Shaderz
Shaderz
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- Shaderz
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@Xendritch said:
The only way you're hooking the same person 5 times is if you're hard tunneling.
Do you wanna talk about why you're hard tunneling?
Maybe because of the way the game is designed:
- Starting a trial
- Finding the first survivor
- Chasing him for 30 seconds
- Picking him up
- Carrying him to a hook
- Moving on to the next survivor
By then, if survivors are relatively efficient, which they mostly are in high MMR, 3 gens could've gone by already? So if I want to come back into the game and still win, tunneling is necessary to remove someone from the game and force a 3v1.
I don't think anyone is really being intellectually honest if they claim they've never found themselves in a similar situation as such. -
@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3016558#Comment_3016558
There are some differences.
- Endurance won’t stop non-damaging effects. For instance you can’t just run over Trapper’s traps with this version, they will stop and immobilize you. Likewise Plague’s pukes will still infect you, you can’t dodge Doctor’s shocks, Deathslinger’s harpoon will still reel you in, and so on.
- Although you will have about 4 meters of “safe distance” with this new perk your speed will not increase. So this could mean, for instance, whereas currently you could Dead Hard lunge toward a window and be out of range of the killer entirely, now in the same position if you try it and you are injured there’s a chance the killer will be close enough to grab you out of the window as you vault it bypassing the Endurance.
- You won’t be able to use this version to Dead Hard through a killer that is blocking you or to Dead Hard from one side of them to the other to throw them off.
Of course in terms of doing a last minute evasion to make sure you get to a pallet it’ll still work. But the nerf does have some impact.
This is pure blindsiding.
It's undeniable the perk is mostly used to allow oneself to reach a loop, whether that is a pallet or a window. What you outlined are rare, annoying occurrences that don't happen as often.
A one second endurance status on top of the dash forward animation (which I assume is going to be the perk's animation as shown in the picture above) is a major buff to the perk. It means even if you out-lunge the survivor's dead hard, they still manage to escape because of endurance, and presumably gain a speed boost because they technically still took a hit.
This perk should have no place in the game, and it should be nerfed to the ground. It's been suggested to prevent survivors from vaulting a window or throwing down a pallet for about 3 seconds after using the perk. This would have been the perfect solution, as it would require survivors to think their plays ahead and time the usage right in hopes to bait a potential swing from the killer.
As it stands, this perk is going to keep punishing killers for outplaying survivors, and rewarding survivors for messing up. Sad.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/327613/anti-teabagging-flashlight-clicking-system
These are only minor issues compared to killef facecamping/tunneling and hitting survivors on hook and making survivors just feel as miserable as possible. Those are much bigger issues does teabagging prevent you playing the game? Nope it's maybe annoying but when you hook them you can headnod and hit them on hook to payback. Flashlight clicking needs nerf that it can't ve done too fast and blinding also should be less bright cause some people are sensivite for these. Even I once got headache from someone clicking at me but I played too long anyway that time. But really facecamping and hitting survivor on hook are at least as much as toxic. You probably don't care about these issues as you only play killer but I play both sides and those are big problems.
I play both sides equally.
I'm not denying facecamping, hitting hooked survivors and slugging someone to death aren't toxic, but their existence shouldn't solely be reason to deny this suggestion
I don't believe teabagging and flashlight clicking are minor issues. They can seriously ruin someone's experience if done exhaustively. Ultimately, this leads to a decrease in player satisfaction, which is undesirable.
There's a reason most games out there have anti-teabagging systems. They would just add up to the overall toxicity within those games if they existed. Not to mention the underlying sexual reference.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992830#Comment_2992830
That doesn't change the fact that nothing needs to be done to these features, because they don't change anything about the outcome of the game
It's not about changing the outcome of the game, that's not the issue here.
The issue is how these features are toxic in nature. They bring no value to the game, in the sense that they don't help survivors loop the killer longer or repair generators faster. There's nothing about them that makes you go "okay yeah, they're really useful to the game".
Matches where teabagging and flashlight clicking take place often end up being more toxic than matches that don't, which is easily proven by the endgame chat.
This suggestion aims to make headway as a community in the sense that it will inevitably help reducing toxicity.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2992823#Comment_2992823
You could just...not take offense it
That's easier said than done. People react differently when confronting the same situation, so you shouldn't expect everyone to not take offense when somebody acts toxic towards them.
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@Crowman said:
5 seconds is pretty unreasonable for a cd on flashlights.
5 seconds is just a number, it's meant to explain how the system could work. I'd be fine with a 3-second cooldown, but probably no lower than that. Maybe make it work with rarities, so a yellow flashlight has a 5-second cooldown, but the purple one only has 3 seconds. Just throwing ideas back and forth.
@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/327613/anti-teabagging-flashlight-clicking-system
Say it once and I'll say it again, nothing in this game is toxic except the endgame chat, everything else is a "strategy"
Yeah, I don't think the "Hey, I'm going to act toxic and piss this killer off, so he gets mad and underperforms as a result of it" really is or should be any form of strategy in any game.
People play games to have fun. The moment an opponent goes out of their way to ruin your experience, the odds of not having fun increase. That's counter-productive and hampers any sort of progress.
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@PerfectlyPink said:
I'd only want an anti macro flashlight. Teabagging and regular flashlight clicking suck, but they're fine
Care to elaborate how they're fine? How are they useful to gameplay? What value do they bring to the game other than toxicity?
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In all honesty, I only play survivor when I'm playing with a friend or more. It's just boring for me after like 2 or 3 games of solo queueing.
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@brokedownpalace said:
Still a terrible idea.
You're entitled to your own opinion, but instead of just stating it, give us a suggestion on how we can potentially fix the issues that were brought up in this thread and that I personally believe that would be fixed by this killer perk.
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Bumping this.
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Because they are ridiculously overpowered, how is that hard to understand?
The biggest issue, in my opinion, is that they can't/couldn't get countered, as opposed to killer perks which you may find pretty buffed. Here are a few examples:
- Hex: Ruin: You can counter this perk by cleansing a determined totem.
- BBQ: You can counter this perk by hiding in a locker or getting closer to the killer.
- Nurse's Calling: You can counter this by healing yourself or a team mate far away from the killer.
Now for survivors, a lot of them can not or couldn't (before they got nerfed) get countered. Here are a few examples as well:
- Old Decisive Strike: Nearly impossible to counter unless you were very close to a hook so that you could dribble the downed survivor. However, any good team mate would easily body block you and most of the times take a hit for you, giving the survivor enough time to strike that skill check.
- Old Mettle of Man: You simply couldn't counter it. No matter what happened in the game, any survivor who used to run this perk would eventually end up getting another chance to escape the killer as soon as they hit you. In other words, MoM was extremely overpowered because not only did it allow the survivor to waste the killer even more time than they already did, but it basically punished the killer for doing his objective without any skill involved on the survivor's side (literally all you had to do was run the perk and bam, let it do all the work for you).
- Borrowed Time: This is quite debatable and I'm personally 50/50 on this. Once again, it gives survivors another chance to escape from the killer more than they are supposed to have. However, it prevents tunneling and punishes the killer for playing dirty and low. Killers can counter this by waiting a certain time before the perk's use time runs down, however, it is against the purpose of the game (survivors try to get hit so they can get that extra boost while killers don't do it because they suspect you might have it - this shouldn't happen, as killers should be encouraged to hit survivors and down them and survivors should try to escape, not catch a hit to gain an advantage over them - it's basically counter-intuitive).
I hope I was able to clarify some things for you.
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@luka2211 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/817894#Comment_817894
1 map made you think about leaving the game?Nice.Besides that,why is that map SO problematic?Only problem i find with it is that one barn window
You didn't get it. The way this map is so survivor-based is one of the countless problems that this game has which made me leave in the first place.
It's pretty much impossible to counter any good survivor here because:
1) Mindgaming (with the red stain especially) is nearly impossible because the killer is pretty much visible in every kind of loop there is in that map.
2) Enduring + spirit fury is not enough. By the time you catch up to another survivor after you used spirit fury, he's already in another pallet.
3) There are way too many loopable places and pallets way too close to one another.
It is just like as someone else referred to previously in this thread. The map consists of an "O", where the middle is full of corn and the loops are on the sides and corners of the map. So it gets easy for a survivor to go from loop to loop without being caught and even if he does, the game doesn't stop and many gens are already done.
What's worse about this map, and I've referred it in the main post, is that you need to rely on survivors' mistakes to actually win. Your skill alone isn't enough unless you're playing with a Nurse who can easily go through objects. But that's not the point here.
This map needs a HUGE nerf, so it stops being so survivor-based. Maybe make it like Rotten Fields, where it's pretty much an "O" as well in terms of loops, with the only difference being they are not as stupidly close to each other as they are in Fractured Cowshed.
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I'm bumping this thread. I have recently returned to Dead By Daylight because I really like the game but I'm honestly thinking about leaving again after playing on this map as a killer. It's so unbalanced and it's sad that they haven't fixed it since I first made this thread.
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I agree with all of those but Borrowed Time. It really is essential to counter tunneling. As for the others, I absolutely agree.
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@ClogWench said:
Sounds good to me honestly. Though you know survivors are gonna rally for an offering to increase Pallets
Probably, but it's not really doable. Don't forget that there are 4 survivors and only 1 killer. Imagine 4 survivors adding 4 of these offerings. They'd likely break the game. UNLESS these survivor offerings wouldn't stack. But still, there 4v1 still plays out a huge factor here.
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@Endorb said:
I do have a major concern though; if it effectively removes 1 generator from the game, then it leaves it open to completely unfair generator spawns. This could be fixed by just generating an 8th generator though. Also, this is definately a powerful perk, consuming 80 seconds from a survivor before considering factors that speed/slow base repair speed, plus giving them skill checks that they may fail. I'd say make it so the killer isn't alerted to the skill check fails on that gen
The point is to reduce gen rushing though so adding a 8th generator would be going against the actual purpose of this perk. We'd not fix anything, but simply add more fuel to the fire.
I'm okay with the killer not getting any skill check fail notifications or even not know what the "fake generator" actually is so the game plays out naturally as if the perk didn't exist and the killer just doesn't go like "oh this is the fake generator, I'll let them waste their time there and chase other survivors".
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@brokedownpalace said:
This is broken and every killer would run it. No. Losing 80 seconds (and that's if they only spend 80 seconds on it and the killer doesn't kick it, chase them around, have Ruin or PGTW, etc, etc) is absurd. Not to mention if the last two gens happened to be right next to each other because the "fake" gen was across the map then it would be impossible to get the killer away from it long enough to repair one of them. Even if they weren't close together patrolling 2 gens is way too easy.
I can't believe this got so many upvotes.
Just like every killer runs Ruin? We wouldn't be talking about perks like this if survivors didn't gen rush the ######### out of killers. It'd be a slap in their face for trying to play low, and on the other side give killers a second chance because why can survivors have so many second chances but killers can not, right?
You talk about how the repair progress can be decreased but forget the other side of the coin, as in how it can be increased. Toolboxes, action speed perks, teammates nearby, etc, etc. Again a slap in their face for trying to gen rush.
As for the last generators being close together, you can't blame the perk or the killer because of that, but survivors because their game sense is low and all they care about is to gen rush rather than know what gens should be and shouldn't be done so they don't end up together in the end. That's completely the survivor's fault.
This has got so many upvotes because it balances the game. Killers are ridiculously weak in this game, but this perk may the light at the end of the tunnel.
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No.
Make it so DS only activates for 60 seconds if the killer is within your terror radius instead of the way it is right now which remains active for 60 seconds no matter where the killer is. THAT is anti-tunneling. If the killer's not within your terror radius, there's barely any chance that he can tunnel you.
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Bump.
This is very needed.
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Just no. The hatch shouldn't even exist. It's just a stupid way of giving survivors more and more chances of escaping as if the current ones aren't already enough.
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Devs: Suggestion to make killers more balanced? Denied. Next.
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Right.
If you decide to decrease the killers' hitboxes, you should fix survivors' too, when they are bodyblocking killers in order to save their mates. Make them nearly like Freddy when survivors are not in the dream world.
If you fix killers bodyblocking survivors, you gotta fix survivors bodyblocking killers too. It's either that or nothing. Otherwise, the game will even more unbalanced than it already is.
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@Blueberry said:
It's just your rank. You need to practice more. Killers in this game are quite weak.
This. ^
I can almost guarantee you that you wouldn't make a similar thread if you were rank 1.
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@GrootDude said:
@Shaderz head on doesn’t work very often and other exhaustion perks are much better.
Because it's bugged. It's supposed to work normally after the upcoming patch though, as I've heard.
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Any perk that stuns the killer is absurd. Basically the killer is at the hands of survivors and they can stun him anytime they want (with the restrictions the perk brings along). It's simply toxic and doesn't have any proactive counterplay, before and after.
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@Peanits said:
I can honestly say I have never seen anyone relay to their buddies that the killer is using Beast of Prey. That would be silly. That would require having someone run over to watch you get chased when you could just use your peepers and watch for them yourself. Their terror radius doesn't disappear and you'd still be in a chase, you just wouldn't see the stain.
I won't disagree with all of the points you've listed, but when you list things that aren't true just for the sake of listing them, it doesn't make your point stronger, it actually makes it appear weaker.
All you need is a Claudette P3 who's also a wannabe ochido running after the killer like a chicken while holding a purple flashlight, waiting for her mate to get downed so she can flashlight save her. Just imagine them being like "DUUUUUUUUD THIS KILLER'S A BABY" and suddenly "OOOOH HIS RED STAIN DISAPPEARED HAHAHA HE HAS THAT PERK NOBODY USES, WHAT IS IT CALLED AGAIN? BEAST OF PREY YEAH THAT'S THE ONE, HE'S STILL AFTER YOU. DON'T STOP!".
I could bet you 10 bucks that this has already happened. The OP makes an excellent point in an unusual way. Sadly, it's the truth.
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Survivor: Mettle of Man, Decisive Strike, Head On, Adrenaline
Killer: NOED
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In my opinion, all toxic survivor and killer perks need to be removed. You can't vouch for a clean and friendly community and at the same time successively keep adding toxic perks. That's just hypocritical. Not adding anything is a lot better than adding things that will not only break the balance of the game but ruin it too.
DS isn't as broken as it was, that's a fact. It's a lot better than it was before but it's still slightly broken and I'm afraid it wasn't sufficiently nerfed. I'd say it needs to be reworked so the 60-second timer only activates if the killer is within your terror radius, so it ACTUALLY can help survivors in the event they're being tunneled.
Then again, I'd love to have it removed instead because it's still a toxic perk. But since I know it won't happen, that is what I suggest.
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It does and it needs to be nerfed if not completely removed, in my opinion. But if perks like MoM or DS are going to remain in the game the way they are right now, then NOED should stay too.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Ok first of all how would the tiers work?
And second of all how would you go about making sure this doesn't end up countering strategies besides gen rush?
That's a good question and I will admit I didn't think about this when making this thread but my suggestion is as follows:
Tier 1 - all survivors receive a notification when the fake generator is 50% repaired (also indicating what generator it is).
Tier 2 - all survivors receive a notification when the fake generator is 75% repaired (also indicating what generator it is).
Tier 3 - all survivors receive a notification when the fake generator is 100% repaired (also indicating what generator it is).
As for your other question, what other kind of strategies could this counter besides gen rushing?
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Ok first of all how would the tiers work?
And second of all how would you go about making sure this doesn't end up countering strategies besides gen rush?
That's a good question and I will admit that I didn't think about this when making this thread but basically I suggest the following:
Tier 1 - survivors receive a notification when the fake generator is 50% repaired.
Tier 2 - survivors receive a notification when the fake generator is 75% repaired.
Tier 3 - survivors receive a notification when the fake generator is 100% repaired.
What other kind of strategies could this counter?
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It's not unnecessary. I'd rather lose points than GIVE them points for overusing the ######### out of a crutch perk. You don't need to be overly good to defeat killers at chases. Just use dead hard, adrenaline, mettle of man and decisive-strike and have like a full team with similar perks and you'll see the struggle it is when you're about to hit that guy you've been chasing for so long due to these 2nd chance perks but you're faced with that survivor given YET another opportunity to escape the killer.
I wonder why there aren't similar perks for killers. Perks that grant the killer a second chance too, or higher chances of winning/balancing the match itself. Perks like "after a generator is done, all survivors suffer from the exposed status for X time" or "1/2 random generators are given the "fake" status, so when they are completed, the repair bar returns to zero and survivors cannot complete that gen, with the same amount of gens to be repaired remaining the same" or "after being in a chase for X time, you don't lose any bloodlust, regardless if you destroy a pallet", perks that are as overpowered as MoM.
MoM is a perfect example of what's wrong with this game. The killer is punished for doing his job and survivors are rewarded with chances after chances.
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This perk is even worse than DS because DS still had a counterplay and this perk doesn't and it severely punishes killers for doing their job.
I can't stand this perk and it's super annoying so I simply DC everytime I chase a survivor, hit him and find out he has MoM. I honestly can't stand survivors who are pure trash but still survive because they rely on 2nd chance perks.
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@Eninya said:
This map has been nerfed significantly since Emblems have come. The 'hanging tree' loop has been nerfed, and so have loops in relation to the barn (the most egregious problem of the past). I don't think it's unbalanced like it once was.
I still don't find that nerfing enough. There are still way too many loops. This map is still ridiculously unbalanced when compared to other actually balanced maps.
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Excellent and fair idea.
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Remove the perk entirely. This perk is no different than the old oversaturated and overly used Decisive Strike, practically speaking. I'd say it's even worse because it has no counterplay as already mentioned, as opposed to DS where you could at least try to dribble the survivor on his way to the hook. It's another second chance perk that punishes the killer for doing his job and makes a specific survivor waste even more of the killer's time. Waste his time with your ability to loop/juke him around, not with the help of crutch perks.
If you get downed, you get downed. It's how the game works and it should be kept simple like that. I'm in favor of removing all second chance perks, but I'd be happy with a huge nerf. But as for MoM, it needs to be removed, in my opinion. I also find it ridiculous that you have to counter a perk with another perk so a MoM similar perk for killers gets added. No, what's fun about the game is how you need to counter a perk with your skill, your gameplay. Otherwise, everyone's gonna use the same perk and the game becomes less dynamic and more repetitive. It happened with DS and you did a good job there. But you made exactly the same mistake by adding MoM.