pseudechis
pseudechis
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591864#Comment_3591864
No, i made only an exreme example to make it more clear. And yet there is no explantion. Anyway, lets leave it to that.
The experience is not awful? Tons of people complain about that nonstop that the experience is so awful. Of course its aweful, maybe not from your pov but the majority would disagree with that.
It is never a strong argument when it starts with "people need to get over...". Because they dont. Nothing is set in stone, changes can be made. And with the amount of tunneling right now, there is a very high chance they will make changes.
It didn't really need an example, it was self defeating comparison on its own.
But here goes... Gen repair speed is a measurable mechanic that can be altered up and down, whom the kill player choses to chase is a subjective intangible. This choice is up to the player and then attenuated by decisions made by players during chase. Comparing the two directly is a flawed concept.
If people want to talk mechanics/strats to minimize the chances of early elimination then great (I gave some strats in my first reply), but that's not what's being discussed here at least not what the OP started with. It started with a healthy dose of boo hoo.
Frankly you are never gonna get an objective discussion of "tunneling" as a tactic if people can't get over the boo hoo element first. Because if players are too hung up on the boo hoo they'll never be open or able, to have an objective discussion about early elimination.
My point still stays the same as it always has, The very real threat of early elimination makes DBD exciting to play.
I'd hate to see player choice about who they can chase be removed simply because some players can't take being eliminated early in an elimination game.
Same reason I enjoy MWO, once you blow up you're gone. It forces you to play smart, try not to get caught out, be mindful of positioning. Its exciting. Its a harshly unforgiving thing... but a good thing.
Compare it to COD where people play mindlessly and just run in circles amongst the enemy spraying bullets till they die because they'll respawn and get to do it all over again, there are real no stakes, no real thrill, it kinda sucks.
People complain that the mechanics of DBD are boring. Here's your take on it from earlier "3 people have a snooze fest by sitting on gens (hopefully). No gameplay, no interaction with the killer. I hope everybody agrees on that sitting on gens is the least intersting thing in DBD."
But their solution to that is to try and suck any tangible thrill out of the game by removing the threat of early elimination. If your team mate is being targeted you have the power to get involved and try to stop it. If players choose to sit on gens as a response then tunneling isn't really the problem.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590863#Comment_3590863
I dont think at all it is a bad comparison, why would it be? You say that, but wont provide any counter to it.
Also not sure what my point has to do with "horror game"? Because it is a horror game, awful experience is justyfied? You say it with very nice words, but bottom line, it is exactly that what you discribe. At least this is how i read it.
The reality is, that we need both killer and survivor player. In fact, we need a lot more survivor player to get this thing going. If our only explanation of bad game design is that it is supposed to "feel bad" then this game is clearly taking the wrong path.
We should root for BETTER game design. Nobody with a sane mind (i hope!) would argue that tunneling one person out of the game while the others are sleeping on gen is more fun then a killer who spreads hooks across the board and everybody gets his fair share of gameplay. Right?
Its not a great example because gen just being done in 10s as you put it is an example that ignores all of the interactions that take place for someone to be tunneled out early. So its not a great comparison and when you have to go for extreme examples to make your point then you have a weak point. So lets leave that one on the floor where it belongs.
My point is the experience isn't awful.
The high stakes nature of it makes it exciting.
People just need to get over the boo hoo factor of being eliminated early.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590870#Comment_3590870
My apologies. Not reading all that. But yes it's a problem otherwise this "us vs them" mentality wouldn't be a topic for discussion for this long. Yet here we still are.
You should read it all.
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Lots of good tips here already but another is weave between obstacles if caught away from a good vault but don't try and loop around a thin structure like a tree.
A good bubba won't chase you and clip, they'll just 180 on the spot and you'll run face first into the saw.
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@TurboTOne said:
its not useless, its just hard to use and actually takes more skill now.
If you say you cant play with it, do it like everyone else and Run MFT. No thinking, just Doing. Just like with old Deadhard.
👍️
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590810#Comment_3590810
I dont get how this is hard to understand tbh. The problem of tunneling is that it is a very bad experience in general.
3 people have a snooze fest by sitting on gens (hopefully). No gameplay, no interaction with the killer. I hope everybody agrees on that sitting on gens is the least intersting thing in DBD.
1 person gets the unpleasent experience of beeing tunneled of the hook with little chance of escape and fun chases. It should be clear that a chase is not fun when you get hooked in a deadzone, beeing proxicamped and then downed before the survivor can reach any form of safety.
Then get off a gen and get in the killer's face, take some hits and help your buddy escape!
Its a team game after all. You have all the tools to counter "tunneling" at your disposal. Use them.
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590766#Comment_3590766
"Maybe dbd isnt for them". Really despise people who use that line as an excuse to go out of their way to ruin someone's experience. Yea. Lets make sure to get as many people away from this community by not having the decency to be a human being and not caring there is another person on the other side of the screen.
It has nothing to with not caring about someone else's experience or being motivated to ruin someone else's experience. The kind of mindset that thinks like this... is the real problem.
Its entirely possible to tunnel, camp, slug, blind, BM, stun, bleed out etc. and be competitively as "mean" as possible in a game and still be a completely amicable thoughtful caring likeable person in real life.
That's why these things are called games they are parody's of life not life itself. The inability of players to separate their game experience from a real world experience is what leads to a lot of toxicity. Your concept that gameplay is somehow linked to human decency is a great example of this.
There is an old table top gaming saying "if you are gonna dice rage, you shouldn't play games with dice." and its very true.
So we have a bunch of people who dice rage... does that mean we ban dice from a game? No that would be silly.
Remember in something as trivial as a game its not what happens to you that matters its how you react to it. If you react poorly to established game elements then maybe that game isn't for you.
There are plenty of online games where you can't be eliminated early or even at all and you just respawn endlessly and winners are calculated by score tally at game end. But then there are games where you can be taken out, sometimes early, sometimes harshly.
Should all games be one or the other or should players recognize when they find one style unfun and look for an alternative?
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590766#Comment_3590766
There is a fundamental problem with your statement. Just because it is gameplay does not mean it is good gameplay. Imagine gens would be done in (an extreme example) 10 seconds. That would also be gameplay. Horrible experience for both sides and completly unfair. But gameplay nevertheless.
Tunneling does not get punished enough. So yes, i would argue that it is a broken mechanic. Tunneling is just way to easy and rewarding for the killer while also the most frustrating and boring experience for the other side, at least for the majority of people. Its a big flaw in this game in literaly any possible way.
Again a fair point. But in this case the gen example is kind of apples and oranges.
Killer is the antagonist they are in game for the full run no matter what happens. That's why it 1v4.
As survivor you aren't guaranteed to be in game for the duration that's part of the game. The whole concept of survivor is to avoid elimination whether that elimination comes early or late or not at all is a caveat of DBD.
We can quibble over whether we think this is good or bad, but its a fundamental part of the survival horror element of the game. I'd say one of the best elements of it.
Why does DBD elicit the over the top response from people that it does, sometimes moreso than other games? I think its because there is this underlying threat of just being taken out and that visceral kind of game experience can generate an equally visceral response from players.
Personally I think that's amazing and spot on for the horror genre that DBD sits in.
The mechanics of DBD are pretty simplistic and anytime BHVR attenuate the threat of elimination it becomes a lil more bland to play, especially as survivor.
A big part of this is queue times - a game that has a 10 min wait for a 2min game is probably gonna frustrate a few people but I still don't think that is enough of a reason to undermine the survival horror nature of the experience.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590740#Comment_3590740
Thanks for your post. A good one. I do have to add a few important things.
What some people dont realise somehow is how big of a problem this already is. Maybe not for everyone, but in my games at least there is a very high chance (way above 50%) someone gets tunneling right from the beginning. I am not saying that this is unwinable with a good team (i am glad you and your SWF dont care!) but in Solo where coordination is bad and gens wont fly like in your SWF game, its just super frustrating. Not all the games are lost and when the killer for some reason picks me, i can usually give the killer a good chase and buy a lot of time. The chance of that is unfortunatly only about ~25%.
Your ideas are fine and i am sure a new players will take note, but those dont imply to tunneling in those games i am in for a very simple reason: Even a semi-experienced player will hook the survivor in a deadzone and proxicamp. Tunneling off the hook is almost a guaranteed down. Random players dont understand the concept of pathing and create deadzones within 30 seconds of the game. Every killer including myself knows this.
Defending tunneling in my opinion in the slightest is like defending other broken mechanics like old DS or BNP. It wont contribute anything to the goal of getting a better game, rather make it even worse.
You raise fair point. But ask yourself why is it frustrating? Its just gameplay. If people find gameplay elements frustrating maybe DBD isn't for them. A game that involves an early elimination is still mechanically identical to a game of DBD where there isn't an early elimination.
Is it the perception of increased difficulty, the thought they won't earn as many BP's (A completely free and infinite currency that is passively earned simply by playing). A hyperfocus on game outcome over gameplay?
We aren't talking about a broken mechanic here, we are talking about the killers ability to choose whom to chase. The mechanics of a chase are the same whether you are being "tunneled" or not. The onus is on the team to make good saves and take hits. The onus is on the survivor to escape chase "tunneled" or otherwise.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590364#Comment_3590364
Again, you misunderstood.
Gen rush is literally survivors doing nothing but gens. They don't care about teammates, bring the strongest toolboxes and sit on gens with designated Gen perks.
This is not what I meant.
What I meant is that fast gens is generally seen as a "skill issue" of the killer. They should play better. Which to some extend is correct. But that doesn't mean that the killer enjoys these types of matches. One person definitely has no fun here.
Tunneling a survivor out is much more frowned upon because 4 people get to have less fun in a game. Also understandable due to one person having very little time in a match if they are not exceptional in looping. If it's a Nurse, Blight, Wesker, Spirit or Pyramid head it's even worse.
This is what I meant.
Survivors fun > Killers fun.
This mindset is so common because of there are 4 survivors vs one killer. Therefore if the survivors are unhappy, 4 people have no fun in comparison to the one person having no fun if the killers match is too fast.
In my opinion, the community should stand up and acknowledge that both sides fun should be seen equally. Just because there are 4 people doesn't mean that it's OK for the one to have no fun on the expense of the 4.
"In my opinion, the community should stand up and acknowledge that both sides fun should be seen equally. Just because there are 4 people doesn't mean that it's OK for the one to have no fun on the expense of the 4."
Just one note I want to address here, is that in an elimination game the threat of elimination can be part of the fun. Its survival horror the point could be made that the higher the stakes for survival the higher the fun. If there wasn't that level of potential threat then DBD would completely fail to emulate the slasher films its based on.
That visceral and final element of the game should be celebrated not lamented even if it happens early because it is that intrinsic threat that makes DBD exciting to play. If people find that threat unfun I'd rather they played something else than try and ruin what DBD is.
Just imagine DBD if there was no elimination or no threat of early elimination and perhaps even if you just kept respawning and wins were based on endgame score not eliminations. It would be the blandest experience imaginable.
Yet the concept of fun is often touted as driving for that very bland kind of experience. Which I think kind of misses the point of DBD.
@Xyvielia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/397662/tunnelling-is-a-joke
I agree, tunneling is a joke when abused to being taken out of the context of “strategic tunneling”
Posting anything like this here on these forums will immediately warrant the attention of the same group who will reply to your topic, and I can name them all for you, and almost verbatim what they’ll have to say, and even the order in which they’ll appear to retort (jk about the order they’ll appear😉), but it isn’t necessary, as they’ll absolutely be showing up to say the same things they’ve said to the last post that gave off a negative vibe on Tunneling, overall.
Unless they’re finally as over replying to everything as I’ve grown to be, in which case I’ll just say…
I commend you for taking a stance on Tunneling, but remember, or if you didn’t know in the first place, be aware, that not all Tunneling is evil.
I'd hate to say it but this isn't some important social justice moment. No one is taking a stance against anything here, its just the usual BS of someone whining about getting eliminated early in an elimination game.
Last time I checked whining about a game wasn't really a thing worthy of commendation. Is the bar for accolades really that low these days.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590209#Comment_3590209
The OP never said doubted that nore said anything like that?
To your offtopic arguement: Yes, killing the survivor is the killers role. Tunneling is a choice. To put it mildly, a very unpleasent choice for everyone else.
Don't lump everyone into an assumption.
I don't get triggered or grumpy over being tunneled and neither do any of the players I SWF with. (One of the reasons why I SWF with them they don't go auto blaming tunneling and camping for any kind of game outcome).
Its just part of the game and the killer may go for an early elimination or not.
Things to learn to avoid being eliminated early.
- Don't get found first, play less overtly and more stealthy at game start till the killer is occupied elsewhere then slam a gen. If you run everywhere all the time you are gonna get found early.
- Run with a plan, layouts aren't that complex and tend to be pretty similar across most maps, there is usually a better way to loop most structures... learn it.
- Build to counter the mechanics that you struggle against. Are you good at gens but get caught in chase then take chase and info perks, are you good at chase but miss skill checks on gens then take gen perks, do you dislike being slugged take anti slug perks. You can build to try and counter most things.
- Realize that early elimination, like many games, is just part of the game. It could happen to you accept that fact. The very threat of elimination and non-participation is what makes games of DBD so intense. Without it the game would be very bland indeed, learn to love that aspect of the survival horror. The game's excitement level depends on it.
- Lastly someone eliminating you early isn't some personal slight or attack on your fun, its just gameplay don't go spilling a bad gaming attitude into the real world and abusing other players over a game.
These 5 simple points can make any game of DBD fun when playing survivor, even if targeted and eliminated early.
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I don't really hunt for achievements.
But Evil Incarnate it was nice to see that one pop up after a rather satisfying game.
I think its more the joy of getting all the moris over the achievement though.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590715#Comment_3590715
Dude, the visual terror radius is toggleable that does NOT count.
fair point doesn't make it look any less crap when active though.
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I miss the old animations too plus the immersive UI.
Subtle at the bottom of the screen, gritty and minimalist.
No silly portraits, no see through beating heart breaking the immersion, no futuristic looking hook counter that looks like a shield meter from a star wars game.
The old UI and animations looked great. The new UI is cluttered and ugly, some changes aren't for the better.
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Hmm how many arbitrary rules based on nothing but personal opinion can we cook up today?
Use the crosshair if you like, there is nothing wrong with it.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589445#Comment_3589445
I can subjectively say that almost no killer I run into chases good survivors first. Smart move if all you care about is winning. I don't think it makes you good at the game though. I have not been successfully tunneled in my last 100 solo queue games because killers will usually drop chase with me when they realize I won't go down quickly. 90% of tunneling I encounter in my games is an experienced killer bullying a less experienced survivor. Usually the lowest hour count player. It doesn't mean you have no skill but it does mean you are taking the path of least resistance. The majority of killers I run into who tunnel at five gens are very mediocre in chase based on my interaction with them. They win solely because there is one survivor who is significantly worse than the other three. If you can't win consistently without having a bad survivor to tunnel out then are you really any good at the game? Probably not.
Sure and I’m not gonna say that your experience is in anyway invalid, it’s your own experience after all.
However… just as being able to effectively pressure 4x survivors is an example of skill… so is being able to quickly identify a weak link and exploit it for advantage.
A player may be stronger in one tactic than the other but that doesn’t necessarily make them “unskilled”. I’ve seen plenty of players who pressure gens pretty effectively but also make poor choices chase wise and often end up on the back foot in the long run.
Remember after a game you only have that single experience on which to base your assessment of another player and as Nietzsche says “even the strongest among us will have moments of fatigue.”
While some players love the statement “if you tunnel you have no skill”, I would argue that if you know whom to tunnel to maximize advantage then you are applying game knowledge and decision making, and those combined are what defines skill.
Does it matter if someone “goes for the win” or not? Playing to win is a completely valid motivation to play.
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I've never understood the tunnel = no skill argument, as to tunnel out a person you apply the same skills you would to catch any other survivor.
Do the mechanics of being chased magically change when chased a second time off hook? No.
To avoid early elimination try these simple tactics.
Don't get found, don't get caught, make smart unhooks.
Play less overtly/more cautiously at game start. Don't get found first
Put some time into map layouts and run with a plan. The goal is to escape from chase by losing the killer or sinking enough time that they drop chase.
Last one is on your teammates, so there is less you can do about it... but Make safe unhooks, the number of players who rush the hook before you even take 3 steps away and then cry foul for "tunneling" when the most logical target to chase is the injured one who's on second stage.
Demanding the killer not make advantageous decisions is just kinda silly. No one is asking survivors to only focus on one gen at a time please, that would be just as silly.
If you can remove a weak link early and pressure the players in 3v1 instead of 4v1 then its very advantageous to do so. You should expect it to happen and take the necessary steps to try and avoid it. That's DBD.
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Hey that's half the fun.
Should I be selfish and just escape or should I be altruistic and try to help? That decision is part of the gameplay.
I mean if people get upset over a game, nothing you do will fix that kind of negative mindset. That's a player problem not a game problem.
You'll often find that the people who get upset about games tend to be so no matter what happens in game. Because they are looking for reasons to be upset rather than just enjoying the game and all the challenges that come with it.
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What you have listed here is gameplay not toxicity.
The onus is on you the survivor to play around strong killer builds and good tactics, just as the onus is on the killer to play around strong survivor builds and good team coordination.
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I get where you are coming from.
But you may want to consider that it isn't a gameplay issue.
Killer is generally in a stronger place than they've been for a while not all would agree with me and there are some things that still kinda suck. Yeah there are some ups and downs but generally things have gotten better for both sides.
Smaller maps, cleaner loops, removal of some broken survivor perk combos. While survivors have reduced non-participation, more in built tools to ensure longer time in game if targeted etc. I'm not a fan of all changes but you can't deny that at least mechanically, they are generally good things overall. (Though some a kinda ######### thematically)
I'm afraid the feeling of lack of reward could be you are just done with DBD as killer for the time being.
I mean regardless of how things change mechanically, while its still up to the developer to provide a fun and engaging experience, its also up to the player to find the fun.
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I don't think there is too much that is genuinely unfair in this game.
Usually its a combination of things that result in exploitative or near unwinnable scenarios - like ol AFK pig. They tend to get patched out.
But for the most part things have a counter if you apply yourself and when something feels kinda biased in one direction it often fits thematically, not always but mostly.
About the only thing that is game breakingly unfair would be external comms.
Sadly a lot of gameplay gets attenuated by communicating in real time.
It also affords a level of coordination that the game doesn't really buffer well against. Attempts to buffer against it often result in highly skewed effects that overly punish players whom aren't using external comms.
So either they make rulesets on the basis that everyone coordinates as if they are on external comms, which doesn't really work... or we accept that occasionally you are going to get games were external comms break the game and you just need to bite the bullet and move on from it.
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Interesting idea.
I would hazard against the concept of fair play in this case though.
Because essentially if you are playing within the game's rules, then you are playing fairly.
The concept of "fair play" as defined by a large portion of this community is actually "sub-optimal play".
In order to be "fair", as defined by the DBD community, then your opponent often has to meet a rigid set of additional arbitrary rules that often run counter to their in-game objective.
The concept of fairness here has warped into the idea that opponents have to make bad decisions that benefit others in order to be fair, which is actually a highly unfair attitude to have. (Oh the irony!)
How is the concept of "You need to attenuate your behaviour beyond the game rules in order to accommodate my game preferences" in any way fair thinking?
Its very amusing to watch people bang on about what's "fair", while in the same sentence demanding their opponent's play to a disadvantage in the name of fairness.
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I don't see how anyone describes him as annoying, its been so long since chases were you couldn't either see the killer over the obstacle or through the obstacle.
The fact he's some tiny doll that keeps you on your toes is great.
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They die like any other survivor dies, so yeah I don't mind em.
Sometimes it can be fun to just log into a custom and kill a bunch of fleeing bots.
As for the live game they are a bit of a mixed bag when replacing a player. I play a lot of jumpscare Myers so the bots can be tedious, not hard just tedious.
As for survivor I don't expect them to do anything except progress some gens while not fleeing and they do that well enough.
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Players mashing buttons can't hurt anyone, as killer you have a big knife chase them out the gate and move on.
Secondly camping and tunneling have nothing to do with playing nice/fair. They are just tools in the killer arsenal of gameplay and you are free to use them if you need/want.
The cycle of toxicity doesn't break till all the giant babies stop using game mechanics as an excuse to be grumpy at each other over a game.
That is all.
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Sweet, the chucky films border on ridiculous but hey another iconic slasher joining the roster is always welcome.
Good to see a lil adult language in the trailer too does this mean DBD is becoming a game for grown ups again.
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Enjoy it anyway.
Don't let other people's bad take on things ruin your fun.
(and by bad take I mean their inability to keep their complaints constructively aimed at the game mechanics and not at other players).
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What a great evening of gaming that was.
Every game someone played a Hawkins map offering. So much jump scare Myers and gen killer Doc fun.
I've missed the Hawkins map so much.
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3578322#Comment_3578322
I am known outside of the forum so yeah...
Aren't we all.
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3578279#Comment_3578279
800+ know who I am so you can't say no one knows me about 5k+ also know me. Sometimes you get people who can catch on to things and there are people like you. You should know by now killer mains are all about mind games so, gg.
Those numbers are meaningless its an online forum, trust me nobody who matters really knows or cares who you are, its all fake. But its all in good fun so it doesn't matter. gg.
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Chains of hate, that was a high point.
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3578148#Comment_3578148
How could you not catch on? lol I am a Freddy main I literally have Freddy in my name! my god this is easy. All I had to do was take things Survivors say and combine it with facts.
Nobody knows who you are, your tag is meaningless in this instance and the poor satire... satire as it may be, is still drivel.
But its the internet... sometimes you get witty discourse sometimes you get drivel. 🤷
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That's great, the return of content is a good thing.
I'm looking forward to stalking the hallways of Hawkins lab again.
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3578067#Comment_3578067
Look at everything you said and ask yourself: Has this not been the DBD communities mentality for the past 7 years? Look at Freddy from 2017 all the way to this very day. Was this not why Freddy got nerfed? And Pig? and Hillbilly? and Alien? And the perk nerfs? and unhook nerfs? and just about all the other nerfs? Was it not so bad players can stand a chance? Has this community not blamed everything and everyone else for failure and wanting the game to change to accommodate them as they see fit? Like a warm blanket from reality? Who do the devs mostly side with? Killer? or Survivor? And now you want to say this to me for saying it like it is? I know these might be hard facts for people to accept but this is the reality of the situation.
You're confusing you assumptions, hyperbole and personal biases as facts.
Its very clear you haven't thought this through at all.
I still stand by my first assessment of the main point as what you've written here hasn't built on it or justified it in anyway.
Either it's satire or drivel, I was hoping for satire but I guess it's just drivel.
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@DBDFreddyK said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3577993#Comment_3577993
In my replies to everyone where have I told one lie? It may look funny, but the only joke at this point is a killer main thinking this game is about balance.
I'm not a killer main but you assume what you like if it helps validate your point.
"We clearly need more buffs so good killers can lose to bad survivors." You did read this before you posted it right?
Basically you want to change the game for bad players rather than expect bad players to improve themselves.
It must be great to go through life with no sense of personal growth or responsibility, just blaming everything and everyone else for failure and wanting the world to change to accommodate you as you see fit. Like a warm blanket from reality.
Either that or satire. I stand by my assessment.
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@OrangeBear said:
Wow, those looks amazing, you must be very skilled at that.
Just a stencil and a small saw is all you need.
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This is satire right?
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
"play with the intention of ruining the game experience of the opposite side" - assumed motivation, not fact.
Yup. It was ruined for me. And As a player in this game, IDC what his reason was. This is factual. You're defending his ability to do these things that ruin it for 1-4 other players. Not fair as you are trying to make it out to be.
"It's probably simply the only way they can get kills." Assumed skill level, not fact.
Even if it is, it still ruins it for the other 4. How is this positive for anyone but the killer?
Maybe they chose to play defensively after a long string of chase heavy games... not a fact, but just as probable as any other opinion given here and far less negatively judgmental of the opponent.
I agree. This is a good assumption to have. If we assume it is true, they still played that way, and still ruined it for 1-4 players. This is getting pretty positive!
Maybe they felt outplayed by good survivors and switched up to a defensive game instead... not a fact but again just as probable and far less negative.
I can only write the same reply so many times.
I see what you're trying to do, and it is quite positive. But you're an angel trying to pass out pamphlets in the 4th layer of hell. It probably won't do much, but God speed! I mean no disrespect with any of this, its just my perspective. < 3
Yeah no worries, no disrespect intended. You have a valid perspective, OP didn't think it was a good game and said why. Just wanted to broaden the point a lil so that its critiquing the game and less so the players.
Sorry that game was ruined for you but its kinda just one of those things, and yeah the motivation doesn't matter not unless you're a player who wants to moralistically attack other players outside of game because of perceived slights.
I'm not implying you are one of theses people but I can already see the one's who are starting to comment and it always muddies the water and ruins what could be genuinely thoughtful discussion of game mechanics.
I'm no angel believe me but its only the 4th layer of hell because its full of people who treat it as such and now they are angry at the consequences of their own actions.
Honestly I'd rather play against 100 camping/tunneling killers who didn't take it too seriously over even 1 game against the collection of highly triggered; incapable of separating the game from the real world; behaviour police; that are frequently spewing bile at each other over a game.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575423#Comment_3575423
This is sadly factual. From my experience anyway with being on these forums and in game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3575760#Comment_3575760
I need to know nothing about that player. My interaction with them in my life is through that match. Why do I need to know things about them other than they camp, play boringly, and it sucks to play with them? I have all the info I need.
You don't have to know anything extra, but lets look at some of the conclusions being made here on the basis of that singular shallow and, lets face it, rather meaningless interaction.
"play with the intention of ruining the game experience of the opposite side" - assumed motivation, not fact.
"It's probably simply the only way they can get kills." Assumed skill level, not fact.
Even you have made some finality to your opinions based on one "boring" game.
So lets flip all the negativity on its head and make some positive counter assumptions.
Maybe they chose to play defensively after a long string of chase heavy games... not a fact, but just as probable as any other opinion given here and far less negatively judgmental of the opponent.
Maybe they felt outplayed by good survivors and switched up to a defensive game instead... not a fact but again just as probable and far less negative.
So by all means bemoan a bad or boring game as you put it, sometimes you are gonna get bad games nothing wrong with saying so.
But know when to draw the line at critiquing a game outcome and engaging in unsubstantiated assumptions that often lead to players attacking each other outside of the game.
Remember with something as inconsequential as a computer game its not what happens to you that matters but how you react to it.
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@Xernoton said:
It was never meant to end camping. It wasn't even meant to make to make it impossible to down the unhooker immediately as far as I know.
It does a good job of disincentivising the killer to stay right next to the hook to try and prevent unhooks. The hooked survivor will get off the hook as long as their team mates don't ignore them, which is exactly the point.
This is what a portion of players don't seem to grasp.
It affords players a greater chance to get off the hook and potentially get away that is all.
Thus reducing the game experience of get downed in 30 secs, hang on hook for 2 mins and nothing else.
Now players have a better chance to get off hook, engage in a follow up chase and try to escape the killer and you get that for free if they stand too close.
Calling it anti-camp was really a misnomer, as some players seem to think they can never be camped again and appear genuinely surprised that a killer can still defend a hook if they do it smart.
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Before you accept any of the rather poor opinions being dressed up as facts here.
Ask yourself... What do you know about this player outside of the one game you played with them?
The answer is nothing, so lets not jump to conclusions based on largely nothing. (We humans love to do that but it's generally bad)
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For the current Halloween event you can farm up a lot of Blood Points in 4 mins.
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Its really not toxic to want to win even if the scenario requires bleeding players out to do it.
The goal to stopping toxicity is to realize that no matter what happens in game that's where the interaction stops.
It's that simple.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/394982/tunneling
Alright, so lets do some math here.
- Match starts and the killer has Lethal and picks a survivor and decides to hard tunnel them immediately.
- Survivors often spawn on the opposite end of the map as the killer and generally somewhat spread out to take at least 1-2 gens immediately with the 3rd taking a few seconds.
- Average map size is 100x100 square meters, so in order to cross the other end of the map, assuming killer spawns around 16 meters into the map, and objectives spawn around 16 meters into the map, it will take the killer 14.8 seconds to reach the survivors.
- Around 32 meters in the survivors should start hearing the terror radius and should be able to start reacting to them
- Let's assume you have terrible reaction time, and don't start running away for about 3 seconds, meaning the killer is now 22.2 meters away from you.
- Lets assume you are really bad at the game, and don't use any pallets or windows, but just shift +w away
- The killer gains 0.6 meters of distance and needs to get within 3.61 meters to do a lunge at max range.
- It takes the killer 30.9 seconds to hit you.
- You get as peed boost, giving you a distance of 14.4 meters.
- The killer takes 18 seconds to catch up and hit you again
- The killer is in hit animation for 2.7 seconds
- The killer picks you up for 3 second animation
- The killer walks to a hook taking ~10 seconds
- The killer hooks you taking 1.5 seconds for animation
Now, you have been hooked 1 time, and the total match time as been:
14.8 + 30.9 + 18 + 2.7 + 3 + 10 + 1.5 = 80.9 seconds.
Even if the killer stood right on the hook, and you used AFC to unhook yourself, and let the killer hit you twice without moving, and then hooking you again. It would still take another:
7 + 15 + 2.7 + 2.7 + 3 + 1.5 = 31.9 seconds per hook.
How exactly are you "getting tunneled out in 2 minutes with 5 gens remaining? What are you doing to go down so fast? What is your team doing such that after 2 minutes of the killer completely ignoring them they haven't completed at least 3 generators?
Hyperbole is a shield against reason.
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@XshyguyX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3570576#Comment_3570576
There's a difference between "it's not going my way" and "this games a bust" playing solo. Sometimes that's just how it plays out. And DOH to save several minutes for a bust match in my opinion is fine.
However there's a fine lone between the two.
Well if you liberally define what a bust game is then you can rationalize quitting all the time. So easy why queue at all?
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Thematic weather effects would be a great addition.
I'd like to see a swamp thing kind of killer or maybe some old diving suit killer that comes with an old lighthouse and pier coastal map set in a lightening storm.
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They're not a must just tactical tools in the killer arsenal.
Apply them when needed. That's all.
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Why entertain the Kate's opinion of how you play in the first place, what exactly qualifies them to make assessments of it? Nothing.
Play how you feel, play as you like, play within the rules as defined by BHVR.
Everything else is white noise.
As the ol saying goes, "Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep".
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Well if people can rationalize that one minute of game time makes no difference to the team then I'm sure they can also accept that the same minute of game time makes lil difference to their overall experience, so why not stay in game for as long as possible.
You might get saved and then get a lucky out but you never know if you never try and the quitter mentality is strong with some of the replies here.
I wouldn't call it toxic but there is something kinda lame about the "Its not going my way I quit" mentality.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3569978#Comment_3569978
Probably is the end so we just want to throw a few personal views on the points.
A: True that self policing doesn't always work, but as before, it's the only tool we as players really have. If the option doesn't hurt us and makes the things Abit better, we'll use it more often than not. We're a surprisingly optimistic pesemist.
We agree we don't have the right to force ppl to play a certain way (though some seem hellbent to and the devs are curbing certain ways for good or ill) but there's that old saying "eye for a eye makes the world blind". If no one tries then eventually we think everyone in this fog will be blind.
B: All options are not valid, but there are some worth testing. We mostly see people dismissing things outright without wanting to try, which we feel is more of a waste of potential "what if".
C: This is an off track comment from us but we'd like to remind the fog of all the ones that quit for flimsy reasons such as they don't like the killer, they got down under 30 seconds, etc.
At the point, yes beginners are expected to loose but depending on how harsh and often (aka they were repeatedly slaughtered without knowing what or how it happened) is Abit much to us. A good chunk of the responsibility for knowing is on the players but when they can't effectively and practically practice that knowledge becomes frustrating, atleast to us.
We're going to side step the twilight zone paragraph as what we have to say about that and currently society will make us look....bad? Odder? Don't want to touch that with slinger's harpoon.
Have fun mate
Actually an eye for an eye leaves one person left with one eye. Who then rules the world because they are the only one left who can see.