I'm worried for The Executioner
I'm going to keep this post brief and to the point, I do not believe the buff awarded to The Executioner in the future will be enough to compensate for his nerf. Allow me to explain.
These are the changes The Executioner will be receiving soon.
- Increasing the delay after cancelling Rites of Judgement before Pyramid can attack.
- Decreasing the delay after attacking with Punishment of the Damned.
Now before I start, I would like to say I am grateful that the developers have given us both a nerf and a buff to compensate. It shows that they are proceeding with these changes with caution, and it shows they are careful not to irritate the Executioner players and I appreciate that. Thank you.
My argument however is that I feel in this case his buff may not be enough to compensate for his nerf. Allow me to explain.
Rites of Judgment is powerful and very useful in disrupting and tracking Survivors, however it is Punishment of the Damned which feels the more rewarding. This is because Punishment of the Damned helps you down Survivors in the chase, saving you time and granting you leverage which is what all killers aim for in the match. Due to its short range, width, and long 5 second cooldown, you want to use this attack when you are certain it will hit, and what better way to do so then when a Survivor is proceeding to vault or drop a pallet? A good Executioner will achieve this even in average pallet loops by baiting the survivor, this is done by using their Rites of Judgement as the survivor is reaching their pallet, effectively playing a mindgame that is in your favor if played well. They drop the pallet or vault, then it is a guaranteed hit with Punishment of the Damned. If they decide to continue running, then simply get out of Rites of Judgement and use a basic attack.
To combat this, the developers are increasing the cooldown from cancelling Rites of Judgement and this troubles me. His short cooldown is what gives him strength, grants him flexibility during the chase and is what keeps him lethal. You won't see a Demigorgon charge their shred to disrupt a Survivor's running formation or bait them into dropping a pallet if they had a longer cooldown for canceling it as well, and the same argument goes for the Cannibal, Hillbilly, Clown, etc. A longer cooldown means a stricter use.
They will be decreasing the 5 second cooldown for using Punishment of the Damned to compensate, this is appreciated but I fear it is not enough. Because Punishment of the Damned is what will win chases, the developers must proceed these changes with high caution, as a nerf like this can largely weaken the Executioner in the long run. For a few days I have been contemplating and wondering how to manage this weakness, and I remain uncertain if these buffs will do the trick but here are my thoughts:
Decrease the Punishment of the Damned attack animation so that the attack lands quicker
OR
Increase the length of Punishment of the Damned.
Currently Punishment of the Damned sits at 12 meters, perhaps increasing it to 14 meters would be of great assist combined with the shorter cooldown. But I fear the shorter cooldown won't be enough to manage this, and ultimately like all of you I have no better choice then to wait and see how this plays. For now, I shall remain cautiously optimistic. I was in the middle of writing a post titled 'Executioner has no couterplay?' in which i go into detail how to play him and play against him, but this change has placed that post on pause.
Let me know how you feel about the changes to the Executioner, do you agree or disagree, and politely support your opinion as well. Let's keep this discussion civil and avoid the name calling please. Thank you for your time, and I'll will be seeing you... in the other side...
Comments
Oh yikes I've been summoned-
In my honest opinion, no they're not. Situations should always be that survivors and killers have an equal chance to succeed or fail a play. It's why L-T walls are regarded as the most balanced tile, and why short (in height), long loops are seen as bullshit. Pyramid Head forces a lose-lose unless you're playing for fun (which I do, 80% of the time) which isn't fair. It's all well and good saying that killers should be the power role but first and foremost it's a game, and games should be fun where everyone can win.
Edit: clarified what I meant because "short, long loops" made no sense
Thank you for your input karu it's always much appreciated. Especially from a pyramid head main himself.
I actually kinda want to draw that little scenario
You are the most annoying person here and given these forums I don't hand that title out lightly. Jesus Christ. Every post you act in bad faith and irritate people. The dude said nothing about that at all, yet you still jumped to conclusions. Just starting crap for no reason.
You were very polite, gave your opinion, and didn't act in bad faith. I have no idea why them and that other person behaved the way they did. You didn't even insult anyone.
Thank you. I actually have a bit of a temper now and then, but I do my best to maintain a polite and friendly atmosphere. I appreciate the kind words, but azame did agree with me in his reply afterwards.
We have a lot of negative people around the forums, so my idea is to keep a patient environment to control that. Not to challenge them or be rid of them, just to not react in a similar angry manner and show them to be more friendly. You know, the golden rule of treat others the way you would like to be treated.
Thank you again for the kind compliment 🙂
I was half being sarcastic if you didnt notice the last sentence. Also you dont really know me all you have seen are some internet text and never interacted with me personally. Dont make bold claims. He also pointed out I agreed with him :)
Read that for me now.
I'll be honest, when I heard PH was getting some work done that would include getting his PoD looked at, I was super excited. I was really hoping they'd change his turning for PoD along with the cooldown to compensate for his nerfs so that his PoD felt a lot smoother, and players could feel a bit more confident going for skill shots with more control.
I hope he gets a bit more before they push him to live. I really want him to still be decent.
I don't need to know you personally to think you're annoying, seeing you here and the few times I've interacted with you has shown me enough. However, out of respect for the OP I am backing away.
If it makes you feel better I enjoy your company and input..?
That makes me feel good as always I appreciate it karu.
I'll do the same as I have no real beef with you despite what you think about me.
Thinking about it, I took that pretty far. I apologize for that. That was uncool.
Nah it's cool man I can come off as rude but I dont mind the rude comments I'm used to it by now.
So I wonder how is The Executioner now that the PtB is live, did the change hurt him or can he manage to be strong still?
@ClickyClicky
You and I may not agree on everything but I agree with you here.
Right now I didn’t feel he was as terrible as I thought he might have felt in PTB. His power (without I’m All Ears) you are basically guessing and when you add those things that you’ve listed that’s when I say that I don’t think people understand how hard it is to use his power, because many times you are simple guessing where survivors are going to position themselves to.
I agree with you on his Punishment of the Damned, it is silly not to use it when Survivors are locked in an animation as well, isn't that the perfect time to use your power?
Reducing the cooldown helps, but I figured it would be minimal so the .5 second reduction is no surprise. Why not reduce it to a clean 2 seconds instead of 2.25?
Even then it won't be enough, I would say increase his control when using Rites of Judgement so that the attack isn't so predictable. Increase the speed of the animation so that it reduces the slight window a Survivor has to dodge it, and increase the range that he gets from his add-ons that affect it.
As of now his green add-on increases his range of attack by 1.5 meters totalling to 13.5 meters when added to his default 12 meter range. Increase the add on range to 4 meters, so he gets a 16 meter range instead with an add-on plus the lower cooldown. Or keep the cooldown and increase how fast his attack hits, I feel like these would be good steps in increasing the use for Punishment of the Damned overall.
As I said in my post, I do appreciate the developers for giving him something of a buff to make up for an increased cooldown, but in this case I don't think it is enough if you want players to use Punishment of the Damned more often.
But maybe I am being biased and giving him too much of a buff, what do you think?
So with the PTB live for a while we have our numbers.
The Executioner has reduced speed of 4.4m/s when exiting Rites of Judgement as well as having a 1 second cooldown before being able to attack. However, his Punishment of the Damned special attack has been reduced from 2.75 seconds to 2.25 seconds.
Do you guys feel like this change is good enough, or can more be improved upon for release?
Yeah pretty much no reason to ever use his ranged attack now. Just another M1 killer on the scrap heap. He'll keep Clown company at least.
Sad.
Sadly, it's true, survivors crying just to nerf him is sad, he got nerfed once and that's ok, now he's just useless, kinda like Gearhead, nerfed once and rendered useless
Why do killers have to be the only players that need 'skill' to perform their basic powers and mechanics though?
Why do the majority of Survivor mechanics not involve much 'skill' to them and are just 'run over and hit a button'? Not even talking about perks here.
Literally the issue was Survivors could not longer trust vaults or pallets in a chase if PH was directly behind them - instead being forced to eat a hit of some sort because they didn't come at a loop from a different angle to allow them to get through that loop point.
The compensations we got are pitiful. They should have widened his attack so 'side-stepping' wasn't a thing; you had to literally get out of the way to avoid it not just take one step to the left or right.