unluckycombo
unluckycombo
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1659797#Comment_1659797
Coding, funny. I don't see their cosmetic store having any issues.
You really do though. We've had janky physics and clipping issues on new skins.
But can we not forget that the art team is not the same as the balancing team? Comparing the in-game store and new skins getting released to things like balancing issues or bugs is like going up to an painter, demanding they fix your computer, instead of going to the tech support guy next door.
Plus, it's impossible to make everyone happy. They’re pretty much trying to balance three different games at once, while still having it all be under the moniker 'Dead by Daylight.'
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Honestly you just have to practice and figure out where you can run certain killers, and remembering that every killer player is different, and you have to figure out how they play and adjust to that. Also, learning how to run safe and unsafe pallets properly, and which structures are better to run against what killer will help immensly. Along with this, knowing how to effectively string together loops is key. Remember, you don't want to never go down- that's usually unrealistic unless the killer is a potato. What you do want to do though is waste as much of the killer's time as possible while also trying to maintain as many resources as possible. (Not to say you should greed every pallet, as it's case by case on what to greed, but just things like not throwing down shack immediately, or knowing when you're going to get hit through a stun and knowing not to waste that resource.)
Imho the best way to learn is practice. Throw on Object of Obsession with your choice of: DS, Unbreakable, Windows of Opportunity, Bond and an exhaustion perk (I think Lithe is the best for it, but run what you like.) Get ready to get tunneled, and know you will get rekt- but you'll learn a lot from doing it about how killers move, and how to play against them effectively.
I should note as well- Stray away from perks like Spine Chill and Resilience when learning to loop. It can really screw with how you perceive window vault speeds if you learn how to loop with those perks.
Additionally, you could just... play the killers yourself. But I can get why you wouldn't- tbh I can't play some of them because they make me woozy.
Good luck.
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@burt0r said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1658350#Comment_1658350
Yeah like I said the ranks need to be made wider like from 50 to 1 to fit all individual skill levels.
Again lol has iron, bronze, silver, gold, platinum, diamond, master, grandmaster and challenger and atleast up to diamond they are divided into 4 divisions. So minimum 24 ranks with promotion games between levels and only yearly reset by I think two categories. (And of course the working MMR.)
Also the pip system let's people rank way to fast. A few good games and you are suddenly 5 ranks higher (atleast until purple). In league you have to collect 100 lp per division to reach promo games. 15-30 lp on win and something in the same range on loss depending on your performance but don't ask me how they calculate any of that.
The emblem system and most of the ranking system does not really work in dbd and was set for fast success in the beginning to bind player.
I can go 0k but 32k bp in green ranks and still sometimes double pip while I read that other people go 4k and depip in high ranks (without a Mori according to them). This whole system is convoluted and unintuitive.
Yeah, the system is dummy easy to game these days. One of the players I play with regularly has less then 300 hours in the game and is now sitting at Rank 4.
I'd like for it to be able to grab the median of ranks- I don't think the MMR system is necessarily impossible to implement, but I do think there's way too many variables that I question it's accuracy. Plus, this is BHVR, so who knows how it'll be when they fully reintegrate MMR.
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Tbh I think Ruin+Undying isn't as strong as people make it out to be. Undying can still be broken instantly, and both perks still require the killer to pressure people off gens.
I think the issue is that it feels pretty oppresive in Solo Queue sometimes depending on the map. Totem spawns have gotten increasingly better on newer maps and reworked maps, so it's harder to find totems- and at the same time, it can feel frustrating when it feels like nothing is getting done as a Survivor because your teammates aren't doing their part in breaking bones, and it doesn't feel nice to be punished for someone else's mistake. (Especially because you can't communicate that to the other person- so you know they're probably going to keep doing it.)
On the flip side though, it's not oppresive enough against a coordinated SWF. Have someone throw on Detective's Hunch and be the designated bone hunter and boom, there go half your perks and you probably didn't get much value out of them because it's hard to pressure coordinated survivors off gens.
With that being said, I do kinda wish Undying was tuned down because it does make Thrill of the Hunt obsolete. Maybe giving Undying the totem counter, and Thrill the Aura reading effects would be a good change for the two.
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Playing As: Spirit, Pig, Myers
Playing Against: Pig, Myers, Demo.
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Rift is fine for veteran players who want new challenges to work for.
However, when you're still in that lower to middle bracket of players, the Rift can be way too grindy added into the current grind of Bloodwebs.
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I don't think wiggles should be buffed or hooks should be nerfed, but I would like to see Flip-Flop buffed. (Seriously, the fact that it only brings 40% to your wiggle bar from a max recover without UB is kinda lame- really, there's no reason it shouldn't be 50%. It's already such a niche perk imho.)
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@bm33 said:
I enjoy reworked doctor way more than original doctor. My only issue with the doctor, which I have same with Freddy, is you'll get ones that manage to drag out the game in an unfun way. Gens are taking forever to finish (if they get finished) and you're just nonstop healing - usually because they'll slug more than hook, especially Doctor with people in tier3 madness. Just gets to a point where your bored with match not progressing so you either get the killer to hook you/bleed out or DC to move onto the next match. A long match is only fun if you feel like there's a chance of escape, if you're not making any progress it just feels like a waste of time after awhile.
^This^
I get gens feel like they go way too fast sometimes as killer, but man, playing a round against something like that is so insanely boring.
I know it can be easily countered by splitting gens as long as the Killer doesn't secure a 3 gen, but when you're playing with randos that's not the easiest task in the world, or when you're playing your buddies who are still learning how to hit normal skillchecks...
Otherwise, I like playing against Doctor.
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I mean, this change has been talked about before, and it's too easily abused. You get unhooked and tapped a totem because you didn't realize the stealth killer would come straight back to hook? I don't think you should lose your DS. Running Second Wind or Adrenaline? I don't think you should lose your DS for gaining a health state from that. (Tbh I don't even really agree with Adrenaline giving you a health state with the speed boost but w/e) Hop into a locker for a few seconds to try to get some distanve with a Head On stun because you aren't running an exhaustion perk? You shouldn't lose DS.
With that being said, I could agree with losing DS from the following-
Commiting to an action, such as tapping a gen (which, let's be real, stopping gen progression from a kick shouldn't be stopped by a tap imho-) or even working on a gen/totem/heal for at least 3 seconds (with the perk turning off if you pop that gen in that time period, heal another survivor, or get healed by another survivor.)
And, DS shouldn't work if you get pulled from lockers.
I think if those changes were made it could keep it's current timer. We've seen how bad chase-based timers work with Legion. At the very least if there's a timer change, it should work more like the Deep Wounds Timer.
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- Freddy, purely because his lunge feels so wrong, and I still haven't recovered from the age of Forever Freddy.
- Oni. I'm just not a fan on how he slides off of everything, and man I've gone against so many mean Onis.
- Deathslinger. Again, just bad experiences with the players. I've had a lot of Slingers who will be super toxic in end game chat. Not sure who hurt them.
Trapper is high up there for me too. Not because he's strong, or the people who play him are rude, but because I have bad trap RNG. I'm the teammate who will sit in a bear trap for ten years.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1656455#Comment_1656455
- stop running your second chance perks and get something that actually tells you if the killer's approaching, be it spinechill, ooo or anything like that. run kindred
- pay attention to your surroundings.
- stealth. seriously, show us your sneaking skills.
- know your gens. genspeed/strategical gen popping IS counterplay against low pressure/mobility killers.
to argue 'but the game rewards chases' is faulty logic: by now there are perks that work against the current 'rewards' (e.g. PWYF) so the statement is outdated
I mean, isn't there a major argument against stealth right now though because people find it boring to play against? I know people who bring Moris against Blendettes because of it, and I've seen other Survivors get facecamped for stealthing against killers like Nurse, even though they've been a good teammate and doing gens/saves...
Personally I don't mind the lack of mid-chase counterplay against Deathslinger, though it does make chases against him pretty boring compared to someone like Ghostface at fair loops.
I just dislike him because it feels like every Slinger I go against likes to be toxic in post game chat lol, so I just have bad experiences with him.
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I'll hoard items on any character with a P3. (So far just Ash, Felix, Steve, Jake, Pig, and Myers.)
But! I have the even number rule for items and offerings. They have to always be at even numbers, that way I actually sometimes use what I have- because otherwise I'll sit on them forever.
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Trust me, it's helpful. As someone who is notorious at getting hit through windows during fast vaults that looked fine on my side, vault speed build can be a god send. I'll go from my windows being inconsistent due to what I feel is latency on the killer's end (I say this because I have a stable connection that sits right between 60-65 ms- not sure about killer's connection when I'm in game though. Might also just be the weird hit detection system though.) to my windows being extremely consistent.
To be fair though, usually Spine Chill is enough to give me consistent windows, so I don't run the two together often. (After like 10 games of no chest build I gotta go back tbh.)
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I'd love to see a Slenderman/SCP Chapter- that was the stuff that got me into horror, just like Amnesia: The Dark Descent back in the day.
A really off one though? A Puppet Combo chapter. They’re a dev that makes PS1/PS2 style horror games in the modern day that are based on older slashers and odd horror films. I love their work and I would absolutely love to see Puppet Combo get one of their game's killers in the game.
(People should totally check them out- they're honestly great and make amazing games.)
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I'll be honest, when I heard PH was getting some work done that would include getting his PoD looked at, I was super excited. I was really hoping they'd change his turning for PoD along with the cooldown to compensate for his nerfs so that his PoD felt a lot smoother, and players could feel a bit more confident going for skill shots with more control.
I hope he gets a bit more before they push him to live. I really want him to still be decent.
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It's very much so a valid strategy, with counterplay in the form of perks. Just like slugging. A poorly timed slug or tunneling the wrong person can lose someone the game, just like how tunneling the weak link out of a game can when the game.
Honestly the only thing that frustrates me about tunneling is the lack of BP gain for Survivor lol. I just know how much it sucks to sit in queues for 5 minutes to only get 3k BP. Getting chased all game doesn't net you as much BP either, which honestly sucks.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651500#Comment_1651500
You should not be stopping regression when being chased or more over, being tunneled anyways. Its your choice to touch a gen to regress it.
Well, survivors being able to just magically poke a generator to stop it from regressing has always bothered me in the first place, but that's a whole different issue imo.
If you get hooked next to a hex, should the killer not be able to stop you from doing the hex? I mean, you are a damned fool if you, who got unhooked next to a hex, which by the way, gives a killer a notification and lets him know that two survivors are right next to his hex (unless you kobe'd I guess), would not come back to defend said hex. To think you have the right to just be able to cleanse a hex for free simply because you were recently hooked would be very entitled in my opinion. Move your ass away from the hook and the hex. Maybe let the person who saved you do the hex instead if the team is that desperate to get it.
If a stealth killer is following you around for the whole 60 seconds to avoid the perk, well, I would be super happy if a killer did that to me to be honest. 60 seconds of them literally applying zero pressure to the map and 60 seconds for me to find a good set up to loop them for minutes more. And if they avoid the first 60 seconds and I get unhooked again, they have to wait an additional 60 seconds more the second time and repeat the same song and dance again. Sounds like a losing strategy to me. I can only imagine incredibly bad killers thinking this is a good idea. And then they will quickly learn why it's a bad idea and they won't keep doing it for very long.
I don't agree with @SloppyKnockout with DS being disabled for being healed, or even healing another person. I think being able to perform defensive actions like healing with a perk that's for defense is fine and god forbid survivors don't need more reasons to not heal and do more than gens. However, unhooking someone is a whole other story. If you're unhooking someone, then you paint a target on your back. That's why the killer receives a notification of the location when an unhook happens. Same for doing a generator -- they're marked for the killer for a reason. It's the killer's objective to defend them.
I don't think DS should be disabled when you go into a locker -- but it should if you get grabbed from a locker. This makes it so the survivor can still stealth from the killers (maybe they want to hide from BBQ or any other aura reading or try to juke the killer) and still be able to leave just fine -- but they wouldn't be able to use lockers for 60 seconds of literal invulnerability, either.
But I also think DS should be disabled when all 5 gens get powered, or at the very very minimum, when EGC is started. There's literally nothing the killer can do but defend hooks at that point, and I think any quams of "tunneling" should be off the table by then. If you've not had to use DS for the entire previous 95% of the game, I think it's safe the say the killer isn't tunneling, and it's dumb the perk lets you just be able to be downed and immediately crawl out and there is absolutely nothing the killer can do about it. Survivors should never have a situation where they are more powerful than the killer or are literally invulnerable against the killer.
That last sentence is the entire reason I hate the current implementation of DS. The perk makes the survivor literally invulnerable against the killer for doing their job in so many situations and it only gets even more powerful during the end game which only serves to punish killers more who never actually tunneled in the first place and actually encourages them to tunnel early, so it won't be a problem later, which just goes to show how faulty its current design is.
Yeah, honestly Survivors shouldn't just be able to barely tap a gen and stop it from regressing- but since that's how it is, I added it in my example since you're not commiting to an action.
I think you misunderstood me on Hex totems and stealth killers though- or totems in general, I should have been more clear. I never stated that you should freely be able to cleanse the bones, Hex or not if you get hooked near them and come off a hook. In my exact words, I said 'attempted to cleanse bones'. Not cleanse them. 'Attempt to cleanse them.' Meaning, if a Survivor taps a bone, then they shouldn't lose their DS. (Unless, once again, it's like ToxicMyer's style of DS, because that sounds dope tbh.) For that specific example, I used a stealth killer since you won't always know they'll tunnel due to their powers and small terror radius- meaning it can be harder to tell that they're coming back to hook if you're solo.
I'd never assume any stealth killer to follow anyone around for 60 seconds in stealth? I'm going to assume this has to do with either my point above, which I hope I better explained, or the break chase part- which you don't need to be a stealth killer to do, and I would expect that if they made DS pause in chase it would have a much shorter timer then it does now. (Like, 10 to 20 seconds kinda short.)
I also agree lockers shouldn't be used for 60 seconds of invulnerability and you shouldn't be punished for grabbing them! I just wanted to mention Head On for that since I think a lot of people forget about it when talking about whether DS should be available if you hop into a locker- and I'd honestly just hate to see Head On get nerfed. The perk is already hard to pull of compared to other exhaustion perks lol.
I also agree with the EGC/Final Gen powered argument. At that point, you really can't do much more then camping or tunneling if you want to secure your kills- and I don't think killers should be punished for that. Especially since, at that point, Survivors should have had plenty of time to at least get a decent amount of BP. Honestly survivors get way too altruistic in the end game- not sure why though. Maybe I'm just too soft because I'll sacrafice myself in end game sometimes to ensure the killer can get a kill confirm if he was really struggling that match, and I've been curbstomped with no kills too many times as Nurse, but that's just me.
And yeah, I agree. DS is currently used way too offensively right now, and it's only counterplay is weak against sweatsquads with UB- since they can then save their UB until they really wanna turn the tides of the game. Honestly I kinda wish SWF would get nerfed a bit- something like the top four or five perks be banned for running more then two per group if you're a full premade, that way it isn't four people with fully decked out builds and comms versus one guy who's just trying to do his dailies on Wraith. (Which, I would hope will get better if they can fix their MMR system.)
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@SadLegion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651500#Comment_1651500
I disagree that you should be punished for healing or locker jumps. But your DS definitely should deactivate when you touch a gen or Hex totem. If you decided to stop regression or break a totem then take the consequences for it. Not a free pass
I mean, I didn't say break a totem, I said tap a totem... Hell, if anything, just go off of what another poster said in a different thread and just have DS go away after like 3 seconds of doing one of those actions- or even 2 seconds. (Or like ToxicMyers said and just have it work like Deep Wounds.)
@ToxicMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651500#Comment_1651500
Literally all your first points about if I do this with ds should I be punished I say yeah you should, you know ds in this situation wouldn't go well with those builds, or you just make a dumb play which gets you killed, that's like running self care and no mither than complaining with you can't heal. Honestly the timer should be like the deep wound timer, if you are running it stops but when you stop running it goes away in 30 seconds. And no, not just swf abuse ds, I have abused it, I have seen teammates who I don't know abuse it. Hell I even see people I played against abuse it. It's not a matter of who abuses it, it's a matter on why it can be abused and how to fix it.
DS is kinda great in any build though. If I run Second Wind, I usually do it alone, not with any other healing perk- and while I don't personally use insta-heals, if you can last that long in a chase to get it off then imho you should be able to use it. Same with Head On- it's already not a great exhaustion perk. I'd just hate for it to be made weaker because now you can't use it in even more chases then before.
Honestly I'd be totally okay with DS working like Deep Wounds- Hell, I'd love it. I really don't mind DS not having the invulnerability it does now, I just don't want the perk to be made entirely useless, or to take the utility out of some of the other perks in the roster either- because man, a lot of perks are hard to use effectively or yet value out of already, both for Killer and Survivor.
Maybe it's just me then. I've personally never gone out of my way to abuse DS, and I've not seen people abuse it outside of SWF groups on either side. (Granted, some solo survivors try, but it usually doesn't matter. As I said though, might just be me- I've seen a lot of other, better red rank killers get decimated by DS, but they usually don't play like solos either. Once again though, who knows.)
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@SloppyKnockout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651447#Comment_1651447
I've got over 4k hours in DBD. More than half of it survivor. Playing killer doesn't stop me from knowing which way the wind blows. Excellent job making a bold assumption, and falling flat on your face.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1651443#Comment_1651443
Making it so it disables when the survivors touches a gen, gets fully healed, heals someone else, touches a totem, or another survivor is hooked can be abused? How so? This is 90% controlled by the survivor with DS. If any of these things happen, it's literally impossible that they are being tunneled.
So, you're saying that because I decided to tap a gen because I had distance on a killer while mid-chase (tapped it, mind you, not sit and repair it) I should get punished for stopping a gen from regressing? If I'm running a perk such as Secondwind, or I decide to pop an insta-heal during chase in order to preserve myself, I should get punished for getting back a health state? What about For The People on a killer that's proxy camping and doesn't see the now broken Survivor? I know there's another argument against locker plays for DS as well, but what about Head-On/Quick and Quiet locker plays? Should I not be allowed to use my exhaustion perk to attempt to gain distance on the killer, like every other exhaustion perk does? If I Q&Q into a locker because I broke LOS with them, should I get punished for trying to get value out of my exhaustion perk which requires a locker to use?
What if you get hooked next to a Hex totem and it's a Stealth Killer who was proxy camping (Like Wraith)? You wouldn't hear them come back to hook, and you might have been able to get off a We'll Make it Heal or have at least attempted to cleanse the bones- if you're the first hook and didn't realize the killer would tunnel, should you get punished for 'Doing Bones'?
My point is that DS might be used aggressively, but it's a sensitive perk. If you base it off of chase timers, then the perk is useless, because it's too easy to break chase (Old Legion showed that off- and it's honestly kinda funny that this is true considering how many times you can start a chase on a Survivor and you won't even know where they are.) making it too easy for the killer to abuse. Give it a shorter cooldown and you might get punished for being tunneled anyway because you know how to run a loop. Have it based off of some of the things you want, and it can still be too punishing.
DS's problem is that it's too good to stop tunneling when going against a coordinated SWF, which are practically playing a different game then solos or casual SWFs. Nerf the perk too much for SWF level, and you might kill it for the majority of the Survivor base (Solos), and god knows they don't need any nerfs.
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@CheeseAnton said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1648953#Comment_1648953
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1648977#Comment_1648977
Oh god, what school do I go to? I thought 89%-80% was normal as basically everyone in my school has that, and multiple choice tests are extremely common for me even in high school. Sure, math doesn't go on multiple choices but English, Science, and History very rarely has a written question.
Maybe I shouldn't have been the one to do the school tier list.
I mean, I had a lot of multiple choice questions in high school and such as well (and this could have just been my school that did this, because I went to one of those semi-private schools which was considered to be a lot harder then all the other schools in my area) but most of my stuff, especially in AP/Advanced classes, came from written assignments and projects. Multiple choice was common, but usually also only in normal classes. (That's also not to mentjon our duel enrollment program we had, or our required Career and Technical Education, and our business classes.)
I think it's hard to make a tier list like this because everyone has really different experiences in school depending on where they are and the school they went to. Mine was very college-focused, so students with perfect GPAs where rare (which, at least where I am, GPA matters more then just your grades.)
Great attempt though! My favourite is definitely Demo, purely because it would mean that a creature that can't speak a comprehensible language and most of the fandom memes around to be like a pet dog is still smarter then Steve Harrington and Jake Park. Which is honestly pretty valid.
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Love this! Honestly wish more people, no matter what they queued for, kept stuff like this in mind when they played. We should all be able to chill and have fun.
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@Acromio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1648311#Comment_1648311
But the thing is, DbD is a competitive game, whether or not the devs want to admit it. The moment you pit a player against other players, it's inevitably gonna get competitive, it's just the nature of it.
That's kinda the thing though, I personally don't think the Devs know what they want when it comes to the game being competitive or not. (I should note as well that when I mean 'Competitive', I mean it in the sense of a rank system, having consistent tournaments, and an actual Competitive Mode versus what we have now. Anything can be competitive, so I think it's important to clarify that.)
I think until the Devs really decide whether they want to fully commit to making this game competitive ready (Meaning balance around SWF, Buff Killers and Solo Survivors, create a true competitive mode with a decent MMR system and matchmaker, with better defined rules as to what a win or loss is) or casual, we're going to keep getting this weird 'Two Step Forwards, One Step Back' thing we currently see. I think it's just a case of the Dev team being split as to what to do tbh- and I don't think it was built in a way that makes it easy for it to be competitive either, especially when you compare it to any other competitive game. (I mean, the last decent game we got like this was Friday the 13th, and god knows that game was about as Competitive as five day old spaghetti.)
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@Acromio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1648162#Comment_1648162
I'm tired of having to type the same stuff over and over again. You balance for the top and it's balanced for everyone. That's how it works.
For top tier players PH is a laughing stock with very little chase utility, no map presence, and piss-poor tracking. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
I'm not going to say I agree with the other guy, but I'm gonna throw in my two cents.
Yes, you do balance from the top and let it trickle down. However, the issue is that the 'Top' for this game is unreliable. The Devs stated themselves that your Rank doesn't indicate skill, and you can't balance based purely off Tournaments when every Tournament has different rulesets, bans, and win conditions. Heck, even in Hexy's tournament, the rules changed halfway through for killer add-on bans.
My point is, they can only balance from the top down so much when there is no real 'top'. They best we have are Fog Whisperers. They need to establish a better matchmaking system before we can really expect great balance changes imho- that way they can also get numbers to back it up.
There's also the issue that the difference between solo queue and SWF kinda makes the game hard to balance from top down, since Solo players don't have the same resources as a SWF. Unless they give Solo survivors an in-game communication system like other competitive games, balancing around SWF might also just ruin the Solo experience.
Imho the game shouldn't be taken as a serious competitive game by anyone. I think the fact that there's even a rank system is a mistake. But that's just me.
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I'm gonna throw my build here because I love using it and no one runs it.
Plunderer's Instinct, Ace in the Hole, Flip-Flop, (I usually run Second Wind here, but for this one I'll say Balanced Landing instead.)
I love the versatility of chest build and how much you can let it change your playstyle, and with how prevalent slugging is, getting Flip-Flop value is so nice. (It's even better if you play with someone who runs Break Out.)
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I'd move Ghostface down with Myers and Pig, but other then that- yeah, accurate.
(I might just be lucky with my Ghostfaces though- all the ones I get generally don't tunnel and are just chill.)
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1646757#Comment_1646757
Basically it's an instant heal that works with every single hook and bypasses 1shot downs, and has excellent timing and can be used a LOT in every match.
Consider how many times BT triggers in a match, or alternatively how often a Killer will deliberately not hit a Survivor for fear of BT.
Sure it's not as bad as DS, but that's not saying much. The quantity of procs easily makes up for the relative power of a single DS proc. A single Survivor with the perk can get up to 6 procs afterall.
By comparison OoO's problems are non-balance, since the informational advantage is significantly counterbalanced by it's downside, making it more of a playstyle change than an advantage, an extremely unhealthy playstyle change but still. Not that it's weak, don't missunderstand, it's just that DS and BT have power to a crazy degree. There is a reason everyone runs those 2 perks and not OoO.
A reminder that unless the Survivors are constantly hookbombing (which, even that has counterplay...), BT has counters. It's directly tied to your terror radius. It's completely countered by most stealth killers, along with just... not being around hook. Most killers can get 32 meters away from an unhook before it happens, and still pressure the hook afterwards. Billy and Blight have their mobility. Hag just has to wait for a trap to go off. Huntress can yeet hatchets from a distance, etc.
Imho BT isn't broken. It's got it's counters, and it has it's drawbacks.
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Cannonically? No reason. But because we practically get drip fed lore in this game, it's easy for fanon to be even more prevalent in the fandom side.
Personally I just enjoy them together because it's an interesting concept depending on the portrayal- it can create a really interesting dynamic that I personally enjoy.
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Tbh I don't want them to touch DS. It's definitely abused by Survivor players now, but if the Devs aren't careful with tweaks or reworks, it could easily be abused by Killer players. I just think they could make maps smaller so it's easier for killers to apply pressure on maps. (Along with, of course, removing Bloodlust and making more pallets fair.)
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Crawling around the floor for 4 minutes, not being able to do anything is as boring as playing an M1 killer with no chase perks at a safe pallet against a good survivor. I'd rather be on the hook, where I would both die faster, and feel like the game is progessing more on both sides.
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I mean, with how strong Ruin/Undying is, and the fact that Thana is getting a buff, I think we just need to wait it out and see how the Pop nerf really plays out. There's still a ton of regression/slow down perks in the game. (To be fair though, I was a killer player that never really enjoyed using Pop as much anyway, so...)
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I mean, the thing is, most of the perks outside of the Survivor meta have little to no impact on gameplay in the same way that the meta does, nor do they gurantee their usefulness like the meta does.
For example, I love running Flip-Flop. It's a really fun perk when you get it to work. The problem? If I'm sitting on the ground long enough to get that far for full Flip-Flop value, I will probably be picked up by a teammate, or, I won't have time to crawl away from hooks to ensure I can wiggle off because it doesn't give you enough progression towards the wiggle bar at tier 3. Compare this to Unbreakable, where if I was running that instead, I not only heal faster, but can also 99 my heals and pick myself up, and Unbreakable is just the better perk to run. It gurantees value when you get slugged. Flip-Flop either requires too much luck, or another perk (Tenacity) to be effective.
Another combo I love running is Chest Build, for the random nature- it makes games fun and exciting for me, since my recieved items change my playstyle- but it also doesn't gurantee value. Some games I can get three keys, other games I will get only grey toolboxes with sabo add-ons.
My point is, there's only so many perks on Survivor's side you can get guranteed value out of. If you don't run those, your build ends up being a liability- and as someone who plays exclusively at Rank 1, there are a lot of games where liability equals death if you're not in an optimal death squad.
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Baseline keys are fine.
Two solos with keys? Fine.
A duo queue with keys? Fine.
A SWF with keys? Nah.
Tbh I don't mind base keys. Heck, I don't even mind the strong add-ons, seeing as though they have a time constraint (Blood Amber). I do think though that SWF with a key is just nasty. I'll run a chest build with my group, and the minute I get a key, everyone will swap over to hatch mode. AKA: Rush gens and just leave. It's honestly not really my favourite way to play, nor the reason I love chest build, but it is efficient.
I do think though that unless you're going against an extremely optimal 4 man SWF with a key, Ebony Moris are a lot more impactful. The ability to delete anyone from the game is insane, and it makes killers really strong- especially considering how the threat of death hook, and having less teammates is what makes Killer's mid to late game so much stronger then the early game.
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@ZCerebrate said:
I think the biggest issue for a lot of newer killers on plague is that by breaking survivors and them choosing NOT to cleanse - meaning they can't heal. All they have to do is just hit gens (Loop -> Rescue -> Gen) ... with any lack of pressure or alternate slowdown like Sloppy Butcher and survivors running around trying to heal one another or self-care - the gen speeds seem faster for a killer with no extra mobility like her. Luck of tile spawns and like you said the CP spawn does play into it but how quickly you're downing survivors and forcing an OMEGUL with your 1~2 pools. If I end up with a really unlucky CP spawn I just pop it immediately and try to gain immediate pressure with Infectious and slugging... even when it resets I normally have 2~3 downs with at least a hook with all 5 gens up and then I go infecting and usually that's enough to make one person panic cleanse after 2nd hook starting a cascade.
This. I'm not going to say much on playing Plague as I've just never enjoyed it, so I'm sure everyone else here understands her problems better then I do- but I do think that her lack of slowdown doesn't help. Survivors really have no reason to do anything but bones and gens because they're sick. If they cleanse, sure, she gets her power- but they're also now fully healed and can go pop a squat on their nearest generator.
It's a shame too, I might not enjoy playing Plague, but I can appreciate that they tried to do something different and unique with her power.
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Tbh I don't really think the game is all that toxic. Sure, you get the occassional guy that throws, or the occassional guy who will work with the killer, but they're all pretty rare. If anything, it's the post game chat that's the most toxic- but that's all reportable.
I do wish though that the community would give up this 'holier than thou' mentality purely because they play more survivor or more killer then another player is just dumb imho. Especially since there are so many players that play both sides, and both sides have equally scummy things to play against- and equally entitled people.
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The fact that this game doesn't have a good endorsement system. I would love to give some players props and others a dislike for general in-game poor sportsmanship (You know, the stuff that doesn't really matter enough to report, but are annoying enough where you don't want to be queued with them again for a hot minute, like the Survivors that will repeatedly fast vault a window next to you because you took a chest from them when you're running a chest build, or the killer face camping you while hitting you repeatedly for having out played him at some LT walls.) I just wish the system was better built to encourage better behavior. I'm not quite sure what the current prop system really does, and there's some games where you don't have a reason to report someone, but you at least don't want to be queued with them again...
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I'll usually refer to a killer or survivor as a baby if they play like a newbie. There is a really clear gameplay difference between new killers and survivors, and veterans- and with enough playtime, you can see which player is where in game.
I also use this term to refer to players who have odd builds with low level perks that usually either struggle to synergize well together, or have no real value for a good player- because that usually means that they haven't put the time investment into that Killer/Survivor.
(I should note as well that of course I never talk poorly about these players in chat, and we really shouldn't be throwing around the term 'baby killer' or 'baby survivor' as a bad thing. This game has a pretty big learning curve for new players, and a massive grind. It's not easy for them, and being a baby killer or survivor isn't a bad thing. Especially a baby killer- it's hard to pick up a new killer, and I don't think people give new players enough credit imho.)
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@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:
and then we have the unnecessary compound 21 nerf, uh no killer has too much information too op
I mean, Compound 21 was also insanely strong compared to literally every other aura reading add-on in the game with no real downside. Compare old Compound 21 to any other Aura Reading Add-On, and how good it was compared to the other ones for it's rarity was insane.
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I mean, doesn't that literally just put it in line with Billy, Demo, and Oni? If I remember correctly, they also break pallets and walls at the same speed as other killers with their M2...
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I think it's just that a lot of players don't know what those terms really are, and they tend to throw them around very loosely. Camping and tunneling do exist, but not to the degree everyone claims- at least not in high ranks. (In purple and below, yes, there is a ton more camping and tunneling- less experienced killers seem to do it more often.) People tend to mistake the killer being lead back to hook by the other survivor they were chasing to be camping, or being farmed off hook by a teammate and downed immediately by the killer to be tunneling, when in reality, it's just the killer making a smart play. I wouldn't take it too personally, people just have a hard time accepting that they made mistakes. You see it in every game.
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The game I'm most proud of is also my funniest.
Be me, a solo survivor in Red Ranks. My build is Ace in the Hole, Plunderer's Instinct, Flip-Flop, and Balanced Landing.
It was Crotus Penn Asylum versus a Bubba. I did my part, got my chests, did a gen or two. I think we had two gens left, and I made a bad read.
Went for an unhook when he was chasing someone nearby. Didn't realize he had saw me coming for the unhook and dropped chase. As soon as the guy was off the hook, I was downed. I started healing up, and I was fully recovered as the team dropped like flies really fast- everyone was injured, and the area where we were downed was a dead zone. I crawl to a corner.
Everyone dies on hook. All the hooks closest to me where broken, and I was the last guy to be picked up.
Used Flip-Flop to wiggle off of Bubba's shoulder as the last guy finished the sacrafice animation, got a good BL proc in main building, and was able to escape through hatch after essentially killing the rest of my team.
Easy Flip-Flop value.
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Billy, Oni and Blight- Maybe I just haven't practiced enough, but I just hate their controls. I put them all together because their controls feel really similar to me, but god, I'm just terrible at those high mobility killers. Give me Huntress or Pig over them any day.
Survivors- Claudette, because I just don't like her cosmetics. I have the same issue with Meg, but at least she has Deathgarden mask to make up for it.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1640069#Comment_1640069
Calm spirit stops you from screaming which is why it counters scream related perks or power.
Puking and coughing isn't screaming
That's fair, I just figured Calm Spirit might since it does counter screaming, and as others said, it's similar to how it counters Doc with weeding people out who are stealthy. (Granted, Doc's power has more utility at loops, but his power also doesn't make people possible 1 shot downs so...)
Idk, I think it's kinda odd that Plague doesn't have a counter to her sick noises, since she does have other tracking abilities- even if they aren't as good as sick noises. I don't think it's gamebreaking considering how little Plague is played, but it is a bit odd that Calm Spirit doesn't counter it. (I know it only says Screams and Crows, but if they were to make a counter to sick noises, I'd rather it be tacked on to Calm Spirit- Iron Will is strong enough as is.)
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Tbh I don't think DBD is that toxic compared to other communities. Sure, there are a lot of entitled players, but I don't think the community is as toxic as everyone claims it is. I think there's a lot worse out there when it comes to toxic games (like League or Overwatch.)
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As others said, sick noises are not grunts of pain. I'm not sure if Calm Spirit negates the sick sound instead, but I would assume it would since it counters screams from Infectious and Doctor.
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I kinda agree? I mean, yes, a lot of killers don't kick generators, but like a lot of people said, there's not much of a point. Even when I play killer with Pop, I feel like I have to usually give up something more important- a chase- just to get regression. I guess that's why I prefer Ruin+Undying. I get to have generator regression while still being able to maintain pressure on other survivors.
Tbh, I think the big issue is just map size. It's hard for killers to pressure maps when they can't get to the gens in time- which is just made worse by killer movement speed, which is why the high mobility killers do so well imho.
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@xEcoLog1cDuk3Xx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1638624#Comment_1638624
I get where you're coming with the many statements you used but let's be real this is BHVR that's in control of what does and doesn't happen. I understand why many people find it frustrating to play against Spirit with green add-ons + Stridor as well have Deathslinger shoot over/between loops but statements like that don't debunk the fact that Spirit and Deathslinger have counterplay in chase. In the 1v1 they're pretty strong but the game is 1v4, like you said the best way many people play around those 2 is if the survivors do the OBJ. The game right now is in a bad state where gen speeds are to fast and in turn killers will slug, tunnel bring mori's with noed and then on it's a back and forth with which side can do the most BS.
Granted "the chase" is fun part of the game but the only ones having fun are the survivors so in turn many killer players gravitate towards the stronger killers i.e. the best, high tier and potential to win as the game isn't designed around top play. 9/10 many killers rely on the survivors to make a minimum of 2 mistakes (per chase) not to mention most of the maps have way more safe and god pallets/loops than mindgame-able pallets/loops. In today's day and age in DBD it doesn't matter on how long 1 survivor can be chased, it matters on how fast the gens will be completed.
I mean, I agree that BHVR is the one in control of all of this, however, when you play killers like Spirit or Deathslinger who really don't have counter play in the 1v1 (just see Scott Jund's videos on Spirit), And if anything, DBD has only really gotten better in terms of balance and maps and loops- really, just compare DBD 2016 to current DBD and it's really crazy how far the game has far.
Really, I don't think the game will ever be completely balanced. It's already hard enough to balance a non-asymetrical game, but balancing a game like this honestly sounds awful, and I do applaud the Devs for their work- even if I do think they need to listen to some members of the community a bit more. (But maybe they do, and we just don't see it- we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes in BHVR.)
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@Corikstarr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1638571#Comment_1638571
I'm actually a Killer main, I was just continuing the discussion for the most part. You make a lot of really good points, and that was exactly what I was hoping for. Just some discussion.
When I do play Survivor, I don't really encounter camping or tunneling all that often. In fact, I can think of once that I was directly face camped, and I was tunneled earlier today (for five damn generators), but I don't know how often it's actually happening. I don't personally see these two things happening as much as these forums would have you believe.
You're totally fine! I actually primarily play Survivor at Rank 1 with a casual SWF, and honestly, I never really come across very many campers. Usually when I do, the killer is low rank (as I sometimes play with players who are still in their first 100 hours of the game, and barely out of grey ranks, or matchmaker just had a stroke again), or the Killer is just trying to secure a kill in late game. (Which, honestly, doesn't bug me. Let the poor man get a kill.) Heck, I'll even be amoung the first to admit that I see survivors complain about camping when it didn't happen constantly. (As both a killer and survivor.) Honestly, I hate when people go off saying the killer camped them, when in reality their fellow survivor decided to either go for the unhook in front of them, or decided to go unhook mid-chase without BT, or commiting to a 1 for 1- it's just dumb imho.
Tunneling is a weird one though. It definitely happens more often when you have no obsession to punish the killer with a possible DS, but I see it a decent amount when I play in my SWF. We get a fair amount of killers who will just tunnel our newer friends out of the game because, well, they're new and an easy kill. Usually they'll smack a gen with pop, and then come straight back to the unhook- not allowing a BT proc.
Honestly, I might just be lucky, but I don't really think either of these issues are really bad enough to warrant any changes. Neither really happen to me enough for me to care, and they're both easy to counter- especially with all the second chance perks there are right now. It just requires players to know what they’re doing and to play smart.
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@xEcoLog1cDuk3Xx said:
This is just another case of survivor players refusing to learn and adapt their play-styles to become better players.
Both Spirit and Deathslinger have similar counters. They’re both 110%, if they don’t use their powers correctly/effectively then they are 110% for XX seconds.
Dropping safe pallets early in chase will 8/10 times force them to break the pallet as well windows hard counter Spirit while Deathslinger has a 50% to get a confirm hit.
(Also I can never see Hag being on the same level as Spirit and Nurse but not better than Doctor, Freddy, Pyramid Head & Blight)
I mean, to be fair, a lot of their 'counterplay' is more so from sitting on gens and playing stealthy. And doing that usually requires certain builds and a lot of coordination between Survivors to get gens done quickly- which solo queue doesn't have, and that casual SWFs really just don't care enough to do. To add to it, there's a lot of complaints about how 'boring' it is to play against stealth (to the point where people will literally bring moris for Blendettes), so it really becomes a 'screwed if you do, screwed if you don't' situation.
Plus, it does take what a lot of people really like out of DBD- which is chases. Maybe it's just what I've seen, but a lot of players like the fair loops and mind games. Survivors like being able to outplay the killer because they played smart and not just running in a circle around safe loops all game- just like how killers don't want to hold W against a safe loop and would probably rather try to do some mindgames at something like an LT wall. Killers like Spirit and Deathslinger usually take that part out of the equation for survivors if the killer player is decent. (Or in Deathslinger's case, also if he isn't at high walls.) Just like how a survivor used to be able to run infinites and not be stopped, a good Spirit or Deathslinger absolutely decimates the 1v1, and even a good Survivor can't do much about it without support from their team.
Honestly, I don't mind them- I find Spirit fun to play as and against, and I find Deathslingers frustrating purely because the ones I like to face have a tendency to tunnel (and it always happens on games I dont have DS on...), but they're not bad or unbalanced. I could definitely see why people would complain about them though.
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@Kind_Lemon said:
(This is a post that's been updated and moved from the PTB archives, because I still believe in this posts' validity)
Much like The Hag's aura reading ability upon a survivor triggering a trap, the Killer Instinct effect for Pyramid Head should be an add-on only effect. Scarlet Egg, Misty Day..., and Leopard-Print Fabric should all add onto his power the Killer Instinct effect (instead of simply elongating base duration). The Hag's case is the best comparison, but The Nightmare's alternate pallet power also gets my point across to a lesser degree.
This aspect of Pyramid Head's power is like if Trapper had Killer Instinct on survivors that disarmed traps or if The Hag had Killer Instinct on survivors that triggered traps. These effects wouldn't add much to the killer and would prevent the power from having any add-ons that granted aura reading to the killer instead. The Trapper should have an add-on that shows the auras of survivors that disarm his traps, but this post is about how Pyramid Head's add-ons that elongate Killer Instinct should instead grant aura reading on survivors (like the mirror pieces Myers has). His base Killer Instinct should be removed and replaced with either nothing or a loud noise notification.
I gotta disagree, I think the Trails of Torment are great as is- if anything, as someone else said, they should get better buffs with add-ons into auras over killer instinct.
Also, I don't think you have great comparisons... Hag can know where a Survivor ran after triggering a trap without teleporting if she was close enough, because the Trap will turn to face whatever direction the Survivor went- besides, as a Hag, you don't chase. You push people into your web, and you slowly kill them. Unlike PH, you have no range. It's traps or nothing.
Trapper also can get valuable information from trap disarms depending on his add-ons- correct me if I'm wrong, but with Honing Stone putting survivors into the Injured status, they're easier to track and down. (Yes, I know it's not the same as an aura, but I think everyone can agree that Trapper needs some hard buffs and a look back over his add-ons.)
PH needs something more to his Trails because currently, all they give is Killer Instinct and Torment. (Which, Torment isn't always the best thing to use anyway.) And considering how fast Trails disappear (which, is sort of the other reason why I don't agree with your argument- Trails disappear really fast. Trapper's traps don't when they're disarmed. Hags traps do, but she can reset them and they have a limited range without certain add-ons, and can only be disarmed by either flashlights, or risking a hit if she isn't carrying someone.)
TL;DR: Trails are fine as is. Just don't walk straight into them and this won't really be a problem, as Killer Instinct isn't a game changer.
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@Corikstarr said:
How about stop or slow hook progression when the killer is within a certain range of the hook? Could even make that range expand when the hooked survivor reaches stage 2.
Hard disagree chief. Hooks don't need to be stopped or slowed when a killer is nearby. The killer can already get punished for facecamping as long as the survivor team has braincells. Maybe it's just me, but if you run in for an unhook in front of the facecamping Bubba who hasn't left hook, he probably deserves the kill- besides, there are already perks to counter that behaviour- like Camraderie, or BT against a non-instadown killer.
Facecamping sucks, and it's not fun to play against. But as a killer, it's generally not fun to do, and in my experience, is either done out of necessity (such as securing the 1k or the 2k in end game) or just to get challenges done. (And trust me, when you play killer and you feel like you have to camp for the 1k or 2k in end game because you know you played like crap, the end game screen and chat are punishing enough when you already feel like you did terribly.) Granted, there are some people who facecamp on the regular, no matter the reason- but hey, they're probably also the same guys who do flashlight clicks into a DC when they get downed first as Survivor, so whatever.
I think your idea would just be needlessly nerfing killers in a way that is unnecessary, purely to buff solo survivors, and would be way too abuseable by SWFs. If facecamping is a huge issue in your games, start running Kindred and learn to sit on gens while the person sits on hook. Punish the killer by forcing out gens, and if your team wants to play dumb, let them. They can go play hero, while you sit on gens and prepare for a hatch game.