though, you play console with Crossplay off. You are going to have...all sorts of matchups due to prolonged queue times.

    @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666533#Comment_2666533

    MMR works fine for new players.

    https://twitter.com/Karu_TC/status/1465354344002469888?t=9iSniIsRUDRxVrelP0Yc3A&s=19

    (this is in no way meant to shame the Trapper or reflect negatively in any way)

    Yeah tagging new players with 'middle' MMR is ridiculous.

  • @StarLost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666526#Comment_2666526

    To be fair though, you play console with Crossplay off. You are going to have...all sorts of matchups due to prolonged queue times.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666540#Comment_2666540

    Yeah tagging new players with 'middle' MMR is ridiculous.

    Not for Survivor queues.

    And that queue was instant.

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666496#Comment_2666496

    Red forest and Swamp make me want to die irl I'd rather not tbh. Like I'd take the new maps over my literal least favourite trio (Swamp, forest, haddonhell)

    That is very unfortunate. This suggestion really helped me during my final days.

  • I do agree with a lot of the criticism here, I am afraid that the Artist will release without any further changes, making her potentially quite unfun to go against, Circle of Healing is pretty frustrating to go against, and the SBMM really wasn't a success. But one thing I disagree on are the maps. I think they definitely look better than they used to, and I find them to have noticeably better atmosphere than before their rework. I just wish they actually would have received many more balance changes, that actually made these maps balanced.

  • @Pulsar said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666579#Comment_2666579

    Not for Survivor queues.

    And that queue was instant.

    That's so odd. Offpeak my survivor queue can run well over 10 minutes, peak it's more like 5. And that's with crossplay on. Killer is about 60-90 seconds offpeak, 10-30 peak.

    The only time I get instant queues are those periods where the entire SBMM system seems to be offline, and then - yes, it's fun times at shenanigans matchup wise.

  • I just want Haddonfield, Red forest and Backwater swamp to be updated

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666235#Comment_2666235

    Theres a big issue with your entire points on MMR, and it's that it's still based on only kills and escapes.

    Survivors can, and are, exploiting this fact to dip to low MMR to keep getting easy games. Bully the killer all game then die to EGC to keep the cycle going and keep dropping MMR. When you feel like winning, go for it, and then begin dying again.

    It has the exact same issues with deranking as RBMM did. Except it also comes with fewer positives. So lower MMR players will still get thrown into the wolves, only for their MMR to increase further and they'll then face more better players.

    yeah, kills v. escapes only works for killers.

    why not use match grades or something, accounting for how long you were in the trial.

  • @StarLost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666586#Comment_2666586

    That's so odd. Offpeak my survivor queue can run well over 10 minutes, peak it's more like 5. And that's with crossplay on. Killer is about 60-90 seconds offpeak, 10-30 peak.

    The only time I get instant queues are those periods where the entire SBMM system seems to be offline, and then - yes, it's fun times at shenanigans matchup wise.

    Alot of console has turned off crossplay due to performance issues and now hackers. On ps4 if I play survivor during the day my waits are at most a couple minutes but more often survivor is instant while killer will be 5ish minutes. Around 7pm my time it switches - killer waits are quick while survivor are slow. Funny enough it has been that way since not long after crossplay was introduced. Aside from some weird instances recently with SBMM, in the time I've had crossplay off I rarely run into the same players so there's plenty with it off to avoid running into eachother.

  • @Bennett_They1Them said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666244#Comment_2666244

    yeah, kills v. escapes only works for killers.

    why not use match grades or something, accounting for how long you were in the trial.

    I'm not averse to this idea either.

    @bm33 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666885#Comment_2666885

    Alot of console has turned off crossplay due to performance issues and now hackers. On ps4 if I play survivor during the day my waits are at most a couple minutes but more often survivor is instant while killer will be 5ish minutes. Around 7pm my time it switches - killer waits are quick while survivor are slow. Funny enough it has been that way since not long after crossplay was introduced. Aside from some weird instances recently with SBMM, in the time I've had crossplay off I rarely run into the same players so there's plenty with it off to avoid running into eachother.

    Man, that's weird. I have no idea why that would be. It's totally inverted for me.

  • @StarLost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666949#Comment_2666949

    I'm not averse to this idea either.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667159#Comment_2667159

    Man, that's weird. I have no idea why that would be. It's totally inverted for me.

    I think it's because console players that keep crossplay on tend to be survivors so there's more survivors total from all platforms with crossplay on making the waits worse. Prior to crossplay being added my waits were worse as survivor, now just enough have crossplay on to make my crossplay off waits decent.

    I think with PC not many turn off crossplay which is why if you turn it off the waits are worse - less people to match with.

  • Let me introduce ONE perk that equal to 4 Self-care + 4 We will make it. And Killer not even able to permanently destroy it.

  • @C3Tooth said:

    Let me introduce ONE perk that equal to 4 Self-care + 4 We will make it. And Killer not even able to permanently destroy it.

    Don't forget the other stuff it gives, like:

    • Global rallying point (like the map add-on, but more visible)
    • Exact location of totem for the entire team (in case it gets snuffed); and
    • That its "We'll Make It!" effect for some reason applies to its Self-Care effect

    I still don't know why one perk is allowed to be so good, even if it did had some outstanding negative to it (which it doesn't currently).

    ---

    And the worst part is I love using it in all of my survivor builds, so I don't want it nerfed as badly as I should.

  • @Beaburd said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667336#Comment_2667336

    Don't forget the other stuff it gives, like:

    • Global rallying point (like the map add-on, but more visible)
    • Exact location of totem for the entire team (in case it gets snuffed); and
    • That its "We'll Make It!" effect for some reason applies to its Self-Care effect

    I still don't know why one perk is allowed to be so good, even if it did had some outstanding negative to it (which it doesn't currently).

    ---

    And the worst part is I love using it in all of my survivor builds, so I don't want it nerfed as badly as I should.

    I recognize the utilities Boon gives beside the effect.

    I was being pushed away from a Gen in the Game, then later I could return to that Gen immediately because there was a Boon near by, which pinpoint location of my current Gen.

    The Boon aura give the whole team totem location, so they can cleanse later instantly when Noed happens.

    The moment Boon get into effect, it gives the whole team info that a teammate was there.

    The moment Boon got snuffed, it gives the whole team info that Killer was there, and able to make a right direction when Terror radius coming.

    Yes...

  • @C3Tooth said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667362#Comment_2667362

    I recognize the utilities Boon gives beside the effect.

    I was being pushed away from a Gen in the Game, then later I could return to that Gen immediately because there was a Boon near by, which pinpoint location of my current Gen.

    The Boon aura give the whole team totem location, so they can cleanse later instantly when Noed happens.

    The moment Boon get into effect, it gives the whole team info that a teammate was there.

    The moment Boon got snuffed, it gives the whole team info that Killer was there, and able to make a right direction when Terror radius coming.

    Yes...

    Good catch, I completely failed to recognize the fact that it immediately gives information on the killer's whereabouts.

    Which is funny, because every time I use it and it gets snuffed I keep telling myself: "Oh I guess the killer is there."

    I hate that I love this perk so much.

  • Words cannot express how much I agree with you.

    New killers are making the game frustrating (To a point where I just DC against every trickster I see) and usually add nothing new to the game

    Long standing balance issues (maps, nurse, objective speed etc)

    MMR making the game more sweaty and annoying when there was no need for it anyway

    The realm beyond literally killing the games unique artstyle and destroying the atmosphere.

    It just isn’t fun anymore and I feel like my time in game is wasted. This isn’t the dbd I fell in love with in 2019 and I’ll probably never enjoy it like that again

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    So basically I've been meaning to make these into long, fully-fledged forum posts that are usual of me (breaching into the 3k words each), but I really can't be bothered to put in that much effort into being so negative so I'm just going to essentially paste them all out here. This is just so I can get out all of my frustration and invite some feedback into what I can do to have more fun (saying to just change my mindset and lose continuously isn't the answer because, believe me, I've tried it).

    antiloop killers

    The decision to move most killer design to anti-loop no mobiliy was a stupid idea. Genuinely. It's massively encouraged the hold W strategy, prevented decent map adjustments being made, and also made survivors learn to play better. The counter to these killers is to split up on gens and hold M1 for 80 seconds, have the trial over and done with quickly, and due to their lack of movement they can't compete, but on the flip side they can also have near-instant chases if you try to loop them. Therefore maps must stay large so this counter can keep working, and it's really frustrating. Instead of fixing the core issue of map design and gen speeds, bandaid upon bandaid was slapped on until it's created a stack which can't all be ripped off at once due to the work required and effects that could have.

    boon totems

    When I say boon totems, I don't mean all of them. Yes, I think Shadow Step is frustrating, and Exponential could be awful with Power Struggle, but both don't seem too obnoxious. I'd like a minor hit to them, but that's it.

    Circle of Healing, however- this perk needs to perish. Imminently. I honestly wouldn't hesistate to call it the best survivor perk in the game, beating out even Dead Hard, due to the utility it has. 16 seconds to heal. 8 seconds to heal someone else. It can come into play every 14 seconds and can be spread out across the entire map. "That's 14 seconds they're not on gens-" it doesn't matter, because of the time it takes for you to find and then snuff them. Even when I win, it doesn't feel fun anymore.

    realm beyond

    Ormond was a good change, mostly. I still hate breakable walls but I've made my peace that I'm never seeing them go.

    Everything else was not. Maps do not look as good as they used to, optimisation has vanished like a receipt on the wind, the fog just looks like someone's been running a car engine for a bit too long nearby, the atmosphere has vanished, and everything is so much darker (except for coldwind, which has taken the advice of the Weeknd a bit too literally and become blinded by the lights, apparently). Old dbd had this certain charm to it's art direction, and new dbd just... doesn't. The higher poly models are nice, as are the character updates, but the animation changes and general map changes were just not it.

    Also, why did you remove the blue from Macmillan, see people complaining, then seemingly out of spite quadruple the amount of green on Autohaven? It looks like a samoyed that's just been rolling on a freshly mown lawn lmao

    sbmm

    Honestly the reason I made this post, SBMM is the bane of my existence. A metaphorical and literal fun sponge, worming it's way into our games as proof that the devs who supported this don't play or understand their game, nor do they listen to the community. People were saying for over a year this was a terrible idea that wouldn't work, and they can all feel smug about themselves because they were right, it doesn't. There's too much to keep track of in a match, and the algorithm does none of it. Rank-based matchmaking was bad, and as a measure of skill the Emblem System really wasn't great, but they were so much better, and so much fun, than this dumpsterfire.

    It only keeps track of escapes and kills. That's it. That's all it does. This took them years to decide that's the skillful criteria, except oh no maybe Hatch shouldn't count.

    Y e a r s

    I'm just- I cannot express how much I despise this system, and how unfun it's made this game for me, as both killers and survivors. It's forced a hypercompetitive mindset onto players, and even at lower MMR (at least with my losing streak of throwing games as hard as possible I bloody well hope I'm at low MMR by now) people have decided that they want survivors to be in the trial for as little time as possible, so it's time to either relentlessly tunnel someone as quickly as they can, or facefuck gens as fast as is physically possible, and once more it's just not fun.

    That's what I'm trying to get at here, anyway; regardless of what Big Data:tm: is telling you on the success of SBMM, you have said several times in QnA Streams (I should know, I summarised them) that you listen to community feedback on how things feel in the game alongside the data. People have been telling you it feels awful and you've done, what? Forced the system onto us anyway in it's half-baked state, no more capable of determining skill then a goldfish with it's eyes shut? Not reverted the changes and instead sat back to watch the carnage unfold? You've reverted things before- think 1.9.2- and this is something that could be done on the backend so you could very easily disable it until you've got a better deciding factor than just kills and escapes minus hatch.

    I'm sorry if this is hardly constructive but I just cannot physically comprehend who greenlit this and thought it was a good idea?! People were telling you it would flop, why would you implement it regardless?! It's just so frustrating to see a game I've supported for years, and has been with me as I grow up, continue to be beaten down and down again by bad decisions- one step forwards and then you catapault yourself backwards down thirty flights of stairs before landing ungracefully into a river.

    Not to mention the effect it's had on content creators, who are one of the main sources for new content in the game. They clearly don't like the system- at least from what I've been hearing- and neither do a majority of the vocal players on Twitter and these Forums (I can't speak for other socials, as I don't use them, and it's entirely possible that the SBMM enjoyers are lurking quietly in the shdadows). It's made games more unfun and exposed the deep imbalances in the game's design- which is good I guess?- but these imbalances are so deep-rooted with so many bandaid perks that they can't actually be fixed without managing to break everything else.

    I absolutely despise this system. It's really, really unfun, and I don't see myself playing for all too much longer.

    I've finished the Rift, and I feel like that's me tagging out for now. I can't bring myself to want to play more than three games a day.

    -

    I took a week break, came back a couple days ago because I was feeling better, and already feel myself hating this. This game is intrinsically frustrating to play on both sides, no matter how hard I try to have fun or how many friends I play with and stream to. It's the only game that's ever kept me for this long, but I feel like bad decision after bad decision, stale design after stale design, are all pushing me away.

    I really want to keep liking this game, but I'm just so frustrated with everything that I'm not sure I can.

    Agee with you.

    "Gens pop too fast" - lack of mobility and map control. Slow moving killers have bad time now.

    Boons are foul sorcery and witchcraft that must no exit in... such dark place as Entity's realm. CoH ruins builds and tactics that exited for years. I'm tired with amount of second chances survivors have. Once hex is gone, it's gone, but somehow boons are just return. 14 sec of "not doing the gens" is nothing when all 4 survivors instantly heal up and undo all the killers work done in two minutes.

    Since using VPN I have a luxury to abort the game if I hear 3 boons done at the start of the game. Because there is no reason to try, no perk, power and amount of gen regression can't save you from brutal defeat at the hands of toxic bug abusers. And CoH is the worst bug in the game.

    Some maps are now furstating, guess I like the old ones. RPD is good by design, unique in it's idea, but not fun to play.

    MMR is strange. Sometimes you can get a bunch of contrast - two good players, that loop you around half map, are paired by two newbies, who seen Nemesis for the first time and don't know what to do, even to the point of staying near the hook to quickly end their suffering. First 2 minutes, minus 2 newbies, next 7 minutes chasing two good players who have no chances of doings gens because you don't want to be easy on them. Match result - 4 sacrificed, your MMR goes up. Good players go down, to face newbies who forget to check is the game is started already. Hello long wait times. Okay, I once started quque, got phone call and by the time I returned to PC 3 gens was done already, yet people was running around me... and got brutally murdered. Guess my MMR went up after AFK for 3 minutes and 4 sacrafices.

  • @Phasmamain said:

    Words cannot express how much I agree with you.

    New killers are making the game frustrating (To a point where I just DC against every trickster I see) and usually add nothing new to the game

    Long standing balance issues (maps, nurse, objective speed etc)

    MMR making the game more sweaty and annoying when there was no need for it anyway

    The realm beyond literally killing the games unique artstyle and destroying the atmosphere.

    It just isn’t fun anymore and I feel like my time in game is wasted. This isn’t the dbd I fell in love with in 2019 and I’ll probably never enjoy it like that again

    It is with great sadness that I say this, my friend, but...welcome to my world.

  • I wholeheartedly agree with your first three points!

    1. For me Antiloop takes all the fun of the chase away.
    2. I hate Shadowstep more than Circle of Healing because people just disappear. I also hate Circle of Healing.
    3. Realm Beyond. Yes, I want realistic low lying fog on the floor not whatever this unrealistic car pollution effect is. I wish the reworks looked half as good as the artwork previews make them out to be.

    Well done on all three of your first three points!

  • @GeneralV said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667537#Comment_2667537

    It is with great sadness that I say this, my friend, but...welcome to my world.

    Yeah I have sadly. But hey at least I was there when it was good

  • @Phasmamain said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667626#Comment_2667626

    Yeah I have sadly. But hey at least I was there when it was good

    Yeah, the good part was that you were here when the game was actually good. Thankfully, so was I.

    Perhaps, one day, DBD will return to be the masterpiece it once was.

    At least we hope it will.

  • @JawsIsTheNextKiller said:

    I wholeheartedly agree with your first three points!

    1. For me Antiloop takes all the fun of the chase away.
    2. I hate Shadowstep more than Circle of Healing because people just disappear. I also hate Circle of Healing.
    3. Realm Beyond. Yes, I want realistic low lying fog on the floor not whatever this unrealistic car pollution effect is. I wish the reworks looked half as good as the artwork previews make them out to be.

    Well done on all three of your first three points!

    I'm afraid as to why SBMM hasn't been included in the points Mr. Jaws

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    So basically I've been meaning to make these into long, fully-fledged forum posts that are usual of me (breaching into the 3k words each), but I really can't be bothered to put in that much effort into being so negative so I'm just going to essentially paste them all out here. This is just so I can get out all of my frustration and invite some feedback into what I can do to have more fun (saying to just change my mindset and lose continuously isn't the answer because, believe me, I've tried it).

    antiloop killers

    The decision to move most killer design to anti-loop no mobiliy was a stupid idea. Genuinely. It's massively encouraged the hold W strategy, prevented decent map adjustments being made, and also made survivors learn to play better. The counter to these killers is to split up on gens and hold M1 for 80 seconds, have the trial over and done with quickly, and due to their lack of movement they can't compete, but on the flip side they can also have near-instant chases if you try to loop them. Therefore maps must stay large so this counter can keep working, and it's really frustrating. Instead of fixing the core issue of map design and gen speeds, bandaid upon bandaid was slapped on until it's created a stack which can't all be ripped off at once due to the work required and effects that could have.

    boon totems

    When I say boon totems, I don't mean all of them. Yes, I think Shadow Step is frustrating, and Exponential could be awful with Power Struggle, but both don't seem too obnoxious. I'd like a minor hit to them, but that's it.

    Circle of Healing, however- this perk needs to perish. Imminently. I honestly wouldn't hesistate to call it the best survivor perk in the game, beating out even Dead Hard, due to the utility it has. 16 seconds to heal. 8 seconds to heal someone else. It can come into play every 14 seconds and can be spread out across the entire map. "That's 14 seconds they're not on gens-" it doesn't matter, because of the time it takes for you to find and then snuff them. Even when I win, it doesn't feel fun anymore.

    realm beyond

    Ormond was a good change, mostly. I still hate breakable walls but I've made my peace that I'm never seeing them go.

    Everything else was not. Maps do not look as good as they used to, optimisation has vanished like a receipt on the wind, the fog just looks like someone's been running a car engine for a bit too long nearby, the atmosphere has vanished, and everything is so much darker (except for coldwind, which has taken the advice of the Weeknd a bit too literally and become blinded by the lights, apparently). Old dbd had this certain charm to it's art direction, and new dbd just... doesn't. The higher poly models are nice, as are the character updates, but the animation changes and general map changes were just not it.

    Also, why did you remove the blue from Macmillan, see people complaining, then seemingly out of spite quadruple the amount of green on Autohaven? It looks like a samoyed that's just been rolling on a freshly mown lawn lmao

    sbmm

    Honestly the reason I made this post, SBMM is the bane of my existence. A metaphorical and literal fun sponge, worming it's way into our games as proof that the devs who supported this don't play or understand their game, nor do they listen to the community. People were saying for over a year this was a terrible idea that wouldn't work, and they can all feel smug about themselves because they were right, it doesn't. There's too much to keep track of in a match, and the algorithm does none of it. Rank-based matchmaking was bad, and as a measure of skill the Emblem System really wasn't great, but they were so much better, and so much fun, than this dumpsterfire.

    It only keeps track of escapes and kills. That's it. That's all it does. This took them years to decide that's the skillful criteria, except oh no maybe Hatch shouldn't count.

    Y e a r s

    I'm just- I cannot express how much I despise this system, and how unfun it's made this game for me, as both killers and survivors. It's forced a hypercompetitive mindset onto players, and even at lower MMR (at least with my losing streak of throwing games as hard as possible I bloody well hope I'm at low MMR by now) people have decided that they want survivors to be in the trial for as little time as possible, so it's time to either relentlessly tunnel someone as quickly as they can, or facefuck gens as fast as is physically possible, and once more it's just not fun.

    That's what I'm trying to get at here, anyway; regardless of what Big Data:tm: is telling you on the success of SBMM, you have said several times in QnA Streams (I should know, I summarised them) that you listen to community feedback on how things feel in the game alongside the data. People have been telling you it feels awful and you've done, what? Forced the system onto us anyway in it's half-baked state, no more capable of determining skill then a goldfish with it's eyes shut? Not reverted the changes and instead sat back to watch the carnage unfold? You've reverted things before- think 1.9.2- and this is something that could be done on the backend so you could very easily disable it until you've got a better deciding factor than just kills and escapes minus hatch.

    I'm sorry if this is hardly constructive but I just cannot physically comprehend who greenlit this and thought it was a good idea?! People were telling you it would flop, why would you implement it regardless?! It's just so frustrating to see a game I've supported for years, and has been with me as I grow up, continue to be beaten down and down again by bad decisions- one step forwards and then you catapault yourself backwards down thirty flights of stairs before landing ungracefully into a river.

    Not to mention the effect it's had on content creators, who are one of the main sources for new content in the game. They clearly don't like the system- at least from what I've been hearing- and neither do a majority of the vocal players on Twitter and these Forums (I can't speak for other socials, as I don't use them, and it's entirely possible that the SBMM enjoyers are lurking quietly in the shdadows). It's made games more unfun and exposed the deep imbalances in the game's design- which is good I guess?- but these imbalances are so deep-rooted with so many bandaid perks that they can't actually be fixed without managing to break everything else.

    I absolutely despise this system. It's really, really unfun, and I don't see myself playing for all too much longer.

    I've finished the Rift, and I feel like that's me tagging out for now. I can't bring myself to want to play more than three games a day.

    -

    I took a week break, came back a couple days ago because I was feeling better, and already feel myself hating this. This game is intrinsically frustrating to play on both sides, no matter how hard I try to have fun or how many friends I play with and stream to. It's the only game that's ever kept me for this long, but I feel like bad decision after bad decision, stale design after stale design, are all pushing me away.

    I really want to keep liking this game, but I'm just so frustrated with everything that I'm not sure I can.

    Feel My Pain... Suffer what people have been telling me straight for the whole year reguarding SBMM.. "Sbmm will be a Healthy change,Don't judge it too quickly my guy"

    FFS I'LL JUDGE IT BECAUSE IT'S NOT NEEDED IN THIS ######### GAME,

    i've said it time and again, Bhvr doesn't listen and when they do, they screw it up.. look at the changes.. colorblind mode took em like 5 years,

    Healthy Killer Changes? So nerfing slinger is what they wanted? When will he get buffed?! (Hint: Never)

    Sbmm has burnt me out from even wanting to play this shite game.. i Used to have fun with dbd, used to play this game atleast 8-12-16 hell sometimes even 24 hours! and i used to love playing dbd... Now?

    Pfh.. i don't dare wanting to play this game again, i literally don't like what they're doing to the killers... Like when will Survivor be nerfed finally? (also Hint: Never) They cater to survivor more than i could cater about having to touch grass, (The meme is funny.. leave me alone)

    Sorry to hear about what yer going through my boy.. hoping that Vhs gets released soon so i can play a better, Healthier game.. with the devs actively listening, rather than...

    "Hey Guys, We're releasing the New chapter! But before we do... We have a New event coming to dead by daylight! with alot of cosmetics!
    But.. We heared your questions: "Can we get them for free?" Only one outfit will be free! the Rest you'll have to shell out 10$ per outfit!!
    Make sure you buy our Cosmetics so we can continue making more!
    

    Literally it's what i see from dbd at this point

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667693#Comment_2667693

    I'm afraid as to why SBMM hasn't been included in the points Mr. Jaws

    Because I wanted you to know how those three points were spot on!

    😀