If you were forced to rework /massively change a killer who and how would you do it

onemind

Limitations

1 you cannot remove a part of their power completely

2 you can't only change addons/addon pass

Northener1907

I would nerf Trapper, he can not use any trap anymore.

TAG

Legion. I'd want to be able to incorporate all four gang members into the power. Something similar to Hell Ember's giant dolls from Identity V. Maybe they all have Feral Frenzy as well.

Friendly_Blendette

Legion AKA the clickbait killer. They had such a cool design and htey made them just run fast like for ######### sake man you have a trailer showing them disguising as a survivor, concept art of one of them looking into a mirror and 3 extra looking back which could have gone the way of a killer that changes masks and powers, there is 4 of them ffs and even the name implies there is multiple but nah instead we got "hehe run fast hehe"

TruffleTurtle

I say legion as well. I would remove some of his useless add ons and hive him back his speed add ons because those were fun. Maybe make it so the other members of the legion are idle around the map and you could choose an idle spot out of multiple to be able to switch between them.

If you really wanna make things more interesting, you could give each member different traits. Like frank could break pallets and walls slightly faster. Joey could be faster than the others slightly, Julie could make you mend 1 second more with maybe something else and idk about Susie.

Friendly_Blendette

@Northener1907 said:

I would nerf Trapper, he can not use any trap anymore.

lets ######### go machete man

Kebek

Legion

I would add new secondary power that allows them to instantly vault pallet/window and do direct damage aftewards seperate from feral frenzy, I'd call it someting like Deadly frenzy.

It would work like this:

1. You need to apply deep wounds status effect by any means X times (around 3 probably) before you get the option to activate deadly frenzy, gaining 1 stack of it.
2. Deadly frenzy has 2 maximum usage stacks that deplete each time it's used. Each time legion gains or uses 1 stack of deadly frenzy there is a map wide audio cue to warn survivors of it.
3. While infornt of a pallet/window, you get the option to use a stack of your secondary power of deadly frenzy which instantly vaults said pallet/window and you move in the frenzy animation (basically it has the same animation just like running in feral frenzy) for next 5 seconds moving at normal 115%, free to M1 a survivor and down them just like normal attack would.
4. If you fail to attack during those 5s or miss, you go on a cooldown just like ending feral frenzy. If you connect your hit, you get normal M1 attack cooldown.
5. You don't see pools of blood or scratch marks while in deadly frenzy.

That would be my way of buffing Legion to make them less of a joke. It has some parts of old Legion that made them brokenly opressive but now it works of a stack system that you need to load up before beiing able to use it. It's still quite heavily countered by splittting up a lot so that Legion can't charge their tokens fast enough.

Besides that, they get only 5s window to down you with it, if you juke them or get enough distance, they basically self stunned themselfs. It would make Legion far more interesting imo.

GeneralV

My proposed idea for a Freddy change is to revert him back to his original version, with a few buffs, while keeping his teleport. Does it count?

Northener1907

@Friendly_Blendette said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154056#Comment_2154056

lets ######### go machete man

Machete man is so cute, that is so strong power already

QwQw

I know you said we can't remove part of a killers power, but I'd just scrap Dream Snares and Dream Pallets completely and give Freddy his old power pack.

Avilgus

Rework main event: You can now repair generator for 180s.

ryseterion

I would revert the hillbilly nerf minus the music and little roar he does and his addons. Rip billy mains. Oh and id also make it so that you can cancel the chainsaw mid-rev so you dont have to wait for it to go all the way back down

Altarf

I'd bring back Old Freddy, with a new mechanic. Old Freddy can now place dream snares with ctrl, but can't teleport to gens. Instead, he can teleport to snares. This destroys the snare even if the teleport is cancelled.

I mained Old Freddy back in the day and despite how laughably weak he is, loved playing him. A gen teleport wouldn't work with his power, though; survivors who wake up by failing a skill check at a gen will just have Freddy teleport to that gen and immediately put them back to sleep.

GeneralV

@Altarf said:

I'd bring back Old Freddy, with a new mechanic. Old Freddy can now place dream snares with ctrl, but can't teleport to gens. Instead, he can teleport to snares. This destroys the snare even if the teleport is cancelled.

I mained Old Freddy back in the day and despite how laughably weak he is, loved playing him. A gen teleport wouldn't work with his power, though; survivors who wake up by failing a skill check at a gen will just have Freddy teleport to that gen and immediately put them back to sleep.

I don't see a problem with that. Freddy's teleport has a cool-down, and there is time to hide before he gets there. Besides, he had to put people to sleep to hit them, and a few extra chances of doing that certainly wouldn't hurt. 

Man_of_triangles

I'm not being paid so I'm not going to expend the energy to come up with a rework, but I think Myers is most in need of total rework. He was designed for October of 2016 and it shows.

gilgamer

i would revert the Billy nerf completely minus the add ons

NMCKE

@onemind said:

Limitations

1 you cannot remove a part of their power completely

2 you can't only change addons/addon pass

I'd massively change Wraith to make him more dynamic than just 'invisible' and 'not invisible'.

Allow Wraith to place Lost Spirits, basically they act like a light source. Once the Wraith crosses paths with a Lost Spirit, he automatically uncloaks without any penalties, allowing him to do unique things like hitting survivors as he uncloaks.

JovialCub

Its sad that they made their first licensed killer go into dumpster tier.

I would rework the development team and not let iconic franchise killers be reduced to broke, filled with bugs, special rules to inhibit them, probably license blackmail, uncompetitive and fun fun mostly.

-Michael Myers

onemind

@JovialCub said:

Its sad that they made their first licensed killer go into dumpster tier.

I would rework the development team and not let iconic franchise killers be reduced to broke, filled with bugs, special rules to inhibit them, probably license blackmail, uncompetitive and fun fun mostly.

-Michael Myers

Not even that he is just very outdated especially as exposed and one hits became more common on killers

onemind

Current listing or most desired reworks

1 legion

2 myers

3 freddy

4 billy

5 wraith

Keezo

Legion

Simply giving them a secondary power they can use to actually do something after people are injured

tenoresax

Myers 100%

It's disrespectful how underpowered Michael f**king Myers is, he's essentially just a weaker version of Oni

Phasmamain

Nurse is 110% move speed but cannot blink through walls

MadLordJack

Spirit.

Remove the basic Passive Phasing and replace if with Active Phasing, a secondary movement mode that makes her Pase Walk recharge slower but gives you the benefits of Passive Phasing.

Phase walk has its speed reduced as well as quicker activation speed, shows the killer a Killer Instinct reveal of all survivors within her TR but has no sound or scratchmarks, survivors see her entire Husk glow and see Spirit herself as a Wraith shimmer while also hearing her breathing.

Squirrel_Thicc

Nothing in the world would make me happier than to nerf the ######### out of oni tbh

onemind

@MadLordJack said:

Spirit.

Remove the basic Passive Phasing and replace if with Active Phasing, a secondary movement mode that makes her Pase Walk recharge slower but gives you the benefits of Passive Phasing.

Phase walk has its speed reduced as well as quicker activation speed, shows the killer a Killer Instinct reveal of all survivors within her TR but has no sound or scratchmarks, survivors see her entire Husk glow and see Spirit herself as a Wraith shimmer while also hearing her breathing.

Thia sounds interesting but I'm confused can you explain more?

TicTac

I think Myers. Myers needs a secondary power or he needs to be nearly unstoppable in T3. Only buffing his T1 wouldnt be enough.

Dustin

It would be a tossup between Myers and Trapper specifically because of how long both of their powers take to setup and use. Admittedly I'd lean more towards Myers in this case.

White_Owl

Trapper, since he's outdated af. Aside from the changes everyone wants (start the match with all traps for example) I would add skillchecks to disarming beartraps and struggling should be an action with a fixed time (plus skillchecks), so Unnerving Presence could have some synergy with the killer it comes from. I would also give him a huge speed boost when someone is stuck on a trap so he could reach them more easily. Basically I want walking away after stepping in a trap to be a rare occurrence kinda like wiggling out, I want beartraps to be scary. I would also make them bigger, so they can effectively shut down corridors.

RenDesune

Myers, I wouldn't know how to fix him but he needs something reworked. His tier building is just not optimal, his tier 3 is strong but it takes too long to get to it

MadLordJack

@onemind said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2155716#Comment_2155716

Thia sounds interesting but I'm confused can you explain more?

Spirit has a passive phasing ability that makes her randomly turn invisible for half a second every few seconds. I'd rework it so that it's an alternate stance mode like Old Doctor, but instead of changing her movement speed it changes the recovery rate of her Phase Walk power. To compensate I'd buff the frequency and duration of the invisibility while it's active.

Her main problem with her power isn't that it's strong, it's that it makes survivors dumb without really impacting the Spirit. It also screws over people that don't use good sounds. Removing the audio component, and the scratchmarks, and replacing them with Killer Instinct would remove her reliance on sound. Killer Instinct is a strong info effect, so tie it to her TR. It's not extremely precise, however, so survivors really can just move like insane people and a mediocre Spirit will not know what's going on. Because the Killer I stinct is tied to her TR survivors can escape her by leaving it. To stop survivors from just holding W and leaving her TR, Spirit would have to go into her power quicker. To compensate for that, her movement speed while phasewalking would need reduced. Overall, this power is stronger than her current power, so it should have a longer cooldown time.

And then we come to the most annoying aspect of her power, her complete lack of information given. Making her husk glow while she's phasewalking tells survivors she's phasewalking. Giving her Wraith's shimmer effect shows where she is, though I'd make it a lot weaker than Wraiths shimmer, more of a faint haze than a cloaked Predator. Letting survivors hear her breathing was a bug from a while ago that I really liked because it was fun to use it to mindgame survivors, and it gave survivors a little info.

onemind

@MadLordJack said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156115#Comment_2156115

Spirit has a passive phasing ability that makes her randomly turn invisible for half a second every few seconds. I'd rework it so that it's an alternate stance mode like Old Doctor, but instead of changing her movement speed it changes the recovery rate of her Phase Walk power. To compensate I'd buff the frequency and duration of the invisibility while it's active.

Her main problem with her power isn't that it's strong, it's that it makes survivors dumb without really impacting the Spirit. It also screws over people that don't use good sounds. Removing the audio component, and the scratchmarks, and replacing them with Killer Instinct would remove her reliance on sound. Killer Instinct is a strong info effect, so tie it to her TR. It's not extremely precise, however, so survivors really can just move like insane people and a mediocre Spirit will not know what's going on. Because the Killer I stinct is tied to her TR survivors can escape her by leaving it. To stop survivors from just holding W and leaving her TR, Spirit would have to go into her power quicker. To compensate for that, her movement speed while phasewalking would need reduced. Overall, this power is stronger than her current power, so it should have a longer cooldown time.

And then we come to the most annoying aspect of her power, her complete lack of information given. Making her husk glow while she's phasewalking tells survivors she's phasewalking. Giving her Wraith's shimmer effect shows where she is, though I'd make it a lot weaker than Wraiths shimmer, more of a faint haze than a cloaked Predator. Letting survivors hear her breathing was a bug from a while ago that I really liked because it was fun to use it to mindgame survivors, and it gave survivors a little info.

So sorta like phasing but she glows has no sound or scratch Mark's and you have to try and confuse her with killer instinct while getting out of her terror radius and you can hear her?

I do that would make her weaker at loops where you can see her otherwise they would stand behind a wall but the tr requirement seems odd

Nvm alternative stance like old doc that makes more sense

I like that

MadLordJack

@onemind said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2156750#Comment_2156750

So sorta like phasing but she glows has no sound or scratch Mark's and you have to try and confuse her with killer instinct while getting out of her terror radius and you can hear her?

I do that would make her weaker at loops where you can see her otherwise they would stand behind a wall but the tr requirement seems odd

If it wasn't tied to something, she would see where everyone on the map is and basically be a better info killer than Doctor.

katapad

Trapper, definitely.

Keep the theme, change the power. Focus on making him more versatile, and make up for his lack of threat when he is out of traps.

The Trapper has 4 types of traps - tripwire, beartrap, barbed wire and explosive. They would be contextual based on what the Trapper is interacting with.

• Tripwire - can only be set in doorways or windows. Very difficult to spot, inflicts hindered on survivors. Addons would add additional conditions/injury. Triggers an alert to the trapper when activated/disarmed.
• Beartrap - same function as now, adjust the hitbox a bit so they can't be walked around as easily.
• Barbed Wire - can only be placed on generators or totems. Completely visible. Must be removed by skill checks (similar to pig boxes) to interact with the objective. Addons would add additional conditions/injury on failure of skill checks. Triggers an alert to the trapper only when a skill check is failed.
• Explosive - can only be set on pallets. Fairly easy to spot, but not impossible to miss (something like a blinking red light on the pallet). Detonates on pallet use (vault or drop), breaking the pallet instantly. Addons would add additional conditions/injury. Triggers an alert to the trapper when activated/disarmed.

One type of each trap is randomly spawned in the map at the beginning of the match, outside of the trapper's terror radius. A maximum of 8 of any type of trap can be on the map at one time.

The Trapper now carries trap kits instead of traps. Trap kits can be used to deploy any of the four types of traps, and can be replenished at lockers. Two (three?) can be carried at a time.

When the Trapper is not carrying any trap kits, Trapper's Fury is activated.

• Trapper's Fury - when not carrying any trap kits, the Trapper's movement, vaulting, and breaking speeds are increased. Trapper's Fury is deactivated and goes on cooldown when a survivor is injured by a basic attack.

Predated

@onemind said:

Limitations

1 you cannot remove a part of their power completely

2 you can't only change addons/addon pass

I've been playing Myers a lot the past few months to the point where I've ended up quitting him because map reworks have done him very dirty.

So lets see the list of changes I would make:

1. The stalk movementspeed addons need a buff.
2. He should be able to stalk multiple survivors at once.
3. Distance should have less effect on his stalk rates.
4. You shouldnt be able to walk through him.
5. His footsteps need to be softer when in T1.
6. His T1 addon needs an increase in movementspeed.
7. His T2 addon should not slow him down(he still has a red stain and you can read his aura, especially with the new OoO)
8. His purple instakill addon needs to be removed, it should be only his pink one, instead, the Tombstone Piece should increase the range of his lunge(essentially his t2 lunge being roughly equal to his t3 lunge, while his t3 lunge would be equal to a coup lunge, which sounds insane, sure, but considering Spirit can run NOED, I dont think its too insane).
9. His needs addons affecting vault speed(I mean, he is the one killer that has a basekit quicker vault)
10. His brown addons need to actually do something, rather than being worthless versions of yellow addons and an addon that should enable a (shorter) lunge while in T1, meaning he could actually use a perk like Coup while in t1.
11. The reflective fragments should work similar to Oni's Bloody Glove, cumulative rather than flat.
12. If a survivor with stalk points dies, their remaining stalkpoints should be divided evenly over remaining survivors.
13. In the case that point 12, 2 and 3 make it potentially too powerful, the stalk requirements across the board for unlocking longer T3 or the pink instakill can be upped a bit(tbh, I think it's quite fair if both pink addons in this scenario would require the full 40 points rather than only 30 points, as he can reach it much faster while stalking multiple people, meaning each pink addon would add 15 points instead of 10 points each).
14. Addons that actually increase the available Evil in the game. Regardless of the logic here, Myers is still an M1 killer, and we have killers with similar mobility(Bubba) that always have access to an instadown. Or killers with a similar ability of bodyblocking a survivor and instadowning them because of their ability(Huntress with Iri head, Oni, Plague, Trapper, Billy, Bubba, Oni, Ghostface, Twins(yes, Twins can bodyblock with her main body, then swap to victor to injure, while keeping a bodyblock and downing them after)). Or killers that can bodyblock survivors and easily catch up to survivors(Clown, Deathslinger, PH, Blight, Spirit, Nurse, Wraith, Huntress without Iri head, Hag, Freddy, Doctor). So I dont see how any addons improving Myers' existing basekit essentially broken. At best, he could be like Clown where he is insanely good in 1v1's, but isnt that good in map pressure.