Which map rework has been successful?
While most have said they've been disasters. I think a few have been fine. I think Ormond was done well enough tracking is tricky but you now had a chance unlike old Ormond. The many safe loops and pallets were gone. Thought MacMillan was fine also. But do you think any maps were done fine.
Comments
None.
I dont think that any Map Reworks have been bad, not even The Game. The Map is fine to play, even as Killer. It is boring for both sides, but this was a factor before.
And while I am not a big fan of breakable Walls, they did not ruin the new Maps. Like, if they want to remove them entirely, I would be for it, but if not, they are not bothering me that much.
And I would agree, Ormond was really well done. It is an alright Map, before, it was the worst Map for Killer (I think it was even worse than Haddonfield), but now you can actually play Killer on this Map.
Maybe Yamaoka is better than the old one? Not sure tho
Graphically I like pretty much every upgrade, though Autohavens ground looks kinda weird. I get that some people think they lost some kind of their atmosphere/individuality but I defiantly don’t miss those color tints and I think they tried too hard with Autohaven to get that green in. there is something ‚missing‘ though.. can’t really grasp what it is, probably the fog?
Balance-wise, Ormond rework was definitely best, The Game just switched sides. Overall I don’t think the maps got worse; but still not perfect of course. As I understood it they are not done with the reworks though as the terrain updates may bring some gameplay changes?
Ormond has million pallets, how it is good? It was so bad before but now it is just bad. So i have to be happy because it is not so bad anymore, just bad?
Half of those "million" pallets are on absolutely tiny loops though.
I'm sorry, but how is it fine that they took the absolute worst aspect of the Game map and massively amplified it? That's like if they rework Haddonfield by adding more chainable god windows, or Hawkins by removing the good pallets and catwalks.
Ormond was the best rework so far. It's size and gen spread still makes it very survivor sided, but the pallet spawns are better and the strongest tiles are in the corners and are borderline unchainable.
So? That map is supporting longer loops. Drop pallets and make run in one area with killer. I love this map as survivor because there is shack, good windows + 2 - 3 god pallets and so much normal pallets. That is one of the unfair maps.
When survivors does not know how to loop, this map is good but for good survivors that map is heaven.
Ormond is pretty much the only one.
All the other reworks either didn't change the core problem of that map (e.g Shelter Woods,Badham,Fractured Cowshed etc.) or made it worse (e.g The Game or Groaning Storehouse)
McMillan Reworks were fine and good overall. Azarovs rework is a shame tho
Most of those Pallets are unsafe. If you get run around unsafe Pallets, this is on you, not the Map.
Fine in a sense that you can play Killer on The Game without that much issues. Like, the Map is not an auto-loss like some people want to claim it, you can win as Killer on The Game.
And I cannot really give ######### to the Rework if the main problem I had with this Map (that it only consists of Pallets, which makes the gameplay pretty boring) existed before as well.
That's not an argument, though. You can win as the killer on the Game? You can win as the killer on Haddonfield. You can lose games as Spirit and win them as Trapper, and survivors can get 4-man escapes on Shelter Woods. That doesn't put these things on equal footing. The problem isn't that it's literally impossible to win, it's that you are more likely to lose a match on The Game than you would be against the same group of survivors on Wretched Shop or Coal Tower unless you are playing a killer that can ignore or quickly eat pallets, because competent survivors can waste so much of your time with pallets you're obligated to break that the rest of them will have finished most of the gens by the time the map is something you can have chases on. It's a map where survivors have to screw up or spend significant time lost to give the killer a strong start; otherwise they're playing catch-up for most of the game. The Game is very survivor-sided in its current state, and whatever arguments are made against this, the fact remains that survivors avoided this map before the rework and suddenly really love using Jigsaw Pieces.
Anyway, echoing that Ormond was the best rework - turned a heavily sided map into a more neutral one. It's still large, but its looping potential is a lot weaker and it has a lot of weak pallets that the killer is free to ignore once dropped. Many other reworks were largely cosmetic or didn't change the balance of the map (Shelter Woods is still ridiculously barren, Fractured Cowshed still has its god-tier chained tiles, etc.)
You are talking like all pallets are unsafe on Ormond. Ormond has some god-pallets. Ormond has some good loop walls. Ormond has shack. Ormond has main building. And add so much unsafe pallets. And this map is balanced huh? That map is still so bad for killers.
It is absolutely an auto loss, the only way survivors don't escape is if they're so genuinely bad they can't do gens and drop pallets. All of them have to be broken, all of them are easily lopable, and they're too dense to create a proper deadzone or zone survivors out.
The Game was already a survivor-sided map and now it's arguably equal to Haddonfield but on easy mode.
I don't mind it. The main building is like Asylum - strong at first, but weak once you get rid of the two god pallets (which are both located pretty far from the entrance, so a survivor just making it to the building isn't going to reach either of them) and the breakable wall by the bar window. Because that main building is so centralized, you're pretty guaranteed to whittle its strong features down. Ormond's shack is located in the northwest(?) corner of the map, so it's rarely an option for survivors to run to and two sides are a complete dead end. Sucks when basement is in there, but once the gens near it are complete, it becomes a non-factor. Meanwhile there's a lot of zones with no visual cover, making survivors very easy to spot, and only weak loops around them.
Oh my, Aven is posting that the game is not that bad for Killers, quickly, group up!
Anyway:
I dont think that The Game and Haddonfield are that much comperable. Maybe The Game is easier for bad Survivors, because it is easier to just drop a Pallet instead of knowing which Window is strong, but thats about it. Haddonfield is way worse, because at least the Killer can do something against Pallets (aka kicking), while Windows only get countered by Entity Blockers or two Perks, which are not really to be considered as a Counter.
I would be totally happy if they change The Game in a way to remove all breakable Walls and remove the Pallets they added to compensate for the Deadends because of breakable Walls, but I really dont think it is that bad as a Map currently. The only thing which was disappointing was that they did not change my Key-problem with the Map - that it is boring to play on for both sides (I would have loved more unsafe Pallets, less safe Pallets and more Windows).
Regarding Ormond: It is not that huge. It is right in the middle, slightly (2m²) above average.
There are safe Pallets, sure, but most Ormond-Pallets are unsafe. And you can totally play unsafe Pallets. IMO Ormond is one of the best Reworks, because they did something which I said long ago - less safe Pallets on the Maps and many unsafe Pallets. This helps Killers and good Survivors.
And they did that with Ormond, I dont win every game on Ormond, but it is not a complete mess like it was before. Yes, you have to kick some Pallets to get rid of them because they are safe, but this is on every Map. And it is not like the Survivor is at a safe Pallet all the time.
Man, I might be a God Killer then! I rarely lose on The Game, I even burn it when there is a Pallet-Breaking Challenge (but, I am using a Killer with Brutal Strength). The only time I struggled on The Game is when I played either Nurse, Oni or Deathslinger, but this is because I suck with those Killers. I even got a 3K with Mirror Myers on that Map against 4 Spine Chills - they were most likely not the most amazing Survivors, but you rarely go against good Survivors and we should not pretend that the majority of players is good.
And if I can win most of the time on The Game, others can do that as well. I might have a lot of hours, but I am not a good Killer-player, so I guess, the Killrate on The Game is still pretty high.
But again, I would be totally happy with removing breakable Walls from that Map and a few Pallets. Or change the playstyle of this Map entirely. But it is not as bad as you claim, clearly not an auto-loss.
Safe or unsafe pallets are threat for killers. If survivor is bad and drop pallet early, it is fine. But all survivors are not bad like that. So if pallets are not so much, that is fine. Because everyone will have chance. But when they are so much survivors are using them to waste your time. And generator times so fast, so Ormond has enough weapons to waste killer's time. And this map huge. I can not say "Ormond is balanced". I mean yes Ormond is better than Coldwind, The Game, Haddonfield but still Ormond is also bad map.
And problem is not about kill them. I think i have really good kill rates, i am above on avarage kill rates. But why i have to show more effort? Survivor will spam m1 and when i chase them shift + w and when you see pallet, use space or loop me around pallet. And if i lose so much time with this survivor, i can not patrol generator and i will lose them. Maps have to be smaller and some maps have to lose some pallets. The Game, Ormond, Coldwind have so much loops and pallets. That is insane.
All my opinion mind you, but...
Good - Maps that improved or otherwise became more fun/balanced through the visual updates:
Bad - Maps that became less balanced and/or more annoying following their updates:
***I haven't played on Fractured Cowshed or Thompson House at all since Coldwind was updated, so I don't have opinions on them yet.
Any other maps I didn't list are ones I feel neutral towards (as in, the updated version did not feel significantly better or worse than the previous version). In some cases this was totally fine, like with Coal Tower and Rancid Abattoir. In others it was kind of disappointing that they didn't really take any steps to improve less interesting maps (like Shelter Woods and Rotten Fields).
Honestly, I'm pretty happy with every rework besides The Game.
I really expected less pallets more windows, we got double the pallets, same windows.
Everyone HAS a chance at an unsafe Pallet. Unsafe Pallets are fair, both players have the ability to outplay each other. In fact, unsafe Pallets become unfair after 15 seconds, because Bloodlust kicks in.
But you just want less Pallets, even those who are playable. If you get outplayed at an unsafe Pallets, the Survivor is just better than you - like I said, this is on you, not the Map (or the Pallet).
And in general, it is obvious that the Killer should have the harder time to win. They are going against 4 people, the outnumbered party should have it more difficult. Otherwise, the game is seriously imbalanced, if one side has:
Point 1 and 2 are already present, point 3 not. And this is ok.
Honestly, the only rework I'd ever call successful is Yamoka.
All the others have failed in one way or another.
Ormond is certainly better than it used to be but it’s still far from perfect.
Yamaoka state.
And macmillan
Autohaven's rework looks dope, I love how they added so much greeeeeen into it. Shame they kept the fun bus tho.
None. The map reworks either do nothing but add unnecessary breakable walls that buff the nearby windows to hell, or they make the map unnecessarily harder to see on and THEN add unnecessary breakable walls that buff the nearby windows to hell.
The Game has got to be THE WORST one... Geezus.. The amount of GOD PALLETS BACK TO BACK to back...to back to back to back to back to back to back to back...to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back ............................... ........................................... ....................................................... ......... .................................................................................................. .........................................
None as main killer, maybe Yamaoka.
Get ready for Haddonfun rework, 85 new Breakable walls and 25 new Safe pallets.
Better: Yamaoka, Badham, Ormond
Same Quality: Coldwind, Macmillan, Asylum
Worse: The Game, Autohaven, Lery's
This is just my opinion though. Lery's was bad before but now it's just unfun for either side.