thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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Because my cat begs me to feed him then scarfs his food like a little piggy, only to puke it up 5 minutes later and then have the AUDACITY to ask for more food.
No bro. I fed you. Eat like a normal person please.
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In most cases, if it's the first hit you are better off taking the hit than using the pallet. It depends on the situation of course, but I avoid dropping pallets when healthy unless I feel like I need to or it's a point in the game where I can afford to use it.
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If they adjust some of the boxes on the outside of the window and remove that... spool thingy by the front door I think that could fix it. It could be a semi-infinite running clockwise, but then you can force a slow vault running counter-clockwise.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204810#Comment_1204810
All four Survivors are completely disabled, unable to work on their objectives, are reduced to a pitiful fraction of their base capabilities, and are going to all die anyway; hooking them will only speed up this process for the sake of pacing.
In any other game, this would absolutely be considered a loss. But because the devs have coddled Survivors with free second chance after free second chance, they have the power to say, “No, we haven’t lost” without actually mustering up any sort of merit to certify their point.
Notice how I’ve never actually denied the Killer made a mistake. He absolutely did. But my issue is not the repercussions of the mistake he made. My issue is that the game is so poorly-balanced that the “mistake” was even there to make at all.
In a war zone, placing your nation’s flag down on a battlefield with no enemy soldiers capable of fighting back is not a mistake. But in this game, it apparently is. That’s where my complaint lies.
I DID NOT HEAR THE FAT LADY.
In other words, the game is not actually over until it's over. It doesn't matter how much it looks like you won. Until that results screen pops up, the game is not over.
-Someone could use DS (which is what happened).
-Someone could have Unbreakable.
-He might not have had any free hooks when picking up one of them and they wiggle free.
-He maybe doesn't find the last one, the other 3 die and then the last one gets hatch.
-Same as above, but killer finds hatch and the last survivor has Adren.
-Someone could kobe.
There are multiple what-if scenarios where the game is not actually over. Stop saying it was over. It's not.
By this logic any group of survivors that get to gates and open them only to get sucked into an altruistic vortex of saves and die should have actually won the game. Because they were standing in the exit gate ready to leave, the game was basically over. SMH.
@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204836#Comment_1204836
We can sit here and argue all day but the fact of the matter is DS was used in a way that is way outside it's original boundary. The player did not outplay me with any amount of skill so they do NOT deserve the merit of the perk as it was intended to be used.
You made a mistake. You're right in that they didn't outplay you, but you are wrong to say DS was used "outside it's original boundary" whatever that means. DS isn't explicitly anti-tunnel. The sooner you realize that the sooner you will stop hating on a perk that has easy counter play.
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204657#Comment_1204657
Did you really accuse me of playing like a bot for outplaying all 4 survivors? Talk about “killer biased” it’s hard to say the survivor biased is strong with your opinion.
Im sorry I didn’t wait to hear Hillbilly’s stopwatch go off to make sure it’s safe to pick up the survivor with everything else I have to be aware of at the moment.
Unbreakable on the other survivors? Yeah that’s what the perk is designed for. Had one of the other survivors gotten up due to Unbreakable then YES I would accept I got outplayed. However, what you’re suggesting is that I was outplayed by the survivor using DS as intended, when it was clearly a flaw in design of the perk itself.
Yes. Picking up the only survivor who could DS you is very much a bot move. You didn't even hesitate, you did it immediately which suggests that you didn't even put any thought into it. That is what a bot does, sorry if that hurts to hear but it's the truth.
You asked "What did I do wrong here?", then I and several others tell you EXACTLY what you did wrong (pick up the Jane instead of one of the other two survivors) yet you can't sit here and acknowledge your mistake? C'mon dude, like really? REALLY?!?
Doing your job would have been making the smart move to avoid DS. Doing your job does not mean assuming you won when you have every survivor slugged.
Unbreakable isn't even a factor here because you picked up the ONLY survivor who could DS you. Literally the only player who could DEFINITELY take away your win.
You messed up. Admit it. Stop trying to explain it away as "the game is broken and unfair" because it's not. YOU MESSED UP. Period.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204798#Comment_1204798
The difference is, victory HAD been achieved here. The Killer did not make a mistake by picking up a Survivor to end the game that he’d already won. The Survivor simply got to look him in the eyes after they’ve proven themselves to be unable to best him and said, “No.”
OMG
No victory had not been achieved. The only way you can confirm victory is when the results screen pops up.
The killer DID make a mistake by picking up the ONLY SURVIVOR WHO COULD TAKE AWAY THE WIN.
Killer did not already win if the survivors were not dead and one had DS active.
In all reality, the survivor was probably more like...
https://youtu.be/WiY9DDyQfUk?t=23... just replace the words "signing it" with "picking me up".
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204769#Comment_1204769
The difference is, in all the scenarios you described, the opponent you are facing went from almost losing to victory because they pulled their ######### together and pushed themselves to win. Their skill and their prowess at the game allowed them to gain a clawhold and, ultimately, being better than you at the game. It was a matter of mustering up the skill to outplay you.
DS is not a matter of skill. It is a matter of pressing a button. The Killer has proven themselves to be better than you by bringing you inches within loss, and you have done nothing to be better than them, yet despite that, you still get a second chance. DS is bringing a Perk and pushing the space bar when the time calls. There is no skill, no outplaying the person about to beat you. In all the above scenarios, winning when you’re about to lose is a matter of “I earned a second chance for myself by overcoming the obstacle presented before me using my own merits at the game.” Decisive, however, is a matter of “I get a completely free second chance because screw you, I said so.”
Huge difference there.
No all the examples are of a player assuming victory when victory has not actually been earned, then making a massive mistake and basically handing the win to the other side, who capitalized on that mistake to turn the game.
Downing survivors is not winning the game. KILLING survivors is winning the game. Downing a survivor is not the same as killing them.
All he had to do was go pick up someone else. JUST ADMIT THAT HE MADE A MISTAKE. You won't even though it's clear as day.
"NOED is not a matter of skill. It is a matter of waiting for the other side to finish their objectives."
See how this logic works? Literally the exact same arguments you use against DS can be used against NOED. But I'm sure you find some mental hoops to jump through to make it not the same.
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@AsePlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204713#Comment_1204713
Woah buckaroo, may want to stop there. You're starting to make TOO much sense.
IKR?
God forbid one's uses their brain around here.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204747#Comment_1204747
You have just openly admitted that doing his job as a Killer extremely well was a mistake on his part. Beating his opponents, being better at the game than them, was an error of his ways according to you.
And you call us the biased ones.
LOL "doing his job as killer" does not mean making a dumb mistake like this. "Doing his job as killer" would have been picking up another survivor. He didn't beat anyone until the game is over. Like they say I DID NOT HER THE FAT LADY. Assuming you won before the actual end game results screen pops up is the perfect example of a player with too much ego. Let's apply this logic to other games....
We had 2 outs and 2 strikes, bottom of the ninth, we should have won. It's unfair he hit a grand slam and got 4 more points to win the game.
I put you in check 10 times in a row and you never put me in check once, but I lost because you took my queen and put me into checkmate in the same move? UNFAIR!
Ryu had a pixel of health left, I had 100% health. The game is broken when he can do 3 mixups in a row that I could have easily countered and a few grabs to take my health down to 0.
I had 2 X's in a row and was about to get a third X for the win, but then he put an O and blocked me which set up for him to get 3 O's on his next move, and even though I could have put an X to block it I put it here to be tactical, I totally shouldn't have lost that game.
Like you really can't be serious with this? Unbelievable.
EDIT: PS. I could make the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT about NOED. Here it goes... NOED is unfair because it punishes survivors for doing their job and finishing gens. It's unfair and broken and the counter play is unreasonable.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204713#Comment_1204713
If you can’t admit DS was designed to be an anti-tunneling Perk but right now is far too available to use to be that, then yes, there is no discussion here.
”Anti-momentum” is just a euphemism for “Punishing the opponent for outplaying us too hard” and even someone like Almo would have enough of a brain to realize that’s godawful balancing. If that’s what BHVR intended DS to be, then they’re even less competent at making a video game than I thought.
Anti-momentum is exactly that. It's there to stop the other side from snowballing. Again the OP made a very clear and obvious mistake, yet none of you want to admit that. You'd rather point at a perk that has easy counter play and say "BROKEN".
The fact you defend this just proves how bias you are. You don't care about balance, you want free kills. Argue it all you want but that's the truth, especially when the OP could have VERY EASILY avoided DS by simply going to pick one of the other two downed survivors first. By the time he picks them up and hooks them, Jane's DS would be out and he could hook her too. That's a GG.
Of course killers can never make mistakes though right? It's always because the game is unfair and unbalanced that they lose right? Yep, never because the killer made a bad play, nope nope. DS is broken even though he could have picked up another survivor. He claims that he did that to get BBQ on the other two, but no I don't buy it. The other two were downed near the hook no less than 15 seconds ago. He could have EASILY found one of them and got the hook far away for BBQ on the other one.
HE MADE A MISTAKE. Just admit it. Stop denying it. Stop trying to paint the game's design as the problem. He messed up and paid for it. It's as simple as that.
Any time I get hit by DS it's either, 1) because I messed up and lost track of when the person was last hooked, or 2) because I knew they had DS and decided to eat it anyway because I could afford to. Know what I do if I can't afford to eat a DS? I SLUG THE SURVIVOR. Or go for a new target if the opportunity presents itself. Again this isn't rocket science. If you play like a bot you will get played like a bot. If you play with a little thought you can avoid DS very easily.
But go ahead, tell me how broken the perk is and explain to me what anti-tunneling is even though that's not actually what the perk is.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204678#Comment_1204678
DS was designed explicitly to be an anti-tunnel Perk and any scenario where it isn’t is an error in design that needs to be fixed.
DS is actually anti-momentum perk. So no it doesn't need to be fixed. OP made an obvious mistake if you can't admit that there is no discussion here.
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@Vampire said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204149#Comment_1204149
Its not tunneling if you get away, I down someone else, you're on a gen or waiting for unhook and then I down you.
60 seconds is a lot of time in this game
It actually kind of is tunneling. There are still 2 more survivors you know.
And if you caught someone else and find this person again SLUG THEM. It's not rocket science.
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Because survivor queue times aren't bad enough. SMH
You realize majority of killers will dodge when they see this icon, right? Just makes it easier to be a boosted killer that scums lobbies for 4 solo survivors.
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@Slival said:
The fact is that DS needs to deactivate if a survivor: works on a totem, works on a gem, heals someone (other than themselves), hides in a locker, or stuns the killer my any other means (pallet, flashlight, etc). DS is so you can get back on your feet and not just be tunnelled off the hook, not so you can be a ticking time bomb and force the killer to set a 60 second stopwatch on every unhook. Devs have commented their dissatisfaction with the locker interaction and with survs using DS as a type of invulnerability, so they know this and are waiting until they make other more pressing fixes (god loops) before changing it. Be patient.
@Exxodus21 said:
Well CLEARLY you tunneled the Jane, who was not at all taking advantage of DS to go for saves, by literally hooking or downing every literally every other survivor first.
@Claudette_Baguette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1204505#Comment_1204505
ANTI TUNNELING PERK BTW.
He literally hooked someone, got 2 downs and the 4th survivor still gets rewarded for having this perk thats SUPPOSED TO STOP TUNNELING? This is just not what the perks intention is and is just OP.
@elvangulley said:
If you down 2 other people you shouldn't get hit that bs skilless second chance perk you clearly didnt tunnel
Perfect examples of killer bias right here.
1) He made a very bot move immediately picking up the ONLY survivor to have been on a hook in the last 60 seconds.
2) DS is not explicitly an anti-tunnel perk, stop thinking like this and you won't get as mad at it.
3) Jane was NOT trying to take advantage of DS, she is actually trying to get away but she did a piss poor job of it.
4) DS does not need to deactivate for any dumb reason. It's 60 seconds, just wait. If you down the guy leave them on the ground. Slugging creates as much pressure as a hook, why do you think top killers slug so much? If they jump in a locker or do something to force you to grab them, again slug or just ignore them if you can't do that. If they are screwing around with a locker for 60 seconds they aren't doing gens.
I swear you people are so blind to the obvious. He made a bad play. PERIOD END OF STORY. Had he picked up one of the other 2 survivors that would have most likely been the end of the game right there. Even if Jane had Unbreakable, he would have had so much pressure she wouldn't likely have been able to save everyone. At least 1 person was dead right there, and 3 survivors on death hook with 5 gens = GG.
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Why would you pick up the Jane first??? Go hook the other two and then wait over Jane for a minute. You woulda won if you did that.
STOP PLAYING LIKE A BOT! STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT A PERK WHEN YOU GOT PUNISHED FOR YOUR OWN MISTAKES!!
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@lunaticlifter said:
@thesuicidefox i agree some of you points, it will be harder to aim with killers like nurse but especially huntress.. what i don't agree is the the aim accelleration.. you can control the sticks to do a fast spin, imagine like you want to break your stick... camera speed was atrocious and that was the real problem..mclean said with the current sens you could move like 420 degree per second, next patch will be 720 degree per second.. we gotta see anyway
420 degress per second is a full 360 and almost another quarter turn in a second. That is plenty fast. If you up aim acceleration, you would be able to reach that metric faster because you get to max speed sooner. I don't see what the problem is.
I have a friend that plays on PC with a controller and he basically confirmed exactly what I thought... that doubling your sensitivity doesn't actually help. He said the camera became uncontrollable. He already plays on 100 BTW and is at least top 10 for kills on Xbox (as in number of kills, he has like 13k). So he is a damn experienced killer and is a console player like me that has been playing with a controller most of his gaming life. I trust his judgement.
Increasing sensitivity will not help like you think it would. It just makes it harder to control. If we could increase aim acceleration you get all the benefits of higher sensitivity without the downsides. This can be proven by playing literally any FPS game where you have options for both sensitivity and aim acceleration. It's almost always more optimal to play a mid-high sensitivity (7/10) and a high aim acceleration than it is to play on just the highest sensitivity.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202900#Comment_1202900
Of course there are ways to counter that strat if you familiar with that . But the thing is that there are no downsides to killer when survivors counter that.
The difference being I could message survivors my Freddy build before the game starts and there is little to nothing they can actually do to beat it besides bringing a key and offering the best possible map (which like I said map is irrelevant to Freddy).
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202863#Comment_1202863
You better change Sloppy with something else cause your build already gives enough of slowdown that survivors are most likely to refuse to heal. Also they are likely to heal in groups and your sloppy will add only extra 5 seconds to that if im not wrong.
You can definitely replace Sloppy with something else, but that just means the build could be even better than currently is. And if survivors group up to heal, they aren't doing gens. Again they are slowed down no matter what they choose to do.
You really should just tell me your Billy build so we can discuss it. Besides the fact that NO ONE is really going to see what you write I seriously doubt it is so strong that it would need a nerf. I guarantee you there are ways to beat the build and you just haven't met a strong enough team to beat it yet.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202833#Comment_1202833
So far it doesnt seem so op to me. How long does it take for survivors to fall asleep automatically?
Look it's pretty obvious you don't play Freddy much if at all, and that you've never tried this build. Try it. You will see how ridiculously strong it is.
And it takes 60 seconds, but that is PASSIVE. Billy's slow down requires him to be ACTIVE and hit survivors with the chainsaw. Right there, objectively, Freddy's slow down mechanic is stronger than Billy's by the sheer nature of how it works. And Freddy can ACTIVELY slow them down as well by hitting them, and if he hits you with all these debuffs at once you are NOT going to be able to heal. It's just too much of a time sink, so he effectively has a one shot on you the rest of the game, unless you want to waste a lot of time healing and waking up.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202722#Comment_1202722
How much of penalty you get with those addons when the game starts?
And how would you counter survivors that keep themselves awake?
Hit a survivor once and it's a 9.7% repair debuff and 27.8% healing debuff to that survivor (this just for one survivor, it would go up for each survivor due to Thana and Swing Chains), and roughly a 6% repair debuff to all other survivors for that 1 survivor injured and asleep.
You don't need to counter survivors that keep themselves awake because any act of waking up is a time sink. Either they lose progress by failing skill checks (and alert you to their position), traverse to the other side of the map to use a clock, or wake up each other (which is only viable once before it becomes a massive waste of time). No matter what they are slowed down.
Not sure what you were planning to come back with but it seems like you never actually tried this build. Try it. It's massively oppressive. If I run this build survivors are lucky to get 2 gens before I get a 4k (with an easy pip and at least 25k points).
"Billy has insane map pressure with steer addons which Freddy lacks. Plenty of mindgames. Plenty of builds that works good on him. Thats why Freddy is simply not stronger."
Freddy has a variety of effective builds too. You say Billy has more map pressure yet Freddy can literally cross 6 tiles in about 2 seconds. Billy moves, at his fastest, moves at 12.42 m/s. To cross 6 tiles (16m x 6 = 96m) would take 7.7 seconds, which is more like 10 seconds when you factor in the time it takes to charge chainsaw. That is 5 times SLOWER than Freddy, so how you can say he has more map pressure doesn't make any sense. Also the map is literally irrelevant to Freddy, where Billy is going to have a harder time on certain maps for sure. Doing dream pallets with SF/Enduring is super effective. Also I don't see "many" effective builds on Billy. You have builds with Pop, builds with SF/Enduring, and slug builds. That's about it. Freddy actually has a lot more options when it comes to build variety.
Again you might be really good with Billy but that doesn't make him a stronger killer than Freddy from an objective point of view. Look at the stats even, Freddy has the highest kill rate at all ranks. That's pretty solid evidence that he is one of the strongest killers in the game. Then look at his game data and you can compare it to another killer, even in terms of just raw numbers Freddy is better. I don't understand how you can argue against this either, it's pretty clear Freddy is stronger than Billy in even possible comparison.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202659#Comment_1202659
It would be stupid to sound that build out loud and guide on how to use it right as it may get nerfed because there s little to nothing survivors can do to counter that if killer is hillbilly but if you see me in a game you welcome to see it. Nickname is Slayer.
If i get outplayed in jungle gym i dont m1 survivors if they didnt use exhaustion perks on me cause they most likely to have dead hard and probably resilence to gen rush even faster.
Anyway okay i know that Freddy is good but he has different ways to get an upper hand while Hillbilly has his owns. It doesnt make Freddy stronger.
Well I can't provide examples of a better Freddy build if you won't give out the build. I highly doubt it is as strong as you say it is, just because there are very few builds that would even match that and with Billy being an OG killer someone somewhere would have showed it off in a YT video or on stream already.
But I'll give it a whack anyway. Freddy with BBQ, Pop, Sloppy, Thana, Swing Chains, and Jump Rope. This build is ABSOLUTELY devastating. Like completely and utterly shuts down any progress survivors will have. I personally avoid using Sloppy when I can because Sloppy causes serious frame drops on Xbox (for survivors and I have feels for them being a survivor main), but if I wanted to be completely dominating this is the build I would use. I doubt Billy has anything that can compare. There are almost no counter play options here either. We'll Make It, Botany, Resil, medkits, toolboxes, all get overpowered by the massive debuffs from Thana, Sloppy, and Swing Chains/Jump Rope. Billy's only hope to compete with something like this is some kind of slug rush snowball build, but whatever that entails there would be hard counter options (healing buffs, aura reads, SWF in general, stealth perks, etc). Any even if such a build was as effective as this Freddy build, you won't rank up or gain BP from it, so it's still not going to be as good. Freddy can run this build and play super fair, easily walking out with a perfect 32k and 4 iri emblems. Billy will be lucky to safety pip with 15k BP. That means that whatever build you have for Billy is less sustainable in long term. I could reinvest my 64k and renew a blood web each game, and then some, replenishing my add-ons in the process. It would take you at least twice as many games, more like 3 times as many, to be able to replenish your add-ons.
"Anyway okay i know that Freddy is good but he has different ways to get an upper hand while Hillbilly has his owns. It doesnt make Freddy stronger."
It does though. That's what a tier list is. Again, your Billy build and your skill with Billy means you will probably 4k a lot. But if you have a strong build on Freddy and play with as much skill you will have objectively more success. In fact you could be less skilled with Freddy than Billy and still have equal or better results, which suggests Freddy is just a stronger killer. There is no comparison between the two.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202543#Comment_1202543
That was a very well written response.
Some killers can just immediately start using their power effectively (Spirit, Freddy, Billy) while some take time (Hag, Myers, Oni) and some people value killers that can immediately snowball but when Hag gets the ball rolling she is definitely at least on par with Billy or Freddy.
You really have to be good with where you place traps and herd survivors into them. Billy and Freddy can 4K easier and faster but it really doesn’t take as much effort as it would with Hag which is why I avoid them.
Hag can actually have the best map pressure in the entire game with Mint Rag as you immediately teleport to whatever trap you’re looking at and it takes a shorter amount of time than it would for Freddy to teleport to a gen. I have never lost a Hag game with Mint Rag, it’s super strong.
I agree mostly with your tier list but I don’t believe Oni or Plague are weaker than Myers nor is Ghostface an entire tier above Myers.
Unpopular opinion but I believe Deathslinger is better than Huntress. He has instant ADS so he is basically a Huntress with a fully wound up hatchet and semi-stealth especially with M&A. It doesn’t matter that he can’t down over pallets when instantly shoot and the survivors are bobbing and weaving when they shouldn’t. The threat of the gun alone is enough to close distance a lot of the time.
Huntress can snowball much easier and has more generous hitboxes but I believe Deathslinger has more going for him than Huntress does.
But tier lists always have varying opinions.
I don't disagree with your Hag assessment there, again she is a strong killer. Just definitely not stronger than anyone I put above her. That's what people really need to understand about what a true tier list is. Hag is very very strong. But Freddy and Billy are measurably stronger. Billy has more snowball potential than Hag and it requires far less set up. Freddy isn't a snowballing killer, but he has very very high map pressure and chase potential, much more than Hag. Of course, you can up Hag's pressure with Mint Rag, but then I can up Freddy's pressure with Paint Brush and Swing Chains. Hag is very dependent on survivors coming to her. Freddy can play offensively or defensively, and he doesn't require any setup. All 3 killers can consistently 4k at high ranks, but of the 3 Freddy is just more effective and requires the least amount of effort to play at that level.
@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202607#Comment_1202607
If Billy is forced to m1 then he is getting outplayed simple as that or just doing bad. Not that build. There s really not much counter to that build if killer is hillbilly.
Shares dont work if survivors are not asleep.
Eh, you can force Billy to m1 on any jungle gym tile if you path right. The best he can hope for is that the loop gets cut short and he gets a quick pallet break. Freddy can counter any loop with snares and your pathing is kind of irrelevant. He can also cut the loop shorter than Billy and more consistently with less effort.
Sorry I just don't see Billy as being nearly as strong as Freddy. Freddy has clear advantages over Billy and less counter play options.
I'm also curious to hear this build you keep mentioning, because I can guarantee that Freddy would be stronger with just BBQ, Pop, and Jump Rope. Those 3 items alone put Freddy above almost the entire killer cast regardless of what builds they run.
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@nursewannabe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202543#Comment_1202543
Doctor B rank? Please.
Rest is overall agreeable.
I think this was before the Doc update, or maybe just after. I would probably rank him higher now, though he would still be B tier.
Remember a tier list is a ranking of characters based on comparable potential strength. Putting a killer in B tier does not mean they are weak, it means they are weaker than the characters above them. And the difference between one tier and the next suggests a distinct gap in potential strength, while the difference within a tier suggests a minor but still measurable gap in potential strength. So Ghostface is clearly superior to Myers despite them effectively being ranked one after the other, but then Billy is only slightly better than Huntress as they are within the same tier. Myers does not have the same potential as Ghostface, but Huntress DOES have the same potential as Billy, just Billy is still measurably superior.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1202488#Comment_1202488
Naked Freddy is stronger than default Billy for sure. But if we compare best Hillbilly addons vs best Freddy addons then i d say you can t really compare them as there are perks builds that would suit Hillbilly more and Freddy less and so on. They good in different areas. Cant be compared.
You don't really need a "build" for Freddy to compete with Billy though. Give him BBQ and Pop and Freddy will have way more map pressure than Billy ever could. Snares by default are a stronger chase tool than chainsaw. If you loop well, you can avoid the chainsaw on most tiles and force Billy to m1. You can't avoid snares, and they will work on every single tile in the game. So in a situation where Billy is forced to m1, Freddy will win at those loops much much sooner than Billy. And if we factor in add-ons, again Billy's slow down add-ons require him to chainsaw you and have a limited time frame of effect. Freddy's are passive, require no input on his end (and if he provides input he just increases the slow down even more), and are indefinite until the survivor wakes up (which this act itself is a slow down mechanic built into his kit).
So Freddy doesn't need a build to be super effective. He needs 2 perks, and maybe 1 add-on to be roughly equal with a fully loaded Billy.
Also if the build you are talking about for Billy includes Infectious, just remember that Calm Spirit hard counters Infectious. I use this perk all the time and Infectious means nothing to me. You can tell that it works too because killers that rely on Infectious to find survivors have a very difficult time finding and tracking me. While it also works against Freddy for tracking, it doesn't stop snares from working. And if you are asleep you glow in the dark, which has no counter and makes you extremely visible.
Anything Billy can do, Freddy can do better. The only thing Billy has over Freddy is snowball potential, but that requires some luck and/or mistakes on survivor side to really capitalize. Freddy can easily win without needing to snowball.
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@MegMain98 said:
@thesuicidefox @Swiftblade131 Are we sleeping on how good Hag is? I guess it would be a personal bias for me but when played well I believe Hag is better than BOTH Freddy and Billy.
Hag is a good killer if you learn how to use her properly, but sorry she's not even close to Freddy or Billy.
Hag has HARD counters. Flashlights and Urban Evasion pretty much nullify her power completely. She is also 110, meaning she can't chase as effectively unless she places traps during the chase or before the chase.
Billy is 115 with a one shot. His snowball potential alone puts him way above Hag. Hag has a better defense when it comes to gen or hook protection (camping), but Billy is very close to this strength. Trying to make a save against either killer is very difficult if they decide to camp. Billy also has higher mobility and he isn't required to have already been to a place to get there quickly.
Freddy has even higher mobility than Billy, and his power hos no real hard counters. The best you can do is stuff like Resil, Botany, etc. to counter the passive slowdown from his add-ons. Snares have exactly 0 counters, you can know they are there and it won't matter. You either take a long path to avoid it, or eat it and slow down, either way you get hit. And he can spam them without penalty. The closest counter to snares is Calm Spirit because you don't scream he can't use it as a tracking tool against you, but it will still work in a chase. He can also camp very effectively because Dream World is an automatic anti-BT. If he camps it can be very difficult to get a safe rescue because of this. And due to his teleport, he has as much long range camping potential as Hag.
Hag is pretty easy to bully as a 4 man SWF. She relies on you being overly-altruistic to actually be lethal, but if you have good communication you can break her setups pretty well. The moment she picks up a survivor to hook, you trigger every trap you can. That alone makes it very difficult to play against SWF as Hag. Billy and Freddy, especially Freddy, are far less affected by SWF shenanigans like this.
Like, case and point, since new Freddy came out I had exactly 1 team 4e me, and it was Ward where I had really bad RNG and played very poorly. I think I even had a different build that wasn't very strong. Every other game is a 3k/hatch or 4k. Maybe 1 other team got 2e on me, but 95% of my games the survivors never make it to gates. He is insanely strong, and it's to a point where I don't enjoy playing him because it doesn't feel very rewarding TBH. Hence why I just stick to Spirit and Ghostface because it's more fun and challenging (even though I consider Spirit a stronger killer, she takes more skill to be stronger so that's why I enjoy her more).
Here is a tier list I made a few months ago that outlines where I think each killer is. S tier killers are hands down the strongest, A tier killers are very strong but have weaknesses that can be exploited or take a lot of skill, B tier are good but have weaknesses that are hard to overcome, C tier can be lethal with the right builds and a good amount of skill but it will be an uphill battle, and D tier have glaring weaknesses that are easy to exploit. This was before Deathslinger, if I were to place him I would probably put him right after Oni, since he has high chase potential and semi-stealth but suffers heavily in map pressure.
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@Reborn2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200827#Comment_1200827
No. Every killer can be lethal with right buid. I for one main billy and there s a build that basically guarantees you 4 kills 3 kills at the best. Billy has slow down addons as well.
I won't disagree that every killer is strong with the right build, but at base OBJECTIVELY Freddy is definitely stronger than Billy. He has more tools and more potential to be stronger. It's not that I'm saying Billy is weak, I'm saying Freddy is just stronger than Billy. You can easily see this if you play them naked with no perks/add-ons. Freddy will still crush most good survivors where Billy will struggle with better survivors. Freddy just has way more potential in his kit and takes far less effort to get to that maximum potential than Billy. To be super oppressive as a naked Billy, you have to be a good Billy. To be super oppressive as a naked Freddy, you only have to be a decent Freddy.
Also Billy's slow down add-ons don't even compare to Freddy's. Begrimed Chains slows down survivors by 9% for 120 seconds, and requires you to find and hit the survivor with a chainsaw. Considering that upon doing this you will get a hook, practically you are only getting that debuff for 60-90s at best. Freddy has several add-ons that apply a debuff and require 0 input on his part. The survivor just falls asleep naturally, or by being hit. And it's indefinite until the survivor wakes up (which itself is a game slowing mechanic). With Jump Rope and Swing Chains Freddy gets up to a 12% debuff AND up to an 8% debuff on awake survivors. He doesn't need to do anything to get those debuffs, but if he does find and hit you he just applies the debuff sooner rather than later. Billy's add-ons cannot compete with that kind of passive slow down. Freddy also has Paint Brush which can start survivors asleep and keep them asleep longer, making the debuff semi-permanent for the entirety of the game.
Billy is just not as strong as Freddy. You really can't argue this.
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@Almo said:
I just verified in the editor that...
Alex's Toolbox...
Does...
3 hooks. Bug entered, we'll look at it, and make sure all of the boxes work properly. :) What was throwing me off was that Alex's is the only one with an exact amount of hooks. But your example with the addon is probably related.
Before the toolbox update there was a bug with charge add-ons not actually giving charges (for repair, not sure about sabo). It's since been fixed (I forget if it was before the toolbox changes or after), but it could be related maybe?
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Marry Huntress. We get a cabin in the woods and live a nice secluded and peaceful life. Good hunter, so we never have to worry about food. Plus she can definitely haul logs for the fireplace.
Kiss Spirit *blushes*
Kill Doc. Hate that bastard.
Marry Jane. She has a stable job and would be the bread winner so I could be a stay at home dad. Has good child bearing hips. Plus there's gotta be perks to being a celebrity's husband.
Kiss Kate *blushes more*
Kill Jeff. Because it's metal.
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@Swiftblade131 said:
And yet, he's maybe 4th or 5th best depending on who you ask
For me, he is an easy 4th
Nurse
Spirit
Billy
Freddy
Freddy is stronger than Billy for sure.
Freddy: super high map pressure (teleport), very high chase potential (snares), semi-stealth (invisible when awake, Oblivious when asleep), and high slow down potential with add-ons.
Billy: one shot, high map pressure, high snowball potential.
Freddy is objectively better. Lead Billy to a strong loop and he's basically an m1 killer with a fast pallet break. Freddy can outright negate every loop in the game by spamming snares.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1200767#Comment_1200767
peo are saying it because it’s true lol I’m sorry to burst your bubble but legion is low D tier probably the second worst in the game
No they're saying it because they are playing the killer wrong or flat out a bad killer. He is not that weak.
PS. I'm not saying he is amazingly strong or that he doesn't need some changes (specifically a few add-ons like FMT need a rework), but it's just ridiculous how emo Legion mains get about wanting buffs.
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As an old Freddy player, I kind of agree. New Freddy has a lot going for him. They need to make it easier to wake up and remove the oblivious effect from Dream World. He gets a free anti-BT and it's dumb, plus you can't use any perks that require TR to take effect, which is the same as before (just reversed).
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy Freddy went from the absolute worst killer to one of the best, but he does kind of have too much in his base kit. Even if the oblivious effect was an add-on that would be fine.
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"I don't know why my sound capture doubles."
Uh... it's because you have 2 ears. Duh?
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OMG can people stop complaining about Legion? They are NOT that weak. Solid mid tier. Clown, Wraith, and Bubba are all clearly inferior.
It's seriously irritating at this point.
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Next time you think it's that killer do this:
-Pick Blendette.
-Equip Dull/Skeleton Key.
-Equip Calm Spirit, Distortion, Spine Chill, and Self Care
-Offer fog, corn, or swamp
-Hide all game. Stay as far from the killer as possible. Don't touch a gen, don't save any survivors. Just hide.
-If you find yourself in a hatch EGC situation, hatch out.
-Say GG EZ in post game chat.
That's how you deal with a-holes like this.
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LOL you can't be held hostage with a teabag. Or a flashlight click. Or literally anything a survivor can do other that all 4 just hide all game.
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Corrupt Intervention is probably the best. Huntress doesn't need to put in any effort for it to do it's job and it effectively shrinks the map which is something she needs.
New Ruin is also pretty decent, but it's a big risk being a totem. If it can last to even mid-game it can prove incredibly strong as she can force survivors off gens at a distance.
Some people would say Pop, which is good yes, but Huntress doesn't really have time to spare kicking gens being as slow as she is.
Thana could help too if you use Mangled add-ons, or are just really good at keeping survivors injured.
As a former Huntress main, it's really tough right now for her. The Ruin change really hurt her the most because she's the only killer that really needed it.
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Bikini outfits for
Spirit, Plague, Kate, Jane, Yui, Zarina, and MyersEVERYONE are 100% necessary and you can't argue against it. -
@Almo I tested with Toolbox + Scraps, I was able to sabo 4 hooks with some left over. I guess I either miscounted or maybe did part of a sabo and didn't finish.
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@Ruckpie said:
I actually saw a whole YouTube video about it. https://youtu.be/dO_H2mGa1TA
LOL this guy is an awful killer. No wonder he complains about DS like this.
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@Brucecastro81 said:
Didn't know about that. We can't say its bad before testing it tho
I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying adding aim acceleration options would be better. And I don't need to test this in DBD because these options exist in many other games, so you can easily get an idea of how it would impact your game by messing with sensitivity and aim acceleration in other games.
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@FabsRinas said:
I do agree with your points, but higher overall sens will help counter 360s, and that's the best we have so far.
I mean you can counter 360's with the current sensitivity just fine. I play on 100 and don't have trouble spinning my camera fast enough to hit a 360. Plus high aim acceleration would be a better option still because you get to max turn speed faster, which means you can track them better when they use quick movements like 360.
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@Almo said:
I just did Toolbox with Scraps, and saboed 4 hooks. I'm not sure what's going on at your end.
I'll try it again. Maybe I miscounted. I'll post back here afterwards.
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@Almo said:
I just checked Worn Out Tools, Toolbox, and Commodious Toolbox. I get 3 sec for WOT, 2.78 for T, and 3.05 for CT. These are all within a frame what I expect. This is using our debug tool that measures and outputs the interaction time.
There is, however, a 0.2 second snap-to-the-spot time before the sabo starts.
It looks like everything is working properly.
Okay but what about charges? Because if a hook sabo takes 6 charges I should be able to do 4 when using Toolbox with Scraps, yet I was only able to do 3. Is it because of that 0.2s startup? Are charges being used despite not being applied to the sabo?
Also is there a reason each toolbox applies charges at different rates? Why not make it a flat 3s for all toolboxes (especially when they are all so close)?
I'm just a little confused is all. I wouldn't have expected inconsistencies like this.
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Laughs in Xbox party chat
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I haven't played RE, and I honestly don't intend to, but judging from gameplay I've seen it looks very gimmicky. In the same way that Last Year and F13 look gimmicky. Basically it doesn't look very skill based and all the gameplay is superficial and one dimensional.
The thing with DBD is that whether you want to admit it or not, the game takes a lot of skill. It's also very dynamic in that the RNG and sheer variety of perk combinations (with killer powers on killer side) adds a lot of variety. Sure the game ultimately boils down to looping and time management, but there's a lot of ways things can go (aside from certain god loops which have no dynamic gameplay which is why people don't like them). Like depending on the killer and the tile, some pallets are safer than others. Most killers have means to win at any non-god loop, even jungle gyms. The ones that don't still have the option to do something like SF/Enduring, Bambo, or Brutal.
And as for objectives, yea survivors doing gens in itself is kind of one dimensional, but then when you factor in gen placement and killer perks things change. The act of doing a single gen is just hold m1 and press space bar once in a while, so the dynamic part of gens has to do with knowing which gens to do first, and (as killer) knowing which gens to protect. A game where the killer has Pop and Thana is going to play out much different tactically on both sides than the same killer using Corrupt and Ruin. It might not feel like it because again the act of doing a single gen is one dimensional, but it is different.
Long story short, DBD doesn't have gimmicks to bolster gameplay. There's nothing to cover up the core mechanics, just add to them and change them on a match by match basis. I don't get that feeling watching RE. It looks like a lot of gameplay is just mean to be fun and not very skillful. That's not to say there's no skill in the game, because ultimately every game requires some degree of skill, especially as you climb higher in the meta. More that, RE's skill is mainly superficial, while DBD's is very deeply ingrained into everything. RE games look like they will play the same almost no matter what you do. DBD every game is different (though it may feel the same but that's more to do with balance than mechanics).
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1195380#Comment_1195380
Will check into it, thanks!
Cool thanks. I'm on Xbox BTW if that matters.
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@Almo said:
Use this as your base. Default charges/s is 2. Hooks have 6 charges. Worn out tools should be 3 seconds as it has no bonus for sabotage speed.
The thing is the numbers don't work out. Yellow Toolbox with Scraps is 28 charges, but I was only able to sabo 3 hooks. If a hook requires 6 charges I should have been able to do 4.
Also the sabo time is 2.5 seconds when using a toolbox without speed bonuses OR Saboteur.
Something isn't working right here. You guys may want to look in this because it may be a bug.
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@Marcus said:
Just make it so you can only use Moris after you hook all 4 survivors once and that should make them balanced.
The only problem with this is DC's. Unless they make DC's count as a hook, you can get screwed out of your offering. Alternatively, as survivors you can just have 1 player hide all game to avoid the mori. It makes more sense to just have the requirement be that the survivor is on death hook for you to mori, since there is no way you can cheese that.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1194603#Comment_1194603
Yeah but I think particularly because that can happen is why there should be more ways to escape. This is why I think the key is a mechanic that can’t be compared to a Mori. Mori’s are just blatantly cheating at your objectives. Whereas a key is offering an alternate way of escaping. A lot of The maps aren’t even that big and killers have too high mobility making 3 gen a realistic possibility a lot of the time. It’s not fair to ever leave someone without a chance because gen speed isn’t fast enough to get one done before the killer comes back. I honestly don’t think the maps are that big and the hiding consists of jagged rocks, skinny trees and knee high crates. Rigged in killers favor.
They are 100% comparable. Both let you subvert the mechanics of the game.
Again if you find yourself in a 3 gen situation with little to no chance of finishing the last gen that's your fault as survivor.
Not to mention hatch is still an option, just some more survivors have to die before it becomes an option.
I have 3k hours, I play both sides but mostly survivor in a SWF. Keys are indeed unfair, just as mori's.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
I don’t think a key is cheating particularly because it gets to a point where it’s unfair for survivors to do that last gen. It’s Simply not doable . They need the key to give them an alternate way of escaping. But if you think about it, survival games have always had multiple ways of escaping. So there’s nothing wrong with having a key. Killers got it easier in this game than they do in most other games in my opinion.
99% of the time, if you are in a 3 gen as survivors it's your own fault. It's very easy to avoid if you pay attention to what gens are being done. In fact all you really have to do is just rush the gens in the middle of the map. If you split the map you basically won as survivor.