Open question to everybody
You see, i always said that teabagging is not neceseraly toxic. it is just a way to get the killer worked up so that he gets distracted and lose his focus. and i allways thought that camping and tunneling wasnt toxic either. it is bloody unfair and unsporty and in terms of points a shot in your own knee. But not toxic. what i allways considerd to be toxic is teebagging at the exitgate and kebabingbing (hittting a hooked or downed surviver). The thing is though for something to be toxic it needs a toxic intention, like "look at me im great and you are garbage" when teabagging or kebabing. And i allways considerd that to be the case most of the time. that was until i saw somebady teabagging a... wait for it... Zombie. "What the heck? why would you teabag a Zombie?" was my reaction. And it made me thinking: What do you actualy think or what is your actual intention when being toxic (exit gate and kebab only)? is it more like a ritual, basicly saying goodbye or are you just hooked for some extra points? Or maybe you are just legit being "you are crap i am awsome" kind of p erson. What is it that makes you twerk?
Comments
As I said, there's something about this generation that makes a lot of them incredibly self-centered and more willing to spend time and energy on justifying them being jerks than just not being jerks.
It's not true of all millennials, sure - but it's damn well true of enough of them.
Pretty sure by most generational measures you're getting me in that grouping as well. :p
I'm not sure it's a generational difference as much as demographic representation in various places.
Naturally, not all millennials are like that.
But I've read multiple articles (and even the odd paper) on generational differences, and middle-upper class millennials (on average) tend toward a prolonged adolescent mindset, solipsism, apathy and a lack of self control compared to even Gen-X. It's sadly sort of a downward slope.
The reasons why...now that's an interesting discussion.
And yet maybe the fact that you feel the need to do this immature act could use a lesson in growing up?
What is third?
I'll do this if I think the killer played like a hoebag.
Can you define "hoebag" for me?
uhhh... they forgot they hit you the second time.
that or they've decided to cap, I guess.
I am only toxic if the other side was toxic first.
I have attacked various objects in different maps and found out they all sound different. I had survivors follow me around listening as well.
Ah, the timeless no you argument, the sign of a mature and well adjusted individual. I have seen the error of my ways. No longer shall I crouch, as I dare not ruin the safe space of video games. I will refrain from hurting the feelings of snowflakes with my display of mastery over the cntrl key, thank you kind sir.
Well, seriously kind sir, if you find it so immature that I get offended by your immature act, why do it at all? You're doing something you know is dumb, you know people consider disrespectful (whether you do or not) and yet you continue to do it because you believe that your opinion is the only one that matters. Selfish, stupid and immature.
You can say I need to grow up over being offended by an offensive act, but im still going to be offended by an act that is universally offensive. A finger is just a finger in the air right?
Don't apologize. They'll do everything in their power to keep you from getting a hook and WHINE about it being our job to make the game fun for them.
They're bastard hypocrites and they deserve it.
Interesting. You compare a game that is basicaly tag with a horror theme, with some martial art game like wrestling. To actualy distract a person, even if it makes you "be a jerk" as you have labeld it, can be a victory bringing strategick in this kind of game, but not in martial arts, where an actual confrontation of two individuals leads to the result and not the avoiding of said situation. even though youre arguments are somewhat interesting, theire sadly invalid.
And, because i will hate myself for not saying this: Ok, boomer
This is one of the tragedies of the modern age.
On one side of this silly culture war you have the safe space brigade who find literally everything 'problematic'.
On the other side of it you have people that now feel compelled to act like gigantic prolapsed anuses to everyone to somehow own the other side.
In the middle is the vast, vast majority of the rest of us having to deal with smelly jerks from both sides and generally wanting to leave the planet.
Gen-X'er actually (just). My birthdate is remarkably close to that of Kurt Cobain's.
I see both as analogous. Both are supposed to be competitive and enjoyable for both sides, with a common respect for each other as opponents and human beings.
Sure, yelling ethnic slurs at someone before a match can rattle them and it can certainly be an effective strategy that can make it easier to win - but so's hacking. I don't think either are acceptable.
The difference between this and, say, a kendo match is that it's entirely anonymous. There is no risk of getting fined/removed/clouted for the person acting the fool, which is what brings out the CoD kiddies.
However, this sort of behavior is also the sort of thing that causes people (especially new people thinking of joining) to just quit, and eventually your game suffers for it. League of Legends ran into this problem (it was difficult to retain new players because of the septic tank of a community), and they managed to substantially turn it around with the Tribunal - leading to LoL being the biggest game in the world for a while.
I know that I've tried to recruit friends and family members into DbD, and the two factors that make it a hard sell are:
Once again - it's incredible how much time and effort you are putting into twisty justifications for your own poor behavior. Usually when you start doing this its an indication that you know you are in the wrong.
Manner up.
It's not that hard.
I mean, how often do those tbags happen in a safe location? As in truly safe. You can easily say that tbagging or clicking anywhere during the match is meant as a distraction. You could literally say that nodding or mass slugging would be toxic too in that regard.
I have honestly see more killers claim survivors to be entitled, when all they wanted to do was rescue their teammate. Bodyblocking the killer so their teammate gets to live isnt toxic, even if it's rude from the killer perspective, since they might need someone dead at that point, it's not like survivor want you to get the kill. It's sweaty at best, but sweaty isnt toxic.
I'd consider someone to be toxic when the whole team clearly outmatches the killer, or when the killer clearly outmatches the survivors and still plays sweaty.
It's similar to tunneling, sometimes you just need to tunnel to get back some pressure.
The only thing I could consider toxic in this game, is slugging for no other reason than just to slug(in example, when hooking a survivor is equally beneficial to the situation, but you just slug because you play blight with alchemist ring and infectious for example).
That is part the fault of the devs to design slugging without any usable mechanics. I'd honestly would even love it if slugged survivors could still do gens and open gates, but it would take them forever just to reach the next gen or the gate(they move at 0.7 meters per second, if they can do all gens while being slugged, that would be the fault of the killer). It would really punish slugging in a 2v1 scenario, and it really incentivises killers to hook whenever it's favourable, while it barely gives survivors any pressure at all and still keeps a ton of pressure to keep survivors slugged.
What do you mean safe location? I don't think slugging is toxic not at all. Far from it, Nodding can be toxic. There's really no reason to do it. Slugging is just trying to delay the game and the most optimal way to apply pressure there's nothing inherently bad about it unless you're slugging people to die on the ground then yeah that is toxic but last time I've seen a Killer made everyone bleed out on the ground was over a year ago.
I don't main anything in this game. I have played both sides extensively with 2000+ hours with the game. I fully understand both side's struggles with the game in fact I probably played more survivor now at this point usually Solo Q and only recently tried SWF since I was bored playing alone for years. I have joined random groups on discord to test out the waters and it's been nothing but people calling Killers tunneling and camping when they're not. They've just done stupid saves that encourages the Killer to have no reason to go away. I genuinely have not heard anyone admit they were at fault it was always the killer's fault on one way or another. Don't even get me started on how happy they get when Killers mess up, It's disturbing. If you ever watched toxic streamers swf on Youtube that's basically the experience.
I don't consider a team of survivor outclassing the killer as Toxic or vice versa. Being good at the game isn't toxic. When they rub it in at the exit gates Tbagging or instead of leaving at the exit gates they stay for unnecessary amount of times just waiting to rub it in your face that they escape. You don't have pure intentions at that point, You just want to get a rise out of the killer and that's toxic. Insulting the opposite side whether you're killer or survivor on post game chat is toxic. Say your GGs then go into the next match.
I don't think we should blame generations but rather the contributing factors that lead to those stigmas.
I'm a massive audio nerd, and I've done this too.
Like I said, slugging for no other reason than just slugging. Like Nurses mass-slugging survivors instead of hooking them even though there are 5 gens left. That's pretty toxic. You know survivors dont have any mechanics at that point so you are basically being a ######### for the sake of being a #########. Which is toxic. Slugging to gain pressure because hooking for pressure would take too long is fine, slugging someone because they are dead on hook and killing them actually removes more pressure from the game than keeping them slugged is fine. Slugging someone untill they bleed to death without any real reason tho, that's toxic. Any other mechanic in the game is easily explainable by the opponent simply trying to grab attention or trying to win(except tbagging/sticking around for no reason in the exitgate/hitting survivors on the hook). And I have faced quite a few, mainly Nurses and Blights, but also Wraiths(so far, they have always been Russian, it seems like there is a certain Russian group that really loves slugging and never hooking which really keeps portraying the stereotype that russians are toxic when the majority really are not.)
I used to main survivor back in the day untill I had about 800 hours(I quit for 2 years, came back mainly playing killer. Played 3000 hours now, 1800-ish hours in killer), played a lot with friends and killer was a bit hard to play with friends unless you had 5 people. And I do agree a lot of players call something tunneling, I literally had someone who plays a lot of killer himself call someone a tunneler even though he was the only survivor that wasnt on a hook. But the thing is, it's kinda the honorary thing to not go after someone who recently was unhooked(they literally dont have a choice in when they get unhooked, they should add a similar feature like holding shift when downed or while injured that teammates cannot heal you onto hooks) except for maybe triggering BT. Just like it's the honorary thing to not stick around in an exit gate if everyone is already saved. Or like its an honorary thing to not bodyblock the killer when there is someone using exploits/hacks. But as many survivors who are like that, a lot of it is said in the heat of the moment and they can only see the game from their own POV. If they reached a second hookstate due to being rescued slightly too late, and were unhooked with the killer chasing them, I would still call that tunneling since you lost a hookstate. Yet I have seen a lot of killers not call it tunneling since they hooked someone else too(even though the second hookstate was after the hook, meaning that technically, they hooked the same survivor twice). It's basically that survivors have faced a lot of killers who dont give a ######### about the enjoyment of survivors, then those killers claiming that survivors only care about the escape when that obviously doesnt matter to a lot of survivors. Survivors care more about an interactive chase, not getting an oppertunity to interactivity would often mean the killer could down them before there was any interactive chase possible. It's why people hated Spirit and Deathslinger so much. It's why some survivors still have a dislike against Doctor, Clown and Hag, because there isnt much interactive potential against these killers unless you have very specific perks or items at your disposal. Then those killers making the already low interactivity even less interactive by proxy-camping, slugging and tunneling, and you have players absolutely hating killers. It's why Bubba has a massive disparity, he is either really fun to face, or really boring depending on what part of his kit is being used. Yet in a lot of games, I tend to start with a dislike when it's Bubba, since more often than not, it ends in someone being facecamped on first hook before the first gen is done. It is understandable why Survivors have grown a bias against killers and celebrate everytime they create a scenario where more interaction is created(blinding a killer often gives a bigger distance, meaning more interaction). And because of that, killers started to grow a dislike to survivors.
Seriously, back in the day, the norm was to facecamp and tunnel in some way or another. Dead Hard was created because Trapper could get around BT with traps. Dead Hard was meant as an escape to Basement Trapper. BT was created to counter facecampers(which is why it originally also protected the unhooker, because otherwise Billy or Myers could just go for an instadown). DS was literally meant to protect people from being tunneled out. Before those perks existed, all survivors ran saboteur because that was the only way someone didnt get facecamped. Every single survivor entitlement existing right now, has sprouted out from entitled killers that didnt give a ######### about enjoyment. Survivors stopped giving a ######### about the enjoyment for killers because killers never cared for their own(ever heard any entitled killer say "I bought the game, I can play however I want"? As if DBD killer is a single player game and survivors are just NPC's). To a point that almost all players will sweat early on untill they created a scenario where they can fool around.
There are moments where I personally dont see tbagging in the exit gate as being toxic, like being chased, camped and then tunneled the entire game only to escape, because at that point, the killer literally ignored 3 other survivors just to remove your enjoyment from the game, just like smashing a survivor on hook isnt always toxic if all they did was be useless to their team only to annoy you(as long as you dont spam it). Entitlement exists heavily on both sides. One of the biggest entitlements I have seen was Tru3 trying to break pallets that werent dropped with Nemesis when he was in the PTB because he felt like that would really be healthy for the game if killers could consistently create deadzones very early on in the game by simply breaking a pallet before a survivor had a chance to loop. Where the biggest entitlement I have seen a survivor, was one of my friends calling a killer a tunneler because they were chased after doing 2 gens. That's quite a big gap of entitlement. Entitled survivor may be a bit more common, but when there is entitlement in killers, its stronger
It's when I missed a Shred on a Claudette and hit fencing in the killer shack and I heard the different sound
I think you misunderstood my harshly here. I never have nor will ever be offending to another person who i dont know and have never met (like every online player you will encounter) for as long as i live. and this post wasnt made with the intention to get to know if it is ok to be toxic, it was made to ask the question what people actualy think when they are.