tjt85
tjt85
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Discordance is a solid perk. But I personally prefer Surveillance, which is another slept on perk. Call of Brine is also a good info perk that I think is overlooked because people see it primarily as a bad regression perk.
They're all good choices for generator defense builds (especially on a high mobility Killers like Billy).
I've never used Gearhead much despite The Deathslinger being one of my mains. Perhaps I should give it another look. I could see it being a very good choice for Huntress or Artist.
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@aewi said:
i would rather see mori offerings than mori offerings be turned into incentivizing moring people for bloodpoints. don't know why they're still going through with the finisher mori system in general tbh. big shock when i saw it in the livestream. it seemed like a very split 50/50 decision based on the chat's reaction. very odd and bold of them to go with such a polarizing feature.
My best guess is that they've had feedback from surveys that lots of Survivors don't really like moris. Personally I like them, though I can see how it might feel like rubbing salt in the wound to some players.
I think it beats watching the hook sacrifice animation for the 1000th time and there are even still some moris I haven't experienced yet, despite having over 1000+ hours in the game.
I don't like this change but if it needs to change for the health of the game, I personally don't see any harm in at least keeping the green mori as it currently is.
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I'm not giving up hope. After all, Fortnite has cross progression on Switch and other platforms via an Epic account, so there's no reason why something similar couldn't be implemented for DBD.
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Not gonna lie, I'm… Not a fan. This will be a controversial change for sure.
I'll be sad to see the ebony mori gone. I like to use it to keep track of hooks when I get weaker Survivors and I don't want to end the match for them too quickly if I'm stomping too hard.
And since I like to let the last Survivor go, I almost never run the yellow mori offering. So from that point of view, I think they should at least keep the green offering as it is.
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@Raccoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718798#Comment_3718798
Nice.
I can't check again until after work :(
I was sat here constantly refreshing my browser and I still missed out on a free key, anyway.
But I'm glad somebody here got the game.
Edit: I got a key!
I hope there are plenty left for the rest of you, but keep trying if you're able, because there might still be some keys left.
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Not gonna lie, I was looking forward to teaming up with another Legion like a proper gang and annoying twice the number of Survivors.
I think it will still be fun though, even with the limitations. They did say that it was a first iteration, so there's still hope for more Killers in the future.
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Nope 😥
You snooze you lose, I guess.
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I'm tentatively looking forward to it, but I have lots of questions about how it might work. Will the prestiges for my mains on both Switch and PC be merged? (not a big deal if they do, but I like to keep a low prestige default Dwight on Switch specifically for running a silly locker perk build). Will content that came free with the Switch version become accessible on PC or stay locked to that platform? And a lot of my licensed Killers were bought as DLC on PC, so I'm guessing I won't be able to use those on my Switch?
I guess we'll have to wait and see. Even if we just get to share the stuff we unlocked in the shrine/events/rifts, that will still be pretty neat.
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I have played a little bit of Huntress on Switch and using her hatchets is a challenge for sure. What controller do you use? I personally find that with the standard joy-cons, setting the sensitivity to 15% for both Killer and Survivor improves my game play quite a bit.
I know that sounds really low, but I think the game isn't well optimized for the standard Switch controllers and a lower sensitivity makes aiming the camera a little bit more precise and controllable. I recommend loading into a few custom bot games and trying out different sensitivities to see what works best for you. Hopefully you can improve with your Huntress hatchets that way. I think she's one of the most challenging Killers to get good with though, so I wouldn't feel too bad about missing your hatchets so often. I just play this Killer for fun, without an expectation to do well with her. Ranged Killers on the Switch are near impossible to play as imho.
It might also be worth investing in the pro controller or a decent 3rd party controller if you haven't already, though I can't recommend any since I mostly just use the joy-cons in a grip.
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Thanks!
I'm not usually all that interested in banners and badges, but I do like these.
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I don't mind getting Killer or Survivor rituals, since I play both sides anyway. I just wish there was an option to choose not to recieve rituals for certain characters. No BHVR, I will not play a game as Hag, Spirit, Nurse, Doctor or Feng and there's nothing you can do to make me…
Unless you give us shards or rift ragments. Then maybe we can talk.
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For the women: Thalita, Ada, Sable, Yun-jin.
For the men: Alan, Gabriel and Steve (Best likeness in the game imho. Looks just like Joe Keery, who is not incidentally also a cutie).
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I'd be very surprised if Legion didn't have the best win rate at low MMR of all the Killers.
Less experienced players tend to do things you should never do against a Legion. They like to group together on gens. They try to hide from a Legion in Frenzy. They also hate to play injured, so they either heal often and give the Legion lots of free slowdown, or they play injured and fail to make it to a loop, gifting the Killer easy downs. Legion is a nightmare for players that like to stealth and can't loop well (I include myself in that category).
And there's also a good chance they'll hit the dirt because they don't understand the deep wound mechanic yet (BHVR really need to do a better job of explaining the deep wound status to newer players).
I say this even as a Legion main, they are definitely a Killer that I find difficult to verse.
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I don't judge anyone on either side too harshly for noping out of a match if they're not having much fun. I play both sides (60% Survivor / 40% Killer, though I do play more Survivor these days) and I've had bad enough experiences that made me want to walk away from the game for the rest of the day.
I'm not proud, but I've been "that guy" more times than I'd like to admit. Usually, it comes after a string of horrible games, so I assume that's also what's going on if a teammate or Killer decides to call it quits early and I don't begrudge them too much for it. I've been there.
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I personally recommend Trapper. He's good for learning the fundamentals like how Survivors loop around structures. Plus, it's just super satisfying for a well placed trap to catch a Survivor at a pivotal moment and turn the match around for you. It hardly matters that he's relatively weak, since she should be playing against other newer players for her first couple of matches.
He certainly has his frustrations but that's OK, playing Killer can be frustrating and she'll have to experience that for herself sooner or later.
For whatever reason, I've never enjoyed playing as Wraith (or against him for that matter) but of the free Killers, he's another obvious choice. But I think his ability to sneak up on survivors and get lots of free hits doesn't prepare you well for Killers that have a terror radius or somewhat poor mobility.
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If someone brings a map offering, I guess I'll just have to kill everyone now just to make sure I got the right Survivor. I hate map offerings with a passion.
In my Survivor games, it did seem like Killers were being nastier than usual if a map offering was in play and I guess now I know why.
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Since the patch, matches have been fine for me on both Switch and PC. So I've been one of the lucky ones.
I guess the only way to know is to try it for yourself.
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The entity matched me with these poor unfortunate souls and I may have created some new Legion haters tonight :(
It was very obvious that they didn't stand much of a chance, though I didn't realise they were completely new to the game!
Eventually I stopped hooking anyone, only using my power to vault and chase and try to get 5th hit downs. I was also going to let them do some gens and heal up, so that they could at least earn some BP before they died but I guess I went a bit too hard. Before I realised the error of my ways, it was too late. So I promptly sacrificed David and hunted down the bots. Gave Nancy the hatch as is my custom (I almost always spare the last Survivor).
I'm sorry David and Nea. I guess it really is better to be swift and merciless in situations like this…
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She's like a buffed up version of how she was before her first rework, if that means anything to you. Not as strong, but still decent against most teams. There are plenty of Survivors out there with no idea how to counter her power.
I think she's still fun, but I'm only an occasional Sadako enjoyer and I very rarely go up against the really strong survivors. You can make the argument that she can't compete against an organised and efficient team, but that's true of most of the Killer roster if they're keen on playing "nice".
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Kindred, Deja Vu or Resilience, We'll Make It and a decent exhaustion perk or Windows of Opportunity (their choice).
It would be pretty tough to go up against 4 Survivors running those perks, I think.
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They're not all that controversial tbh, but here are mine:
Self-care with botany is a top tier perk combo.
I may be biased (since they're my main), but facing The Legion really isn't that annoying. The most annoying Killer in my book is Ghost Face, yet he seems to be almost universally loved.
Looping isn't the be all and end all. Stealthy play like walking around the map and keeping a low profile is an underrated and disrespected strategy (though of course, it's not always the right play).
Noed can often feel unfair at times but that's OK. Doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed.
Made For This wasn't so strong that it deserved what BHVR did to it. I can't remember the last time I saw anyone use this perk outside of a dedicated anti-tunnelling build.
The DC penalty should be capped or removed.
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I don't know why Otz thinks this change will affect newer players so much.
And this is such a minor "nerf", I really don't think it will make much difference to her performance for most other players either. I'm not a very good Plague, so I'm probably at a much lower MMR than Otz. And from my point of view, it's her ability to keep Survivors injured that makes her strong, not her ability to get ranged downs. She's like Legion in that respect, but with a little bit extra. Her ranged instadown attack is more of a bonus to new players, since it takes a fair amount of practice to be really effective with it.
Besides, weaker teams also cleanse very often. So it won't be such a big deal if you lose your power, since you'll probably have plenty of corrupted fountains around the map to get it back pretty quickly anyway.
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It's a fine startegy to use at the right moment (for example, if the Killer is behind and wants to stage a come back), but I don't think it's healthy for the game overall. Especially when it becomes too prevalent. I don't see it too often outside of the events, but I hear certain regions face it more often than others.
My main reason for disliking the strategy is that it's just not fun for the majority of the player base and it drives away the more casual players. I'd be willing to bet most Survivors want to play trials where they get to play the game they queued up for, had the chance to earn a bit of bp and pip and yes, got to interact with the Killer a fair amount. But few players enjoy being hard tunnelled out of the match at 5 gens before they've had a chance to do much of anything at all.
An online multiplayer game that fails to attract and keep casual players is at best, an extremely niche offering that will have little appeal beyond a hardcore of fans and at worst, not likely to survive for long. I think DBD would face the latter fate if it became too competitive. I don't think we have a player base that wants to sweat that hard.
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The game must be working OK for some people out there, but I'm not lucky enough to be one of them.
I guess there's no way to know just how buggy a new patch is going to be when it goes live, but this is the most broken I've ever seen the game (granted, I've only been playing for just over a year, so maybe there have been worse updates).
Looking on the bright side, I think the new engine will perform a little bit more efficiently on the older platforms once they iron out all the bugs. And the new shop interface is pretty snappy.
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I played 2 killer games on Switch the other night. First one was on Coldwind (Abattoir) and a terrible mess. Just a stuttering slideshow at best and a rubber-banding nightmare at worst for the entire match. It was honestly the worst performance I've ever seen from the game and essentially unplayable.
Then immediately after I played a game on the Yamaoaka estate and it was more or less just fine, if not totally perfect. Very strange. I hope they roll out a fix for this soon, because I was looking forward to coming back after my break.
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Oh sweet!
I love charms. They're my favourite collectable item in the game and I'm kinda sad that I missed out on some of the better ones over the years.
So I'm happy to see them in the store (bit of a shame you can't buy them with shards, though).
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Spare a thought for the Nintendo Switch players, that version of the game doesn't even have achievements (but maybe that's Nintendo's fault, I don't know).
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DBD is not really "balanced" by design. It's intended to be more Killer sided overall, with incomplete information made available to both sides. I think BHVR tend to approach balance with the aim to reduce common player frustrations, but SWFs and Killers running the best stuff / playing optimally can really throw all that effort out of the window.
My advice is to set your own goals when playing Survivor. Play for the BP, tome challenges or try to come up with fun builds and attempt to get some value from them. I've found I'm happiest playing when I'm able to make my own fun in this game.
If you want to escape more often but don't want to join a SWF, then you'll have to develop a more selfish and evasive play style and aim for hatch escapes. If you want to join a SWF without actually joining a SWF, play Survivor when the Killer BP bonus is up, as this tends to be the time when lots of SWFs are likely to be playing. You'll still be able to take advantage of their better team communication, even if you're not in on it (and don't forget to bring Kindred!).
Likewise, if you want more of a challenge playing Killer, play at times when the more casual players have likely logged off for the night (for me that's typically past 10 PM at night). I'm lucky if I can get a 1K playing late at night.
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I agree, this build is way too much for most survivor teams to handle, especially on a high mobility Killer. Sure, you can say "be good in chase", but how often can all 4 Survivors on a team run the Killer well? It's nearly impossible to stop the ball rolling once the Killer gets a down.
Even before BHVR buffed gen blocking, Pop and Pain Res were more than enough to get the job done in most trials. Trouble is, if you buff gen perks to give some killers more slow down options, they won't think "Oh neat, I can take something other than slow down into a trial". They'll just take 4 slow downs anyway and it doesn't end up encouraging perk diversity like you hoped.
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I'd run WoO if it didn't absolutely kill my immersion with all those yellow auras everywhere.
For me, it's Adrenaline. Probably a great perk in a SWF that rushes gens, but I don't understand why anyone in Solo Q would ever run this perk. I might live to see the gates being powered 3 out of 10 games. It's a total waste of a perk slot in most trials and I'd much rather bring Plot Twist instead.
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People seem to be forgetting that we're also getting an engine update to Unreal 5 (unless that's also been reverted?). That's pretty significant in my view, especially if it improves performance for the older platforms (but I guess we'll see about that). It also seems like the engine upgrade caused a lot of new bugs, which probably didn't help with other things this patch if they had to devote more resources towards fixing them.
I don't have much else to say except that I actually don't think UW nerf is all that bad. Still seems decently strong to me and it's not at all a dead perk. I stopped equipping it on my Huntress. Eventually I just felt guilty running it as some Survivors seem to absolutely hate this perk in its current form and would give up early. With the nerf, hopefully I won't have that problem anymore.
Although it's a bit sad that the Twins rework hasn't been a success, I'm glad the QoL changes will still go through. That's all I really wanted from a Twins update anyway.
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I can think of a few perks to buff (and how I would buff some of them):
Pharmacy - I'd make it so it grants you the ability to see chests within 24 metres whenever injured.Diversion - Why doesn't it charge up while in chase? I think it should.
Borrowed Time - Aside from Sprint Burst, there are no decent anti-tunneling perks that new players can access for free. So in addition to its current effect, I think the extra 10 seconds of bonus endurance should apply to being unhooked as well. Perhaps this is too strong, so for balance maybe this extra feature should deactivate in the end game.
Visionary - Why would you ever use this perk when DeJa Vu exists?
Cut loose - Activation time is way too short and it has a crazy long cool down.
I think most Killer perks are at least fine, but here are a few that could be buffed:
Superior Anatomy - Why does this perk have such a long cool down (30 seconds!)? Is it really so strong?
I also think every Huntress and Wraith Perk could use a buff. With the exception of Huntress Lullaby, they're just terrible.
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It depends. If games have been going well and I've already escaped a few times then sure, I'll usually try to go in for the save. Especially if the Survivor on the hook played well or helped me out in some way.
But if I haven't escaped for a while, then I'm sorry but I'm out of here and I'll smell you later. It rarely pays to be altruistic in Solo Q, so I tend to look after number one a lot more often these days.
If I'm on the hook in end game and nowhere near an open exit gate, I die as quickly as I can since I'd rather the team took the win and got the two/three out. I don't have any hard feelings towards Survivors who want to leave when they have the opportunity. I've seen too many wins turn into losses in the end game.
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I don't know about that. The threat of losing a pip never has never stopped me from losing my cool. If anything, I think some players will either stick around more often or it will make no difference at all to the DC rates.
I can't wait for this change and personally, I will be more inclined to play out those horrible games where I'm just having no fun at all. Like infinite tombstone Myers or those games where the Killer is dead set on tunnelling me out early and I'll be losing a pip no matter what.
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https://youtu.be/rNjtvnnibeQ?si=eJ5pC6f1erWiSpOz
Myers, because the noise he makes when stunned is absolutely hilarious to me.
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3 gen is dead as a strat in my opinion. I used to rely on it a fair bit for many of my wins as Killer.
Holding a gen is only really viable for the strong 3 gen Killers that the new system was brought in to combat (e.g. Skull Merchant, Singu, Knight), which is kind of ironic. Demo is a better 3 gen Killer than most though, I'll give you that.
But yeah, just burn through all his regression events by running away early and you're good. I think even Solo Q should be able to break most 3 gen situations these days.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696925#Comment_3696925
They're making a lot of Killers too easy on PC. That's a fact. Huntress doesn't need 7 hatchets for PC when they have 120 fps. How hard is it to backrev a Survivor with Hillbilly on PC considering he has a non-existent cooldown? These Killers are busted on PC.
I am an absolutely terrible Huntress, on PC and console. I used to run leather loop or infantry belt every game, but that's been replaced with Oak Haft now that she has an extra hatchet. Believe me, it does not make a huge difference and I still get regularly 4 outed.
BHVR buffed Huntress for players like me not for players like Coconuts. That's not to say I think she needed buffing (because I don't), I can at least understand why BHVR buffed her. Billy is the 3rd best Killer in the game right now imho. Should he be? I don't know, but playing as him doesn't = free wins, even with all of his buffs.
I do think certain Killers have been over-buffed (Trickster, for example) and I question some of BHVR's choices, but I feel like they have a better understanding of the current state of DBD than some people give them credit. Especially for the player base as a whole rather than the hardcore veterans. Highly dedicated top level players are important too, but they make up such a small proportion of the community and I think their takes on the game don't always match up with reality for most players.
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It depends on my mood, but if I'm feeling generous I usually just play a bit slower, using the game mostly as an opportunity to practice my powers. Maybe I'll pretend to find something interesting on the other side of the map if they need a reset to heal and regroup. Since they're usually too scared to touch gens within the killer's terror radius, these games can last a long time, even if you don't defend / kick gens.
I'll alternate hook states until 3 are dead and hopefully everyone has earned some BP. Then I let the last one go (same as I always do, regardless of skill).
But sometime I regret my choices when the last two go into hiding. If this happens, I'll try to 4K if I can because it's pretty boring circling the map trying to find extra stealthy survivors. Maybe it's fun for them to evade me for so long, but I'll still feel like they're wasting my time and haven't acknowledged that I've been very, very easy on them.
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I think what she and other streamers see as removing "skill expression", I tend to view more as BHVR's attempt to equalise certain aspects of the game. Whether that's to remove arguably unfair game mechanics affecting only a handful of Killers, or to bring the capabilities of PC Killers more in line with those of console players, I think what they're trying to do is make a more polished and consistent experience for everyone. When you consider that most of the player base is on console and plays DBD fairly casually, how can you justify 1000+ hour PC gamers having additional competitive advantages because they learned how to
exploit unintended bugs"express their skill", when they almost certainly already have enough skill to beat nearly everyone else that plays the game?I can understand why highly experienced players would be more upset about these things being removed from the game than maybe I would be (I never experienced them as a recent player). They need new things to learn and experience after so many thousands of hours of game play. Slushie admitted as much in the video, there's not much left for her to learn.
Can anyone really say they're surprised that after 1000's of hours, some players are growing a bit tired of the game play loop? I honestly can't think of any game that I've put more time into than DBD (unless I've being playing that game for 30+ years).
I'm also taking a break too. Because I feel like I do need a break to keep the experience fresh (and for other reasons as well, mainly my frustration at sinking so much time into the game, but not being a much better player than when I first started).
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I did a top 15 because I think the B tier Killers are very, very near to the A tier in terms of strength. I know many would disagree with putting Wraith up there, but I honestly think if we're talking about the very best Wraiths with PhDs in mind gaming, they're probably the only basic attack Killer that high MMR Survivors are ever likely to encounter on a regular basis.
I thought about adding maybe Skull Merchant or Sadako in his place, but I can't be sure if they really are top tier or if most teams just don't know (or care to learn) how to play against them.
I can't personally comment on the new Twins yet because I haven't watched much game play (I'm taking a short DBD break).
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I don't know if I would say it's intentionally deceptive, but I do think that it's not transparent. As Tru and Otz said, the system is not explained to the player base very well, if at all. As a relatively new player of just over a year, I had to do my own research on forums and such to learn this game even has an MMR system (alongside a great deal of other poorly explained gameplay mechanics, but that's for another discussion).
I think the bigger issue stems from the SBMMR system being suspended most of the time in order to bring down queue times. I'm under no illusions, I am definitely not high MMR. But I've almost certainly been matched up with players that are a lot higher in MMR and also a lot lower. Telling your player base that the game has skills-based matchmaking, only for them to find dramatic swings in the strength of their opponents or teammates leads to players thinking that the system is broken, or simply doesn't exist.
Personally, I don't think the system works for Solo Survivor at all. Mainly because selflessness is rewarded for SWFs but punishing for Solo players. SWFs can afford to sacrifice themselves for the good of the team because they know that in the next trial, another member of the group will do the same for them and they can still maintain a good escape rate. Solo players on the other hand have to play selfishly to be consistent, which leads to frustration and resentment among the player base towards "rat" survivors playing for hatch / stealthing when things start to go wrong or otherwise looking after number 1.
I like that the game supports different playstyles, but maybe for the good of a functioning MMR system, it should take into account the performance of the team over all when calculating MMR. It should be weighted towards rewarding team play a little bit more than it currently is. For all I know, it may already be doing this. But we'll never really know, because again the system is not transparent and communicates very little information to players regarding performance.
Basically, we have two feedback systems that are visible but ultimately meaningless (prestige and grade) and one ranking system that is totally invisible and opaque to the players. So no wonder there is so much confusion, frustration and lack of understanding about how MMR does (or doesn't) work.
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@Dinoraptus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3694814#Comment_3694814
I was wondering about that, I feel bad for the homies stuck on Switch, PS4, and Xbox One. I imagine that they probably wouldn't release it if it would impact a decent portion of the player-base in a negative way, so I wouldn't worry about it, it will more than likely help. Hoping that cross progression comes along in some way to save you guys soon.
Fortnite also uses the Unreal 5 engine and it's still very playable on the Switch (though I do get occasional lag spikes, but that could just be my Internet or Server issues).
So hopefully older platforms shouldn't be too negatively affected by the upgrade. It might even be an improvement 🤞
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I'm extending my break for a bit longer for a similar reason.
I don't know if this is a wider experience or it's just me, but all of the relatively chill Survivors and Killers have seemingly disappeared from my games. DBD has been a lot of hard work recently and I just don't have the energy for it right now. That said, a "chill" game for me is a potentially stressful one for the opponent, so there are always two sides to the experience. I just wish my games had a bit more variety to them.
Add to that burn out and a low tolerance for the usual DBD irritations, I've decided it's best I stay away from the game until the next big update.
It can often feel like MMR doesn't exist in this game. Truth is, sometimes it really doesn't. You're often only in the lobby to get a trial started for the other players who have been waiting for a while. And if less players are playing at the moment (often the case after a big event), skill differences can be very dramatic.
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@bornagain234 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693326#Comment_3693326
I hope they drop those platforms. They hold us back.
I cannot disagree more, for obvious reasons. There would be lots of ill feelings if they did and more importantly, lots of unhappy customers too (including this one).
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3693326#Comment_3693326
It is not 32GB bigger, it is 32GB big. So you wont need more space on your Console, the 32GB replace and do not add.
It's actually about 14 GB on my Switch (but I think it's 20 GB fully downloaded without a physical game card).
So long as it's not much bigger than that, I should be OK.
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Oh heck… I hope the next update won't be that big on the Switch. Pretty sure I don't have the extra space for an update that huge. I don't know much about the differences between the two engines, but I'm hoping it means better optimisation for the older / low powered platforms.
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I always enjoy the random perk modes when they appear in the tomes, so maybe something along those lines would be cool.
But I'm mostly content to see what BHVR come up with next. I honestly wasn't expecting the My Little Oni mode and it's been the most fun mode so far.
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I like it but I don't think enough people know about it.
I've just spent 5 minutes as Survivor waiting for a game and the Killer squished me in less than 30 seconds (Killer queues are instant but I've played enough of that mode already).
It's fine to have short game modes like this, but they're not much fun if the wait for a game is longer than the actual game itself.
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These seem like mostly fine changes to me. Not sure why the speed boost duration for Adren has been reduced but losing it is not the end of the world.
I do wish they'd removed the blindness debuff from Ultimate Weapon though. Hopefully it will be less of a problem now that the perk has a longer cooldown and less time to activate. With the aura reading, I think it may be an even more effective perk for proxy camping, which could be a little problematic but I guess we'll see.
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YES! Thank you BHVR!
I am so, so glad they've finally decided to remove this frustration. Now I might actually be able to hit Iri 1 Survivor for the first time. Should hopefully mean that players no longer feel like they need to sweat in every game to rush back to iri 1 or to avoid de-pipping, too.
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@goodfriday said:
This is why I do not get why people complain about swfs? I rarely if ever see dcs when its a swf, they tend to at least stick around and play games vs solo que who is most likely to give up.
I had a 3 man instantly DC against a Singularity once. Lucky for me the Singu was chill. He killed all the bots and let me do the last gen and I got the Left 4 Dead achievement. What a legend.
But yeah, in my experience if one member of a SWF DC's then they all DC.

