Killer mains critique killer meta but survivor mains don't critique survivor meta?
This isn't X side complaining about Y side's meta or vice versa. It's an observation about how "mains" of each role tend to react and speak about the meta of the role they play on.
For example, I've noticed that veterans in general, but more specifically killer main veterans will speak lowly of killer meta builds and even to the extent of just the use of slowdowns in general. You even see on this forum sometimes people bragging and priding themselves about not using any slowdowns in pub games. It's not really atypical for me to see a killer main critique another killer for using a meta build and even go as far to say they're bad for using it.
However with survivor mains I have never seen them critique each other over the use of any meta builds in the slightest. In fact I often see them run them, and the few I don't just never say anything in regards to that. I have never heard between conversations of a survivor main critiquing another survivor "you're bad if you use dead hard/unbreakable/ds/soul guard/etc". Like there seems to be a prominent anti-slowdown movement within killer main circles (particularly amongst veterans) but nothing of the sort for survivor main veterans, particularly with exhaustion perks. And I'm wondering has anyone else seen this disparity, and why it's so.
Perhaps this is an example. Let's say it's a Nurse who regularly runs ruin undying corrupt pop or something to that tune in pub games. No matter how good she is, she's going to get criticised for her build and be judged by it by both survivor mains and killer mains alike. Now take a survivor who can be exceptionally good but runs ds/ub/dh/iron will. Killer are probably going to complain sure and say they're boosted because of the perks but I would never see another survivor complain about their perks and judge them negatively for it or see their skill as less than, unlike if they were in the killer role.
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I mean, I do get where you're coming from, but there's probably a good majority that speak out on others using the same DS/UB/DH/Iron build, but they get shoved aside and labelled as a "Killer Main" who's just bad. I would call people out that brag about running full Meta, but because everyone's just going to assume that I'm a salty Killer Main who plays bad, I just don't even bother. On top of that, it's easier to critique a build for Killers due to some builds just being terrible on Killers, such as Pop with Pyramid Head, when he has his cages. Survivors are just skins, and the use of a perk comes from the player using the perk, not the character the player's playing.
Why?
I assume because most people don't play 4 man swfs, so they don't see how crazy it can get. Also, how can you tell whether or not someone is a killer main or a survivor main?
I think this is probably why. The veteran killer players he’s talking about also often play survivor. I know I’ve seen Otz and Tofu say they recognize exhaustion perks are strong but they prefer not to use them because it’s more fun without the safety net (Tofu runs adrenaline and Otz has been playing with Smash Hit I believe, one of which is one time and the other is the most inconsistent one in the game). But because they’re both better known as killer players they get bunched into that role.
I would hazard a guess that people who 100% play one side are much less likely to grasp the problem of their side’s overpowered builds, on both sides. Anyone who plays a decent amount of both sides likely is aware of the problem perks on both sides and as they get better are likely less likely to find them fun to use because they get sick of seeing it when they’re in the other role and no longer need to be carried by them. That seems to hold true from what I’ve seen and experienced myself.
I get this to an extent, but in also a number of instances just shouting killer main wouldn't make sense, particularly when the person is very well known to be a survivor main. For example with content creators who are very obviously survivor mains and pretty much never play killer, they say zilch about survivor meta and almost all of the ones I've seen use survivor meta builds themselves in pretty much every video/stream that's not dedicated to a specific build for content. Even if people in their audience were to yell "killer main" if they critiqued survivor meta, it just wouldn't make sense.
For killers I understand your point every optimal build can be different, although I do think the utmost "optimal" build would just be stacking the strongest slowdowns with little variance if you want an über strong build to delay the game to buy you enough time to get downs and kills.
Many times it's self admitted, other times it's very obvious in their opinions about the games, and other times it's observable (content creators).
Are you saying there's maybe an imbalance between time spent when comparing killer mains to survivor mains? Like for example saying killer mains often will play the other role (survivor) more than survivor mains will play the other role (killer).
I definitely agree with the second part as well. When I first started playing for several hundreds of hours I never played killer and I was very much a typical entitled survivor main in terms of my views of the game. Then I started playing killer and my bitchiness decreased a lot (in terms of annoyance at the other side) and I developed a better perspective of the game.
I just do find it interesting though the disparity in attitudes between veterans, or at least ones who are content creators. You've got specialised killer mains like Huntress mains, Nurse mains, Billy mains, etc who pride themselves in their skill so much to never use any sort of slowdown, or even add ons sometimes. But I rarely have seen anything like that for survivor main content creators who will often times just run meta builds. I even see comp players do it honestly too. They say things like "you don't need slowdowns for pub games" but then when they switch to survivor you see their builds consist of ds/ub/iw/dh.
I have to disagree. I never really see either side critiquing their own side.
Just don't be a main and critique everything.
Killer perks are complained about because the players around it experienced their effects. It's why killers only complain about survivor meta perks because they're the ones who has to deal with that crap. Survivor has no reason to complain about it because it doesn't affect their gameplay negatively in fact its better for them. It's a team effort after all. This is also the reason why Self care is frowned upon, Survivor see that dirt in their eye whenever they run aura reading perks and die inside when they see a Survivor self care at the corner of the map.
How about urban evasion? People hate it because it affects their team efficiency.
There's also the fact that Killers are the power role and has their own tier/character list. Just like fighting games with their own tiers some people just have a big ego that they actively attack a person for playing this character or that character for playing a certain way.
Killer mains are so completely and utterly sophisticated. Not to mention humble. What would those peasant survivors do without us, the arbiters of fun? We are truly... a cut above the rest.
Im a survivor main and I feel I critique the survivor meta. I tend to not run a lot of meta perks. I usually run at most oneor two I I feeling it and I have found I have had the most fun running those other perks.
However I have to ask. Why are critiquing anyone for running killer perks. Players should be able to run any perk they want regardless of if they are strong or not. I wish people would leave others alone.
Otz isn't as good on Survivor as he is killer, that is why he is commonly known as a Killer Main. Plus the vast majority of his content is as produced from playing killer. Tofu I've only seen people refer to as mainly playing survivor (Spoiler because he has said he finds killer too boring).
Yes, we do. All the time. As do random survivors whenever some douchebag with a meta build tears into a nice killer for their perks.
Well, now it is because "it is miserable." But yeah, before it was because it was boring.
The survivor meta doesn’t include anything outside of perks, killer does.
Camping and Tunneling are two things that are only countered if you bring perks. So while I am critical of those who bring DS/UB/BT I also don’t blame them because those two actions have become a part of a killer’s kit. Meaning they are ALWAYS available, and there is 0 way to tell when someone is going to do it.
Only thing I could think of is items but even then the killer sees that and plans ahead. You can’t do that as survivor. Unless you just assume everyone is going to opt for that playstyle.
When I play killer I see a lot of DS/UB and barely if ever get stunned with DS because I choose to instead go for more fun builds, where it will push survivors to rely on more of their skill and less on creating a situation where they will cheese a strategy through those perks.
Did you seriously just say you never get hit with DS because you do not get hooks fast enough? Lol.
I do envy you, though.
kinda tired of survivor vs killer posts
and yes I saw you say this post is not that, but it actually is. You're speaking your own experience, and as you mention veterans as third person, it kinda gives the idea that you don't play or interact enough
You used to see a lot of survivor mains being outspoken about not running DS before it was nerfed, because it was acknowledged by a lot of people to be kind of dumb (especially when paired with Unbreakable). After its nerf more people consider it a dedicated anti-tunnel perk and therefore a lot more fair, so you’re not gonna see as many people disavowing it. Just like you won’t see most killer players apologising for using Pop on a low tier killer, or similar.
I’ve also seen plenty of survivor players on these forums (and outside of them) talk themselves up because they don’t run exhaustion perks, or DH in particular.
Outside of those particular examples, I totally disagree with your post in general. There are plenty of survivor mains who will scoff at a 4 man running all meta plus a good map offering, just like people will scoff at a Ruin/Undying/Pop/Corrupt Nurse with good add ons. But less people will give a damn if some solo Meg is running DS and a brown medkit, just like nobody will care about a Trapper running Corrupt.
There are also PLENTY of killer mains who will doggedly defend the honour of a full slowdown, range add on Nurse. Let’s not pretend the anti-slowdown killer mains are anything other than a minority.
I see it a lot on reddit, here probs not because because more killers congregate here than any other DBD related space
You are right and i´m guilty of this aswell.
Maybe its because survivor perks actually are worth taking, because they make the game much easier. While most of the killer meta perks have so many downsides/counters that people advocate against them.
This isn't X side complaining about Y side's meta or vice versa.
Except it is, considering you're only providing anecdotal hearsay and overgeneralized statements.
Someone has to be a role model to these peasants and set the bar for standards in this community.
That's fair, I'm only one person and I only see so much, and that doesn't mean I see what anyone else sees (or doesn't see, sometimes).
At least with me personally, I think anyone and anything is open to criticism. If someone doesn't like something they can feel free to say it. Doesn't matter if it's external of DBD or not. However I also have the mindset of using whatever you want in DBD even if it annoys or upsets others as your fun is most important. The game's nature is asymmetrical and is not balanced in terms of gameplay nor in terms of fun when looking at the duality of roles.
Like a slugging infectious fright Nurse is extremely boring to go against as being slugged isn't fun (unbreakable only works once and it's a nurse; she can just down you again) as it's literally preventing you from playing the game. I can complain about it all I want but if the Nurse finds it fun to use and play with then so be it.
I don't have much experience seeing this personally, but I have seen it in some instances of hypocrisy. Like criticising a ruin undying tinkerer blight while also using ds/dh/unbreakable yourself, with a haddonfield offering. It's typically in instances of lack of self-awareness that I see, personally. Although glad to hear it actually goes on.
Perhaps it goes on just as much behind the scenes but it's just not as advertised as when killer mains do it (criticise their own role's meta).
Unless it's like a Billy/Bubba or another killer with a one shot, I think camping can be worked around even without meta perks if the team is coordinated enough. Tunnelling can as well in many instances also if the team is coordinated enough. Something I do a lot in solo queue is if I see someone getting tunnelled I will purposefully bodyblock the killer to try and give more distance. If the team is privy of what I'm doing sometimes I'll even go down as well as bait to try and be hooked, although I often don't do this since two downs (if they're really that dedicated to tunnelling) is very catastrophic to a team.
In many games I always like to say that many times I see people use survivor meta perks to correct bad decisions instead of use perks that allow them to make good decisions. This isn't always the case of course but that's just my own observation. Good players will play smart regardless of the perks they use but many players I see rely on those perks not to help them out but to correct bad decisions that they're making. BT probably being an exception since it's not helping you but your teammates.
If you're tired of it then you can feel free to not read it lol.
And no it's actually not, since this post's primary focus isn't about survivors criticising killer meta or killer's criticising survivor meta, as I noted in the OP. That was not meant to say it's not comparing attitudes of survivor and killer, but you're ignoring the details which are important and so what you're saying isn't accurate.
And yes obviously it's from my own experience and I acknowledged that, and it was quite obvious I was writing from personal experience in the OP as well. I have almost 2k hours, and when I say veterans I mean people who have 3x or more my hours. I don't consider myself a veteran personally as I haven't played DBD for more than a year.
Back when old DS was a thing I didn't use forums much so I guess I didn't see that, although personally myself during that time I was a bonafide survivor main and I also was pretty vocal about not running DS too (not because I thought it was busted but because I thought it was bad to use, or at least I saw people using it poorly). Personally I haven't seen nearly as much commentary about people bragging about not using exhaustion perks but that's not me saying it doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it. I'm only one person and I only see so much.
My post wasn't to imply no survivor ever thinks lowly of survivor meta, rather at the very least it doesn't seem nearly as advertised as killer mains criticising killer meta. It could very much happen more (survivor mains criticising survivor meta), but it definitely seems very covert and they're a lot less outspoken about it