Add a punishment for camping
In these past few days I have been camped without and today I had enough. I hop on dbd for two hours... (half of it was queue time) I have been camped without mercy. I tried to bring party streamers but they’d rather throw away the points just to get me out the game and back to the long queue please change this
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Yeah, I understand you. Today I was facecamped 7 out of 8 matches I played. One of the matches I was the first person hooked and gladly everyone took the time to complete the gens and even got to save me in the end... but yeah. There are days that all killers want to do is facecamp and hope people fall on their tricks.
Or not, you could instead make base game protection for it. But BHVR doesn't want to move away from perks fixing the major issues, so it'll never happen
The punishment is there, just push gens, from first hook to death is 120 seconds, if someone gets facecamped and the other 3 keep working you can finish at least 3 gens and get some work on at least 1 or 2, even more if the gens were already at a decent progression %.
The problem as always is Solo queue since they cant comunicate the team cant punish the Killer for it, its not that there is no punishment for facecamping is that the most affected by it (Solo queuers) cant dish it out because they lack information.
They tried a punishment for camping and the survivors abused it heavily.
This right here. It's one of the reasons why I always run kindred when I solo que. There is a counter for face camping already. The survivor community just isn't doing it.
I played dbd from around 2PM until about 7:30PM and haven't had one camper. I play the same hours almost everyday except weekends, where I don't play much at all. In a week, I may get camped at most, 2-3 times. Either you have really bad luck, looped the killer long enough for multiple gens to pop or were toxic enough to warrant a camp.
If you just have bad luck, sorry, that's just how it is some times. If you looped the killer long enough for multiple gens to pop, congratulations, you played the game and did better than the killer. If your team does what they're supposed to, they should have plenty of time to finish the remaining gens and leave while you're getting camped, which is punishment enough for the killer. If more survivors would just stop feeding into a camping killers strategy, less and less would do it. I tried it once with my doctor, where I camped the first person I downed and it was just totally boring and am discouraged from doing it again.
If you were toxic, you deserve the camp. I'm not saying you were, but it's usually the number one reason anyone camps, that or the killer is just trolling.
The best thing anyone can do about camping is to learn how to loop the killer for as long as possible. With how fast gens pop, it's very easy for a good survivor to loop the killer for 3 gens. Once you get downed and camped, two gens should fly by and someone can either rescue you with BT or the remaining 3 people could just leave and punish the killer with the lack of points gained.
If you're bad at looping, then that's all you. You have the option of playing stealthily and not getting caught or learn to loop better. The player behind the killer is under no obligation to make it easier for you or to provide you with a fun match. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at try hard survivors who took advantage of everything the devs have tried to implement to prevent or discourage camping. As a result, the devs didn't implement anything other than a lack of blood points for the killer.
What you are experiencing is the Potato's Lament. We all had to go through it. New Killers, just like new Survivors don't know much. They aren't very good at hunting. They don't know how to patrol Generators effectively, and cannot take full advantage of their speed in 1v1 chases yet. They also don't have a huge array of Perks yet to help them find those pesky Survivors. So if/when they get someone on the hook, they think that "a bird in hand is better than two in the bush." This isn't true actually. Camping is bad for new Killers because it:
New Killers don't yet understand that they should want you to get off that hook, so they can hook you again. The game rewards more chases, more hits, and more hooks. Chances are if you caught that person once, you will catch them again. You need to be out there learning how to find the other Survivors. You also don't want to scare off potential rescuers. Remember, every Survivor going to unhook someone is not working on Generators. Potato Killers whose close proximity to the hook prevents people from trying to rescue only hurts them.
There is good news Potato Survivors; this too shall pass. As Killers get better, they tend to "face camp" (what I call Squatting) less and less. Why? Natural selection. It doesn't take too long to figure out it isn't a productive tactic in "most" situations. Best of all, you can help cure them of the habit. It doesn't require punishments or long, loud diatribes here on the forum. This is an in-game behavior and it is best dealt with by in-game solutions. I warn you, however, it is a harsh and unforgiving method. It does work. Please consider the following:
Are there things that can go wrong? Sure. Might the Killer just get lucky? Absolutely. But if you apply these tactics every time you get a Face Camper at the start of a match, you will get reliable results. You just have to overcome your own potato-ness. So stop crouching around the map and hiding in lockers and at the perimeter. Time is precious; every second you are not on a Generator while a Face Camper is sitting on your friend is an insult to that player's sacrifice. That player is doing the tedious duty of holding up the Killer for two minutes so YOU can get out. Don't be a jerk and waste it.
Now, some Potato Killers (particularly as they start to learn over the course of a few matches) start freaking out when Generators start popping all over the place. They just might leave that poor, unfortunate soul. When that happens, adapt your strategy. ONE (and no more) of you that is closest should go make the rescue if you can do it SAFELY. The other two work Generators. If one of you doesn't have a Generator to work, you kill Totems. Don't waste time. That should always be your mantra. Every second you aren't doing "something" is ceding ground to the Killer. One of the most infuriating things for the poor person on the hook to see is a bunch of you rummaging through chests, self healing in the middle of nowhere, crouching around, and so on. I never get mad a Killer doing his/her job. I get mad at idiotic Survivors wasting my sacrifice on their behalf. Just don't let it tilt you. Do NOT disconnect or suicide on the hook. Remember that these Survivors (like a Potato Killer) just don't know any better. They can't learn if you don't buy them time to do so.
Last but not least, I know a bunch of you have had some rough experience. Do not forget that I also have been where you are now. Everyone playing this game has had to go through it. I know you want to rage against the machine, demand punishments, scream about "toxic" Killers and all that jazz. Some of you will want to argue with me and tell me I'm wrong, or that I am not showing enough empathy for your experience. That isn't true. I wouldn't waste all this time posting if I didn't want to help you. There are just some things you must learn to accept to get past the frustration of being camped, tunneled, slugged, or even hit with a Mori.
Great post. However
1: It's been proven that if enough people scream about something the devs will cave in to their demands from time to time. Prime example is the Freddy nerf shortly after release. I still agree self improvement is the best method.
2: I remember the old days where video games were actually difficult. They made them that way because technology was limited. Therefore the games were very short. So they had to make them difficult so you didn't breeze through it. Only games like Darksouls and Bloodborne actually remind me of the difficulty of the old games.
Perhaps, but I'm not certain it is the screaming that moves the DEVs. I think they move in mysterious ways, and for their own reasons. That is why they fix things that nobody was asking for and ignore things for years that clearly over 90% of the people here agree on (Survivor or Killer). :) In fact, I think that screaming and ranting about things here is a diminishing return, not unlike too many people working one Generator. The din, the noise, the vile and entitled angst turns them off. It is so bad in many cases that any good suggestions are killed off along with the mostly bad emo garbage.
Of course the games you mention don't seem old me. I remember my excitement playing Pong for the first time, or Death Race 2000 in a Bowling alley. I drove around a black and white square (didn't look like a car) to try and run down stick figure men. Yeah, the first arcade games were black and white. Before they added color they would tint the screen for games like Star Castle. Games like Asteroids, PacMan, Centipede, and all the rest just got harder until they couldn't get any harder. You couldn't "finish" them. You just played till you died. The High Score was enough satisfaction. That is why I hope they put up a Leader Board once Rank no longer matters.
Not at all; in fact, following my advice speeds up the match against Face Campers because the idea is to get all five generators up in about five minutes and out the door. Faster matches, means quicker queues.
The problem isn't solo que, it's SwF. The game has no communication for a reason, yet the excuse as to why blatant camping is tolerated/allowed its that SwF exists, so 'just do gens, dummy' is always the response.
Balance the game around its original intent, not around 3-4 man pub stompers.
The punishment was ham-fisted and implemented well before any of the modern changes to the game were put in place (like Exhaustion, which would have kneecapped the abuse).
Not entirely true.
The hook progression stopped if the Killer was within X distance, so Survivors just looped around the hooked Survivor and the Killer could never get a kill.
Add a punishment for doing gens.
Add a punishment for opening the exit gate.
And as a follow up I went looking for this for you to give some context about old video games:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBBtt72aJLA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km8bc_oBRgkThey lose emblem points and by your own admission blood points too.
What punishment exactly do you think would stop someone from camping you to death?
100% true.
There were like 3-4 killers, infinite loops existed, sprint burst wasn't gated by exhausted or running and all that came together to make halting entity progression while X distance away an abusable strategy.
That's solved by:
*adding mobile killers (check)
*Eliminating infinite loops (check)
*Gating escape perks (check)
*Slowing, instead of halting entity progression
*Specifying the conditions for modifying entity progression
Speaking frankly, the attempt to punish camping was barely that, it was a half-baked idea tried in effectively the game's alpha release (compared to it's current state). So saying it had been tried and abused is at best misleading without context.
^ This guy gets it.
I also play way, way more than the average player and camping/tunneling is quite rare. I see a lot of games where the survivors on my team accuse the killer of camping/tunneling when it just wasn't the case. I really think people over exaggerate what is and isn't camping or tunneling.
Even the rare times there is camping or tunneling it's usually manageable if the person/team is skilled enough. IE timing saves, distracting the killer, or knowing how to loop well. Not to mention if you have even 1 person on gens during this time he is literally throwing the entire game to kill that 1 person.
Most the time it ends up being the survivor/survivors making bad plays and the killer simply capitalizing.
And again, that isn't entirely true.
Should the Killer be punished for Survivors hanging around near hook?
The system we have now works. It practically forces a de-pip if you stay close, meaning that Killer will continue to derank.
It's still 100% true.
Even if they reintroduced the same mechanism, with no changes, the ability for survivors to abuse it would be significantly reduced, due to the structural changes made since it's first implementation. However, there's no reason to completely halt entity progression and no reason the only condition for punishment be a simply X meters for Y seconds. Being in chase is just one of several factors that could (and should) effect this.
If the only response is "they'll just derank, so," then you don't have a case to not implement a punishment. The killers who are more likely to camp are also the killers less likely to care about their rank. That just forces experienced killers with toxic annoying behaviors to the lower ranks, you know, where the inexperienced and new players are. That creates a bad environment for these players, who either become frustrated and leave (lessening the overall pool of players over time) or develop bad habits (which creates a less skilled player pool over time).
~90% of the rebuttals to complaints over camping killers is 'do gens,' punishment in the form of longer entity timers reinforces that. More Survivors getting to EGC means more chances of 3-4 man escapes. Less overall kills means a faster derank and less BP for these killers. Eventually these killers will either stop camping and hunt, give up killer and play survivor or just repeatedly queue up every 5 minutes and give everyone free BP.
Except you kind of disproved your own point.
If experienced Killers are out to do this, they are well aware of the fact that they will get zero BP and will de-pip. No form of punishment is going to deter that. If they seek to be malicious, they WILL be malicious.
To my eyes, all this does is punish new Killers who don't know how to play yet. The current system works just fine. It shows the Killer, "hey, don't stay near these guys for too long without another Survivor present, okay?"
All your proposed changes do is make it even worse for new players who aren't trying to be malicious in their actions, they just don't know any better.
I've played most of these at my local arcade. I can confirm that they are difficult.
there already is a punishment, it's called "the other survivors not being dumb and just doing all the gens instead of trying to save"
If they added any 'punishment' for camping it would probably involve survivor queues hitting 30 minutes finally in the evenings where I play.
Wow that sucks man :( I'm sorry you got camped. Don't worry the big strong Entity will hold your hand as it walks you back to the campfire :( Next time make sure you bring your big boy perks so you don't get hurt :(
the only punishment they could give is immortality for the person on the hook and giving them the ability to kobe off the hook once the doors are powered while that immortality and also a complete loss of points for the killer, thats it
No, because my point isn't about experienced killers who want to earn BP and/or rank up, you brought up rank and how it supposedly deters the behavior. What I did was show why deranking and only deranking as punishment doesn't hurt the killers who don't care about getting to purple/red rank, which is why it's insufficient.
If you want to talk about punishing new killers, I fail to understand how having them not camp and instead chase some how hurts them more than it helps them, given you're not ever going to develop sitting on a hook (which is also true in the reverse for survivors). At that point, the concept of nudging applies and it applies in favor of a punishment, not the lack of one.
Really you're just throwing out minor excuses as to why annoying, toxic behavior that undermines the concept of the game shouldn't be dealt with. Saying an early attempt was mismanaged and abused is one thing, trying to argue new killers might feel bad, when it's already a hated thing for new and experienced survivors is just bassackwards reasoning: especially when the killer's role is to hunt, not play menacing statue.
We should be rewarding the killer for leaving not punishing them for staying..
Any punishment you put in play also screws over legitimate killers, even now killers get -1 or 2 for following a survivor to the hook before chase starts.
Can't expect much more from salty survivors though.
rewarding does not help against toxicity, in the end its a lost game all togehter but atleast a system can be put into place that completely removes any gain for the killer
but you need to defend the hook.
You are literally asking the dev's to put a magic safety bubble around the hook because you want easy unhook points.
You know how to deal with "camping" do ######### gens until the killer leaves instead of unhooking before they can even take 2 steps away from the hook.
You may not want to hear this...buuuuuuuut... camping is a strategy.
Blatant facecamping by killers is 100% a common occurrence thanks in part to powers and perks that can get around bt plays and or 1 hit down the rescuer. As long as these are in the game this boring games will continue to occur the only way to curb it is make bt a distance and time away from hook perk and not a terror radius perk. Oh and rework insidious, naturally. There is no punishment that will deter the one who facecamps.
My point was that no amount of punishment is going to stop people who do this on purpose. They want to ruin other people's experiences and nothing will stop them.
People who do not do that are either new to the game or put into a bad position where they have no other viable options. In those scenario's, the current system works just fine.
If you'd like to devise a system where we put people who are maliciously facecamping against the top 1% of Survivors as punishment, then I'd be down.
No it doesn't, because killers who don't stare into the eyes of their hated lovers also don't typically sit 15 meters in range of a hook for 2 minutes.
No one said punishment 100% eliminates an issue and no, malicious players are not the only ones who engage in the behavior. If it was done for malicious purposes, we wouldn't be having the discussion, because it'd be universally considered an unwanted, reportable behavior.
New players doing it is not an excuse to refrain from addressing it. Being caught in a pinch during EGC doesn't mean allowing it for the first hook. There are all kinds of provisions, conditions, ect that are not impossible or unreasonable to layer on so that 98% of the time only blatant, leg humping at hook gets punished.
If you're Ghost Face, hiding behind a corner playing bait&ambush, you can call that strategy. If you're Billy, playing ring around the rosy, that's not exactly Sun Zhu plays mate.
Oh sure. Punishment will resolve the issue and the queue times...
How about rewarding killers for leaving the hook? Punishment doesn´t work.
i mean if you camp you lose alot of points since the other survivors can just do all totems or gens