Camping and tunneling
I know that Camping and tunneling are considered as a legit strategy, and i understand it when it is during the end game (2 generators left and beyond) but when the killer is camping and tunneling from the start of the trial, it's not fair for the survivor that is harassed by such a behavior and for the other survivors that will have to gen rush.
What are the results of those games ? There are 2 solutions :
- The other survivors are super friendly and altruists
They will try to save the camped/tunneled survivor, they won't do gens fast enough to do so and the killer will earn ton of points and will win the trial.
- The other survivors gen rush while the camped one stay on the hook as long as possible
They will succeed to do all gens and to escape. Killer will get 1k. Problem is the camped survivor trial is ruined; the other survivors won't get much point, they might Depipe cause they did nothing but gen rush and the killer migh still have enough point to save pipe if the first survivor gave him a good chase and if after the 1st hooked surv died the killer got some more points chasing the survivors left.
For the survivors, in both cases they are punished whiled it is the killer's fault if the trial was terrible and not fun to play.
For the killer, it won't be a big deal. So when is the killer punished for such behavior ?
Honestly, in EU red ranks, there are ton and ton of killers camping and tunneling, it's been a plague for years now and they continue to do so. Why ? Because there is no punishment. A killer playing like this should de-pipe 100% of the time to green rank. How is it possible to have 70% of red rank killers playing like this ?
I'm pissed that developpers didn't adress this issue. I'm doing ok soloQing, but most of the time a survivor is tunneled and camped in the trials i play...
You should really look into this issue cause there is a survivor suiciding on hook 1 game out of 2 atm...
Comments
That isn't factoring in travel time or people working on gens together.
That's just bad luck I'm afraid
Do you know killers are generally punished for playing fair? Playing fair (AKA going for 12 hooks) basically means you're planning to lose the game unless you're vastly better than survivors. Against survivors with equal skill you simply don't have enough time to play fair.
More killers will be inclined to play fair if they have more time to work with.
The problem is they usually don't care how many blood points they get or if they pip or not so it wouldn't make any difference.
"But it's a team of 4 survivors, and most won't gen rush, even in red ranks."
Oh, I wish I could go against such teams. Most survivors will gen rush if they can, especially in red ranks. My last game literally had 2 toolboxes, one of them with a BNP.
Yup, they can do all five gens but as you know, when not playing in SWF, there is no communication so then survivors will need to confirm that the killer is camping, and still some will still try to help instead of doing gens.
As 90% of the games are not SWF (stats can be found somewhere), then 90% of the time the killer ends up winning the trial with this crap mechanic.
Ye but you forgot many things :
Please provide the stats instead of telling others to look for it.
And if a survivor isn't doing gens, while a Killer is camping, the survivor is part of the problem. Having a bit of game sense shouldn't be hard to determine if the killer isn't leaving the hook. If the hooked one has Kindred, even better.
Camping is a boring tactic, but if its working, it's not the killers fault.
I never see a Killer camping the first or second hook, specially when gen speed is fastest than ever.
If the killer camps the firsts hooks, just rush the gens and leave. Punish the killer for that behaviour instead of asking devs to do so. It takes less than 30 seconds to do a gen with 2 people working on it + prove thyself.
I always like to go for 12 hooks, constantly chasing people, and they still rush the gens. I can't imagine camping being effective in this boring and fast meta.
First of all how would any of this not be abusable against normal or friendly (12 hook) killer?
The slowdown on proximity approach was already tried --> survivor looped around the hook and abused it
old but had this protection for both rescuer and rescuer leaving the killer without any chance for counterplay.
And your anti tunnel idea doesn't sound much less oppressive/abusable.
Want there this little overall known signal of aerobic exercises or playing flappy bird being hook camped? Every survivor can see that and only if the killer hides from the hooked survivor it would not work, given they run insidious or any other type of stealth otherwise their tr will reveal the camp to the hooked survivor.
I've been saying this forever... But the guy being camped has ZERO incentive to stick around instead of killing themselves on hook. Give them distraction points or something. That's how you punish camping.
Here's a PSA... it is not the killer's role to make the game fun for you!! You do that yourself. The killer plays for their own amusement (which may or may not involve making the game fun for you, but is certainly not obligated upon them).
I had my dose dbd for today and for F sake, this game is broken. Again I played around 10 games EU server. 8-9/10 against red rank tunneling proxy/facecamper. No fun at all as a soloq survivor. This behavior is a F plague imao. But hey it's a legit strategy! edit: doesn't matter which perks you re running, ds/borrow/kindred.., 300 or 3k hours experience... nothing helps when a killer is determined to camp (from the beginning of the trail). I think this is a great idea: [...Preferably as part of the base kit, they could have it so that the hook speed is significantly decreased while the killer is in close proximity.].. and may be DS (obv nerfed form) could be in survivor base kit xD
and make the hook speed faster when survivors are nearby and killer away
normal speed if killer and survivors are nearby camping hook
perfect balanced comment 👌
How do you guys carry the rulebook?
It's so bloated and heavy :(
Well, that's why we base it off of proximity. It's hard to get the conditions really fine-tailored enough to actually point of real camping, but most 12 hook killers won't be spending too much time around hooks. They'll be coming in to intercept hooks, or looking around for survivors near the hook, which is why it would just slow down the hook progress and immediately stop after they leave.
Plus, if you're really having that much trouble getting a survivor who's looping near the hook, it's not that much of a curse. Not only are you depriving them of a survivor, while pressuring them at the same time, you still do get to protect the hook. It'll be much slower, mind you, but it wouldn't punish the hooked survivor for having another survivor loop near them. Either that or you could prevent the slowdown from happening if the killer is in chase with another survivor nearby.
I assume you mean old BT. You forgot to mention that old BT proced once. This time, it would take up a second perk slot and you could probably tailor it to be more selective. Perhaps require that the killer maintain a specific amount of distance from the survivor in order for it to activate.
As for the anti-tunnel suggestion, the point isn't to not be oppressive. The point is to be so oppressive that if it gets to that point, then it'll proc, because at that point you're getting mercilessly tunneled and there's no need to go soft. It's incredibly hard to get it to proc, because tunneling is relatively rare, but if it does, it should aim to cripple. Plus, the easy counter is to just not commit to ludicrously long chases. Unlike DS, which is still abusable (even after the changes), this would be based off of a more rigid definition of tunneling, not hooks.
Moreover, because it requires you to get chased for so long, meaning you have loop decently, I'm also not getting your complaints about it being "abusable." Plus, just the presence of this perk would discourage tunneling. The knowledge that the killer could invest so much time into a tunnel, just to have it invalidated, would be a deterrent enough of it's own.
Today, 10 trials played, only red rank killers, EU server.
7 tunnelers & campers, only 3 played fair. I was in soloQ, there were no TBag or taunt from survivors from what i saw.
It's like this every day :), so enjoyable. Of course, i was not the exclusive victim, in some trials some other survivors were camped and tunneled and i could escape but still, boring trial : gen rush, open the door, escape. Clap Clap what a gameplay.
Are you aware of confirmation bias?
You guys on this forum have clearly problems.
In fact, everytime someone is stating something, someone can do stats about 200 trials in soloQ it will still not be enough when it doesn't go your way.
Even official stats showing that the game is clearly killer sided for any killer it's not enough and it's wrong and stats doesn't mirror the reality blabla, you know things that someone who never graduated in college or at all will say :).
So listen i have around 1200h as a survivor. Last month i have played around 100h, purple rank for the first few games after the reset till i get to red ranks. The vast majority of the trials have been against campers and tunnelers. So what will you say now ? That's it's not true but who do you think you are ? Honestly, who are you to insinuate that what i see is an intellectual construct which is wrong ?
There have been thousands of thread about camping and tunneling, that it is a plague, go check for yourself on steam and on this forum. Behind a screen you all have a big mouth but IRL you are all loosers, it is obvious as ppl bullying and being over sarcastic on a forum clearly have a crap life to behave so on itnernet.
It's not punishing the killer lol. You are all reacting like kids. How old are you guys ? 15 ?
It's to rework killers that cause this problem. If ppl massively DC/suicide against specific killers, the problem comes from the killers, not the survivor suiciding.
Why do they do this ? Because it's fun to wait for a game for 10 minutes and then instantly suicide to wait another 10 minutes ? How selfish are you to just see the world from your little person because you want to be comfortable and you don't care about the others.
They do this for 2 reasons :
What is the point to fight against someone with a gun if you only have a knife ? Ah ye, not point at all.
Camping has been a problem for years now and DC/suicide became more common because new killers appeared and they are OP without any reliable counter, this induce more DC/suicides. Anyway, Dbd already lost 20000 peak players (PC only) in 3 months, let's see what happens next.
2 whole posts of way more text than I am prepared to read at work.
It was a simple question. You seem to go into every match expecting toxic play. As my grandpa used to say "whether you expect a good day or a bad day, you're right".
I'm sorry this game is causing you such stress. Maybe take a break from it, there's literally millions of other games to play.
3 games this morning.
1st one : 2 suicides first hoog vs gunslinger
2nd one : 1 suicide 1st hook gunslinger
3rd game : 1 suicide first hook Stridor Spirit
Honestly, every game it's a ######### Stridor Spirit or Gunslinger these days, every ######### games. How is it fun to play over and over again against the same killers ? All the time ?
Don't blame the killer
Blame swf
Most killers will have bad experience with swf and then camp any survivor next time so blame swf every problems in the game can be linked with swf.
There is no SWF in this game, it's not even 5% of the trials. Stats were released few months ago...
My friends that are deep fan of this game doesn't even play it on a regular basis anymore, they can't bear it anymore. Everytime they play it, after 2 to 3 trials they rage, the state of the game is terrible.
Those developers, letting OP killers available make terrible choices.
On other games, when a character is OP it is disabled. What does BHVR ? They let them and set a penalty ban lol...
Well that's a lie because 95% of my matches are swf
I know because they invite me to their comms after I camp them. If you think swf isn't the source of all the issues we done I'm opting out of any mentions you may place.
So your personal experiences as to be taken as gospel, but his can be immediately dismissed?
Also, who is this gunslinger you keep mentioning? I've never seen one and can't even pick him to play as. I've got a deathslinger, but that can't be right, because playing against him is a laugh, with his slow tow chain and how easy he can be stopped by pre-dropping pallets.
As Trapper main, Im sure that being good at low tier Killer is much better than dont know what to do with high tier Killer. I can play Trapper day & night. Its fun when playing something that effective, either main a Killer or tunneling, camping.
Though I agree that tunneling, camping isnt fun (I only do in late game). To me its not about punishing Killer for camping by rushing Gen ect. Its about the fun for the tunneled, camped survivor. If I was camped, ok may be Im willing to stay on hook, look at the internet, but I dont want to slam Space bar for a min.
Any survivor that willing to stay on hook for 2mins while being camped, I really appreciate them. Any survivor just suicide on hook, I dont blame them. No one should pay 2min per game only to stay on hook waiting to die. They own the game, they can play how they want (you can say the same with Killer can tunnel, camping because they can play how they want).
Its the dev's fault. Players only play the most effective way as possible.
That's not a good argument because there is no ties between solo q survivor players. There is no obligation to stay on the hook and not go next. If there was, what you're saying would have merit.
There's a difference between what survivors should do in theory and what they actually do in game (solo q). Nothing feels worse than a camped first hook that makes them kill themselves on hook and bad killer player unfairly win. It feels terrible. You need to understand that.
You can't polish a turd. Something would have to change gameplay wise.
I'm not sure what gameplay change would make people want to play as a team just because they are on one. In OW it was "how to keep players on objectives" here it's "how to keep players from killing themselves" which is... An odd problem. I've suggested before a bonus based on how many survivors escape at end of match, but I'm not sure t would be enough for those who refuse to work as a team just because they don't know their teammates
People value their rank much more in OW than they do in DBD. Perhaps start there. It's too easy to rank up.
I'll give you an anecdote. Back when I used to play CSGO primarily I managed to climb to SMFC. At those ranks it's like your life is on the line if you ######### up. Valve one day looked at the rank distribution and went: "there's too much skew towards higher ranked players" everyone was dropped like 4 ranks instantly. Suddenly the 0.01% top CSGO players were matched with the top 5% players (me). It was like these 0.01% players finances and marriages were on the line to get back up to the top rank again. Do you think these players would give up on hook? (a lot of them were solo q streamers too). Of course they wouldn't but for what Pulsar is saying to be feasible, you need serious players.
I'm also at wit's end to think of a real gameplay change to implement that wouldn't benefit only one side. I was just pointing out that what @Pulsar is saying is survivors just need to change their attitude. There. Fixed.
The only thing that changes attitudes is gameplay.
The rank system could be something actually... Always good talking with you, because you always have ideas and reasons for them.