sharpef3rn
sharpef3rn
About
- Username
- sharpef3rn
- Joined
- Visits
- 116
- Last Active
Comments
-
But shouldnt the prevented scream make harden give you 5 seconds of aur reading
-
The fact that survivors cannot surrender is the issue. If the slugged survivor was able to give up accepting death instead of being left on the floor I would see no issue with this. I understand the 4th survivor wanting to have a chance at hatch because its their chance to redeem their own game. I don't really understand the need for a 4th kill outside of achievement but lets say they just want it, its fine. Both of them have options to end the game quicker or try for more of a win from their perspective. But lets take a look at the slug. They are stuck in the game for 4 minutes with no way out. If BHVR gave them the option to DC without penalty I really wouldn't have an issue with this.
Most of the behavior that people consider toxic or problematic with DBD is trying to win at the expense of someone elses game/time. Camping/Tunnelling single out a single person and stops them from being able to play. Slugging for the 4k. Max combo gen rushing. Head-on Vigil 4 man combo. The reason all of these suck isnt because they are the most effective way to win necessarily, they suck because at least one person is placed in a scenario where the game isnt playable in an enjoyable way.
BHVR mentions they don't want the game to be too competitive but leaving in this pain point leads to exactly that. Give the slug a chance to play a new game without penalty and I see this problem as being null, the 4th survivor can out hide the killer and the killer can hunt for the 4th survivor noone is trapped. Heck just remove the DC penalty after a certain period of time in the match, ie after 7 minutes in addition to "leave match" have a button called "surrender to the entity" still get replaced with a bot but dont be stuck in an unenjoyable game.
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690003#Comment_3690003
if you reread what I typed you’ll see I do understand that and it’s literally what I already said.
So this is easiest explained with BBQ and No where to hide. Both give an amount of information and what they do with that information is up to the killer. The issue is No Where to Hide, doesnt give the same information. BBQ same map, same hook, same survivor positions and perks the killer will see the same thing and can act accordingly. But with No Where to hide, same map same gen survivor positions and perks faster killers see a bigger range, up to twice as much space covered as slower killers. The perk is showing more to those killers which is very different that killers being able to utilize the same benefit information better.
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688364#Comment_3688364
It does do more for Blight since he's able to get there faster and capitalize on the aura reading more than most others.
I'm All Ears does do more for PH because he's able to capitalize on the aura reading with his secondary.
ALL of these examples are making my point.
"More" is based on the outcome. IE getting more value out of running it.
There's no difference better because I can aim my attack easier and better because I move faster. You're trying to make a distinction between these when there's not. The mechanism of the value is irrelevant if the outcome is the same.
Do you not understand that No where to hide provides different information for the killer based on their speed compared to other killers making the perk stronger. Like with Thano if the suvivors heal they dont lose the percentage. They are less likely to heal against plague so its a synergy. A do more is when the perk literally provides something extra. Like if Doctor instead increased madness whenever a survivor screamed perks like infectious and other screaming perks would do more for the doctor.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688339#Comment_3688339
I did not try to imply that and I very much agree that it's obvious the devs don't always sufficiently consider how perks interact with different things in this game.
Starstruck Nurse is a good example of that. As Boil Over in the RPD library. Or MfT against pretty much every M1 killer. Of course it can always happen that you overlook something in a game with as much content as DBD but if it takes the players only 10 seconds to think of potential issues, then the devs should see them too and be ready to make the needed changes.
Yeah I think we are on the same page. I am not thinking that devs purposefully design perks to have these advantages on higher tier killers but do think that if they are going to have something based on positioning it should be intentionally done in a way that would benefit lower tier killers more. Imagine if instead of 5 seconds of 24 m aura reading it was 24 m of aura reading until you were >10m from the gen. Non mobile killers will get the power longer and might use it to scour the area better and mobile killers have that option too but generally wont due to their playstyle. Like I feel it wouldnt be a buff or a nerf but a change that nerfs the perk for high mobility killers while buffing it for the lower ones which is honestly who would need it more.
-
@Raptorrotas said:
PErks are better on better characters, who wouldve thought?
Just buff the other killers on par with the top 10?
It works for the survivor discurse on buffing survivor so bad players can keep up with good players on comms. Making all killers perform similar so the perks would have the same performance on all of them would seem fair, right?
Its funny how nerfing comes only up in killer balance discussions. Making perks worse wont help worse killers lol.
Did you read what I wrote? Because I've stated the distinction that I have with between synergy and design flaw. Like there are a lot of perks that work better on various killers and thats fine its when a perk literally does more for a killer that there is an issue. Blight, nurse and wesker gain more information from No Where to Hide than other killers. Its not that they can utilize the information better they literally get more information. That is problematic. If the perk was placed instead on the gen it might need a slight buff in distance to maintain the same level of effectiveness but shouldn't give a larger area of aura reading to a character with a dash or teleport.
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688334#Comment_3688334
"They are two very different things."
They are not. What you just described is the perks being better on them because they do more. Those are the same things. "Do more" and "better" are synonymous. Can't you give me an example of a perk that's better on a killer that doesn't do more?
I mean BBQ doesnt do anything more for Blight but if thats not to your liking.
I'm all ears. Better on Pyramid head because he can aim better but does the same thing regardless.
Iron Maiden on Bubba, Still exposed still scream but people go into lockers more against bubba to avoid the chainsaw. Same Iron Maiden with doctor.
Discordance with artist. Thano with Plague. STBFL with Demo. Coup with m1 killers.
Darkness revealed on Nurse, huntress or trickster.
All of these have the same effect, nothing changes with effect, but because playstyle is different they are stronger. The information condition or action you get from these perks are the same regardless of killer. But because No where to hide a time based info perk based on the killers position a killer that moves faster does not get the same benefit as a killer that moves slower. If it was based on the Gen it would still be better on killers that can reach or attack that location quicker but it wouldnt do more for some killers than it does for others.
If I am being honest I would also state the issue with Iron Maiden effecting Huntress and Tricksters reload speed but because its less problematic its less of an issue. In addition they did partially address that a few patches ago by reducing their reload speed to make them less reliant on those perks. Plus gave huntress more hatchets because… no one really knows why.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688301#Comment_3688301
Thank you. I did not think of that in this context. That's a fair point honestly.
Though, I'd say it's somewhat similar to what I wrote about UW. I'm genuinely not sure, if this is even a good thing. In my opinion Nowhere to Hide would be completely fine, if it took the gen and not the killer's position as a reference. Maybe the range could be increased slightly, if it ends up as a big nerf.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688308#Comment_3688308
The main reason, I believe you got it backwards is that this would imply that the devs intentionally design perks that way. But that's probably not the case. It's more likely that the biggest strengths different killers have, happen to synergise well with certain perks. In Pop's case, I can only say that I think it's a very healthy design philosophy. It rewards the killer for playing well and it encourages them to leave the hook. And once they get to that other gen, they might as well go for another chase, which is where Nowhere to Hide comes in.
To be 100% honest I don't think that the devs meant for it to move with the killer or though of its interactions with blight and nurse. The spirit of the perk is pretty clear in that its to show survivors who hid near a gen you just kicked. I think it was a lack of foresight which is something I think should be looked into when making perks. Is this perk going to have a very strong interaction with a killers power, if so will that be a problem? (Cough cough nurse's starstruck)
-
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688286#Comment_3688286
"And for the record I am not talking about perks being better on some
killers. I am talking about perks that DO more for some killers"That's synonymous. They are better on them , because they do more.
"TBF with STBFL it should have gotten the nerf when the adjusted the base attack cd was reduced. "
I don't think it actually needed that nerf. It wasn't an overpowered perk. However, if they had just lowered the % some to compensate for that the perk wouldn't have been destroyed and would still be decent. The change they did though, destroyed the perk for many killers.
No where to hide showing auras in a space 2x as big for Blight as Trapper is the perk doing more for a killer.
Blight being able to reach a survivor they see with BBQ faster than trapper could is a perk being better for a killer.
They are two very different things.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688233#Comment_3688233
Pop got buffed to 60 seconds so that weaker killers could more easily use the perk. It got nerfed to 45 seconds. this nerfed weaker killer from using the perk outside of 3 gens without affecting high mobility killers to use the perk.
Ultimate weapon is getting same treatment. the duration being lowered from 30 →15 seconds but this will only affect weaker killers with low traversal but will not affect stronger killers. I don't think it is going to be huge drastic nerf like pop was but i dislike how perk is losing scream property which is removing option for killer to counter distortion.
Did they announce that was the change they were doing to ultimate weapon? I wouldn't be surprised but I would be disappointed. They literally have a swap that would make two perks both decently viable. Remove the hook condition of Thwack and give it a 30 second cooldown and remove the cooldown from Ultimate weapon and place on the hook condition. It would make it better but still have the issue that NWTH has where it actively is better for highly mobile killers.
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688283#Comment_3688283
The problem with Pop is not so much that you won't reach the gen before the duration ends. At most it takes 25 seconds to traverse the map and get to that specific gen. However, the gen could very well be finished before you make it there. That's where weaker killers usually struggle and it's why it's so important to keep chases short.
With UW I agree but again, this is less an issue with the perk and more with killer design. If more killers had good mobility, then this wouldn't be as much of an issue. Mobility is one of the things that heavily impact how good or bad a killer is. Have you ever seen a killer that good map mobility but was still horribly weak? Or have we ever had a killer that had neither a good chase power nor good mobility but was still good (besides SM, who was only that good because of specific perks and addons)?
Especially that part about Distortion rubs me the wrong way. I am of the opinion that right now Distortion is not a healthy perk. It counters a good variety of killer meta perks (even when combined, which is kind of crazy) and it takes little to keep the effect up all game. So the payoff is a bit too high for how little you actually have to do (few exceptions) and it also means, that someone else will die early because if the killer can't find you, they can't go for you, which means, that someone else will take your chases and hooks. What happens now if the killer doesn't go out of their way not to tunnel? Someone is likely going to die at 4 or 5 hooks.
I agree. Pop time limit only happens when you prioritize other gens or chases not because you couldnt reach the correct gen.
I also agree kinda with the distortion. My issue with distortion is 2-fold. One is it gives information to possibly all the survivors about the killers perks. And 2nd is that it regains its charges at the wrong time. It should be while in chase you gain back charges as opposed to when in the terror radius out of chase. IE you spent time in danger you get a reprieve rather than just hiding keeps you perma safe. Personally I think Distortion should be changed to while crouched your aura isnt shown. And then buff technician and bite the bullet to block auras while doing gens and healing respectively. It removes the extra information about the killers perks, buffs two underutilized perks in minor ways and overall would be a healthier setup while still offering some level of protection. Its also SO DUMB that distortion also hides your scratch marks changing Im all ears to actually be a survivor perk. (Calm spirit cries in the corner because of the horrid nerf it got when they "tried to make it better")
-
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688278#Comment_3688278
Could you explain what you mean with Blight getting 2x the value of Trapper? I don't follow.
The issue with CoB + OC was not Eruption. Eruption was nerfed in patch 6.6.0. CoB and Overcharge were nerfed in 6.7.0. There was a month and 2 weeks in between these patches. So they were not caught in the crossfire. The reason was that with these 2 perks, killers didn't need to end chases, which meant they could simply patrol gens, kick them and repeat with taking the free hit / down on ocassion. That was enough to drag the game out for 60 minutes, if you held a good 3gen. That was back when especially Skull Merchant and Knight were notorious for holding the game hostage. But this was possible on petty much any killer with mobility or good map pressure / territorial powers.
Okay so Blight and Trapper do the same action kick a gen. They both have 5 seconds of seeing auras. Because its centered on the killer and not gen if no auras are seen initially blight can rush at 2x the speed maintaining these wall hacks the entire time centered on him. So by covering 2x the distance as Trapper in this time he gets 2x the information. Compare this to BBQ where its still better on blight because he can get there faster but they get the same info. Or I'm all ears its the same info for any killer but some powers can utilize it better. I am basically trying to convey that I have no issue with synergy with powers, but perks and powers should help utilize them better not make the other one stronger by its nature.
-
@Blueberry said:
it’s very hard to make perks that aren’t just better on the better killers. Oddly enough we actually did have one very good perk that was better on the worse killers (stbfl)..but it got nerfed..for some reason. That was one of the healthier perks helping bad killers.
TBF with STBFL it should have gotten the nerf when the adjusted the base attack cd was reduced.
And for the record I am not talking about perks being better on some killers. I am talking about perks that DO more for some killers. BBQ and chili is better on Blight than on Trapper but provides the same benefit, seeing people 40+ m from the hook. Blight can get there faster its better for Blight. Iron Maiden provides the same benefits for huntress as hag but its better on huntress because she opens more lockers. These I see as fine. But No where to hide shows Blight more information than the Trapper. Thats the distinction I am trying to make with this. It does more for the killer than what the killers power alone does.
-
@crogers271 said:
Broadly, stronger killers are going to benefit from perks regardless of what they are.
On the idea of linking perks to the area they activate - I wouldn't really have any problem with that. It would be a pretty big nerf to many killers and perks, but it would make then more easy to balance.
@Ohyakno said:
Nerfing the perks makes them better on some killers? That's an interesting take.
It literally doesnt have to be a nerf but a change to stop giving perks added bonus to killers with mobility who are generally the strongest in the game. For example lets take No Where to Hide, if we adjusted it from 24m to 30m (which I dont think would be necessary but youre bringing up it being a nerf so okay) but made it centered on the gen instead of moving with the killer. For killers without added mobility it would be a buff because it essentially adds around 58% more area of coverage for the 5 seconds. But a killer that has mobility it would be a nerf because someone like blight cant just immediately rush and see all surviviors on the map. Because the spirit of the perk is to see the survivors near the generator to chase them off it. Or my preferred method where it lasts while you are close to the gen could allow killers to maintain the aura read longer than the 5 seconds at the cost of them staying close to the gen. This change would essentially benefit killers who need the perk more. Making information perks tied to a killers non static location for a period of time are designed in such a way that they provide more benefit to the killers with the largest map presence, which also corresponds with the strongest killers.
@Xernoton said:
You've got it backwards. It's not that strong perks are designed to be better on strong killers but that strong killers usually have the tools to synergise well with meta perks.
Take Pop and Nowhere To Hide for example. Both are often used in combination on exactly the gens that survivors work on. But to even get to that gen before it's finished you need to activate Pop quickly, so you need fast chases and reach the gen shortly after, which means you'll need mobility. Good case powers + good mobility usually is enough to make a killer good.
We had a time when weaker killers were able to use meta perks just as well as stronger killers but to be honest, that was miserable. CoB + OC worked but it wasn't a healthy combination, simply because it had no special conditions. If they were to bring back this combination now, you'd need to pair it with Nowhere To Hide and it would probably be horrible for solo queue players because they are mostly not coordinated enough to make the killer waste their regression events on all gens but pretty useless against a good SWF because they would simply bait out the 8 kicks and then push through with no trouble. Keep in mind, if you can get back on thag gen immediately, the regression is almost non existent.
So redesigning meta perks will not work. Instead we need to focus on the killers that struggle and change them accordingly. Killers need at least 1) a good chase power or 2) good mobility (often both because otherwise you need to compensate for the lack of one by doubling down on the other). Many killers have a few extra things in their kit but there is no way around these 2.
No where to hide vs pop is actually a really good example. Because Pop's condition can't reach literally any gen from any hook based on the time constraint and the only part that benefits the high mobility killers more is whether they would be able to kick the gen before it gets done which is a benefit the killer has with or without the perk. Where as No Where to Hide can show a Blight 2x as much info as a Trapper for the same action making it significantly stronger on Blight.
Meanwhile the Call of Brine/Overcharge issue was literally just an issue with eruption and they got murdered in the crossfire. If they would have adjusted eruption without destroying COB and Overcharge they would have remained as viable perk alternatives without being the oppressive powerhouses they were in combination with eruption.
-
@Feneroe said:
Base kit regression would mean it'd be actually completely useless against skilled survivors. They'd have the debuff gone before the Unknown would even be able to do a second shot. Practice looking back while running and you'll do fine.
Wouldnt it be the opposite? If skilled survivors have 0 issues with this, and its a much much slower regression I dont see how it would be an issue. But if i lose him in chase and just get this perma debuff that can only go away if im downed or get close enough to be in chase with him for what feels like an eternity. All this when he has teleports and just needs to hit you with essentially a clown bottle.
Like I just want I way I can control to cleanse it. It would be fine if it went down while hiding in a locker at the same speed as looking at him, It would still get the super benefit of having the survivor not be able to do anything for like 20 seconds. Like artist loses her stuff both with an action of the survivor OR going in a locker. Trickster just is like "eh dont get hit for a few seconds it'll go down to nothing". But him its like "Well 12m you better see his whole body and hold that stare for 20 seconds. We will also have you glow florescent pink while this happens to ensure he sees you. Good luck not getting caught."
-
I am just gonna throw out that I don't care about missing Lights out. What I do care about is that they put exclusive permanent content in a tome that was so short. Content for an feature that has extremely limited options. For a feature designed to allow you to express yourself. In addition to doing all of this they centered it around a holiday and eliminated the event that was generally done around this holiday.
All of that being said the tome did not even require you playing the lights out game mode. All the challenges were normal challenges. It was "linked" to lights out solely by being released at the same time and the theme of the rewards...kinda because 2 of the rewards were Alan Wake themed.
I really made this post to vent about how as an active player in this game this huge time constraint was very annoying. It kinda got derailed and I apologize for this but my main point is that One week, surrounding a holiday, is way too short for an event tome with exclusive content.
-
@Nebula said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649484#Comment_3649484
Why are you talking to me like I’m Peanits lol, if you wanna tag him go on the thread in my profile.
I was more explaining how that response doesn't really address the main issue with my post.
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
A new year banner and badge icon?
Lunar new year. Which I am now retracting my sentiment because although I was told it was DRAGONGIFT it is apparently DRAGONYEAR
@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649473#Comment_3649473
Erm... as someone who also missed the event because I have had family to look after followimg their discharge from hospital... it seems like they don't like the game much if missing a few cosmetics is all it took to completely quit...
Does a virtual wardrobe really mean that much to people?
I can understand because its the feeling that BHVR doesn't care. If you play the game on a super consistent basis to the point of having all tomes maxed out and your week long break encompasses the entire event for exclusive content, it feels like a slap in the face. Did they do it to attack you, no but you assume they knew that an event that short would screw over some of their normally very active players especially having it centered around a holiday. So not playing while you still feel angry towards the company seems legit
-
@Nebula said:
This was Peanits response when I asked why the event was only 1 week last week:
"This is our first modifier, so we're still experimenting to find what works best. There's a couple reasons why it's only available for a limited time, but a big one is to help get matches going in the modifier. If it were available permanently, there would eventually come a point where the novelty wears off for many people and they move on, leading to extremely long queue times for the few people who still want to play it. Like an event, we'd like for modifiers to be fun things that pop up from time to time that people are excited to take part in.
There will be more modifiers in the future, though, and it's not out of the question that popular modes could return in the future. Any feedback is welcome!"
Okay but literally the PTB is longer and doesnt have anything you could miss if you failed to participate. I honestly am okay with missing the modifier. I have a hard time following scratchmarks in normal games and losing the terror radius would make me cry. But I would have done the games for the tome stuff that is only available during the modifier. And that doesnt explain why the lunar new year code for the badge and banner is done less than a week after the new year but the charms and bp are still up. I am never gonna use one of those charms because I own 10000 but choosing between 5 banners I would like more options.
-
@crogers271 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625225#Comment_3625225
Fair thoughts, but the problem is that this also affects perks that don't even do gen damage but require kicks such as Nowhere to Hide or Trail of Torment. Not only that, but both can even literally provide no benefit (such as no one being near near gen on nowhere to hide, or otherwise distortion being in play).These perks just got a buff (and killer overall got a buff). You've got enhanced gen kicking power and harder for survivors to regress a gen - so even if you don't get the perk value, kicking itself is buffed meaning going around kicking gens is more valuable. Trail of Torment especially is buffed, it just got a 5 second extension.
Hypothetically, I can see a killer running 4 gen regression perks very rarely running out of 8 charges on a gen while playing normally, but I doubt it will happen. Kicking a gen though 8 times and still needing to kick it a 9th (especially being gen kicking will be rarer with no gen tapping)? There's just not enough time in the game for that to occur. The only way that happens is with the dedicated 3 gen from the beginning, the exact thing the change is saying it should prevent.
Exactly this. I am saying this as a DBD player, both survivor and killer, this is a good thing. For killers who play normally they get a gen kick buff, even it they are a regression heavy killer. And for survivors you will not be stuck in a match where the killer is stalling a 3 gen from the start.
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625202#Comment_3625202
Fair thoughts, but the problem is that this also affects perks that don't even do gen damage but require kicks such as Nowhere to Hide or Trail of Torment. Not only that, but both can even literally provide no benefit (such as no one being near near gen on nowhere to hide, or otherwise distortion being in play).
On top of all of that, killers have a million and one things to worry about and balance, and now there is a generator just sitting there and they have to feel discouraged from kicking it? Playing killer is feeling more like jumping through loops of what they are not allowed to do so survivors can just keep standing there teabagging. Can't grab of hook, can't kick gens, have to stand way over there if someone is hooked, can't hit people off hook, and so on. While some of that definitely was needed (ie basekit BT), killer is constantly being bombarded of things they aren't allowed to do and it's becoming and increasingly more frustrating experience where every patch has the hands tied behind your back becoming tighter and tighter.
Again its the same gen those 8 times. Given Trail of Torments cooldown if you ever manage to have that issue idk whats been going on that game. Kinda the same thing with NWTH. In normal gameplay youre not gonna notice this, but moreover you will get the additional 2.5% instant regression and the survivors lack of ability to tap it. If anything I would state that because of those parts its actually making ToT and NWTH stronger. Same goes for CoB, Overcharge and especially surveillance because you'll know they are somewhat committing. Again 8 is so high on regression events to as single gen that it is a struggle to reach without multiple regression perks and even if you have multiple regression perks alot of them are combinable. Pop goes the same as literally kicking a gen and surge+eruption happen at the same time so they are going to be the same regression event. Then we have pain res which is only 4 regression events total. This literally is a buff to killers in 99% of games.
-
@Zenislev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624826#Comment_3624826
In what universe is this a buff. Explain how making the perk worse with no upsides buffs it.
As I mentioned the drop in percentage is definitely a nerf however the second part is not specifically for M1 killers. Previously if you hit the obsession with an basic attack and the obsession had endurance you would lose the stacks. However now it needs to be a loss of a health state so hitting the obsession when they have endurance via, dead hard, styptic, OTR, BT, Buckle Up or even non endurance mettle of man you dont lose stacks because they dont lose a health state. There are much more instances of survivors getting endurance than survivors being able to choose to lose a health state. So for M1 only killers this is either neutral or a very slight buff.
Meanwhile hitting non-obsession survivors with endurance have not changed. So you still gain stacks from that.
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624843#Comment_3624843
It's not kicking a gen 8 times, it's any regression event 2.5% or higher. That means if eruption hit the gen 4 times in a match, you'll never be able to kick the gen again.
And that also means you got 4 downs and 60% off that gen. And the screaming and the aura reads. How much are you wanting from a perk because in my mind that is well worth the perk slot, if you ever get to that point. which again idk how often you get 4 pops of eruption on one gen but for me that is a very niche case. This will be even more niche now that survivors cant tap gens. My whole point is whether its 8 gen kicks, surges, eruptions, pain res whatever you've maxed out the value you can do on that gen, which makes sense because this only happens if youre only focusing on something like a 3 gen. If you are partaking in normal gameplay you got other downs, regressions etc. Youve done ~1/3 of your objective with those 4 eruptions on 1/7 of the gens or 1/5 of the gens needed to be completed.
-
@xerox8521 said:
What about No where to hide the perk gets indirectly nerfed with the 8 stack limit. Imo the killer should always be able to proc NWTH on a gen regardless of its stack status even if no damage to the gen can be done.
I am sorry but
1) kicking a gen 8 times would still be insanely high and
2) having NWTH having 0 cooldown, and follow your character makes it either the strongest or second strongest information perk (if you feel ultimate weapon is stronger) It having a very niche and slight limitation isn't bad especially given the doubled power of gen kicks.
In addition people are focusing on all the perks that are "nerfed" by the 8 max hits but not the ones that a buffed by this change. Overcharge and Call of Brine both are getting a slight buff because of how much it takes to stop the increased regression. But the perk that's getting a biggest buff is Surveillance since a survivor working on the gen needs to be on for so long and if you head to a gen and it turns white you know they just stepped off and hadnt been on for 4.5 seconds. The perks getting "nerfed" are all meta perks. According to Nightlight Pain Res and Surge have 23% and 15% pick rates. NWTH and Eruption both have around 5%. Meanwhile CoB and Overcharge are 3-4% and Surveillance is less than 1%.
This is a big buff for killers in general with losing gen tapping and doubling the initial damage. Even if you hit the cap with gen kicks you took 40% or 36 seconds from the survivor and 20% of that is from the buff. If you are getting it from perks you are getting min 60% (from 4 eruptions) on a single gen which is an INSANE amount of value.
-
@Zenislev said:
Come on. Don't try to spin this like it's some kind of buff. It's a nerf. A big, blatant and completely unnecessary nerf, and one that completely misses the mark by doubling down on the one of the big reasons people complained about STBFL in the first place; It encourages the killer to just ignore a player.
The 4% is definitely a nerf but this part isnt 100% bad and for M1 killers its a neutral to a very slight buff. This isn't as bad as people make it out to be and provides more counterplay for the survivors which is good because if a killer had an M2 previously the obsession couldnt force a removal of the stack protecting the tunnel. Could it have been done better? probably. Is it the end of the world people are acting like? Definitely not.
-
@PotatoPotahto said:
Well, you won't lose stacks on Dead Hard, but you won't gain them either, so what's your point
yes you will. you gain stacks on a non obsession basic attack and now lose stacks on the obsession losing a health state. So you will still gain a stack if a non obsession dead hards you but not lose the two if the obsession dead hards.
-
@Majin151 said:
Wait I'm pretty sure causing deep wounds can drain stacks although I could be wrong as I don't pay attention to my stacks after hitting obsession and causing deep wound and just assume that I lost stacks
they can now but not with the change. When it changes to health state you will either need to go to injured or dying
-
@bjorksnas said:
At the end of the day if people are playing to win you just need to be able to get a survivor out of the game when you need to. Thats why no real systems were implemented and very few changes have been made to tunneling. Sure tunneling "before" you need to leads to what feel like unfair matches but its a way to secure wins as much as any other strategy. At the end of the day if you want a balanced game without tunneling you would need massive killer buffs and changes to compensate because of the immense pressure a killer loses from not being able to tunnel.
I don't think that they are suggesting removing the possibility but make it the correct choice in 90% of the games. which I think means giving the killer a reason not to tunnel and giving survivors also as reason to protect someone if they are getting tunnelled because that doesnt seem apparrent.
-
Essentially as it stands both killers and survivors have incentive to play in a way that get survivors tunneled. Killers need an incentive to injure and down the other survivors. I don't like the BP idea because some people dont care about it and also it would still be in effect after tunneling someone. One thing you could do is as long as all 4 survivors are alive when you hook someone for the first time you get a mini pop goes the weasel, like +5% on your next gen kick. No time limit but will go away if you kill someone. Small but not insignificant. Or make every gen start regressing that isnt being worked on but no initial damage. Survivors incidentally you need to do something similar. Where you incentivize the survivor to take the chase. Survivors should be protecting each other and do in SWF but not so much in solo queue This mitigates tunneling A LOT. I would say if the survivor who was last hooked is in chase with the killer, slow gens by 5% unless another survivor is also in chase with the killer. This would allow for the survivors to be incentivized to help but also have no incentive to be "tunneled". Both sides need a little push.
-
@skylerbound said:
Honestly this would be best because I am so over seeing killers actively ignore an easy down to just kick a gen.
Pushing killers toward chasing is a good thing.
"I'm sorry my objective isn't to chase or down you its to ensure that these gens are only repaired by union electricians and y'all don't have certification. SMASH"
-
Ruin wont count as a regression event as it requires 2.5% instant regression. So ruin wont count nor will oppression on any of the gens that isnt specifically kicked.
-
@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624327#Comment_3624327
You again keep using these absurdly high regression values. For some reason till that patch announcement it was considered absolutely fine to make gens regress limitless amount of times so long as they are not the part of triangle. Now you keep justifying a massive nerf to entire regression system by using these excuses while intentionally ignoring potential games that have nothing to do with 3 gen situation.
Are you per chance a survivor main? I figured this forum is full of those but even that part of community should realize where will this change lead to and how much will the game quality drop.
But these aren't absurdly high regression values these are the regression values by the perk descriptors. Like if you are concerned that surge might hit a gen at less than 8% your right it might but it wont hit it below 5 again because if the survivor got off before 5 it would regress back down and there will still be 7 times left to make it regress.
Like I play both sides, I have all the achievements except booning hexes. I see killers taking away twice as much per kick and survivors not being able to tap to stop regression, a buff to the killer. I also see this being a buff to Overcharge, and Call of Brine because theres a greater chance they will be regressing longer. I see this as being a buff to Surveillance because they need to spend a while on a gen to get it to stay yellow. I see this as an encouragement to use gift of pain, dying light (probably not), thano and penti to slow down gen progress. Having a cap to how many times that a gen can lose a percentage instantly from the killer as high as 8 per individual gen is a super niche and rare nerf that comes with some huge buffs. And that nerf doesn't effect normal gameplay.
-
@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624298#Comment_3624298
Those 8 stacks will burn quickly with specific perk stack.
Survivors not being able to tap it out will stop being the problem when they will realize how they should behave around it. 4.5 second isn't that much of a price when you know that it contributes to a gen that can't be regressed at all. As long as you don't try to repair it in the face of the killer, you will be fine. If you notice that gen is difficult to repair now for whatever reason - move to a more safer one. Eventually you will end up with un-safe gens being left which will form a triangle which you and your team mates can now break out by forcing killing to do kicks or burn remaining regression events.
The entire system now rewards you as survivor for not letting gens regress by all means. You are no longer being punished for trying to repair a gen in the bad spot, in fact, there's no more such thing as bad spot for a generator.
Go ahead and tell me which perks I am curious because its really kinda difficult to get there without getting some extreme usage out of the perk. Surge alone gives you min 64% for the 8 downs you got in one area of the map. That is 58 seconds of survivor time, not including either the unhook/pickup healing and regression on the 8 downs you got. Eruption is the lowest with 60% for your 4 kicks and 4 downs which is still 54 seconds of survivor time and that is 10% more than current. Are you actually getting more value from these perks on a single gen in a game, cause I cannot imagine how. If you're doing a combo, I have stated before but I will be shocked if when surge and eruption both trigger on the same gen if it doesnt count it as 1 event as you dont hear double explosion nor do survivors scream 2x. Which just leaves Pain Res which is just going to increase the potential you get off the single gen. If you are playing games where more than 8 gen regressions happen on a single gen we are playing different games. And even so I would say the perk did its job extremely well and now its up to you.
-
@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623976#Comment_3623976
But let me get one thing straight: the gen will still gain progress from these seconds, right? Or they will have to repair for 4,5 seconds before the gen start gaining progress again? Because they can do this silly stuff of doing the gen in front of the killer face until the killer run out of kick/regression. Its kinda rare and silly, but happened to me more than once.
Really, lets wait for the PTB to Kick in (bad dum tss) to see how this is going to play. But for now, i think this system need some tweaks to be more fair for killer and survivors.
From my understanding they need to stay on a gen until they repair 5% (which is 4.5 seconds no perks/toolboxes/skill checks) to stop a gen from regressing. Meaning if they are on for 3 seconds and then get off essentially it will act like ruin and start regressing again. But a regression event only occurs when the killer causes it to lose 2.5% instantly via kick or perk. So if a survivor hops on in front of you if you get there in <4.5 seconds and hit them the gen starts regressing again but no new event happened. So if we do a scenario:
New way:
Gen is at 50%
You kick Gen is at 45%
You walk away
3 seconds after the kick the survivor hops on gen which is now at 44.1%
You head back chasing the survivor off the gen after they worked for 3 seconds. Gen at 47.1%
You chase and down the survivor after 20 seconds Gen at ~41.5%
Assuming no perks youve used 1 Gen regression event. on the gen.
Old way:
Gen is at 50%
You kick Gen is at 47.5%
You walk away
3 seconds after the kick the survivor hops on gen which is now at 46.6%
You head back chasing the survivor off the gen after they worked for 3 seconds. Gen at 49.6%
You chase and down the survivor after 20 seconds Gen at ~49.6%
-
@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624241#Comment_3624241
Yes I do. I also look at things from various points before making a judgement call.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624252#Comment_3624252
Let me elaborate a bit here.
If you happen to be regressing the same gen over and over ( most likely because the gen is either close to completion or currently has the highest progress ( other gens may also have high progress, just a little less than the one that gets regressed ) ) either by kicking it or getting a benefit from the perks, that does mean you are doing one of two your main jobs well, which in case you forgot for killers are - kill all survivors and prevent them from repairing gens.
So here's entire picture - if you perform well at one job, it has to be downing and hooking survivors asap, because your potential of doing another job, which is gen defending, is constantly dwindling. If it happens that you manage to do both at same time, which gen regression perks exists for, you end up being punished for defending gens after wards. Downed a survivor and there was a gen with progress while you had a Surge Perk equipped? Yes, you regressed that gen for 8%, but in turn you used one out those 8 tokens. Why you deserve to get punished here? You did your job and got a survivor, isn't that what killer has to do? None of this is related to 3 genning situation that this change was ''supposed'' to deal with, it's a standard average game here.
You won't be getting scenario where you found a gen at 99% progression rate and regressed it back to 0 8 times. You will however be getting scenario where you intentionally or not regressed a gen at less than 50% progression rate 8 times and now you have a gen that can't be regressed at all.
The entire point is youre not gonna be punished because youre not gonna hit 8 stacks. 8 stacks is SO MUCH and given that each perk requires a down or a hook youre gonna win by kills and hooks anyway. The only thing I could see being a problem is a bunch of stacking of regression perks which for starters its probably a good thing to not have 4 regression but even so, I will need to wait til the PTB to test this BUT I think Surge and eruption are going to count as the same regression even since they happen at the same time. Even if they dont you get such value in the EXTREMELY RARE instance that you max the usage on a gen. Like 60% from eruption or 64% from surge is insane considering you also probably got benefits from those elsewhere. And thats not even counting the time it passively regresses. And with survivors no longer being able to tap gens but needing to be on for 4.5 seconds its going to be much harder for survivors to defend the gens they are working on from regressing. You essentially will need 2 people, one to take the killer away and one to remake the progress. This is not a bad thing. If you do find a gen at 50% that cant be regressed anymore you either kicked it 8 times or it was effected by perks 8 times. Either way you regressed the hell out of that gen and either got a huge amount from your perks or an addition 20ish percent from the increase in hitting. Not to mention the lack of tapping to stop regression. Like I am failing to see a scenerio that isn't either the perks overperforming or you over kicking and not noticing how much the buff is doing.
Because if you kick a gen 4 times and any time after that it is at 90% the buff stopped the gen from being done. 6 times same goes for 85%. The only ONLY time this change hurts you is when you break a gen 8 time and the gen wouldnt have been completed without the buff. And given that perks require downs means that if you hit it 8 times because of perks you also got alot of downs and you are in a very good spot.
-
I mean they now work slightly less well together because it takes longer to stop the regression of pain res so you wont be able to kick it with pop but otherwise yea
-
@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624173#Comment_3624173
Gens will be at 10 - 20% progression on average if you are playing against slightly competent survivors or those who don't waste time. Be sure that uncontrollable regression caused by certain perks will now punish killers while survivors are no longer punished by regression at all since now they are progressing to a non-regression-able gen state.
Simply speaking - all gens now have 2 progression states. First progression is standard and involves gen being repaired from 0% to 100%. The new progression state is 8 regression event tokens. Now if you can't repair a gen for any reason, you will simply make it become unregress-able which means killer won't be able to defend it all, thus it can be repaired once killer leaves the area.
Okay but at least as of now there are 3 perks that cause a regression event Surge, Eruption, and Pain Res. Then of course you have kicking a gen and all the perks included in that. Each perk that has its own event requires a down or a hook. Meaning if you are getting all the events without kicking you are getting between 4-8 downs, lower end using multiple perks and reduced the gen by between 64-132%. The minimum that you can do with kicks is 40%. This is in a vacuum on one generator to reach the point of not being able to regress a gen. 36 seconds bare min of survivors time, which previously was 18. But in the end you either shouldnt be kicking the gen or you have gotten insane use out of your perks. Either way it shouldnt really effect game play.
-
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624075#Comment_3624075
Feel like this might increase tunneling if the obsession is the unhooker. Now rather than chasing the obsession with M2 hits, ppl will ACTUALLY save them for last.
This is literally the only concern I would have. Personally I would have kept it at 5%, changed the saying to damage the obsession by any means but then if the obsession is alive when a non-obsession becomes unhooked they become the new obsession.(IE Michaël being obsessed with those he hasn't finished off yet.) this would keep the spirit of the perk and strength of the perk as long as you didn't tunnel. It would also have better synergy with dying light and play with your food.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624178#Comment_3624178
Great, but we are still nerfing pig and legion then?
who is using STBFL on legion. Like when are you m1ing to damage. Generally you dont til you down so the cooldown mean a hell of a lot less.
In addition as the pig you would need to be sniffing their bum to guarantee a hit with an m2. Like most pig will mostly ignore the obsession instead
The people this could hurt are nemi demo and deathslinger. And the any means change still ends up having the benefit of not removing stacks from endurance which is pretty nice. like yeah they are getting a little bit of a nerf in using it but it also evens the perk for all killers. I don't see an issue with the second change. and the first change just changes it back to before the 6.1 update so im not really salty with it.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624153#Comment_3624153
yeah, 4 downs if you are hard tunneling or camping, sure then the game is over. But if you try to play slightly nice, what happens. Again this continues to force killers to play in the scummiest ways possible because the gens simply go too fast when you don't play that way.
Its not even that its you took away 60% or 54 seconds of time from the survivors on a single gen and achieved 4 downs. This is in a vacuum, I am assuming youre playing the game meaning you are most likely kicking other gens or chasing survivors or survivors are not focused on other gens because at bare minimum 2 survivors have been working on this one for at least 4.5 seconds in between hooks to stop the regression so you can kick it again. I am thinking about the game as a whole and in the proposed scenario where this would end up happening you are either winning/doing very well or you have been hard focused on a singular gen the entire game which is what they are trying to get rid of. In addition I am trying to show that you got insane value out of the perk on just that one gen. Like if youre wanting to think of it as a nerf, sure whatever, but I would be hard pressed to find a game where eruption went off 5 times on a single gen.
-
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624032#Comment_3624032
But perks like eruption are more heavily nerfed, because eruption triggers an event twice. Once for the kick, and once again for the explosion. So now eruption can be at most used 4 times per gen. Which is starting to get very limiting.
@DBD78 said:
Leave Eruption out and you should be fine. Pair Eruption with Surge and these 8 events could fast vanish.
Okay so for you to lose all the stacks of eruption you would need 4 events which means that you took 60% from that one gen still have it on all the other ones possibly have survivors scream and show auras for 48 seconds AND got 4 downs. Which again generally means youre either winning or some shenanigans are going on.
Surge with Eruption I can almost guarantee will only count as one event, because they happen simultaneously, and a good example is you only see one explosion only hear one scream. But even if they dont that is still 61% you have taken from the one gen not counting anything else done by those perks or regression. A good way too see how strong that is is realizing that its out performing 2 pain res hooks on 3 any person downs before you hook them. Again it shouldnt effect your gameplay if that happens, unless you were focused on the 3 gen from the start.
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624113#Comment_3624113
My effectiveness in the match has absolutely nothing to do with the point. The point is that 8 charges can get eaten up incredibly fast.
No it does because yes you lost 3/8 of the gen kicks available by getting 3 downs. The only gen regression event perks either require a down or a hook. So getting 3 back to back to back mean that you have either downed several people or are running multiple perks and just took like 50% off a gen, without which the gen would most likely have been completed. This type of event will not happen enough times to the same gen in a single match because of the nature of the events.
-
@Quizzy said:
We may need to test out ftp buckle in this ptb. Because you do become the obsession and lose a health state in the process.
you will lose 2 from the FTP if the person is already the obsession but not if they arent. Don't need the PTB Remember me has the same mechanic.
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
Regression events can happen super fast. Prime example.
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/s/kOOkEYxO5X
In about 30 seconds, nearly half of my charges would be eaten up AND if I was using any kick perks such as Nowhere To Hide, I have that many times less that I could use them.
tell me youre joking on this one. My dude. You used up 3 hits on the middle gen sure. no explosions elsewhere. but you got three downs and you think you would be concerned that that middle gen only has 5 more hits. Like that game is essentially over AND you got 24% regression on the gen. and dont say this is just an example because this is the only example sans eruption+ Pain Res+ surge that you would get 3 events this quickly. Its means multiple downs making the need for that defense much less and you will still have plenty
-
@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623999#Comment_3623999
I have had 3 regression events within seconds of each before. That's nearly half of my charges gone for the entire match in under a minute. That's simply not scalable.
okay even if those are the three weakest ones you took 5% from a kick, 8% from surge and 10% from eruption so you got 23% off a gen and still have 5 more on that gen, and got a down and its regressing. How many times do you expect that to happen on the same gen because you need to prime it and get the down. You also can do this three times taking away 61% which is hella value. Thats assuming that they count surge and eruption separately but because they happen at the exact same time I would bet they would act as one event which means you could do it 4 times getting 92% with still having the perks for other gens.
-
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624038#Comment_3624038
Or... here me out. The completely normal use of plot twist shouldn't also hit STBFL stacks.
Ill take the occasional plot twist since it means I dont need to worry about losing any to endurance but will still gain them from it.
-
@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624032#Comment_3624032
Those 8 regression events are easy to spend if you use certain perks or there is a hot gen that needs defending. 5% regression per kick means nothing and once survivors figure out they can't just mindlessly one tap gens, you won't be able able to defend such gens at all.
Okay if we are going with perks. We wont even kick the gen, just perks. You get surge 8 times. That is 64% progress you broke on the gen plus whatever you got from the regression. that is literally 64% of pain res's full effect on one gen and the perk still can be used on the other ones. In addition you had 8 downs with basic attacks. If you dont win that game I am shocked. Eruption is kinda rough because you get 2 hits per trigger, one from the hit and one from the down but you still have 60%. The only other regression perks that effect this are Pain Res, which increases the amount anyway, and Pop which doesnt take up more than just a hit. You are not going to hit this event almost ever even with a bunch of regression perks because the game will be over one way or another before this happens.
-
@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3624003#Comment_3624003
I just imagining plot twist shenanigans
Again I feel like as a killer this goes back to my trapper thought. If the obsession wants to use plot twist to take 2 stacks away like thats their full perk except during end game. If they want to use it with a second person that is 16 seconds of time from two survivors where they are not doing gens or working on objectives in addition to the perk slot. Also I would have had to injure them at one point unless they use FTP which again is more time and perks. Like I know I am cool with it. The only time this might be a problem is end game with someone on hook but if thats the case damn they dedicated resources and respect.
-
8 regression events per gen.
-
Peanits clarified this in my post https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/401987/clarification-on-the-dev-notes-gen-kick#latest
"I can clear some of this up.
- Once a generator has reached the limit, it can no longer be kicked or damaged by Perks.
- Any generator which has already exceeded the limit cannot be affected by Surge, and therefore will not cause any Survivors working on it to scream.
- Failed skill checks are not considered regression events, even if they are caused by the Killer's perk. This is because it's caused by the Survivor(s) missing, not the Killer."
-
@DBD78 said:
Obsession will trap themselves in bear traps when Trapper is far away just so the killer loses stacks lol
Do you realize how much time this would waste for survivors. Like the obsession needs to find an armed trap get trapped and freed to make the killer lose 2 stacks of STBFL. They also have to hope that the trapper doesnt have the purple coil to make them downed or bring a second survivor to free them. Like I will take that time sink as it will take another 16 seconds to heal assuming they want to try again or longer with a med kit. All for a perk they are either assuming I have or that I have enough stacks that they know I have it, either way is good for me.