The Idea of Changing Big Boi Bubba
If you want to just see my change ideas and skip my reasoning for it, just skip untill you see a great big line and the changes end after the right before the second line.
Today I watched an Otzdarva video (dated around mid September) where he made his own suggested changes for killers. These ranged with proposed buffs and nerfs that made some sense to me and we saw some of them (like his trapper ideas) come to life in the most recent update. What interested me most were his thoughts on Bubba. He basically thinks that face camping Bubba is a problem and since we are in more of a confirm kill meta in order to advance in MMR, this has become more obnoxious than previous. Otz suggested something like causing bubba to lose charges when someone with borrowed (or presumably endurance effect) is hit... but I hate that idea as it makes Bubba's decision really uneasy. Survivor perks are already obnoxiously unpredictable and as a killer you have to potentially figure out 16 perks a survivor has where as 4 people have all game. If they have mettle of man, soul guard or any other list of endurance based add-ons or perks this can become a very frustrating experience. If you see a group of three survivors and one of them just got up with soul guard and they take the first hit, your down potential is instantly deleted. So in the spirit of knowing that tent-pitching bubba needs to be addressed from a design perspective, I'm going to offer some change suggestions that I think would fit a more consistent experience for the Killer himself, and for the survivors trying to develop a strategy (other than slam out gens) to make an unhook play reasonably happen.
For the record, I don't think that face camping bubba is the worst thing in the world because there are plenty of unhealthy add-ons on the killer side... I just think that it needs to be something Bubba is forced to commit to (Similar to Scratch mirror Myers) So survivors have a clear idea of what they are dealing with and have an opportunity to develop a real strategy around it.
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Base Kit change:
- Bubba's chainsaw now goes into tantrum after hitting a second survivor.
Add-on Changes:
Yellow Add-ons
- Long Guide Bar: Every survivor hit with a single chainsaw rev, removes one charge of the chainsaw. The cannibal no longer enters the tantrum state when chaining together hits with the chainsaw. Breaking a pallet with the chainsaw removes one token.
Green Add-ons
- The Grease: Noises made from the Cannibals chainsaw is consistent regardless of distance. Once the cannibals chainsaw is fully revved, gains the undetectable status effect. Doubles the amount of time (Keep in mind that after a certain amount of time of holding the chainsaw revved, he will enter the tantrum state) Doubles the length bubba can maintain a fully revved chainsaw.
Iridescent Add-ons
- Carburetor Tuning Guide: Whenever the Cannibal chains a down (not just a hit) with his chainsaw gains a permanent max token stack (up to 2 additional stacks, making the max stacks with this add on 5, if you have the purple add on Depth Gauge Max total stacks is 6) If the cannibal hits a downed pallet with at least 2 tokens remaining, the tokens are consumed and the chain is not broken.
Perk Changes
- Insidious: A killer who stands still for 2 Seconds gains the Undetectable status effect. After the killer has stood still for 15 seconds crows will begin to circle the killer, adds an additional crow every 5 seconds (up to three) this makes similar noises but slightly different to a survivor standing still, potentially warning of an insidious camper. A Killer can now M1 a crow launching them 10 meters forward. If a crow makes contact with a survivor, the crow begins to attack that survivor and he or she suffers the Incapacitated and Oblivious status effects for 15 seconds and then the crow will fly away on its own (NOTE: if incapacitated doesn't already do the following, then it also prevents the afflicted survivor unhooking another survivor if it already does, forget I said that) The survivor gains the m1 action "Shoo!" Channeling "Shoo!" for 4 seconds forces the crow to fly away early which can be channeled while running, but once fully channeled the survivor, will be forced to stand still for 1 second (think of it as a faster remove action when victor pounces on an uninjured survivor) Once the killer moves, it frightens the crows scaring them off 1 every 2 seconds. Has NO interaction with Spies from the Shadows (Maybe they could also prevent exit gate escapes but I'm not so sure about that tbh...)
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The effect of these changes is I took the worst add-ons he currently has and now they complement a Tent-Pitching Bubba play style.
You already don't run into many situations outside of camping where bonking two survivors with one chainsaw is going to happen, so the tantrum effect doesn't really effect the chase all too much, but now if you want to be a solid and consistent Bubba camper, it needs to be part of your build. This gives the survivors a very clear expectation of what a bubba is planning on doing (similar to scratched mirror Myers), but he can't have the best Chase add-on's if he wants to camp. So his chasing potential is lowered in favor of getting around the nerf to his base kit for camping.
I usually don't like touching killer perks because its hard to account for how every killer (current and future) is going to be able to utilize them in some game breaking way, but Insidious in its current state is too good a workaround for my proposed green add-on, so had to change it so that bubba cant just use insidious for complete stealth instead of the green add-on. Plus I think the insidious change is interesting and doesn't break all the other killers (except for maybe nurse but not sure to be honest)
I'm sure others will figure out reasons why this makes Bubba too weak or too strong and I would like to get the feedback.
If you read the whole thing: Thank you, you are a legend.
Comments
Bubba is fine as is imo. People that face camp with Bubba, are throwing matches. He may had to play like that before, but after his basekit changes were made, he's a lot better, since he can rev his chainsaw, and you get more than enough charges to close the gap on the survivor, even if you have to swing wide, to avoid bumping into obstacles.
I was ready to threaten you with a nice face camp tea party if you nerfed him too heavily. But... I would be okay with these changes, actually. So they can't be bad if I am not fearful of quitting DBD forever Eva because they hurt my baby.
I figured people who are good at Bubba in chase would like them. It also adds (I hope) a less brain dead camping experience. Thanks for the feedback
I can agree Bubba's current state just begs to be used for camping..
I see you're trying to encourage bubbas to actually go into chase and chain downs but its quite rare to pull especially with the way he's kind of slow when revving and people would need to be dumb to stick as a group with a bubba following them while revving.
Also it takes one vault to completly avoid him and get him to cancel the revving and go to the other side.
Well the idea is to create a realistic counter play to camping for survivors without completely destroying his camping viability. These ideas are to make the admittedly problematic iteration of Camping Bubba more interactive and intentional. Intentional in terms of chases are harder with his camping add-ons and camping is harder with his chasing add-ons. This way its much harder to be excellent at both chases and camping at the same time.
Most easy balancing for him would be to lower his base speed imo.
I only came for the base kit power change.
I think it's unnecessary since it would only punish cannibal for the survivors bad play.
@Bran Well, its a nuanced post with many layers, so only attacking one part of it is a severe strawman. But you can do what you want, free country and all.
Honestly I would just combine both tantrum window add-ons (Long Guide Bar & The Grease) into one, and use that extra add-on slot for a brown add-on that turns him into old Bubba for nostalgia, something like this:
If we're going to punish Bubba for camping however, then Bubba should be given a base-kit buff to compensate, particularly yellow Chili base-kit and maybe yellow engravings base-kit.
Face Camping Bubba is fine. Leave him alone.
I think you are framing this situation in a completely biased way. Camping is punishment for survivors is another way to frame the punishment discussion. You seem to think a survivor should get 1000 BP for a game because they got insta downed and face camped.
You could camp survivors just as effectively if you use my camping add-ons and there are different ways to use it. you run my yellow and green, then you have to get a hang of timing your chainsaw just right. Combine my red and yellow, then it takes a while to build up your camping game, but once you get those stacks you can camp like no one ever has before. Camp, get 2 hits, shred a pallet and hit the third. I mean you only lose your movement and some stability during tantrum. I mean at base kit, If two survivors go for a basement save even with my nerf you get all three with no add-ons. Two come up, you hit both of them and if you bottleneck the stairs your tantrum is still a spinning death trap for a survivor who tries to run past you.
My goal here isn't to just end all basement bubba builds, its to make them intentional. Not a thing you do because you hit some one with noed and run them to the basement and stand in the corner till someone comes to save them. It makes you think more about what you're strategy as Bubba is as opposed to being so oppressive in this situation that no body bothers with the save and you sit in a corner till someone dies. The problem with Basement Bubba currently is that if Bubba has a survivor he his camping, he is so oppressive in that situation that only stupidly cocky survivors or flat out stupid survivors will even attempt to make a save. And then what? My idea is so survivors can say to themselves, if basement Bubba is gonna camp, we can do something about it that involves killer to survivor interaction as opposed to killer in corner while everyone else does gens. I believe with my suggestions survivors have to think, is he a Bubba with camping add-ons... If not, we might be able to get him out. So like, OMG, suddenly basement bubba is actually seeing decent survivors throwing their hat in an attempt to get that save.
I think Killer mains have this bad habit of thinking they are the only ones who are really playing this game. If you make a game where all the rules are stacked to give you a 70% chance of success where all your opponents only have a 30% chance of success... guess what! They think its unfair and they don't want to play your ######### game. Basement bubba as is means Bubba has to seriously misplay for survivors to get away with a face camped save and even if they do, someone's probably going to take that saved survivors place. You have a 95% chance of getting your objective done, and they have a 5% chance. Any survivor who isn't stupid will look at those odds and say, "aww fuhck that." Now if we make it so at base its 50/50, they say, "Okay, its worth a shot, I'll play your basement game Bubba Boi" And I'm offering a way through these add-ons so you stack that 50/50 into a range of 70/30 or even 80/20 in the Killer's favor. Even after learning your add-on selection from experimentation, survivors would still believe, maybe there's a shot and they are willing to roll the dice and maybe get away with it.
If a Cannibal is around a hooked survivor for twenty seconds, he automatically DCs and the killer gets a two minute video talking to from the Head of Game Design on fair play. He must complete the video and answer ten question quiz all asking if he will face camp again ten times. Nine wrong answers and banned for a day.
######### are you talking about? this is a joke right?
...what the fu- Okay...?
I'm simply just saying that if we're nerfing an unhealthy aspect of Bubba, we should reward the good Bubba players by giving him a buff to compensate for removing his ability to dominate in terms of facecamping and basement proxy camping.
Leave Bubba alone he’s one of the most balanced killers.
Thats just stupid...
You know what you're right. Who ever thought that everyone would like the same idea. It's almost unheard of
Yep thats right
Right Right
Your survivor main right ?
No, I don't main anything, but I probably play more trickster as of late than anything else
I still wondering that you are a survivor main but you don t wanna reveal it.. There is no problem if you are a main survivor.. I say that because your post about Bubba sounds like you got rekt by it and now you are asking for some kind of nerf, when the Leatherface is perfectly balanced 😉
Will this ease your doubts?
Something tells me that you didn't actually read my whole post as the add-ons and perks that I constructed were an effort to make camping less AFK and more reasonable for survivors to make save attempts. It's not to nerf bubba. If I was just bitching about bubba, I would say something like "Nerf his move speed, or make it so he cant rev chainsaw while camping." I'm trying not to misread you, but you are making it very hard for me to think you read the whole thing.
You're welcome to disagree for sure. I like that Bubba is good in chase, I just don't love that his hard camp has pretty unreasonable counter play. Idk if you read the whole post, but I have changed add-ons to reflect that I want bubba to still be the top tier camper, but it should be shown in someone's build complimented with my "Camping add-ons"
Let me push back on you related to my base kit change idea cause I think I can win you over. Firstly, check out my add-on changes where I took his worst add-ons and made them flexibly usable for camping or enhancing your chase to an absurd degree. Second, While its true that you probably won't find many survivors together, the most common amount is two (For gen speed or healing). I'm counting on these instances being rare, but if you do say find three, you could run my add on that removes my base kit nerf (which is a yellow so you should have plenty). If you get three people running in the same direction when bubba shows up, I think you aren't going to have a tough game to begin with.
But the basement of course is where your basement plays are going to be the most hard core. You have to turn yourself into a spinning wall of hurt at the gap because in tantrum you can still down ppl. and maybe only the borrowed time gets away. I'd be open to making tantrum a uasble mechanic, so effectively anyone around bubba when he hits tantrum could take a hit. So you hit the borrowed guy with the chainsaw, but if you hit him with the tantrum effect the after shock of going into tantrum would down survivors through the endurance status effect. something like that
Terrible idea, you are just proposing nerfs. The whole point of this killer is being able to instadown survivors, with potential of chain multiple instadowns. If they were all together that's their own damn fault. If you want to nerf his base kit you better suggest some buffs to his mobility or hability to down single survivors.
I guess we are coming at this from different philosophical positions. Yours appears to be the power of situational strategy. If you are in a situation to get 3-4 downs, it's something to be taken advantage of. Mine to an extent is the focus on interaction. I'm still not sure anyone has read my full add-on descriptions as (again) they are taking the worst add-ons and turning them into potentially the strongest add-ons when paired up effectively. But to avoid disrespecting your intelligence, I'll just let you explore what these add-ons truly can do that even current bubba could only do in a wet dream.
My philosophy (which is what I'm really trying to do here) is to take camping from a strategy that has survivors T-Bagging in the distance while the only survivor ever with comradere sits on hook for 3 minutes into something that survivors can reasonably counter and therefore have more legitimate interactions. The current Bubba (when done right) has no reasonable counter play where a survivor can expect to just trade hooks and leave... if done right, a current camping bubba should always walk away from a brave (or stupid) hook save attempt with their hooked survivor still on hook and at least 1 slug. The video you should me was more of a proxy bubba than a camping bubba, and even then he saw a bill with a flashlight (knowing he was near, and insta picked up the downed survivor anyway. Thoughtless, which is what I'm trying to change.
Think of it this way, if the Bubba's camping strategy has a chance of success (as hook trading is a counter strategy against this at high level play) of 95%, most survivors will refuse to interact with that Bubba and slam out gens or have one survivor lying in wait while the others slam out gens. With mine, a borrowed save would yield a successful hook trade (assuming Bubba hasn't committed to full on face camp) about 50% of the time. In order to punish the killer as much as possible, they would be willing to roll the dice on those odds. In other words you would see more survivors not work on gens and instead go for an unhook. NOW THAT BECOMES THE NEW BASE EXPECTATION! THAT IS EXTREMEMLY CRUCIAL! That's because once you consider the add-ons (designed to boost camping) they expect a 50% chance of hook trade success, but your add-ons (which they don't know you have) give you back the edge. It's like playing cards when you think that your opponent has a 50% chance of holding aces, while unknowingly to you, your opponent has aces up his sleeve. So in reality they actually have about a 20% chance of successfully getting away from a bubba camping. BUT even so, 20% is still better than 5% for them, so the likely hood that they will go for a save knowing that those add-ons could be in play is now 4 times as likely. Thus we have not just a Basement Bubba meme/insult, but a legitimate playstyle. And people would have to acknowledge it as such in the same way they have to acknowledge Scratched mirror Myers for example.
I get I'm using more theoretical numbers, but I'm trying to emphasize that dbd is more of a game about decision making than it is about skill.
I'm guessing you only read one line of the OP. You can say terrible idea if you read the whole post, but you clearly didn't.
I've read it all, stop insulting my intelligence. Tell me then, what are the buffs that you are proposing to counter those nerfs? Because making addons to make his nerfed kit slightly less bad is not a buff. It's like when they nerfed Billy, they made addons that made his nerf a little bit more beareable.
All of the add-ons that got changed were his most pointless add-ons and now they do new things, including removing the nerf. KK gg
Do not change Bubba, change Face Camping. Period.