Being honest about DS
Ds isn't the "god mode" people describe and it most definitely isn't trash.
Ds is mostly fair, until those scenarios where you feel like if you chase anyone your "tunneling".
My personal main issue is that a person with ds up will farm another ds user in my face and it just feels stupid.
I think if it just was deactivated when someone was hooked or only the most recent hook got it then it would be balanced.
What do you think should happen to help make it feel less annoying?
Comments
Option 1 anything a survivor does besides healing or chase related things vaulting putting down pallets ect disables decisive strike.
Option 2 you can't recover while you have ds
The things bothering me about DS are
eating DS after the guy was healed up
survs forcing DS by locker jumping, body blocking or staying on an objective etc
Idk how to fix that but tbh I would completely change DS
When I hook survivor A, leave, find+chase+down+hook survivor B. Survivor A is saved during all this. Survivor A BT+DS saves Survivor B. I go after Survivor A thinking enough time has passed. I down Survivor A and they still have DS.
That's my issue with the perk. If I hook someone else Survivor A's DS should deactivate because I wasn't tunneling. They came to me. The people who say "The devs never said it was an anti tunnel perk so your arugment is invalid!" That makes it a 2nd chance perk which is even more broken.
Agreed
I hate hooking like 2 others and still getting dsd
I like that to help with ds unbreakable
Why are second chance perks inherently broken? Do you want them all removed?
I think DS should deactivate when you start unhooking someone.
I like your idea. You're on to something sir.
Jesus Christ......
As a killer and surv I think DS is a balanced perk:
Surv: I personally not worrying to much about being tunneled. And I am not being tunneled every single match,
so I'd rather use some other perk in that slot, like BT.
But there are times when killers keep tunneling match after match. Sometimes I see 3 hook camping huntress in a row,
so I'd rather use DS those days. I like those 5 seconds stun. This is enough time to escape, combined with other perks.
I don't want any change to DS if the change will reduce stun time.
Killer: I am usually not tunneling one. But that depends on situation. For instance, I have hooked Jake, and after being
unhooked, he start doing gen in front of me or rushes into the locker, because he knows he has DS... well..
I am gonna send this person to another lobby sooner.
I think DS is fair for both sides.
Keys and Mori are unfair. I would rather worry about that.
I've seen your posts before, I'm not trying to whine about ds or say its overpowed. I just wanted some ideas about what could be done and wanted to hear some other voices.
It's just that, it'll be nice to hear about NEW perks.
Like...I want to hear your Anti-Tunneling perk, something that would get survivors to say "Okay, I can use this instead."
Instead of asking for DS changes, or nerfs.
Get me?
DS is not for anti tunneling. It's not a second chance perk.
It's a yellow flag for unsafe unhooks. Don't want to be DS'd? Dont tunnel. Did you down the first survivor after hooking a second one already? Bring a green mori or use your kitchen timer. I literally tunnel Laurie until she's mori-able. Dont ever give DS a chance.
The issue with DS is always end user experiences. The perk is totally fine and very easy to play around. If you have a singular playstyle, that's fine, but don't expect your hard counters to adapt around you. You have to adapt around it, and no matter how DS "gets fixed", you are still going to face an adversarial element with that specific perk.
It's not anti tunneling, but how can you say it's not second chance? The survivor failed to escape, yet was still able to nullify the chase. That's a second chance perk right there.
You don't NEED to tunnel to be hit with DS. You can go through two other chases and still be hit with it. You can hunt down and hook somebody else, and still be hit with it. The survivor can hop on a gen and complete objectives, and still be protected by it.
Your answer to DS is a mori? That's almost a certifiable depip right there. No thank you.
But, that's abusable if people try to do a 1 for 1, the unhooked has DS, but the killer hooks the person who unhooked him, and then goes for him, which makes DS useless and unfair.
"survs forcing DS by locker jumping, body blocking or staying on an objective etc"
How does someone force?
Locker-->Dont open it? Or dont go for him in the first place?
Bodyblocking-->Slug?
Staying on Objective-->Lunge into Slug?
Wait for the killer to leave?
Actually, yes I do. DS, Adren, NOED. Take them all out. I feel they reward bad game play. Keep BT cause that's more for your teams benefit. I remember the days when that used to apply to both unhooker and hooked. That sucked ><
Thank God we have people like you.
I don't have to type all that out.
Take my upvote.
What if they're camping and none of you have borrowed? Your idea is inherently flawed. And regarding your second point, all 3 of those perks are fine, people complain about them because they don't have the skill to counter.
Second chance perks are here to stay. Deliverance, Unbreakable, Adrenaline, DS, BT, Dead Hard, Lithe, BL, Babysitter, Camaraderie, For the People, Breakout, Iron Will, Mettle of Man. Too many to remove, sadly :(
Yeah, I just want the game to be balanced on what it has now
How is DS not balanced? It makes tunneling harder for you?
I can't believe you guys are still talking about DS, while in-game we still have terrible matchmaking, breakgaming bugs like stucking in the place, teleporting from one side to another and that awful AA
I think for the most part it's fair, alot of people just farm hooks in my face and it gets abused. I think that should be fixed
Ah that's a reasonable complaint I suppose. It doesn't need a huge nerf in order to fix that problem though. What do you think of my suggestion?
Just disable it when someone else gets hooked, or if you unhook then your ds goes away. Just a few little things or make it infinite, its turns off if you work on a gen, take a protection hit or someone else gets hooked. Just my idea
DS going away when someone else gets hooked isn't a little thing...it literally removes one of its most important uses: saving yourself from bad teammates and camping killers. I don't think you play enough survivor to understand the impact your suggested changes would have :/
The second one is a change to that, if you unhook with ds then it goes away.
ok
Also, I am a killer main but I've been trying to be more balanced Recently
The problem with DS is that it last too long, and survivors will go out of their way to use the perk, just to punish the killer for being a killer, without any risk or down sides to the perk!
The community is in a uproar that the perk isn't a anti-tunneling perk, but the way it activates and the most effective way for it to be used is literally tunneling!
Imo either decrease the timer or give killers a way to deactivate the perk, with some kind of risk!
If the person who currently has DS wants to be risky and save another person hit them and down them... now you’ve got two slugged people NOT on gens, what’s the problem?
To all those people suggesting DS should deactivate after “X/Y/Z”, you want that then there needs to be an auto unbreakable to compensate excessive slugging because A) You are still going to slug, to slow down the game. B) You are now going to tunnel even more. C) Slugging isn’t a perk which means you have unlimited access to it.
If the killer is camping, for the most part, they are playing poorly. Or the gates are open and theres no way for them to down someone else before they get to the gate. If a killer is camping do gens and get out. Not all of your are suppose to escape according to the devs. Everyone busts killers wanting a 4k yet people think all 4 survivors should escape.
I have to agree.
As a survivor I only choose DS as an anti-tunneling (but honestly more so an anti-bad save perk)... 60 seconds of invincibility is too long though.
As killer, being able to do do literally every single killer action (chase, down, hook, kick gen, break pallet) and then down the same survivor and they still have DS?? That is insane... especially when there are only 2 or 3 survivors left, who else am I supposed to go for?
Also, an additional goal would be to make slugging less necessary. How are survivor mains saying to 'just slug'.. how boring.
The below is a simple change that still prevents tunneling, allows you to still make risky plays to try and save a mate, heal yourself and others, and also helps against tunneling. The trade off is that you either spend 60 seconds not doing objectives or you lose your free escape.
A better version of DS:
After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 40/50/60 seconds.
If another survivor is hooked, while you are NOT in the downed state, Decisive Strike deactivates.
Completing any Objective Actions will deactivate Decisive Strike.
While Decisive Strike is active, when grabbed by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check to automatically escape the Killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds.
Succeeding or failing the Skill Check will disable Decisive Strike.
Successfully stunning the Killer will result in you becoming the Obsession.
Increases your chances of being the Obsession.
Slugging wouldn't change at all. Despite being boring, it is still the best strategy at times. Tunneling won't change. If you have time to escape the killer and start working a gen, odds are you aren't getting tunneled.
Base unbreakable? Would be fine depending what they turn unbreakable into.
Honestly, DS is fine. Annoying at times but ok. Only change i would make is have it deactivate at endgame. Killer just has zero chance in an endgame situation if DS is in play.
@csandman1977
I am with you, I think DS is fine.
I fail to understand why some people have a hard time just slugging the DS person which has been proven to work PLUS you slow down the game. I just think at this point these DS discussions are getting out of hand, like everything doesn’t need to be nit-picked to a T.
As a killer if I wanna camp let me camp, or if I wanna tunnel let me tunnel... if the person brought a perk to counter that (good for them), I will adjust my playstyle accordingly. I just hate feeling like everyone needs to play “nice” or “fair” when it is a game and all you can do is adjust to each individual situation.
P.S. The reason I even brought up slugging is mostly because I think it is overly abused but not one soul that wants to talk about how DS is “unfun” wants to talk about that. Which is disgusting when you think about the fact that DS is a perk and Slugging is an in game feature available for every match.
I think the slugging comes down to matchmaking. I think a lot of killers, especially begginer or just newer killers, just always feel over their heads with constantly getting matched with people well above their skill level.
Slugging just helps control the game sometimes
@csandman1977
I don’t disagree of the ways in which slugging helps, cuz as much as I hate it, I do it sometimes.
I mostly see slugging in red ranks (which is where I’m at).
That's completely unrelated to my point. My point is that your idea is abusable as hell, not once did I ask for a method to counter camping, I already know to just rush gens. My scenario was listed to show how your idea is flawed.
Also, wait, wait. Hold up, you're assuming a lot here. You're assuming I'm a survivor main; I'm not, I play both sides equally, so don't imply that I believe 'all 4 survivors should escape', I believe the perfect game is 2 kills, 2 escapes, just as the devs do. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm survivor biased or that I am getting triggered over a killer for wanting a 4k, I can perfectly understand why they do even if I don't agree. Likewise, I understand why survivors believe all 4 should escape, even if I don't agree with it. At this point, you're just making unrelated assumptions and listing unrelated methods when they weren't wanted in the first place.
Respond to my point in a constructive, on topic way, or don't bother responding.
It's not strictly an anti-tunnel perk.
Forcing in the sense of that you want to use your DS as survivor, even if you dont get "tunneled".
Yeah right. If I find him again after 30 seconds because he feels free to do a gen in my face and then jump in the locker I just walk away. Sure thats how everyone likes to play killer.
I know you can slug and its CoUnTeRpLaY. But Imagine the game leads you to a playstyle you dont enjoy.
Idk about you, but I wouldnt promote slugging. Cant see any fun in it.
Nothing. DS works like it's supposed to.
I don't begin to understand the appeal of DS anyway. If you use it you are almost guaranteed to be tunneled afterward.