pseudechis
pseudechis
About
- Username
- pseudechis
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
Don't apologise for a long post I'm happy to read it and this so far has been a very civil and interesting discussion.
The core point has strayed a lil but I don't think we've gone completely off topic as the topic relates to skill issues playing a role in supposed "camping" and "Tunneling", where those disparities in skill come from and how people react to them, given the topics of camping and tunneling are hot button ones at the best of times.
I don't really have much to add as I think you've answered my points well. I believe we share a similar view but come at it from different angles.
I don't have a better solution to some of the problems listed but I also don't see them as big problems either. Yeah self policing and band aid mechanics may be the solutions we have but it doesn't make them good solutions.
A: not everyone's the same: That's why self policing doesn't really work.
Keep in mind we have to accept that the player who focuses on their own fun without regard for their opponent's is just as valid as a player who does think of other player's fun, because not everyone's motivation to play is the same and the reality is the consequences are non-existent in the grand scheme, a bad game is just that a bad game nothing more.
Why is one valid play and the other not, especially given the inconsequential context? Do we have the right to force people to play how we want? The answers are, it isn't and we don't.
B: theres a certain balance to challenges: Yeah I think we've established and agree on that but often the complaints about balance are heavily one side, so its typically grain of salt all round. Its about sifting the value from the crap as it were. Not all opinions are valid as much as we may want them to be.
C: With respect to people who quit. This is where my concept of codling comes from. With anything that's been around a long time and has an experienced player base, you'd expect as a beginner to eat a lot of losses before you get the opportunity to do well. If doing so makes someone quit then that's a them problem. So how much do we handhold the quitters simply to attenuate their aversion to loss and willingness to quit when faced with hardship? I don't have a good answer for this, but its not my job its BHVR's all I can do is express what I would like from the game.
If the brutal and unique parts of the game making it a real horror experience induce some people to quit, then I have to admit I'd rather see them quit than the game be put on training wheels in the name of making it less confronting. Especially as this tends to appeal to players who really take it to seriously and are quite single minded in how they play and how they expect others to play.
I'm often reminded of that Twilight Zone episode where everyone has to think happy thoughts all the time at the whim of a small child who can punish them if they don't. That kind of Orwellian behavioural control is a bad thing. Especially if the setting is a horror experience where the goal of the killer is to violently kill you but they are forced to do that in the nicest way possible while considering your feelings. Why? because people can't separate the game world from the real world.
I'm not reading to much into the game, its only a game. But how people react to games can be very telling and it makes me ponder the overarching reasons why people collectively behave the way they do.
I've enjoyed this back and forth but I think its reached its natural endpoint, please add more if you like, I'll happily read it, but I'm not sure I have much more to add without eventually going way off topic. Good luck in the fog.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569437#Comment_3569437
If this is going the direction we think then what of those who lobby shop for easier matches? The fault lies with the players? We feel it's a hard yes. MMR works for us fine so makes us wonder what is going on with everyone else.
While holding back on the off chance it is a new survivor is indeed not a great concept, it's still an option. If you're doing well enough and can afford it, why not spare them Abit of grief (not their life but not kill them off in the moment)? It is a game with no stakes. As it stands people have a distinct lack of empathy here to a degree that surprises us but that's also another topic (with a story even). The weak link keeps dying quickly each time and either learns slow and painfully or quits.
Well I think lobby shopping is a big problem.
MMR doesn't cope well with queue times and balanced games when it comes to people not committing to what their matched with. Your customers either wait longer or they get backfilled into mis-matched games. Neither is a great result and you just have to find the best medium road with which to balance the two.
Attenuating game mechanics just to account for being backfilled into tougher games or expecting players to police that themselves though is not really a solution.
In a perfect world I guess we'd all think of each others feelings but at the same time what are really trying to be empathetic about here. As you say its a game of no consequence.
Getting smashed in a computer game is hardly a life changing event. Heck getting smashed in computer games was at one time what computer games used to be.
Any kid who pumped change into an arcade machine back in the 80's learned this lesson hard, yet we still kept coming back for more because the challenge was part of the fun, the reality was it didn't matter.
If its the goal of a player to smash their opponents and enjoy the power trip that comes with that, then more power to them as that's part of the game experience as well.
Lastly can we attribute the need to be coddled and offered a heap of second chances to some modern shift in personal resilience with respect to gaming?
Is it a simplified mirror of the modern world as a whole where after generations of "everyone gets a trophy day" celebrating mediocrity has lead to a society that can no longer cope with even the irrelevant of losses? Even the harsh ones.
At what point do players take responsibility for personal improvement rather than outsource that responsibility to game design and others?
Maybe I am reading to much into it.
-
@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569391#Comment_3569391
It makes sense from a business standpoint, for selling skins/DLC chapters/battlepass.. player experience is more important than being faithful to original DBD, this game is different now it's not really survival horror, it's played like every other competitive pvp games, most players follow meta builds/try to play optimally
for example new sadako can still insta kill at 0 hooks pretty consistently, for me it's really not the best thing this game has to offer, I find it more annoying than scary
Yeah I absolutely get it.
I just miss when I used to sweat playing survivor, because I really needed to get away from the killer or I was done for, like a real horror movie.
One could make the argument that the appeal of the horror experience will make people buy stuff because of the unique horror experience, I know I was more invested in the game when it was scarier and lil more unfair. Both as killer and survivor.
The reality tends to be different though, to profit you need to "broaden appeal", which means we need the same bland oatmeal everyone else is serving because it broadly appealing and inoffensive, so more people in general will consume it.
Its the trend, the moment someone in a design role says the words "broaden appeal" the you know your on the slow train to banality.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568731#Comment_3568731
And yet theres a lot of miss match, but thats a different debate regarding mmr. Regardless that point still stands especially as "should" doesn't always translate as "does". There are also other factors to consider, such as if a teammate loops the killer near you and uses everything. And what if theyre the weakest link each time? How much practical experience will they get each time? Will it be enough to over come the quit factor? And again we say we agreed with you, but now we kinda want to go the agreement route for entertainment value.
Yes MMR is a different topic but if the example requires a failure of MMR as the core cause, it becomes very relevant. The fault lies in the poor match making system there not the players.
I agree with your point about fun but again its the role of MMR to ensure "balanced" games and can be a stretch to push the responsibility of botched MMR onto the players.
As while you can guage throughout a game if someone is less experienced than you, making that call on the basis of what could just be an experienced play with a botched first chase and then feeling obligated to attenuate your gameplay on the off chance it could be someone new trying to learn, isn't a great concept on the whole.
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568707#Comment_3568707
As @Seraphor pointed out. Its a bad kind of Stress.
Survivors can see what their teammates do at all time. They see what affects them, who got hooked, who is getting chased, etc. With all the responsibility shared between the 4.
The killer has to keep track of who he hooked how often, while keeping track of the progress of the gens, what perks the survivors were using (DH, MfT can drag out a chase for a very long time), etc. All by himself.
Yeah this was addressed a few posts back I'm well aware of the mechanical and behavioural concept.
Just the point is survivor is supposed to be scary, the scare element here comes from the high stakes complete inability to participate or elimination if caught.
These days there is less impact of being caught so all the stressors present for killer are largely still there but a lot of the cost to survivor for being caught has been attenuated in an effort to increase player, participation and game time.
i.e you don't just insta kill people with mori's anymore, greater limits of insta down mechanics, anti-camp. All designed to increase survivor game time, which is good from a player participation point but kinda bad from a scary survival horror point.
The key source of fear for survivors is non-participation and elimination, so without that what are survivors to be scared and by in large stressed about?
The threat is going in the wrong direction.
-
@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568707#Comment_3568707
It's down to the format of the game. Killer only has themselves to rely on to do everything. Meanwhile if another survivor is occupying the killer, you're likely free to relax and just tackle your objectives as you wish.
I also predominantly play solo survivor and rarely have stressful games unless other survivors are being completely incompetent.
In fact I find survivor the most fun when I'm either in a well coordinated team who happen to complement each other, so you're on top of everything and it's not stressful at all. Or when I'm the last remaining and trying to evade the killer. It's the good kind of stressful like a real survival horror game should be.
Killer is the bad kind of stressful, where you just have too much to do and not enough hands to carry it all.
I get the pragmatics of it.
What I often ponder is the seeming need to ensure that all survivors are viable for a "full game".
Spawning in a game and dying in < 5 mins is not always a great gaming experience, but the threat of that happening is what made DBD exciting a survivor.
It was a scary prospect to be found by the killer simple because it could nullify your ability to participate and even remove you entirely. Chases were sweaty because the stakes were so high.
I feel like the stakes are much lower on the survivor end these days. (to clarify I'm not saying survivor is easy, just the costs of interaction with the killer have generally gone down).
I get mechanically why, because they want players to feel like they can stay in game for longer than 5 mins especially if waiting in a 10 min queue to get in.
The byproduct of that though was the tension kinda fell out of the bottom of the game, leading to the antagonist juggling the protagonists for longer, while the protagonists have less to fear from the antagonist.
Neither of these are good things on the whole when it comes to survival horror.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3566004#Comment_3566004
Maybe we're not making our point clear (or we're missing something from yours). While true they have an opportunity to try and escape that chase, since this example has a much more experienced killer, this chase ends super fast and practically non existent. And then what of the next one if they're tunneled? They can try and improve again but its probably gona be shorter than the first depending on what happened while they were on hook. And same with that last chase under that circumstance. The amount of experience they gained (sounding like an rpg here...) is practically nil and the survivor in question probably had a short (probably frustrating) time actually playing and will say [BEEP] it and quit.
Again, we're going with survivors trying to improve their skills while being tunneled, though admittedly we're thinking of newer survivors instead of the usuals. Might be a factor
...9 seconds is MORE than enough time to pick a target at the start...especially on mobile killers...
But the example you gave requires a mismatched killer with lots of hours vs a new player.
You're not gonna get a balanced outcome from that no matter what, tunneling or not.
Preying on the weakest link is a common thing in life and in gaming. The quicker you learn not to be the weakest link the better you succeed.
If evenly matched, being "tunneled" should afford the same opportunity to practice chase and any other chase does, because it's just another chase.
The onus is on MMR to make sure the hard "I quit" factor is minimal as possible. Again I say how much hand holding do we really need?
-
@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3568614#Comment_3568614
This might be shocking, but i´m a survivor main. Killer has become way to stressful for me. So i rarely play killer and just play survivor most of the time. Because survivor is more relaxing. Even as solo.
So i repeat, why is survivor so relaxing in comparison to killer? After all, a bloodthirsty killer is trying to kill them. Survivor should be anything BUT relaxed.
This is a question I often ponder, as its a common thread for people to talk about killer being more stressful and scarier than survivor.
I mean what??
Its not a good thing in a survival horror if the protagonist is scarier and more deadly than the antagonist.
Just makes me wonder sometimes.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565665#Comment_3565665
Again we agree, but then there are things such as lethal. If the weak link keeps getting unlucky for example and chosen to die first by the big bad hunter with triple their hrs, there's little time to build up skills before they say #### it and leave. As you said there needs to be a balance (and we agree with yours) but that fact remains.
True lethal plays can play a part in something like that but it still affords you the opportunity to try and escape from chase.
You can't learn how to escape if you're never chased. Does it matter so much that a chase may start 5 mins into a game or 2 mins?
Lethal aura reading only lasts for 9 secs.
-
It not built to give free escapes from the hook or to force killers to run to the far side of the map, or to modify hook timers.
Its basically to prevent the game experience of... I get found 30s into match I get hooked, face camped, die on hook my game experience is 1 min of chase and 3 mins of hook next game.
That's the one scenario its designed to alter. That's it.
You now don't have to be unhooked by someone else and can get back into the game again on your own, if the killer is staring you in the face. The onus is still on you the survivor to escape from the killer in your next chase.
-
The point of the chase is to escape from the killer, now over time its evolved into sinking the killer's time so your teammates can complete gens.
Its not that you are expected to go down, its that you are expected to try and escape from chase and remaining in chase is not a good thing. So it gets riskier to do as time goes on and then you can be expected to go down.
Being found by the killer and forced to flee is not meant to be a good thing for the survivor.
Remaining in chase for a long time is also not meant to be a good thing for the survivor.
Bloodlust plays a part in ensuring it isn't.
-
Its relative though, how many games of 1 hook do you have vs how many games of 3-4k?
If the 1 hook games bum you out then learn what you can from them and focus on the wins instead.
Yeah I'll say this though the game experience definitely went downhill with "skill" based match making. Couple it with the gutting of strong tools used to fight teams on comms and the relative win/loss ratio may bork up and down a bit.
-
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565187#Comment_3565187
So very unfortunately true
For the topic:
While we agree with some of the sentiments, we're gotta to point out that tunneling does not always allow for survivors to display or improve the skills listed (for example how would they improve said stealth skill if the killer is within line of view)
True getting targeted and eliminated early especially when you're new and an easy target is harsh.
But its also a reality of playing games online and games in general, I mean how much hand holding do we really need to do.
Maybe its because I'm an old school gamer from the days before every game had a 20 min tutorial that told you what each button does. The best way to learn is to lose and the harder you lose often the harder you learn, but it seems like losing now turns into being a victim of an unfair system rather than a learning experience.
I rarely get tunneled out early now because I've learned not to be found first and play more mindfully and cautiously at game start, which you would expect in a horror survival game.
It's common to see players just run everywhere and make mountains of noise and then complain they got eliminated early and its kinda silly.
Yeah there is a balance needed between the two but if the solution keeps being, "lets build in more mechanics so people don't have to play well", then as a survival horror the game gets more and more lackluster every time they do that.
-
@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3565030#Comment_3565030
im a kid and i play it as if its just a game
That's great, you are displaying a maturity that outstrips some of the adults here. 👍️
-
It's easier to blame the opponent when things go wrong.
What people typically call getting tunneled is just being chased again, whatever they did to fail to escape from chase the first time they then did a second time. That's all.
Just as splitting up to smash out gens makes perfect sense targeting a weak link in the team and eliminating them early makes perfect sense.
It's an elimination game and sometimes you get caught out and eliminated early. People really struggle to understand and accept that.
There are a lot of games with early elimination but I don't think I've ever seen people go on about it the same way the DBD community does.
Does the horror genre just attract people whom can't play nice with others? And by that I mean people who can't take loss like an adult?
-
NOED is a game closer not a necessity.
If you feel you need it to catch up then yeah I'd recommend trying to play without it if overall improvement is the goal.
But there is nothing wrong with running it.
I think people need to stop viewing it as a be all answer for second chance perks, that it is not.
-
@HugTechLover said:
I won’t slug for the 4k outside of adepts. It’s a waste of time for everybody, and nobody likes being slugged, including me, so I won’t do it to anybody else.
Just hook the guy and go next. “bUt tHe bLoOdPoiNtS”… going next and immediately hopping into another game is much more consistent at blood point gains than the amount of time you waste playing the 4k slug game.
You make a very good point about moving on being a more efficient way to earn BP's. This has to account for queue times to though, longs cues can sometimes induce me to stay in game for longer as killer.
It doesn't completely invalidate the choice to go for the 4k though as simply wanting to catch all the survivors can be motivation enough.
-
@cburton311 said:
3 point plan
1) Make joining a game mean, staying with it in spectator mode until the match is finished. Even on restarting the game.
2) make scoring based on team victory conditions. 4 escapes best survivor team score, worse killer score. 5 gens incomplete and all 4 sacrificed is best killer result and worst survivor team score. Grant bonus score for individual accomplishments.
3) both sides need hope that victory is possible. Improve matchmaking quality. For expexted lopsided matches institute a handcap on gen repair times
Yeah at the very least look at games like MWO, I can't log into a new game with that particular mech till the current one is done if I die early.
Maybe start locking players out of their character till the game ends. If they try and play the same survivor they just port back into the game as a spectator.
I know its not the best system but some people get really attached to their mains, so it may be something.
Team outcome should definitely weight pips and MMR.
-
Remember the game's not over just because you lose 2 gens at game start.
The momentum of this game isn't dictated by gen speeds alone, it can feel like it but that's often before you have a good grasp of killer.
Yes SWF using comms nullifies many aspects of this game, but its a separate beast entirely.
-
Yeah you are allowed to find it a waste of time and not like it...
But to someone else the extra blood points may not be a waste of time so that reason only works for your personal view and, can be requested of, but not really applied to others.
I don't think you can chalk it all down to ego either, because people like to get the kills, you get extra points for getting kills and slugging for the 4k maximizes your chance of getting the kills without having to gamble for it, so it makes perfect sense to maximize your chances if you have the option.
The time aspect, well unfortunately your personal time management is not the prerogative of others, you need to make time to play games and if you don't have time, maybe you should get other things done before gaming. Its a harsh reality but it is a fact of life, personal time management counts.
Lastly a mechanism to end bleed out timer early could be a good thing... but only if all 4 survivors were slugged with no ability to pick themselves up.
That is the scenario where there is nothing anyone can do but bleed out. If you could end it prematurely on the ground outside of that scenario then you'd just end up with people using it as another way to quit while circumventing DC penalties.
Funnily enough the 4 min timer is the solution to being slugged simply because you eventually bleed out!
The alternative is you just lie there indefinitely.
Is the timer too long? That's a different discussion. I personally don't think so.
-
Yep this is one of those grain of salt moments. Ignore and move on.
Just about anybody can conjure a reason why they themselves didn't screw up and its the other side's fault they lost.
The ego must be padded afterall.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562584#Comment_3562584
The problem with this reasoning is that you can apply it to literally anything, including 'strategies' and exploits that BHVR *has* specifically targeted and removed.
AFK pig, stand-on-the-box Pinhead, double locker flashlight saves, and even the recent 'equip a flashlight to become immune in a locker' thing... All of those were, in your estimation, not just 'perfectly valid until they were removed', but somehow 'saying you don't like it in any way is toxic and shut your mouth'.
That seems like not only an overstep, but also a big enough issue that completely shuts down any discussion that would fix exploits or problematic gameplay in the future.
To be clear, I don't disagree that unless or until BHVR actually deletes something that you will eventually face it in game. That's just how players are.
But saying it's toxic to give an opinion about it is ridiculous, especially about things that BHVR has either removed, or has said flat out that it isn't intended gameplay and a solution is in the works (like 3 genning for an hour).
You've completely misunderstood or misinterpreted my point.
AFK pig, stand-on-the-box Pinhead, double locker flashlight saves, and even the recent 'equip a flashlight to become immune in a locker' thing... All of those were, in your estimation, not just 'perfectly valid until they were removed', but somehow 'saying you don't like it in any way is toxic and shut your mouth'.
I've never said pointing out things are exploitative or broken is toxic, I often point out exploitative and broken things myself... But lets look at two common examples of how people point these things out.
- This is broken and needs to be removed, here's why... mechanics, game outcome, impacts fun
- This is broken and needs to be removed and you are a scumbag for doing it. My fun is ruined you are to blame, I'm unhappy and you are scum... insert self righteous rant here and tell people how they should be playing.
You sometimes see amalgamations of these two types of complaint but not often. So which one is toxic?
When it comes to genuine toxicity, its not what happens in game that matters its how you react to it. Overacting about something as inconsequential and unimportant as a computer game and calling other players names over it is genuine toxicity.
This leads to people making arbitrary rules about what they consider "good" or "Normal" play and then expecting those rules to be rigidly followed by other players.
When other players don't follow those "rules", because lets face it they are under no obligation to, we get the inevitable attempts to shame, blame and abuse people over a game.
The only people who ever get really riled up about this when I point it out, tend to be the people who engage in option 2 over option 1.
To bring it back to topic the OP asked why they should use hooks? and there are a bunch of replies saying here's some good reasons why. But sprinkled between those good reasons why are the "play the game normally or properly/don't be scummy" posts that belie the attitudes of the people who would engage in method 2 over method 1 when giving feedback.
-
@DemonDaddy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562518#Comment_3562518
I love waiting to see how many downs they take before activating it. Props to anyone that waits until endgame.
Yeah one of the tools to combat slugging, when used well can save your butt.
I don't get bled out or slugged long enough to often get any real value out of it but if someone had a particular distaste for being slugged then maybe they should consider running it from time to time.
That's why I run lightborn a lot, you don't need it but its a nice lil low effort counter to getting blinded.
The once per trial was probably a bit too much of a nerf though. Deactivates in endgame would probably have been enough.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562496#Comment_3562496
Neither have you learned anythjng, though I refrained from bringing up that you've continued to defend toxic and abhorrent behavior by staying, "they're just roleplaying."
I have very little interest in speaking to someone like that and I see nothing to gain by doing so.
I'm not defending anyone and never have, but bleeding out is just gameplay and until BHVR come up with a mechanic that either lessens the impact or works around it its going to stay in game so expect to see it. Which has always been my take on it.
Lastly don't be toxic by hating on someone outside of game because they play in a way you don't like. Defining people's in game choices as abnormal is part of that toxicity.
Its that simple.
The same consistent point I've always made in the hope people may actually stop genuine toxicity rather than hyper-focusing on imaginary toxicity.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562400#Comment_3562400
Slugging for pressure is normal gameplay.
4 man slugging is not until bleedout is not.
?? So you want to remove bleed out so that people just lie on the ground forever? That would make 4 man slugging legit?
What you've written here doesn't make much sense as stated.
On a more serious note don't confuse your personal predefined idea of what constitutes "normal" play as some form of factual bar set for all players. We've had this discussion before, more than once, and you've still not learned anything.
-
I agree with some of this, but for me the high point of this game was still Chains of Hate, maybe just after with the Bubba rework and the removal of DS/UB god mode.
-
Jake park, Yui Kimura and Bill
Jake Because when I started I had a lot of Sabo 4 hook dailies and Jake comes with sabo built in from the get go.
Yui, well... purple haired motorcycle girl nuff said.
Bill because left for dead is great mindless fun and nothing says badass survivor like a grizzled old vet with a ciggie.
-
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562243#Comment_3562243
Clearly, slugging everyone isn't normal since BHVR spent the time and resources to develop a system specifically aimed at countering that.
Was it implemented? No, but the intent was there.
Having a tool to counter something doesn't necessarily invalidate that something as "normal" gameplay.
-
@BubbaDredge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/393940/is-there-more-than-1-minor-benefit
You like chases more than kills, you're playing wrong.
People who lay on the ground a long time aren't in chase for a long time. Typically a unhook leads to a chase, you get an unhook notification, there's two survivors, chase one.
Let the survivors play more, you'll get way more chases. Let them take chances and they will. Too oppressive makes the survivors too careful, not worth the risk of getting into a chase they can avoid.
Both you and the guy on the ground will get more BP and action if you hook. That's the one compelling reason you need, it's more fun for both of you. You don't owe it to survivors, but it's more fun, more points, more playing.
But as a killer that knows how to enjoy this game day-in and day-out, fun is the only reason. If you're playing well enough to control the trial, win in the way that gets you what you want. Efficiency doesn't matter. Toy with them.
That's why villains always explain their plans to the hero instead of just killing them, it's an empty victory if you don't savor it.
"But as a killer that knows how to enjoy this game day-in and day-out, fun is the only reason. If you're playing well enough to control the trial, win in the way that gets you what you want. Efficiency doesn't matter. Toy with them.
That's why villains always explain their plans to the hero instead of just killing them, it's an empty victory if you don't savor it."
👍️
-
The term META while used to mean strongest often translates as easiest to use or most broadly applicable. (Ease of use and broad applicability could be seen as strengths I'm not unaware of this).
Perks that get the most use are the ones that tend to do one thing simply or that can be used in multiple circumstances without much set up/downside.
I don't think the meta exists because survivor perks are generally bad its just that the "meta" is the easiest and most broadly applicable to use, so people use them.
-
If its working for you, keep doing it then.
- Hooks are a proc for some perks, they give extra BP's.
- They count for pips toward ranks which give extra BP's in the end.
- They create a focal point where you know survivors will be and they don't move away from that point.
- Unhooking is typically a riskier rescue than picking up a survivor, no noise cue etc.
- Others have already posted more in depth points about time and play efficiency.
There are plenty of reasons to use hooks, but if they don't suit your gameplay then by all means don't use em.
As a side note, ignore the posts about "playing normally" or "properly" or the idea that "all survivors hate being slugged".
These are players whom have confused their opinions and assumptions as facts, or have a limited preconceived idea of how the game should be played and expect everyone to rigidly follow it. Neither of these are good ways to approach the game.
-
@Cryptikk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562321#Comment_3562321
I actually think Knight skin is one of the free rewards for the event, along with meg iirc.
I could be wrong though
@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562339#Comment_3562339
yes i believe meg and knight skins are this years Halloween event tome rewards
Even better.
Thanks for the info.
-
@HexHerbz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562109#Comment_3562109
I've notice my survivor queue times are getting longer each night. I said this was gonna happen. We want a horror experience not a scooby doo experience.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3562325#Comment_3562325
It's al good.
Unless someone start throwing out insults/attacks (which you didn't) I don't take anything else personal around here.
I didn't want to re-open a kettle of fish here, I get where you are both coming from.
There is nothing I dislike more than when survivors as a team, every chase, just start running in circles around the nearest rock/junk/wall.
We aren't really mind gaming, using the terrain to its fullest or making interesting decisions at that point, we are playing mechanically not thematically.
Its a mechanism to sink killer time, you are gonna go down but you are gonna stay up long enough to waste time so others can complete gens sure I get it, looping works. But the hold W pallet save then attempt to rinse repeat does feel a lil Scooby Doo rather than Halloween, and perks that promote hold W tend to exacerbate this.
I think maps need more LOS blocking terrain or fog just needs to be thicker and more impactful in general. I don't know.
But if some player's motivation is to win a PVP game over playing a horror game, then you've gotta expect some "less interesting" more mechanical playstyles.
My hope would be that changes focus on the theme and thematic experience over mechanical competitiveness but that's not often the case. As the thematic aspects of the game tend to be viewed as problematic by those who play more mechanically, which is fine they often can be because of the unbalanced and asymmetric nature of the game.
That's how we get into the messy topic of are people fans of horror or not and should they be if they are playing DBD, because catering to fans who aren't here for the horror leads to more mechanical play, while catering to the horror tends to lead to more thematic but highly skewed play. The key is finding the balance between the two.
I think BHVR do an ok job of this but like all things it does tend to swing wildly.
-
I hope never.
Its been a long time and she's just as menacing as she ever was and its great.
Anyone who takes the time to get good enough with her to be a real terrifying monster, then I tip my hat to them, because she is tricky to play well. (I wish I was better with her than I am).
I'll face a brutal scary oppressive Nurse any day. I'll flee for my life and probably die trying and I'll love every minute of it.
-
I've never understood the motivation behind the I'm leaving/game is dying thread.
I get that people might want to express their discontent with changes they don't like but to make a very vague I'm leaving/game is dying thread with no real substance outside of I'm not happy/bored strikes me as odd.
Is it a need for external validation?
Is it born of modern day online narcissism?
Is it an ill-conceived attempt to invoke change via brinkmanship? i.e "If I don't get my way I'm taking my ball and going home."
I'm not having a go I'm just trying to rationalize posts like this, I mean lets face it... its not a life affirming change to stop playing a video game.
If it is for you then taking a break is a good idea because you need to stop playing games and get out and experience more.
-
I do like the pumpkin head knight.
This may even induce a cheapskate like me to shell out some funds.
-
LOL,
Like anything in game someone will find a great mechanic to get around it.
On a more serious note...
Pragmatically though for this to consistently work on more than 1-2 survivors max then you'd have to plan out your stalk and make sure you hooked and killed the player with the least stalk left to ensure you had enough to go around on the remaining players to get you back to tier 3 again.
So its not really easy mode camping game breaker like the ol bubba saw, but a great find for a laugh.
It's easily remedied by endurance blocking the tombstone prompt.
Problem is I'm sure people will use this for a nerf/change Myers excuse and really he doesn't need changing, in terms of functionality he's probably one of the best killers out there gameplay wise, given how much his addons can change things up and how threatening they can be when the right circumstances arise.
Now that I've seen it I'm gonna have to try it at least once. 🔪
-
I think that's what people don't get, they wanted a mechanic that stopped someone's entire play experience being one 30s chase and then hang on hook for 3 mins.
The mechanic is there to afford a better window of escape for saves not to delete hook defence in all its forms, the onus is still on the survivor team to rescue and escape from the killer.
But really lets face it... according to some players pretty much anything is some form of camping, you could hook someone and catch a plane to Timbuctoo and they'd still decry you for camping post game.
Its early days players will learn to play around it and we'll see what happens.
-
I think how MMR weights outcome has a lot to do with skewed perception of the game and the feeling of unfairness.
That said, for me personally I play DBD because I'm a horror fan and what I want from DBD is a horror movie experience.
When I play survivor... I want killers who play as mean/viscous/nasty and unfairly as possible. I want to feel like I have to run from the killer or I'll die... rather than sink the killers time so my team can complete the objective as mechanically as possible.
When I play killer I ask myself what would Michael Myers/Jason Voorhees/Freddy Kruger/ Leatherface do in this situation and I act accordingly.
So yeah I'm sometimes a lil bummed when survivor tools make things generally easier over killer tools because it often waters down the horror experience. I understand mechanically why these changes exists but they do make the experience less horrifying and lets face it... less horrifying is not great for a horror game.
-
@rvzrvzrvz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559630#Comment_3559630
nerfing woo is a mistake, you need too much playtime to learn map layouts in this game, like 500-1000+ hours, it's too much to ask for average players, woo is the perfect casual perk without MFT it's not that big of a deal
it's so popular because survivors have 100+ useless/niche perks
I disagree that WOO is required to learn map layouts even for a casual player. It helps you make snap decisions on chase but isn't really needed, and I should also say doesn't really need a nerf.
The best way to learn map layout is to play some killer. You have free unrestricted access to the whole map.
Requiring 1000's of hours to learn general map layout should be worrying for someone's memory retention.
-
Well to play devil's advocate, FOMO is a cornerstone of commercialization and BHVR is a commercial entity.
There is plenty of free crap in this game and plenty more that can be bought with nothing but free grindable currency.
The goal is to get players online, limited events/items get players online whom might otherwise be more complacent about getting something.
When they start doing paid for gambling crates, where you drop money for the random chance at an item, that's when you can stick a middle finger at them. I don't see that happening anytime soon though.
-
@Crowman said:
The system shouldn't be going off if the killer isn't facecamping. Patrolling around the area of the hook is not meant to give survivors a free unhook.
Ah but don't you know everything is camping in some form.
Why can't we just free unhook and auto heal ourselves? Anything less is just unfair!
To the OP people are learning to play around the mechanic, like any other mechanic in the game.
The goal is not to make you auto rescue un-camp-able, its to give you an out if face camped so can continue to actively participate.
The onus is still on your teammates to rescue effectively and for you to not get caught that second time.
-
I've played a lot of basement lockdown trapper it is possible to get a save out, more so with the built in endurance.
Definitely some maps are better than others for the set up.
What should be in everybody's mind when fleeing from a killer, especially one with a strong defensive strategy is "am I running toward the basement?" If the answer is yes you need to run elsewhere.
-
It's an odd one watching people complain about the consequences of their own actions, as if they are immune to any kind of reasonable counter play to what they do.
If you waste your endurance body blocking for your rescuer, you make yourself the most viable chase target.
To then go on and complain about tunneling after that is yet another example of the "have my cake and eat it too" entitled mentality of some players.
You see the same arguments over again and they pretty much all boil down to "I should be able to do as I please without consequence and if you don't accommodate that then you are just scummy and selfish".
-
Don't ruin him, he's one of the most fun killers in the game.
-
Hate to say it but not much can be concluded from such a tiny amount of "data"
-
@Prosecutor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550998#Comment_3550998
I mean if the person does not do gens, he is ruining the match for others, should not there be a punishment for such players?
The problem is that people will use it as a punishment for anything they deem "bad play". The concept of bad play is so subjective that survivors going around killing each other over it would defeat the purpose of having a killer player at all.
-
@Meghead56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3550322#Comment_3550322
Why on earth you play scratched mirror Myers on Shattered Square. That build only works on inside maps so you were lucky to even get 3K out of that due to bad survivors.
Well you see maps are random.
I have more scratched mirror addons than I do map offerings that play to scratched mirror's strengths so sometimes you get a bad map.
Not to be snide but If that's the part of the post that concerns you, I think you missed the point.
-
Was underwhelmed when he released.
Finally put some time into him today and boy was I wrong, he's a lot of fun.
Cutting around the edge of a loop to drop a guard and herd a survivor back into you for the down is really satisfying.
Running a guard along a known route and getting some free detection and pressure is great.
Run a line from a hooked survivor and let the guard return and pressure the savior for you while you pressure another survivor
There is a lot to unpack here and so far anyone holding W has gone down rather quickly its not the solution people think it is.
-
A fear mechanic.
The more you interact with the killer the more your fear goes up. If fear is to high there are some negative consequences, maybe inefficiency in tasks etc?
Light sources tend to lessen fear, dark areas tend to increase it, or maybe +/- the rate you gain fear, basement is a big fear inducer.
Being outside terror radius reduces it, being inside increases it, being in chase increases it faster, escaping from chase causes a massive reduction puts you in relief state making fear reduce quicker.
Looking to incentivize survivors to flee/escape and hide from killers rather than run around the same rock 6 times.
Maintain your health state, progress the objective but also manage your fear. Would make survivor so much more interesting than just sit on gen - loop- sit on gen - loop.