daikaimon
daikaimon
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- daikaimon
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I apologize for the Japanese image, but here are the statistics. The left side shows Japan, and the right side shows the global statistics.
@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043435#Comment_4043435
I believe you but do you have a picture or link to these stats? the most recent I could find was JAN - MARCH before the ghoul
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043429#Comment_4043429
according to what stats? I don't think they have released ghoul kill rate stats unless you are referring to nightlight which isn't accurate. would love to see official ghoul stats divided between low and high mmr.https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4043430#Comment_4043430
I thought this community came to concusses they don't just want to devs to change things based on data / internal numbers. that's how we got killers like sadako nerfed.
Also if that is the case they should just make a statement. "based on internal data the ghoul does not need changes" but they know that wont play well and would cause outrage on levels with the streetwise bug comment imo.Statistics were published by BHVR in October of last year.
The statistics only cover the top five killers by kill rate, but he's not one of them, and the fifth place killer has a kill rate of 61%, so he's below that, within the 60% benchmark.
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If he is a "powerful killer that requires no skill," then it is questionable why he wasn't even in the top 5 for kill rate in the previous rankings.
The developers are surely looking at the data calmly.
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Why do people give a damn about the new accounts that are just whining that we see every so often on the weekends?lol
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3924080#Comment_3924080
I am sorry but where on earth do you have these statistics from? Especially considering he was just nerfed again three days ago, and there is still a broken bug of him that also affects his perception?
I am really not convinced BHVR has to nerf all those areas to make more survivor players happy.
cognitive bias
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@AlreadyTracer said:
I've literally never had a problem against him even before the omeganerfs. He's Legion with added mobility and difficult techs to get sometimes alright anti-loop. The only thing that doesn't work is holding W, which was a terrible playstyle to begin with.
He even says in the thread about the Legion that they are OP and should be destroyed like SM.
From this I can infer that he is either being sarcastic, trolling, or simply very incompetent. -
@Twiggsy said:
So a common survivor complaint is apparently the grab attack even those it's hitbox has been reduced by 95% is still apparently to free still so survivors will never be happy unless grab attacks are completely removed. Furthermore a major complaint by many is his Grab Vaults are just to fast and uncounterable even after the nerfs so it mostly likely a Scamper situation where it will be removed just like Chucky.
Another common survivor complaint is his cooldowns/attack cooldown when he lands right next to you is too short.
Basically Ghouls entire fate right now is being drip fed nerfs until he's no longer viable and rework him entirely and the only thing Kaneki will be screaming about is being at bottom of D-Tier
I don't know if this is sarcasm or if you mean it, but if you still have complaints about the current Kaneki, you should be ashamed....
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923642#Comment_3923642
Yeah that's what I thought. It's probably mainly just people who played a lot of Kaneki and have to get used to the nerfs and him being actually fairly balanced now. That or biased killer mains that play very little survivor.
But in my opinion it's a fantastic thing that Kaneki now loses 2 tokens on pallet breaks, it gives him more counterplay, which he needed.
I don't know why you don't check reddit yourself and only believe the information that is convenient for you.
As for the Kaneki nerf, it is one of the topics of this update, and it is difficult to name a representative one. (Obviously, there are some topics that are strongly critical of the nerf, but since they seem to be posted by killer mains, they would not be appropriate as representative examples.)
Above all, it is possible that I saw many of those opinions due to my cognitive bias, so it would be fairest to see for myself.
However, not only is there a lot of criticism of the nerf, but also a lot of negative feedback on the advocacy for the nerf, and a lot of positive feedback on the criticism for the nerf. At least, from my point of view. -
@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3923638#Comment_3923638
There are some reddit posts bemoaning that they can no longer break pallets and immediately catch up to survivors, but the support to buff ghoul again is not nearly as big as that post claims.
Perverting the text is the lowest form of argumentation. I posted my opinion that there was strong criticism on reddit for this nerf, but I never posted that there was a desire for it to be enhanced.
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In fact, the nerf to Kaneki in 8.7.0 has been criticized quite heavily outside of this forum. (Reddit is probably the most vocal in its criticism.)
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Perhaps BHVR is trying to adjust the ratio with survivors by decreasing the number of killer players. LOL
In fact, with the nerfing of Kaneki and many other adjustments in favor of Survivor, many Killer players around me have left the game.
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Well, nerfs that focus only on the opinions of survivors and disparage killers are usually unpleasant, and it is inevitable that negative opinions will rise one after another.
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@Cassiopeiae said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922275#Comment_3922275
Singu at leats takes skill, that can't be denied.
Actually, when it comes to bringing down survivors, Singularity doesn't require any more skill than Kaneki. That should be immediately obvious if you play both.
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The biggest culprit will be the BHVR that listens to the whining of survivors. They are catering to the selfishness of people who don't even understand the game they are playing properly and letting them get carried away. How long are we going to coddle these children who are not ready to grow up? This is an adult game, right?
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922204#Comment_3922204
The cooldown of canceling his power is not very strong, are you sure that works? I feel like that would only work on very small pallet loops and that's it.
And it doesn't change the fact that the counter play is gone once the pallet is down. The nerf he got was well deserved, and from my experience so far, might not be enough. I was still able to get some hits against survivors after using the vault at a normal pallet loop easily. They might have to increase the vaulting time ever so slightly as well, like to 1.7 seconds from 1.5 seconds.
I guess this is typical of whining survivors.
They are trying to add further nerfs to Kaneki. Perhaps he will repeat this until Kaneki becomes a killer without power.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922218#Comment_3922218
Yeah, I'm saying that isn't likely to happen.
You can usually tell when it will, too. Kaneki was insanely strong, anyone could've seen the nerfs coming.
At PTB, Kaneki seemed to be on both sides of the issue. It is hard to believe that we will know how well the killer performs on the first day of official sales. Everyone will understand the performance through actual gameplay.
This is why I do not want to buy FNAF chapters. If I did purchase one, it would probably be after a certain period of time.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922214#Comment_3922214
Most killers recently have been buffed after release, not nerfed. I feel like investing in a new killer is, statistically, much more likely to be rewarded than not.
The sadness of being nerfed one after the other where you loved the original, bought the killer, and enjoyed it will never be understood by statistics.
FNAF is another work of art that I love. I don't want to feel bad anymore.
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@Captain_Sugar said:
Really disappointed with this new patch. I find it rather discouraging to learn new killers only to have them nerfed and nerfed and nerfed... It would be a wise decision not to touch an upcoming characters for the first two months until BHVR settles in with the nerfs.
The BHVR does not care about the killer play experience. All they see is the whining of the survivors.
FNAF chapters will not even be worth buying. Even if you like a new killer, it is a pain to play with the fear that it might be nerfed again. Playing as a survivor is not a bad idea, but honestly, I have nothing but distrust for BHVR now.
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@Philscooper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3922119#Comment_3922119
I love killer mains never playing against the killers they defend. (The whole distortion is good post rework all oevr again)
Because everyone else who did, thinks he is bullshit and shouldnt have this many mechanics or powers in one. (There isnt a counter besides playing a map offering for the game/lerys)
When legion and plague can only do one thing,
Wraith has to work for the injury and struggle for the down.
but kaneki can injure for free and still have powers to down survivors for some reason.
Makes no sense. Unless they want him to be busted, which its clear they dont want, otherwise he wouldnt be getting nerfs.
If Kaneki had been as ridiculously capable and hard to deal with a killer as you say, I would have agreed with these nerfs.
But he is not that kind of being. He is a killer that can be handled well enough if you know which palette to use, know when to knock down the palette, and move positions to watch for the cooldown of his abilities. In fact, I and my teammates have fought Kaneki and won many times.
The nerfs that are being made against Kaneki now seem to be nothing more than a way to pamper and pamper the vicious Survivor Main. The opacity of the data and the fact that it is repeated nerfs in a short period of time are also questionable.
BHVR has done the same thing over and over every time a toxic survivor whines. Sometimes, like SM, they were destroyed outright. They have never learned their lesson and are about to do it again.
And I am angry and disappointed. If this continues, the same thing will be repeated in the FNAF chapters.
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@Jtflorencio said:
Buff: Brutal Streght —> 30%
Buff: Fire Up —> start with 1 tokenhttps://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3GNRTVJMBX21/image.png
Nerf: Blight & Wesker —> Cooldown after break pallet
( Why Kaneki yes but the others no? )I certainly don't see why Kaneki is not allowed and Blight is, it is obvious that Blight is more powerful and has similar capabilities. There is no consistency in this.
I also don't understand why so many nerfs in such a short period of time, about a month. It seems to me that BHVR is nerfing killers every time a survivor cries hate.
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Now Kaneki will again be following the SM path. The vicious survivors will still be screaming hate when he gets to D-tier.
How many more times will BHVR repeat the same mistakes?
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@Yoshirama said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921955#Comment_3921955
No, survivors are really burned, especially since Kaneki arrives. They need to fix those issues and then the go next prevention, because at that point they really will not have any excuse to not play.
For the majority of survivors, toxic survivors who throw tantrums and abandon the game are far more annoying than a few powerful killers.
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I am so glad you understood my poor writing. What you say makes a lot of sense indeed.
This makes me lose hope in the killer that will be added in the future. Because if any killer is added that is even a little bit smart to deal with, a part of the community will cry for a thorough nerf and BHVR will actually give in to their whining.
How much longer is BHVR going to coddle these children who can't grow up?
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I understand that, of course. I myself have suffered from SM.
However, I do question the sheer number of nerfs that have been done to her and the residual hate some people have for her after she was hurt.
First, BHVR should have been more careful with the nerfs. It overreacted to the whining of some survivors and thoroughly nerfed her. It was like spoiling a spoiled child. As a result, we are still devoting resources to reworking her to this day.
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One thing I can say is that it is best not to get too emotional when making these kinds of suggestions.
You don't seem calm now....
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I have noticed that when I see accounts here complaining about Kaneki, it is usually the same person. lol
Now, are you guys still pointing your hate at this much nerfed killer?
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@darkshadows8326 said:
I'm a Ghoul main, I love playing as Ghoul because it is an easy step into fast pace mobility, unlike the other 3 options. Therefore I propose that the 2 meter grab range only apply to Survivors and not map objects, this is not the nerf I just wanted this opinion to be known. The nerf should affect the recovery of power cancel. Firstly, the power should not be allowed to be canceled mid Kagune Leap to prevent being too oppressive anymore or if they do so it should have a larger increase in recovery time. The second part would only allow the player to cancel after a Kagune Leap slide has finished, in response to the first effect of the first part. The final suggestion to balance that out would be to reduce the recovery time by a small amount on a power cancel after the slide or when all tokens are used up.
Let us be real BHVR, the problem with Ghoul auto locking had nothing to do with the range of object grabbing for map traversal and more about players being able to catch up to survivors and easily hit them with a timed power cancel. I implore you, DO NOT adjust the speed of the Ghoul but instead take this into account instead on your next iteration of Ghoul changes. Don't make Ghoul into a Chucky. That would be the 3rd Killer of mine you would kill and would tell everyone you thoroughly despise the Killer role and prefer the Survivor role to be more prominent.
Frankly, I don't want BHVR to adjust the Ghoul anymore.
The way SM's adjustments have gone astray and the way Chucky has been treated, they have a tendency to take the whining and hate of some toxic survivors seriously.
For example, your proposed nerf content will also result in a less attractive Ghoul if not handled well.
What can we expect from the current BHVR?
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Why is BHVR putting so much effort into a survivor who refuses to understand the killer and just whines and screams?
I would say it is a waste of time.
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People who just scream hate have become an end in themselves and should be ignored now.
They will eventually scream hate no matter what adjustments are made.
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Interesting idea, but seems a little too powerful.
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To compete with Kaneki, a minimum level of knowledge and skill is essential. (e.g. knowledge of the map, looping skills, etc.)
Players who can't do that can only complain and scream here.
Sad to say, but this is inevitable.
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Frankly, I can't stand to see people just screaming for the nerf of these killers without any desire to improve their own skills....
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916754#Comment_3916754
Thats what Ive heard yes. It also feels necessary imo.
Thank you.
Could you please tell me in which medium you made the statement so that I can check the content once?
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More work to do, but a killer that responds to our hard work.
Excellent!
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916906#Comment_3916906
It's believe from the perspective that Kaneki is and was too strong, and is far simpler than Nurse or Blight to get value from.
That of course said, you have no intent on believing me, so I don't see us getting anywhere other than talking in circles. Have a nice rest of your day.
It's becoming more and more unreliable......
What matters in high MMR is not how easy it is to become proficient, but how high the limit of ability is.
Kaneki is certainly powerful, but are you trying to claim that it is more than a proficient nurse or Blight, which are often found in high MMR?
Many will understand that is impossible.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916888#Comment_3916888
I didn't, you just chose not to believe me. The highest winstreak I've seen is well into the quadruple digits. Is 25 mathematically impossible under the game's systems somehow?
And for someone that opened our conversation with accusations of disparaging the other side, you do seem to be having fun attempting to make me mad at you. Are you, by the way? Having fun, I mean.
You never did answer my question. How would you like me to assess Kaneki's overall strength without involving the capability of survivors?
Oh, it's a vice of mine to want to tease a little when I see someone who is excited, never mind.
Back on topic, I guess I didn't exactly choose not to believe, just that there wasn't a claim out there worth believing.
It's hard to believe that a player with an irrational playstyle, who is not good at killers, would repeatedly hit 3K and 4K in a row after the MMR was raised, and so on, the longer you play the more you can't believe it.
As to your last question, I condemned your statement because you have to take into account the ability of the survivors.
As I said before, I don't believe that a player with an irrational playstyle and a poor killer can make many kills in a top MMR.
It is no different with Nurse or Blight, the top killers in the game.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916871#Comment_3916871
We live in a subjective world - without BHVR providing official stats and deep-diving into the reasons why, we will never have objectivity.
You request proof that is impossible to provide, as any you ask for are easily just fodder for moved goalposts.
As I've said. You're free to think I'm lying.
I don't think “moving the goalposts” is such a convenient term. LOL
You simply told a lie that could easily be spotted if you had a good understanding of the game system.
Well, please relax your shoulders.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916856#Comment_3916856
masterfully done, you both created a setup to move the goalposts with your screenshot request AND you managed to make an ad hominem attack by presuming that me bringing up a 100% winrate at all is a means to disparage survivors.
I do not have screenshots of all 25 matches that make up the streak. Nor would that be sufficient, as I also claim to not employ strategies a winscreen does not detail. You would've needed a recording of every match in the streak. You are free to doubt me, but I assure you I have no reason to lie, seeing as I would quite like to main Kaneki for the forseeable future.
To address your other major point - I am arguing a killer is strong. How would you like me to do this without arguing survivors cannot beat him? I will happily follow that route with you.
Do you yourself realize that there is no objectivity whatsoever in your statement?
I agree with you that Kaneki is powerful.
But just powerful is not enough to allow a player with an improved MMR, after 25 wins in a row, and who is not a good killer, to have a string of 3k or 4k against a top survivor.
Even a skilled Nurse or Blight will have a much harder time of it.
That's why I want some kind of proof to trust you.
If Kaneki is such a powerful killer, I will use it. LOL.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916138#Comment_3916138
Pre-nerf, I won 25 matches in a row, single slowdown, without camping, tunneling, 3 genning or slugging.
Post-nerf, the worst I've done is the odd 1k in a sea of 3ks and 4ks, still playing under a playstyle many would find unnecessarily restrictive.
I'm not that good at killer. Which means Kaneki is the problem. His missed m2 recovery time needs nerfing, and the enraged vault speed bonus needs removing entirely.
If you want to give credence to that statement, you should attach some kind of screenshot.
Besides, it seems to me that you are making too much fun of other survivors to claim to have such a winning streak, even before the nerf.
At least, I don't remember such a winning streak record in my actual experience and in many streamer, and the survivors have now adapted to him.
I don't really agree with your claim that you are disparaging even survivors in order to get your point across.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3916719#Comment_3916719
"This first round blows, because it makes him more bullyable to good survivors"
Firstly, please show me how a GOOD Ghoul (someone that actually puts effort into playing that character) is getting bullied. I REALLY want to see that.
Secondly, every nerf to a killer makes facing it an easier and less frustrating experience for the survivor. That is the entire purpose of a nerf. Doesnt matter if its on survivor or killer end.
Hitting through walls are not a bug and still happen. Why? Its because dbd´s funny ping issues and the core design of this killer dont work well together. Iff you have any additional information, please feel free to share.
The killer received 6 nerfs AT ONCE and is still extremely strong and in line for additional nerfs. Even the most biased people have to acknowledge that the killer on release was too strong at this point.
Did the developer say that further nerfs are planned?
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I thought everyone was joking, but I wonder if they are serious.
If you still can't forgive a killer that has been nerfed so much, in multiple items, I feel that is largely your own fault. -
@Dadeordye said:
What we got today is a step towards the right direction, but a very small one.
The two broken things about Kaneki are:
1-The speed of his vault while enraged = it's too damn fast. You can't go around a small rock again before Kaneki catches up tp the survivor. This needs to either be reduced or reduce the duration of Enraged Mode (because it still keep activated through the entire match basically).
2-Being able to cancel the power while still doing a leap = let's just say that if Kaneki can keep this then you have to give Wesker and Blight this option too.Do Wesker and Bright have an ability cooldown when the pallet is destroyed?
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@NebulaArcana said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3913883#Comment_3913883
Could I ask who "we" refers to? Also, I personally believe that if Ghoul had the range back, that would be a lot more fun than if his pallet vault was nerfed. To me, the appeal of Ghoul is his mobility, not so much his ability to jump over pallets.
It would be nice if the range could be restored, but that would not be in exchange for leap speed.
Indeed, Kaneki's appeal lies in his mobility. But the killer needs to be decisive to bring the survivor down.
In the current situation, where the cooldown of the ability begins after the board is destroyed, he would lose much of his resistance to the board if he reduced his leaping speed.
At least I don't want that.
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If Kaneki were to be nerfed any further, he would become an insignificant, map-hopping bug to survivors.
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If Kaneki is weakened any further, he will join this vapid stream.
Frankly, I don't even want to see that happen.
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We do not believe he needs any further nerfing.
Killer players want ghouls that are fun to use, not grasshoppers that just fly around the map.
Any speed related adjustments will greatly reduce his appeal. -
I understand that the tunnel is one of the key strategies for the killer. I am aware that, as this game is a competitive one, it is inevitable that someone will be somewhat uncomfortable.
However, with the FNAF collaboration coming up and the number of new players increasing, it still needs to be adjusted.
Remember when we were still new to the game and we were tunneled?
That boredom should be reduced, in my opinion.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911208#Comment_3911208
Buddy…
What claim did I make, exactly?
Because I think you're getting some wires crossed and you think I wrote something much different from what I actually wrote.
If your words were true, you would have made a defense prior to this comment that would have cleared up the misunderstanding. You would have made known the intent of your argument.
Anyone can understand that there is nothing more ridiculous than to argue with a misunderstanding.
But in fact, what you have done is merely self-preservation and excuses.
Again, please double check your comments.
Any more lame excuses will not only annoy me but also others here.
I do not want that.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911190#Comment_3911190
First off, you completely miss the mark on your comment, since I'm talking about specifically what Daniel said.
Secondly…
Paranoia-like victimhood is unseemly and even diminishes the validity of your arguments.
It can't. The validity of an argument is irrespective of the person who makes it. I know you cloak yourself in fanciful language to project an aura of intelligence, but this remark kinda shows you're punching above your weight class.
I agree with you above all that it is the content of the claim that matters to the validity of the argument. I am not looking at who you have disagreed with, but at your opinion itself.
That is why I can say that your argument has no validity.
How much validity is there in a claim that is not supported by data and is driven by your own feelings?
You might want to review your own post.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3911117#Comment_3911117
That's your balance standard?
'It's not OP unless it has 100% winrate'?
Most of my remarks about 'forum killers' are kind of hyperbole, but you have gone above and beyond, buddy!
The kill rate for ghouls is 63%, a result not much different from that of nightmares. (Of course, his pick rate is usefully high, and this is not a story that can generally be judged by kill rate alone.)
I don't see anyone, at least in this comment section, saying that weakening is completely unnecessary. What I fear is that excessive weakening will create a boring and stale existence.
The way you get overly excited, play on poor sarcasm, and shout your arguments too loudly is not very smart.
Paranoia-like victimhood is unseemly and even diminishes the validity of your arguments.
I suggest you keep a cool head.